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Cost of ICF House

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  • 01-07-2010 2:09pm
    #1
    galhalmur
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4 ✭


    Hi all
    Just to point out I’m a self builder and have no ties to any ICF provider or builder

    I have been looking around at the cost of ICF materials form a new 2500 sq foot house in cork. My house is a 1 1/2 L shaped house
    I’m have been quoted 15K plus vat for dead work, first and second floor.
    In total it is 320 sq meters excluding openings.
    I’m also looking at a ICF roof panel which works out at 10 K plus vat for 238 sqm

    is this good bad or indifferent or are there better options/prices out there
    Also does anyone know what is the going price for a builder (labour only) to erect this about of material

    thanks
    Tagged:


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    #2
    Leadership
    Closed Accounts Posts: 457 ✭✭Leadership


    Sounds like I just built the same house as yours:
    http://grianan.blogspot.com/

    We got a contractor for the complete build but ICF was €12k extra to block for a reward system.

    I will PM the lads contact details to you as they did a great job, no blowouts or bulges and very efficent.


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    #3
    Information Seeker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 40 ✭Information Seeker


    Leadership wrote: »
    Sounds like I just built the same house as yours:
    http://grianan.blogspot.com/

    We got a contractor for the complete build but ICF was €12k extra to block for a reward system.

    I will PM the lads contact details to you as they did a great job, no blowouts or bulges and very efficent.

    very nice blog.

    ICF, unless you get an experienced contractor has the potential to be buildability nightmare.


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    #4
    KingPuck
    Registered Users Posts: 63 ✭✭KingPuck


    Hi Galhalmur

    I am pricing an ICF system for my own dormer bungalow, approx 4,000 sq ft including garage which is attached. We are at dead work stage at the moment and I had intended building block but am seriously considering ICF after seeing a few being built recently.

    I got a price for an ICF roof which I was going to build in top of the block external walls. For this I was quoted €2,000 + vat for 290 sq m of roof. This was supply only. I can PM the suppliers details if you want. I am still waiting to hear back about a price for a complete ICF structure.

    I suppose what I am trying to do is get the cost of building the external walls inc insulation and roof (without latts and felt and slates as this has to be done with ICF anyway) and see how if compares to block. I had planned on pumping a 6" cavity, sand cement coat on the inside, then sticking an insulated slab and then skimming it.

    Regarding the roof I was going to spray foam 8" of foam between the rafters. The foam alone was coming in at approx 6K. The rafters would also have to be deeper to take that depth of insulation.

    Who did you get prices from? PM if you can.


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    #5
    KingPuck
    Registered Users Posts: 63 ✭✭KingPuck


    Apologies, just spotted a typo. That €2,000 in my last post should have been 12.


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    #6
    manufan16
    Registered Users Posts: 250 ✭✭manufan16


    Leadership wrote: »
    Sounds like I just built the same house as yours:
    http://grianan.blogspot.com/

    We got a contractor for the complete build but ICF was €12k extra to block for a reward system.

    I will PM the lads contact details to you as they did a great job, no blowouts or bulges and very efficent.

    Hi Leadership ,

    Would you mind to also pm me your ICF builders contact details?
    I made a post a few days ago requesting any contact details anybody has on experienced ICF builders but got zero pm's/responses.

    thanks


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    #7
    Lisap
    Registered Users Posts: 17 ✭Lisap


    Hi All,We are in the middle of constructing an ICF house in Dublin using the KORE ICF system. If you need our builders details PM me, I would highly recommend them and they are very competitive.CheersLP


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    #8
    Viking House
    Registered Users Posts: 551 ✭✭✭Viking House


    How much insulation is in the ICF systems being used? Is there more insulation outside the concrete than inside? What type of foundations are being used?


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    #9
    galwaytt
    Registered Users Posts: 12,776 ✭✭✭✭galwaytt


    ...having a neighbour build one last year, I'd pay a lot of attention to how you're going to roof it, materials-wise. Roof would appear to be a 'hole' in the programme, as they say.

