The Michael Martin/Uganda Aid Scandal

bleg

BehindTheScenes wrote: »

Fifty-one percent of the population of the country lives slightly below the international poverty line of US $1.25 a day

Infant mortality Ireland= 3 per 1000 live births (2008 figure world bank)
Infant mortality Uganda= 84.5 per 1000 live births (2008 figure world bank)

Under 5 years of age mortality rate Ireland= 3.7 per 1000 (2008 figure world bank)
Under 5 years of age mortality rate Uganda= 134.9 per 1000 (2008 figure world bank)

Average life expectancy Ireland= 78 years of age (world health organisation)
Average life expectancy Uganda=49 years of age (world health organisation)

Now can you seriously say that people aren't dying earlier than they should be. True the population is growing but only due to the high amount of births.

The solution is simple. Stop having babies you can't afford. If the African people followed this simple rule they would have no ****ing problem. Until then I am completely against any aid to 3rd world countries. At current levels all it does is help them continue their miserable subsistence existence.

BehindTheScenes

Count Dooku wrote: »

Should we send Joe Higgins instead of 160 millions?
It will be long term investment :rolleyes:

Make fun of it but countries that are well run think long term. Well done by the way turn a good discussion in to a 'who makes the stupidest comment contest'. Absolutely puerile.

bleg wrote: »

The solution is simple. Stop having babies you can't afford. If the African people followed this simple rule they would have no ****ing problem. Until then I am completely against any aid to 3rd world countries. At current levels all it does is help them continue their miserable subsistence existence.

Yeah infant mortality is high because they have to many babies :rolleyes:. Do you understand how to read and interpret a set of statistics? That is a serious question by the way.

BehindTheScenes

Lu Tze wrote: »

I know that stopping the aid will only affect the poor. But how many people more people in the long run might benefit from a regime change? That isn't likely to happen if we are doing the governments work for them in the country

That's a fair comment that I accept. Third world uprisings are unlikely and seldom succeed, mainly due to western intervention.

RichardAnd

bleg wrote: »

The solution is simple. Stop having babies you can't afford. If the African people followed this simple rule they would have no ****ing problem. Until then I am completely against any aid to 3rd world countries. At current levels all it does is help them continue their miserable subsistence existence.

The reason the birthrate is so high over there is because parents see their children as an insurance policy. They have ten kids, 5 survive and those five can look after the parents when they're gone.

Whilst your post will probably result in you being berated for voicing what many people probably believe, I do agree with your point. If a baby is saved in the third world, that child is spared only to live a horrid existence. Aid given to the third world should be going to stem birth rates not to ensure an ever increasing number of people survive to live off ever diminishing resources.

Lu Tze

BehindTheScenes wrote: »

Yeah infant mortality is high because they have to many babies :rolleyes:. Do you understand how to read and interpret a set of statistics? That is a serious question by the way.

BehindTheScenes wrote: »

Infant mortality Uganda= 84.5 per 1000 live births (2008 figure world bank)

Under 5 years of age mortality rate Uganda= 134.9 per 1000 (2008 figure world bank)

Average life expectancy Uganda=49 years of age (world health organisation)

Do you? You didnt link to the figures. Does the life expectancy rate include those that die during childhood? This is something that has skewed the figures before, as it has oft been repeated that irelands life expectancy has changed enormously in the last 100 years, however if you take out infant/childhood mortality those that actually survived, the average life expectancy hasn't increased much at all (circa 3-4 year AFAIK)

BehindTheScenes wrote: »

That's a fair comment that I accept. Third world uprisings are unlikely and seldom succeed, mainly due to western intervention.

We are just allowing the existing scenario to perpetuate.

blue_steel

BehindTheScenes wrote: »

That's a fair comment that I accept. Third world uprisings are unlikely and seldom succeed, mainly due to western intervention.

