Age Old Question - Website using my photo without permission. What now?

Stupid_Private

I just went onto a website for a new race in Ireland (a 100% commercial venture) and immediately noticed that it was one of my race photos that is used on their homepage. They even went to the effort of photoshopping out my simple watermark in the bottom right rather than cropping it out of the photo.

I've taken a screenshot of the page. What is there to prevent them from changing the picture and then denying that they ever had it there? There's nothing to prove that my screen shot isn't doctored!

Do I just send them an invoice to the email address on their site? I've searched and that's the only details they have for contacting.

The next question is how much you can charge for use of your picture on a website?

Thanks

hbr

Stupid_Private wrote: »

I just went onto a website for a new race in Ireland (a 100% commercial venture) and immediately noticed that it was one of my race photos that is used on their homepage. They even went to the effort of photoshopping out my simple watermark in the bottom right rather than cropping it out of the photo.

Before you accuse anyone of theft. Make damn sure it is your photo and
not one that is almost identical. I wouldn't have made this comment a
couple of weeks ago. Since then, I found one of 'my photos' on a website.
Closer analysis showed that it was almost identical to one of mine, but
it was in fact taken by someone else. Happily, I spotted the difference
before I started yelling at someone.

Once you are sure it is yours, contact the website and let them know
it is covered by copyright.

I've taken a screenshot of the page. What is there to prevent them from changing the picture and then denying that they ever had it there? There's nothing to prove that my screen shot isn't doctored!

There is no absolute proof where digital photos are concerned. If they
have a low resolution web photo, and you have the original high res
photo from your camera, you have a strong case. There will by some
evidence in the EXIF info, but that can be stripped out or altered quite
easily.

Do I just send them an invoice to the email address on their site? I've searched and that's the only details they have for contacting.

Where is the web site physically located? It will be subject to the copyright
laws of the country it is in. This is a key point, and it can be a bit of a
minefield.

The next question is how much you can charge for use of your picture on a website?

As it is your photo, you can charge as much or as little as you like.

zerohamster

I dont know if this will help but go onto wolfram alpha and you can find where the website is based, Ive used boards.ie as an example (I think it finds the server location)

As is mentioned already, make sure it is your picture for definite.

also try saving the web page by going to "file" and then "save page as" (using firefox but IE soul be similar as are other browsers).
This Im sure would be much better evidence instead of just a screen capture as they could be edited easily.
Do you have the RAW file if you were shooting in RAW as this would be substantial enough to prove you are the owner of the shot as they would not be able to claim that you stole the photo from them.

I hope this helps

Stupid_Private

hbr wrote: »

Before you accuse anyone of theft. Make damn sure it is your photo and
not one that is almost identical.

It's definitely mine, I'm totally sure of that.

hbr wrote: »

If they have a low resolution web photo, and you have the original high res
photo from your camera, you have a strong case. There will by some
evidence in the EXIF info, but that can be stripped out or altered quite
easily.

What I meant here was, what if they just remove the photo from their site and deny having ever had it there?

hbr wrote: »

Where is the web site physically located?

Just checked and it's in Ireland

zerohamster

As I said in my post, save the web site using the method I mentioned. This will save a copy of the page you are on and is much more credible then just a screen capture. Its as close as you will get to evidence other then somehow going to the Gardaí and asking them to write some form of official witnessing statement that the picture was on the website although that wouldnt prove its yours...just that the picture in question was on the website and that they witnessed it being there.
I would advise saving that page though aswel and make hard copies of the page to show the Gardaí plus your original photo and website.

The Gardaí might not be able to do as I mentioned but its worth a shot if you think that they might change the website.

Regards

charybdis

zerohamster wrote: »

As I said in my post, save the web site using the method I mentioned. This will save a copy of the page you are on and is much more credible then just a screen capture. Its as close as you will get to evidence other then somehow going to the Gardaí and asking them to write some form of official witnessing statement that the picture was on the website although that wouldnt prove its yours...just that the picture in question was on the website and that they witnessed it being there.
I would advise saving that page though aswel and make hard copies of the page to show the Gardaí plus your original photo and website.

The Gardaí might not be able to do as I mentioned but its worth a shot if you think that they might change the website.