    Ode To The Motorist

    “And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, generates funds to the exchequer. You don't want to acknowledge that as truth because, deep down in places you don't talk about at the Green Party, you want me on that road, you need me on that road. We use words like freedom, enjoyment, sport and community. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent instilling those values in our families and loved ones. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the tax revenue and the very freedom to spend it that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise I suggest you pick up a bus pass and get the ********* ********* off the road” 



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    #10
    beyondpassive
    Registered Users Posts: 558 ✭✭✭beyondpassive


    Its worth noting that ICF houses do not necessarily equate to energy efficient houses. Sure they are more efficient and comfortable than the standard irish build specification. The rising walls, suspended floors, wallplates and window reveals are huge cold bridges. The insulation on the inside contributes nothing to energy efficiency and has a detrimental effect on thermal storage and damping. Sure any ejit who ever had a lego set can build an ICF frame in a couple of days but the best option is to keep your insulation all to the outside and use external insulation or wide cavity.


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    #11
    galwaytt
    Registered Users Posts: 12,776 ✭✭✭✭galwaytt


    beyondpassive wrote: »
    Its worth noting that ICF houses do not necessarily equate to energy efficient houses. Sure they are more efficient and comfortable than the standard irish build specification. The rising walls, suspended floors, wallplates and window reveals are huge cold bridges. The insulation on the inside contributes nothing to energy efficiency and has a detrimental effect on thermal storage and damping. Sure any ejit who ever had a lego set can build an ICF frame in a couple of days but the best option is to keep your insulation all to the outside and use external insulation or wide cavity.

    .....as you say, I thought the details for reveals, adjoining roofs-to-gables (sunroom's/porch etc), bay windows, and the suspended floor/wall plate junction left a lot to be desired.

    Ode To The Motorist

    “And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, generates funds to the exchequer. You don't want to acknowledge that as truth because, deep down in places you don't talk about at the Green Party, you want me on that road, you need me on that road. We use words like freedom, enjoyment, sport and community. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent instilling those values in our families and loved ones. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the tax revenue and the very freedom to spend it that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise I suggest you pick up a bus pass and get the ********* ********* off the road” 



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    #12
    marcusg18181
    Registered Users Posts: 7 ✭marcusg18181


    Hi

    What heating system is generally used in an icf build. Generally radiators r heat recovery or both?!

    Anyone who has already done it on here?
    Good or bad?


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    #13
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 31,118 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    galwaytt wrote: »
    .....as you say, I thought the details for reveals, adjoining roofs-to-gables (sunroom's/porch etc), bay windows, and the suspended floor/wall plate junction left a lot to be desired.

    It just needs a little thought during construction to eliminate all the cold bridges, as always the devil is in the detail.

    For example, build the rising walls with ICF as well elimates the floor cold bridge, use timber frame fixings for the windows and sit the frame within the ICF eliminates that cold bridge.


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    #14
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 31,118 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    marcusg18181 wrote: »
    Hi

    What heating system is generally used in an icf build. Generally radiators r heat recovery or both?!

    Anyone who has already done it on here?
    Good or bad?

    I have underfloor heating and heat recovery, both work well and would recommend using them, try to build a warm roof, it stops the heat recovery pipes losing too much heat.

    see the self build link below.


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    #15
    heinbloed
    Registered Users Posts: 1,632 ✭✭✭heinbloed


    Marcusg 18181 asks:

    What heating system is generally used in an icf build. Generally radiators r heat recovery or both?!

    Your designer (architect?) has to work out the heat load. This is legally demanded. No heat load calculation - no planning permission.Get this signed.
    If he/she is incompetent shop somewhere else.
    The heat load will determine what type of heating can be used. Certainly NOT the material used in the structure.


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    #16
    galwaytt
    Registered Users Posts: 12,776 ✭✭✭✭galwaytt


    Deleted User wrote: »
    It just needs a little thought during construction to eliminate all the cold bridges, as always the devil is in the detail.

    For example, build the rising walls with ICF as well elimates the floor cold bridge, use timber frame fixings for the windows and sit the frame within the ICF eliminates that cold bridge.

    but that's my observation: sitting the windows 'in' the ICF - where, exactly. What concerned me is how to effectively DPC them - the front door, porch and bay window's in the example I looked at had me wondering: where is the lead flashing going, and what's it fixed to,and how is the render over it's top edge. If it's only a 2mm skim on a mesh, then...........
    Deleted User wrote: »
    ....try to build a warm roof, it stops the heat recovery pipes losing too much heat.

    ...indeed I would go further - we should all move to warm roof construction, full-stop. All those people with frozen pipes and tanks, and maybe bursts/leaks/damage when the thaw came, as well as the insurance companies, would thank us !

    Here's some warm-roof on ICF pics. A cold roof on ICF would be, imho, a complete waste of time.