Agreed. It's in the interests of richer nations to keep Africa poor. In a lot of cases all it takes for them to get their mits on the untapped natural resources of a country is a fleet of cars for the President. The fact that western nations are now buying up cheap arable land in Africa is the final insult.
What always annoyed me about Geldolf and his ilk is that they shied away from saying this to a western audience. Pressing the flesh with Sarcozy and Prince Charles when their countries caused the problems in the first place and they should feel a moral responsibility to help anyway. G8 could solve world hunger overnight, charity never will. At least Goal address the politics of countries they operate in unlike the Bono brigade.

Finnbar01

Anita Blow wrote: »

Jesus..people think that just because they've taken a pay cut that all of a sudden they're much worse off than families in Africa? Even on the dole, people here have a much higher quality of life here than there. And not to mention the baseless accusations that the Irish government would just hand over X Million Euro and not have checks in place to make sure it's spent well. A lot of the money is given to charities working over there, like Trocaire who have centres set up there.

Honestly it's threads like this that make me realise the damage done by the Celtic Tiger. Even during the 80s, when people were dirt poor, Ireland managed to be the biggest donater per capita during Live Aid. And now, as a first world, developed country, we can't even spare not that much in terms of our overall budget just because we're in a recession. Ugh

Giving money to african countries only leads to more corruption in government, so over the medium and long term the people suffer, greater than any positive effect the aid may have giving in the first place.

Also during the 80's we gave our own money as we saw fit. Martin has no right to give our money when he sees fit.

Count Dooku

BehindTheScenes wrote: »

Make fun of it but countries that are well run think long term. Well done by the way turn a good discussion in to a 'who makes the stupidest comment contest'. Absolutely puerile.

I didn’t know how to enter competition in hypocrisy good discussion
I understand anger of people, who found good niche for their business, where nobody has moral right to refuse give them money, but only long term thinking is missing
What poor Ugandans will do if Irish economy will collapse one day?
Will it cost more human lives then if Uganda didn’t receive any aid?
They don’t want to think that uncontrolled growth of population in one stage will make impossible to survive and it will drive country into another civil war

But entrepreneurs from charity don’t care about future, they care only about present, how to pay they mortgages and buy decent cars

TheRealPONeil

Cork boy 55 wrote: »

Hi

can we point out that.....

can we point out that this guys account was registered in 01/07/2010
so instead of engaging in the exchange of the usual expletives...,
well just ignore the troll and any possible headline for the indo/herald/ etc etc for next week and say good night cork boy.

Head The Wall

TheRealPONeil wrote: »

can we point out that this guys account was registered in 01/07/2010
so instead of engaging in the exchange of the usual expletives...,
well just ignore the troll and any possible headline for the indo/herald/ etc etc for next week and say good night cork boy.

What has that got to do with anything. He's not telling lies or anything so I don't see the problem, whats your agenda? this is a discussion forum you know

Cannibal Ox

Did anyone pointed out that the announcement was a cut in aid? I didn't see it, but, €166 million, over four years, is less per year then the current €44 million per year we were giving.

WalterMitty

I think the west has a moral obligation to help those suffering in the poorest countries even if its their own leaders that do most of harm to them. The west grew rich on the back of Africa for centuries even using this continent as a source of free slave labour.
We are talking about helping the poorest on the planet. I beleive that the whole of humanity owns the earth and its resources not just the rich white countries who have managed to gain legal control of vast majprity of it. Anyway building htese countries up to higher standard creates more markets for companies here in ireland to sell into.
The standard of life on dole here is heaven to most citizens of these countries.

Count Dooku

WalterMitty wrote: »

I think the west has a moral obligation to help those suffering in the poorest countries even if its their own leaders that do most of harm to them.

i.e. do everything to keep bloody africans dictator in power

WalterMitty

Count Dooku wrote: »

i.e. do everything to keep bloody africans dictator in power

No, just ensure the aid is distributed by reputable , efficient and effective NGOs.

Count Dooku

WalterMitty wrote: »

No, just ensure the aid is distributed by reputable , efficient and effective NGOs.