Regards

At worst this is a civil case, I don't think the police will appreciate being bothered with it.

Stupid_Private wrote: »

What I meant here was, what if they just remove the photo from their site and deny having ever had it there?

This mightn't be an ideal result, but would it really be that bad?

I suggest you contact them and let them know that you know that they're infringing upon your copyright. You can ask for payment or you can ask to have it removed, but if they refuse and you want to continue, you should probably speak to a lawyer or intellectual property expert with a view to filing suit against them for infringement upon your intellectual property.

joeKel73

zerohamster wrote: »

As I said in my post, save the web site using the method I mentioned. This will save a copy of the page you are on and is much more credible then just a screen capture. Its as close as you will get to evidence other then somehow going to the Gardaí and asking them to write some form of official witnessing statement that the picture was on the website although that wouldnt prove its yours...just that the picture in question was on the website and that they witnessed it being there.
I would advise saving that page though aswel and make hard copies of the page to show the Gardaí plus your original photo and website.

The Gardaí might not be able to do as I mentioned but its worth a shot if you think that they might change the website.

Regards

Saving the webpage is meaningless, the saved website can be edited simply using notepad. And it will also just save the image as the image file in a folder, which could be easily replaced or edited.

Getting the gardai to "witness" the image being there before contacting the site owner might actually work, but don't know if the Gardai would be that interested in helping out.

Check if the website http://www.archive.org/ has saved a copy of the website. They crawl over the web saving websites on a regular basis to form an archive of the internet. If the site is in their archive that'd be very useful too.

Effects

zerohamster wrote: »

Its as close as you will get to evidence other then somehow going to the Gardaí and asking them to write some form of official witnessing statement that the picture was on the website although that wouldnt prove its yours...just that the picture in question was on the website and that they witnessed it being there.
The Gardaí might not be able to do as I mentioned but its worth a shot if you think that they might change the website.
Regards

Just make sure you go to the stolen internet picture section, I think they operate out of Store St. but they have expanded lately so might be in other stations now. Call 999 and get them to put you through.

Paulw

I've seen the pix. They haven't even bothered to crop out the very simple watermark, and all the exif is still in the images.

Contact them (and their web design company) and ask where to send your invoice to.

People shouldn't be allowed to get away with this.

Stupid_Private

Thanks for the replies.

I'm going to do as Paulw suggested. Getting in touch with gardai / lawyers seems like more effort than I'd be willing to put in for what amounts to a couple of euro.

Kintarō Hattori

Effects wrote: »

Just make sure you go to the stolen internet picture section, I think they operate out of Store St. but they have expanded lately so might be in other stations now. Call 999 and get them to put you through.

I don't think the folks taking the 999 call would appreciate that. A better bet might be to call Store Street directly.

hbr

Stupid_Private wrote: »

It's definitely mine, I'm totally sure of that.

I thought it would be, but in view of my own recent experience, I had to ask.

What I meant here was, what if they just remove the photo from their site and deny having ever had it there?

Then the ball would be in your court literally. I suspect the Gardai would
do a Fr Jack and mutter "that would be a civil matthar". If you couldn't
get payment for your image, you could pursue them through the courts
or get a collection agency to invoice them.

Just checked and it's in Ireland

The least you can do is name and shame the thieves website
and get them to remove your image.

Paulw

hbr wrote: »

The least you can do is name and shame the thieves website
and get them to remove your image.

No, you don't want them to just remove the picts, you want them to pay for usage of the images.

mathepac

Effects wrote: »

... Call 999 and get them to put you through.

+1. I tried and in fairness to the Guards, this is how it works ...

<999>

Welcome to your new Automated Response Self-service Emergency Selector, or A.R.S.E.S for short, please select from the following options :

Press 1 for the Ambulance Service
Press 2 for the Fire Service
Press 3 for the Gardai
Press 4 for NAMA

>

Welcome to your new Voice Activated Garda Intelligence Network Assistant or, V.A.G.I.N.A. for short, please select from the following options :

Say "1" for Headline Crime Reporting (Dissing members of the Force by failing to pay your rent on time, slagging the way they say words like prroo-ceeding, vee-hickle, etc)
Say "2" to record new places where Members can get in for free and eat and drink for nothing
Say "3" to report suspected stolen pictures appearing on a web-site
Say "4" to report fashion crime to Gok Wan
Say "5" to report a murder
Say "6" to request funding from the IMF to help provide services other than those listed above
Say "Say What" to repeat these options.

