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Civil Partnership Bill passed by the Dail

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    #122
    rainbow kirby
    Registered Users Posts: 26,928 ✭✭✭✭rainbow kirby


    After Ronan Mullen tried to stall things all day, there's been a vote called, should be done by 6pm.


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    #123
    Beruthiel
    Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 42,362 Mod ✭✭✭✭Beruthiel


    Passed 48 - 4!


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    #124
    LookingFor
    Registered Users Posts: 2,682 ✭✭✭LookingFor


    Wow, that was an awful lot of noise and melodrama for the last couple of days for only 4 no votes in the end.


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    #125
    baby and crumble
    Registered Users Posts: 8,512 ✭✭✭baby and crumble


    So ok, someone tell me- does this mean it's totally passed everything now? Just for Mary McAleese to sign it, and then it's law, right?


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    #126
    rainbow kirby
    Registered Users Posts: 26,928 ✭✭✭✭rainbow kirby


    As far as I know, yes. She can refer it to the Supreme Court to determine constitutionality if she wants though.


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    #127
    IrishTonyO
    Registered Users Posts: 2,321 ✭✭✭IrishTonyO


    zoegh wrote: »
    So ok, someone tell me- does this mean it's totally passed everything now? Just for Mary McAleese to sign it, and then it's law, right?

    Yes, unless she refers it to the Supreme Court, but that is only if it is thought to be unconstitutional.


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    #128
    baby and crumble
    Registered Users Posts: 8,512 ✭✭✭baby and crumble


    Doubtful she will though... Especially since she worked so hard with Mary Robinson and David Norris on the decriminalisation, right?

    I have to say, i feel very happy right now. Not that I can actually avail of this until family circumstances change, but still. This is very cool.


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    #129
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 41,062 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    zoegh wrote: »
    So ok, someone tell me- does this mean it's totally passed everything now? Just for Mary McAleese to sign it, and then it's law, right?

    No - not quite - there are separate laws in the area of finance and social welfare that have to be introduced - presumably the finance parts are part of the budget - So I don't think we will be seeing the first ceremonies for at least 6 months

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #130
    Goodshape
    Registered Users Posts: 8,488 ✭✭✭Goodshape


    zoegh wrote: »
    I have to say, i feel very happy right now. Not that I can actually avail of this until family circumstances change, but still. This is very cool.
    Maybe I'll change my mind as the increased possibilities this offers to me start sinking in... but at the moment I'm having a hard time getting happy about this.

    All the debate and bull**** dragging on and on, and for what? "Will you, uhm, Civil Partner me?". Gosh, it's just what I've always dreamed of. :-S

    Yes it's an improvement but it's a half measure.

    Between this and the headshop bill, I'm finding the conservatism of this country quite depressing at the moment.


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    #131
    Goodshape
    Registered Users Posts: 8,488 ✭✭✭Goodshape


    Is there anywhere to watch the debates in the Seanad after the fact? I know they were live broadcast, but I missed 'em.


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    #132
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 41,062 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Goodshape wrote: »
    Is there anywhere to watch the debates in the Seanad after the fact? I know they were live broadcast, but I missed 'em.

    All of them? - It's about 20 hours

    It started at about 12:20 yesterday 07/07/10 finished about 6:30pm then came back around 8:45pm finished at 1:30 am

    This morning it started at about 11:30 and finished about 6:20pm - They are rough times but you can use the tool below

    http://www.oireachtas.ie/ViewDoc.asp?fn=/documents/livewebcast/WebcastingVideoClipcreationtool.htm%20&CatID=154&m=o

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #133
    Goodshape
    Registered Users Posts: 8,488 ✭✭✭Goodshape


    Johnnymcg wrote: »
    All of them? - It's about 20 hours

    It started at about 12:20 yesterday 07/07/10 finished about 6:30pm then came back around 8:45pm finished at 1:30 am

    This morning it started at about 11:30 and finished about 6:20pm - They are rough times but you can use the tool below

    http://www.oireachtas.ie/ViewDoc.asp?fn=/documents/livewebcast/WebcastingVideoClipcreationtool.htm%20&CatID=154&m=o
    Cool.

    20 hours though... yeah... maybe a clip show would be better :). Nice tool though.


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    #134
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 41,062 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Goodshape wrote: »
    Cool.