Reputable, efficient and effective NGOs cannot work in corrupted countries without obvious bribes or other form of support of corrupted politicians/militant group leaders.
It means that those NGO’s are directly supporting corruption in Africa and don’t have any interest to change present situation, because it provides infinite work for NGO staff on expense of suffering African people

WalterMitty

Count Dooku wrote: »

Reputable, efficient and effective NGOs cannot work in corrupted countries without obvious bribes or other form of support of corrupted politicians/militant group leaders.
It means that those NGO’s are directly supporting corruption in Africa and don’t have any interest to change present situation, because it provides infinite work for NGO staff on expense of suffering African people

In likes of Uganda no bribes need to be paid. YOur exxagerating. If area is unsafe /requires bribes most reputable NGOs wont work there and will wait till UN goes in(as imperfect as UN is)

Count Dooku

WalterMitty wrote: »

In likes of Uganda no bribes need to be paid. YOur exxagerating.

Why everybody see corruption in Uganda, only NGO’s don’t see it all?
Does it men that NGO’s are also part of foreign aid scam?

On March 4th, the World Bank country manager’s for Uganda said the country could lose its funding due to widespread corruption in the government. The program’s spokesperson Steven Shalita said this was due to a series of major corruption scandals in which senior offenders did not face prosecution.
Country manager Kundhavi Kadiresan cited the $100 million each year estimated to be loss in shady procurement deals, and about $27 million stolen during the Commonwealth Summit. ”Corruption in Uganda is endemic, and we have seen no sign of improvement,” Kadiresan said, according to reporting by the Daily Monitor.

http://ugandansabroad.org/2010/03/05/donors-threaten-to-slash-foreign-aid-over-corruption/

The international aid lobby claims that increased foreign aid will help to solve Africa’s problems. But, as the case of Uganda shows, foreign aid can exacerbate those problems. Foreign aid, Andrew Mwenda writes in a recent Cato study, has provided the Ugandan government with an independent source of revenue that has allowed it to remain unaccountable to Uganda's citizens. Moreover, aid has enabled the government to pay its bills without having to undertake further necessary economic reforms. The government has wasted much of the aid money on military equipment and political patronage. To promote democracy and accountability, the West should discontinue future aid flows to Uganda.

http://www.cato.org/event.php?eventid=3263

WalterMitty

Count Dooku wrote: »

Why everybody see corruption in Uganda, only NGO’s don’t see it all?
Does it men that NGO’s are also part of foreign aid scam?




http://ugandansabroad.org/2010/03/05/donors-threaten-to-slash-foreign-aid-over-corruption/


http://www.cato.org/event.php?eventid=3263

im not aware of any bribes being paid by reputable NGOs in africa . Im not advocating giving money to dodgy governments . Even in a corrupt country NGOs can operate without paying bribes.

Count Dooku

WalterMitty wrote: »

im not aware of any bribes being paid by reputable NGOs in africa .

I also wasn’t aware few years ago about bribes paid to FF politicians, but it doesn’t mean that Galway tent didn’t exists

WalterMitty wrote: »

Im not advocating giving money to dodgy governments .

So why Michael Martin went to Uganda and promised money directly to corrupted Ugandan government without telling anything to Irish people?

WalterMitty wrote: »

Even in a corrupt country NGOs can operate without paying bribes.

How, if corrupted bureaucrats will not allow to do anything without bribe?
It doesn’t make much sense for reputable NGO’s to tell everybody that they are paying bribes, because they will have to withdraw their business. And it doesn’t make any sense for corrupted bureaucrats to tell they are receiving bribes, because they will lose their income.

the_dark_side

saw this today... wonder is Tullows dealings in Uganda in anyway connected with Michael Martins aid package?

http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/tullow-completes-135bn-uganda-purchase-2273920.html

ART6

I find it interesting thatin threads here in Boards about the Irish economy and what to do about it there are many suggestions that the welfare system has to be cut back, and savagely. Meanwhile we fuss over the fate of Ugandans if we don't give then €160 millions.