"3"

Thank you. Your call is important to us. All our operatives are out to lunch / dinner / breakfast / all three right now, but your call will be queued and answered in strict rotation. You are currently call number 28,942 in the queue. While you are waiting, please relax and listen while the Garda Band entertains you ....

hbr

Paulw wrote: »

No, you don't want them to just remove the picts, you want them to pay for usage of the images.

I agree, if he can get them to pay up.

charybdis

hbr wrote: »

Then the ball would be in your court literally.

Literally?

mathepac wrote: »

+1. I tried and in fairness to the Guards, this is how it works ...

<999>

Welcome to your new Automated Response Self-service Emergency Selector, or A.R.S.E.S for short, please select from the following options :

Press 1 for the Ambulance Service
Press 2 for the Fire Service
Press 3 for the Gardai
Press 4 for NAMA

>

Welcome to your new Voice Activated Garda Intelligence Network Assistant or, V.A.G.I.N.A. for short, please select from the following options :

Say "1" for Headline Crime Reporting (Dissing members of the Force by failing to pay your rent on time, slagging the way they say words like prroo-ceeding, vee-hickle, etc)
Say "2" to record new places where Members can get in for free and eat and drink for nothing
Say "3" to report suspected stolen pictures appearing on a web-site
Say "4" to report fashion crime to Gok Wan
Say "5" to report a murder
Say "6" to request funding from the IMF to help provide services other than those listed above
Say "Say What" to repeat these options.

"3"

Thank you. Your call is important to us. All our operatives are out to lunch / dinner / breakfast / all three right now, but your call will be queued and answered in strict rotation. You are currently call number 28,942 in the queue. While you are waiting, please relax and listen while the Garda Band entertains you ....

You have selected: regicide. If you know the name of the king or queen being murdered, press one ...

zerohamster

foto joe wrote: »

Saving the webpage is meaningless, the saved website can be edited simply using notepad. And it will also just save the image as the image file in a folder, which could be easily replaced or edited.

Thats true, screencap isnt much good either unfortunately as its pretty easy for a photographer of all people to edit a screen cap
That archive.org sounds like a credible source. Im sure it wouldnt hurt to be as prepared as possible with all the 'proof' you can get to make it easy for whoever is reviewing your situation to know you are the victim here.

Effects wrote: »

Just make sure you go to the stolen internet picture section, I think they operate out of Store St. but they have expanded lately so might be in other stations now. Call 999 and get them to put you through.

Does this section actually exist? (forgive me if this was a joke at my expense but I cant find any information on it)

DaireQuinlan

charybdis wrote: »

Literally?

.

Paulw

zerohamster wrote: »

Does this section actually exist? (forgive me if this was a joke at my expense but I cant find any information on it)

I think you missed the sarcasm. No, it doesn't exist.

hbr

charybdis wrote: »

Literally?

Your local courthouse.

Simplicius

Hope you get your money ....

but if they refuse to pay up myself and Humberklog have a new boardsie debt collection agency for such occasions. of course we charge 50% of what we collect.:)

We can talk about extra measures if you are really annoyed?
As Humberklog is expert in the following in no particular logical sequnce:;)

information extraction.
variable voltage devices.
Steel clothes pegs (for some reason! )

(Although he has great style, he uses 1930's steel darkroom clips to amazing effect, no ordinary steel clips for this artist)

He's just told me too he is a shaolin monk ... kinda like crouching photog - hidden ninja

Hope this helps

zerohamster

Paulw wrote: »

I think you missed the sarcasm. No, it doesn't exist.

I didnt miss it, I got the sarchastic vibe. I just didnt want to presume that it was a jab
I was just trying to help and what I said is worth trying so that an authoritative figure could put their name to the fact that the website was displaying the said image etc... even if there was no actual involvement of the Gardaí in the matter.
My guess is they would tell him to bugger off as it wasnt their problem but its worth a try.