    Ode To The Motorist

    “And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, generates funds to the exchequer. You don't want to acknowledge that as truth because, deep down in places you don't talk about at the Green Party, you want me on that road, you need me on that road. We use words like freedom, enjoyment, sport and community. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent instilling those values in our families and loved ones. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the tax revenue and the very freedom to spend it that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise I suggest you pick up a bus pass and get the ********* ********* off the road” 



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    #17
    manufan16
    Registered Users Posts: 250 ✭✭manufan16


    I currently have my ICF build out to tender and I was wondering what exactly is the 'warm roof' and how does it differ from normal roof?
    Being a dormer bungalow does that have any bearing on whether I can use a warm roof method or not taking pitch etc into consideration?

    I have attached a picture of my roof spec - all opinions appreciated!
    http://i1082.photobucket.com/albums/j365/manufan1611/Roofspec.jpg

    p.s. exp ICF builders/contractors wanting to quote on my build please send me a PM


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    #18
    galwaytt
    Registered Users Posts: 12,776 ✭✭✭✭galwaytt


    manufan16 wrote: »
    I currently have my ICF build out to tender and I was wondering what exactly is the 'warm roof' and how does it differ from normal roof?
    Being a dormer bungalow does that have any bearing on whether I can use a warm roof method or not taking pitch etc into consideration?

    I have attached a picture of my roof spec - all opinions appreciated!
    http://i1082.photobucket.com/albums/j365/manufan1611/Roofspec.jpg

    p.s. exp ICF builders/contractors wanting to quote on my build please send me a PM

    That's a cold roof.

    The simple way to identify it is that the if the roof has a 50mm ventilation cavity under the felt, over the (infill) insulation, then it's a cold roof. It means the roof is not sealed to the building, and you have a boundary layer of cold air passing over your insulation. Cooling it nicely, in fact.

    With 150mm deep rafter, and 50 vent, it means you have only 130mm of roof insulation. You will also have to undertake a specific airtightness programme of membrane's and taping. I would not describe that as a high performance roof, and it's performance is site subjective.

    A warm roof as in the pics I posted is a solid roof that has no ventilation requirement, and is actually sealed to the building. As you can imagine, it will not only be warm, it will be substantially ahead of 'std' roof construction in terms of airtightness, but also bridging, and ultimately performance. It is also a much quieter roof as well - important, in a dormer situation.

    Cold roof construction is the std method of roofing for.......I dunno, 100's of years ?

    Ode To The Motorist

    “And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, generates funds to the exchequer. You don't want to acknowledge that as truth because, deep down in places you don't talk about at the Green Party, you want me on that road, you need me on that road. We use words like freedom, enjoyment, sport and community. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent instilling those values in our families and loved ones. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the tax revenue and the very freedom to spend it that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise I suggest you pick up a bus pass and get the ********* ********* off the road” 



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    #19
    Seany1981
    Registered Users Posts: 13 ✭Seany1981


    Hi Doanbarker. You seem to be well up on the ICF. Have you used it and do you have any negative feedback on it? I am considering using it for my own house in Clare next year. It seems a good option for a self build once allt he details have been ironed out.


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    #20
    BE_MIEI
    Closed Accounts Posts: 37 ✭BE_MIEI


    Steer well clear of ICF, in my experience its nothing but trouble.


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    #21
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 31,118 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    BE_MIEI wrote: »
    Steer well clear of ICF, in my experience its nothing but trouble.

    What problems have you had?


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    #22
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 31,118 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Seany1981 wrote: »
    Hi Doanbarker. You seem to be well up on the ICF. Have you used it and do you have any negative feedback on it? I am considering using it for my own house in Clare next year. It seems a good option for a self build once allt he details have been ironed out.

    Hi Seany1981, Yes I did build the house using ICF, and so far after nearly seven years have had no issues at all. The house is easy to heat virtually no external sounds get in and looks just like any other type of house.

    When building, you need to consider the fact that the standard methods of fixing doors & windows need to be slightly modified to make the most of avoiding cold bridges, something that I have found was successful except for the back door that the children are always slamming shut, it vibrates a bit in the frame!

    Would I use it again? yes, but would have used the higher spec insulation that is now available.


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    #23
    Hannspree
    Registered Users Posts: 1 ✭Hannspree


    Very interested in building an ICF type build, we are located in the Thurles area anybody that has any contact details for builders using the method please pm me. Thank you


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    #24
    manufan16
    Registered Users Posts: 250 ✭✭manufan16


    you would be better asking your ICF supplier for recommended installers who can stand over their work


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