The national argument seems to be that if we reduce welfare ruthlessly people on welfare will be forced to find work -- sort out their own problems in other words. Why doesn't that apply to Ugandans and all the other sponger states who can't manage their own affairs? (yes, including us).

I am all for international aid in times of crisis like volcanos and tsunamis, but not to the African states for running costs (and pockets). Minister Martin, in my view, is simply lording it on the international stage. The Bringer of Manna from Heaven -- except that it isn't his manna.

yermanoffthetv

Haha lovely lets splosh the dosh on a country who chooses to prioratise the purchase of some shiney new jets over the majority of the population who earn $300 or less a year.Yeeeah:rolleyes:
I know Ireland has a comparitively low prioraty on defence but our defence budget can only afford to fly around in 6 of these:


Uganda, begging bowl in hand they go out and buy the same amount of these:


Kinda says it all really. I mean for gods sake could they not have bought something cheaper and maybe, ya know, spent the money on education or health or.....ANYTHING that might benifit the population?

Lloyd Xmas

What is happening in Africa at all?
There are billions of dollars pumped into that continent every year and very little if anything seems to be happening.
Corruption is absolutely rampant throughout police forces and governments, and its the corrupt who are siphoning off a fair bit of this cash for their own benefit.

One thing I can't for the life of me understand, is why on earth the issue of rapidly expanding populations in African countries isn't dealt with.
In a continent with huge problems already, and swallowing vast amounts of aid, surely we must be looking at curtailing population growth any further until a handle can be got on the situation at present.

I don't agree at all with Michael Martins donation however as we all know, countries are obliged to stump up.

On a final note, its high time the UN actually made some tough calls instead of "ongoing discussions" with the most unreasonable of people who have no interest in anything good, other than to drag silly games on for indefinate periods.

Take Aung San Suu Kyi for example - The messing thats going on there.
A crack team should be sent in in such circumstances and the perpatrator of whatever evil is being dished out should be picked up quietly and disposed off. This would make these f*ckers think twice about acting up.

It sounds drastic I know, but to let one, or a group of individuals go about murdering, raping, burning peoples homes etc...? Its not right.
Mugabe would be a fine candidate to set the ball rolling with these measures.

recedite

the_dark_side wrote: »

saw this today... wonder is Tullows dealings in Uganda in anyway connected with Michael Martins aid package?

http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/tullow-completes-135bn-uganda-purchase-2273920.html

That's like saying BP's oil interests in Libya had something to do with the British govt. putting pressure on the Scots to release the Lockerbie bomber.

recedite

Lloyd Xmas wrote: »

Take Aung San Suu Kyi for example - The messing thats going on there.
A crack team should be sent in in such circumstances and the perpatrator of whatever evil is being dished out should be picked up quietly and disposed off. This would make these f*ckers think twice about acting up.

It sounds drastic I know, but to let one, or a group of individuals go about murdering, raping, burning peoples homes etc...? Its not right.
Mugabe would be a fine candidate to set the ball rolling with these measures.

If we (the free/ democratic/ western countries) tried to assassinate their leaders, then they might legitimately try to assassinate ours. That's why one must send in ground troops for regime change, or else ignore the situation altogether.

After all, to kill one man makes you a murderer, but killing a million makes you a conqueror.

blue_steel

recedite wrote: »

If we (the free/ democratic/ western countries) tried to assassinate their leaders, then they might legitimately try to assassinate ours.

If only they would.

Lloyd Xmas

recedite wrote: »

If we (the free/ democratic/ western countries) tried to assassinate their leaders, then they might legitimately try to assassinate ours. That's why one must send in ground troops for regime change, or else ignore the situation altogether.

After all, to kill one man makes you a murderer, but killing a million makes you a conqueror.