PCPhoto

have dropped you a fairly lengthy PM

short version... invoice them (registered mail) ...keep a copy of the invoice yourself and make sure to include conditions:

- please make payment within 10 working days (this gives them 2 full weeks to pay)

- failure to make payment will result in legal action and late fees (25%....or ...50% per week or something like that) for non payment.

usually if they don't pay within 2 weeks a new invoice with a solicitors cover letter opens their eyes to the situation they are in.

its important to let them know what the late fee will be....so they were initially told of the consequences of non payment

AnCatDubh

Stupid_Private wrote: »

The next question is how much you can charge for use of your picture on a website?

Paulw wrote: »

No, you don't want them to just remove the picts, you want them to pay for usage of the images.

Getty images (UK). Unauthorised usage. Low Res Web Usage. €450 plus VAT. Pay now or legal action ensues. End of story.

Wait..., i'm not responsible/don't own/a web designer did it/we have deleted the image/the image was found on the internet/we didn't know/it was in a template which we paid for/or I want my maaammmmmyyyyyy...... they don't care.

The above is fact. I was asked to advise about it somewhere very recently.

Out of the blue, the contact came through Getty Licence Compliance Team. Included was a copy of the image from their stock and a screen grab of the offending web page with the image embedded, an invoice, a description of why none of the above excuses work, and the legal entity detail (from the web record).

But, but, but...... :rolleyes:

Paulw

AnCatDubh wrote: »

Getty images (UK). Unauthorised usage. Low Res Web Usage. €450 plus VAT. Pay now or legal action ensues. End of story.

Getty have the lawyers behind them (and the money) to back it all up and make sure they get paid.

AnCatDubh

Should also say be prepared to potentially be met with their legal reps. Don't think you are onto an immediate €450 lump sum. In the case referred to, it wasn't a simple matter of the demand being acceded to. In fact the issue caused much confusion in the organisation in question which meant legal advice was the default course of action. And there was a circumstance arising from the confusion under which Getty desisted further action.

charybdis

AnCatDubh wrote: »

Getty images (UK). Unauthorised usage. Low Res Web Usage. €450 plus VAT. Pay now or legal action ensues. End of story.

Wait..., i'm not responsible/don't own/a web designer did it/we have deleted the image/the image was found on the internet/we didn't know/it was in a template which we paid for/or I want my maaammmmmyyyyyy...... they don't care.

The above is fact. I was asked to advise about it somewhere very recently.

Out of the blue, the contact came through Getty Licence Compliance Team. Included was a copy of the image from their stock and a screen grab of the offending web page with the image embedded, an invoice, a description of why none of the above excuses work, and the legal entity detail (from the web record).

But, but, but...... :rolleyes:

Do you have a copy of the boilerplate Getty use for this kind of situation? If possible, I'd be interesting in having a look at it.

PCPhoto

Paulw wrote: »

Getty have the lawyers behind them (and the money) to back it all up and make sure they get paid.

not something to worry about in this case - have PM'd saying will provide legal service (will pay for the solicitor - if needs be)

AnCatDubh

charybdis wrote: »

Do you have a copy of the boilerplate Getty use for this kind of situation? If possible, I'd be interesting in having a look at it.

no bother, should be able to get my hands on it tomorrow. pm me an email address and i'll send it on.

Chorcai

This is an Irish site ? go to IEDR:



The IE WHOIS service is used to find information about all domain names ending in .ie. It displays the information that the IEDR hold about domain names that are currently registered including:

• Domain name
• Registrant name
• Class of registration
• Category of registration
• Admin contact name
• Technical contact name
• Renewal date
• Status
• Name servers

Registrants of domain names are obliged to provide us with accurate details under the terms and conditions of registration. This service can be accessed through the IEDR website or alternatively a WHOIS query can be made using the normal whois protocol, which issues a query to port 43 on whois.domainregistry.ie.

Paulw

Chorcai wrote: »

This is an Irish site ? go to IEDR:

It's a .com address, but whois will still work using any of the whois engines.

Chorcai

Paulw wrote: »

It's a .com address, but whois will still work using any of the whois engines.

Fair enough I thought it was an irish site with .ie.