Fair point - Assasinating people was probably a bit hasty on my part, however I firmly believe that the UN or similiar should have the necessary powers to remove such people at the drop of a hat.
There's far too much BS going on - I mean, how can Robert Mugabe still be at the helm in Zimbabwe, albeit sharing it with another corrupt crook, Tsvangirai.

I remember the horror stories on Newstalk during the last elections and it was horrendous by the sounds of things. Limbs hacked off with machetes, people getting burned alive... unbelievable stuff.
I just cannot for the life of me see how such atrocities can be allowed to happen, when quite often, a swift disappearance job of the troublemaker coupled with the installation of a interim force to stabalise the area would go a long way to sorting things out.

Then again, a quick listen to Noam Chomsky, and one soon realises the real reasons for the all too often lathargic responses around the world.

recedite

Lloyd Xmas wrote: »

a swift disappearance job of the troublemaker coupled with the installation of a interim force to stabalise the area would go a long way to sorting things out.

Now you see why they all like to have a few kickass planes parked nearby.

the_dark_side

I noticed this thread disappearing and I saw a similar discussion on Politics.ie,

http://www.politics.ie/foreign-affairs/135015-fianna-fail-tullow-oil-uganda.html

Seeing as Ireland's aid package to Pakistan is a meager 750,000.. I thought that this episode may be of interest to people who haven't been made aware of it

Cork boy 55

The story is entering the mainstream media Kevin Myres column in the indo
Bear in mind RTE did not even cover the AID package to Uganda

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/columnists/kevin-myers/kevin-myers-ugandas-longserving-president-is-building-one-of-africas-best-air-forces-were-helping-him-pay-2322878.html

All good men everywhere are no doubt celebrating the news that the Ugandan President Yoweri Museveni is planning to run for office again, which, if completed, should bring his tenure as head of state to around 30 years or so.
To be sure, he is somewhat more responsive to the democratic process than dear old Fidel Castro; but still -- 30 years. By the end of which, he apparently intends to have one of the best air forces in Africa. And the really good thing is that the Irish taxpayer will have helped him buy it. You didn't know that, did you?
Now I'm aware -- from bitter experience, mark you -- that there is no area of government in which civil servants are more hoity-toity and morally supercilious than are the aid officials in the Department of Foreign Affairs. I suspect that the department runs special classes in writing letters- for-publication dripping in sanctimonious condescension, and in delivering patronising knowing looks over the canapes at departmental receptions. Believe me, a mere columnist almost takes his professional life in his hands suggesting that somehow our money on foreign aid is being ill-spent or even wasted.
Ah well, here goes. As Museveni embarks on his next term in office, how it is possible that we are giving his regime about €44m a year, even as he is buying seven Sukhoi 30 fighters from Russia? This is one of the most advanced combat aircraft in the world, capable of flying at Mach 2, (twice the speed of sound) and its two Saturn turbofans probably generate more energy than Kampala uses in a week.
The Sukhoi has a 4.5-hour combat endurance, and a range of 3,000km. This will enable its pilots to see people starving at home and in Rwanda, Tanzania, Kenya and the Congo. Better still, with an in-flight refuelling system -- which dear old Yoweri hasn't bought yet -- the flight duration goes up to 10 hours and the range to over 3,000 miles. Just the job for bombing a village in the Congo, where, give or take, Uganda has been illegally deploying its armies for the best part of 25 years.
Museveni is buying six Sukhois, each costing about $22m, which is roughly half of what Irish Aid gives him every year. But the purchase price doesn't even begin to cover the cost of flying an entire squadron, because any modern sophisticated fighter aircraft is the mere apex of a complex pyramid of technology and human training. Which is the main reason why the words 'African' and 'fighter-pilot' occur in the same sentence about as often as 'Aborigine' and 'Zurich', or 'Department of Foreign Affairs' and 'humility'. For every hour the Sukhoi spends in the air, it will need 10 hours' maintenance on the ground, by highly skilled technicians. And to train a pilot costs around €10m.
In other words, Uganda's supersonic air force will be a force to be reckoned with at around the same time that Brian Cowan puts the Bord na Mona Ballylongford power station into orbit. For it is simply impossible for a Third World country -- as we used to say, and I still do -- to leap the technological ladder like that. The factors that enable a complex aircraft like the Sukhoi to fly -- the fuel systems, the avionics, the maintenance regime -- are utterly beyond Uganda's means.
This has been the lesson for all countries that have attempted to skip generations in the acquisition of aircraft technology. In the 1960s, Germany learnt this after buying supersonic Lockheed F104 Starfighters: some 292 planes were lost because the aircraft made demands that were completely outside the Luftwaffe skill-set. Iran did something similar with the F14 Tomcat, as did Saudi Arabia with British Aerospace Lightnings, which enlivened a few air-shows at Riyadh by crashing into crowds, until there were no pilots or planes or even crowds left.
Needless to say, our own Air Corps is not remotely in the same league as Uganda's, even as we rush headlong towards membership of the Third World. So why is this tertiomondified State of ours now effectively subsidising Ugandan efforts to equip its air force with a fighter aircraft that is considerably superior to anything even the British, the Italians or the Germans currently have?
It's not as if the Ugandan air force has a perfect safety record. Last July, Uganda was able -- had it so chosen -- to commemorate the fifth anniversary of the death of Sudanese vice president John Garang who was killed in a crash of his Ugandan air force helicopter. The late VP was a close political ally of Museveni, and not even in the bizarre world of African politics is it the done thing to bump off good and essential chums. So, if the Ugandan air force can't keep a helicopter, carrying a vital ally, from flying into the ground, how will it keep a squadron of Mach 2 jet-fighters aloft?
Silly question. Obviously, the Department of Foreign Affairs will once again come up with an Irish solution to a Ugandan problem: more Irish money.

Count Dooku

BTW
Ugandan government repossesses Tullow oil field

liammur

George Helpless University wrote: »

Jeez, way to jump the gun. Before you send him to the guillotine why don't you try ascertain some of the facts. Write the man a letter, write your local TD a letter. Tell them what you think you know and ask them to explain it.

I'm not saying Martin has not messed up rightly here but I think his side of it and a few hard facts are warranted before the inevitable Facebook group is started.

M Martin is a disgrace, probably our worst minister, and takes some doing.

Cork boy 55

Now that Mr Martin is running for Taoseach
Perhaps he could explain the following

What He discussed with tullow OIL in Uganda last year?
What his and Fianna Fail links are with the tullow oil company?
Could he clairfy if there is any ascept of Irish AID dealings in Uganda
that is not on the Public record?

Martin also met representatives from Uganda's private sector which is also being supported by Irish Aid and with representatives of Tullow Oil which is currently exploring for oil in the country.
6 July 2010

http://allafrica.com/stories/201007061167.html

Tullow Uganda will enter into a Sale and Purchase Agreement (SPA) with Heritage Oil & Gas, a subsidiary of Heritage Oil plc. The deal is likely to be the biggest single transaction in Uganda’s emerging petroleum history...

It is understood that completion of the SPA is subject to certain conditions which include approval by Heritage shareholders at a meeting scheduled for January 25 and receipt of necessary consents from the government.
January 18 2010

http://www.monitor.co.ug/News/National/-/688334/844488/-/whc52a/-/index.html

Tullow Oil has completed the acquisition of Heritage Oil's assets in its Ugandan project.

The deal was subject to approval from the Ugandan government. Conditional approval was granted on July 6th

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/...breaking6.html

KAMPALA, June 30 (Xinhua) -- The Ugandan and Irish governments on Wednesday signed a memorandum of understanding (MOU) in which Ireland will offer aid worth 166 million Euros over the next five years to the East African country.

Syda Bbumba, Uganda's finance minister and the visiting Irish foreign minister Micheal Martin signed the MOU here at the ministry of finance headquarters.

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english201...c_13377589.htm

Frankie Lee

Cork boy 55 wrote: »

Now that Mr Martin is running for Taoseach
Perhaps he could explain the following

What He discussed with tullow OIL in Uganda last year?
What his and Fianna Fail links are with the tullow oil company?
Could he clairfy if there is any ascept of Irish AID dealings in Uganda
that is not on the Public record?


http://allafrica.com/stories/201007061167.html


http://www.monitor.co.ug/News/National/-/688334/844488/-/whc52a/-/index.html


http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/...breaking6.html


http://news.xinhuanet.com/english201...c_13377589.htm

This is plain old corruption. The media will not pick up on it unfortunately.

Cork boy 55

UPDATE ON OP

The first of the two Su-30 fighter jets have arrived in Uganda
Nice photo of the Flanker in the Ugandan colours mind!


http://www.airliners.net/photo/Uganda---Air/Sukhoi-Su-30MK2/1953037/L/

UGANDA'S plan to buy six sophisticated Russian-made Sukhoi Su-30MK2 fighter jets, first reported by Russian business publication, Vedomosti, and confirmed by the Ministry of Defence, makes absolutely no strategic sense. All it does is shore our ego by giving us the bragging rights as having the most powerful airforce in the Great Lakes region, but does not add to Uganda's security

http://allafrica.com/stories/201004140004.html

recedite

Well, I hope some Ugandan top gun, probably a politician's son, has a ball flying it around the jungle.
That €166 million the Fianna Fail leader earmarked for Uganda, and which was borrowed from the EU/IMF could have kept SNA teachers at work in schools here... but where's the fun in that?

Latest on this:

http://allafrica.com/stories/201110110573.html

Uganda: Top Ministers Took Bribes From Tullow Oil - Parliament Told

http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/0203/tullow-business.html

Green light for Tullow Uganda deals

[Jackass]

Every single member of FF neck deep in corrupt business practice shocker. It's not a political party, it's a corrupt business mens club.

eire4

[Jackass] wrote: »

Every single member of FF neck deep in corrupt business practice shocker. It's not a political party, it's a corrupt business mens club.

Corruption isn't the word for it any more sadly since their corruption and incompetence has basically destryed our countries finances and it is the people of Ireland who are paying the price. Not sure what the word is but corruption is way to nice.

bbsrs

eire4 wrote: »

Corruption isn't the word for it any more sadly since their corruption and incompetence has basically destryed our countries finances and it is the people of Ireland who are paying the price. Not sure what the word is but corruption is way to nice.

TREASON maybe.

jmayo

Well by all accounts the Sukhois aren't working out too well.
One had a bird strike but the engine is being replaced through a warranty deal with the Russians whereas there are rumours the other may have crashed on landing.

4 more are yet to be delivered it appears.

Perhaps they will need Mehole martin to organise another aid package for them. :rolleyes:

oh yeah on other news ff are a different party nowadays and have no place for shady characters who either proven downright liars or have been parties to disctinctly dodgy monetary transactions.
Isn't that right mehole and willie ? :rolleyes:

recedite

jmayo wrote: »

One had a bird strike but the engine is being replaced

It may not have been a bird strike, it could have been a machete thrown into the air by an angry villager in neighbouring Rwanda.
Apart from this incident, and the expensive crash landing, I think we can say the Sukhoi's have been a great success in defending Uganda's skies from its er.. enemies. Plus they look good on the tarmac.

jmayo

recedite wrote: »

It may not have been a bird strike, it could have been a machete thrown into the air by an angry villager in neighbouring Rwanda.
Apart from this incident, and the expensive crash landing, I think we can say the Sukhoi's have been a great success in defending Uganda's skies from its er.. enemies. Plus they look good on the tarmac.

Be fair they also use them to fly over Zaire or which ever version of the Congo it is these days.

It is this type of cr** that is causing some sane westerners to wonder why the hell we are continously being asked to copntribute aid to Africa.
Last year Ethiopia asked the international community for aid to help fight their famine and drought.
The next week they announced an increase in military spending to defend it's border with Eritrea. :rolleyes:

Although I think the Ugandian deal may have more to do with helping out Tullow oil than helping out Uganda ?
Funny how many ff TDs were connected with Tullow. :rolleyes:

This has got to be illegal

shedweller

Just a little something to remind us that Uganda doesn't need our aid packages:
http://www.newvision.co.ug/news/628885-tullow-finally-concedes.html

So Tullow Oil and their patient would-be partners, Total and the China National Offshore Oil Corporation, finally have Lake Albert oil production in their sights. In its 50th year of independence, Uganda is entering a new phase in its history.

How oil is extracted and refined in the west of the country will do much to determine the political-economy of the country for decades to come. Decisions taken in 2012, over the contracts and the supporting legislative framework, will leave a long legacy.

Serious times, then, and many concerns remain. The excitement of Ugandans is justifiably tempered. But amid the anxieties, there is perhaps some small cause for hope. State House and the wider political class asserted themselves over the companies and won some ground, at least when it comes to the question of revenue.

It has taken a year of private negotiations and public relations battles, played out before an audience of nervy markets and companies hurting at the delay. President Museveni took them to the edge, stared them down and waited for them to blink. While the full contracts are secret, the contours of that compromise deal are emerging.

They suggest two things. First, Museveni fought for, and got, the space to levy a windfall tax on the companies at times of high oil price. Tullow conceded a similar arrangement in its lucrative Productions Sharing Agreement in Ghana.

Much of the abstruse talk of the 'stabilisation clause', which proved such a sticking point until the announcement of a final deal last Friday, boiled down to this issue of tax. Over the 25-year life of the contract, Uganda needed the right to increase its revenue, particularly as the profit-sharing arrangement was already weighted in Tullow's favour.

Secondly, the amended clause creates, potentially, a space for improved regulatory standards, the cost of which would fall on the companies rather than the country. This, though, remains ambiguously worded and open to legal interpretation.

These are encouraging signs and the Ugandan government has no doubt drawn a lesson from the last year. At a time of high oil prices and diminishing reserves, companies are desperate to be at Lake Albert. Their talk of walking away if conditions were too 'tough' has been exposed as bluff. This is a partial renegotiation of the PSAs in all but name.

So Uganda will, in the next few years, have a lot of revenue flowing into their coffers, will they not? And we "pledged" 166m (it is, isn't it?) over 5 years to them!

http://www.dfa.ie/home/index.aspx?id=75069

Ireland’s new 5 year country strategy (PDF 868kb) for Uganda runs from 2010-2014, and commits over €166 million in official development assistance during that period. The strategy was launched by Irish Minister for Foreign Affairs, Mr. Micheál Martin in a ceremony in Kampala in June 2010 with the Ugandan Minister for Foreign Affairs, Hon. Syda Bbumba. The strategy focuses on critical sectors such as governance, HIV and AIDS and education. It also involves a significant commitment by Ireland to addressing hunger and vulnerability in the most disadvantaged northern regions of Uganda, especially Karamoja.

Would our own education system not benefit from this money? Nah, let's educate our future workforce in portacabins instead!

AlekSmart

shedweller wrote: »

Just a little something to remind us that Uganda doesn't need our aid packages:
http://www.newvision.co.ug/news/628885-tullow-finally-concedes.html


So Uganda will, in the next few years, have a lot of revenue flowing into their coffers, will they not? And we "pledged" 166m (it is, isn't it?) over 5 years to them!

http://www.dfa.ie/home/index.aspx?id=75069



Would our own education system not benefit from this money? Nah, let's educate our future workforce in portacabins instead!

I wonder if Museveni's negotiation prowess is available on contract..?

He might have done a better deal fo us than the likes of Ray Burke et al......:o