    20 hours though... yeah... maybe a clip show would be better :). Nice tool though.
    Yesterdays 2nd stage debate was brilliant though some senators spoke crap - some of it this morning was very very funny

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #135
    Sir Ophiuchus
    Registered Users Posts: 1,035 ✭✭✭Sir Ophiuchus


    Fair play to the head of the Seanad for just putting an end to the bull**** and guillotining the debate for 6.30pm. Irish Times tells me there were 77 issues raised, each of which would have taken two hours of debate. Even their coverage makes it clear how much stonewalling there was. Maybe they were trying to hold out for the summer recess.


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    #136
    Nevyn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 43,045 ✭✭✭✭Nevyn


    It is nice there is some legal status possible but it's not equality and I do think it makes second class citizens out of those who wish to marry a person of the same gender.


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    #137
    ixoy
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 17,992 Mod ✭✭✭✭ixoy


    Thaedydal wrote: »
    It is nice there is some legal status possible but it's not equality and I do think it makes second class citizens out of those who wish to marry a person of the same gender.
    Yeah it's Marriage Lite. I'm wondering if they ever do over marriage, would civil partners be able to avail of an upgrade edition to full marriage?


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    #138
    Bottle_of_Smoke
    Registered Users Posts: 9,770 ✭✭✭Bottle_of_Smoke


    ixoy wrote: »
    Yeah it's Marriage Lite. I'm wondering if they ever do over marriage, would civil partners be able to avail of an upgrade edition to full marriage?

    I could be wrong but I don't think the civ part bill is for same sex couples exclusively. Think heteros can do it too. So I would say when equality comes in it would be a case of getting married


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    #139
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 41,062 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Bottle_of_Smoke wrote: »
    I could be wrong but I don't think the civ part bill is for same sex couples exclusively. Think heteros can do it too. So I would say when equality comes in it would be a case of getting married
    no civil partnership is for gay couples only

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #140
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 41,062 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Sir Ophiuchus wrote: »
    Fair play to the head of the Seanad for just putting an end to the bull**** and guillotining the debate for 6.30pm. Irish Times tells me there were 77 issues raised, each of which would have taken two hours of debate. Even their coverage makes it clear how much stonewalling there was. Maybe they were trying to hold out for the summer recess.
    The last stage was a disgrace Ronan Mullen spoke on his amendments in order to stop other amendments being discussed

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #141
    Chuchoter
    Registered Users Posts: 4,305 ✭✭✭Chuchoter


    I was watching the live seanad blog, it was a bit of a mess. People talking about the wrong amendment, shouting, cutting across people. Its a wonder to me that the dail/seanad ever get anything done, its so disorganized.


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    #142
    Sir Ophiuchus
    Registered Users Posts: 1,035 ✭✭✭Sir Ophiuchus


    Johnnymcg wrote: »
    no civil partnership is for gay couples only

    Em, no. Same-sex and opposite-sex couples.


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    #143
    ixoy
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 17,992 Mod ✭✭✭✭ixoy


    Sir Ophiuchus wrote: »
    Em, no. Same-sex and opposite-sex couples.
    Nope. Civil partnership is for same-sex couples only. Co-habitation applies to all couples, including opposite sex. It's part of the same bill (as it covers some similar areas) but it's not civil partnership.


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    #144
    baby and crumble
    Registered Users Posts: 8,512 ✭✭✭baby and crumble


    Look, the way i see it is, whether we like it or not, we were NEVER going to get full marriage rights with this first piece of legislation. BUT we do now have a place of relative safety we can bargain from. yes, it takes time, but you can't expect all social progress to happen instantly. Yes, it would be nice, but it's not going to happen.

    I, as a lesbian, am delighted with this. Everyone will call it marriage anyway, and god knows when I propose I won't be asking herself to be my civil partner.


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    #145
    IrishTonyO
    Registered Users Posts: 2,321 ✭✭✭IrishTonyO


    I am delighted with the passing of the bill, now all I have to do is find a husband :)


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    #146
    L1011
    Registered Users Posts: 68,703 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    ixoy wrote: »
    Yeah it's Marriage Lite. I'm wondering if they ever do over marriage, would civil partners be able to avail of an upgrade edition to full marriage?

    In Iceland they allowed conversion anyway, the Prime Minister there was one of the first to go from CP to married with her wife.


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    #147
    Sir Ophiuchus
    Registered Users Posts: 1,035 ✭✭✭Sir Ophiuchus


    ixoy wrote: »
    Nope. Civil partnership is for same-sex couples only. Co-habitation applies to all couples, including opposite sex. It's part of the same bill (as it covers some similar areas) but it's not civil partnership.

    On examination of the exact wording I see that you are correct, my mistake. Thanks for the clarification.


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    #148
    rainbow kirby
    Registered Users Posts: 26,928 ✭✭✭✭rainbow kirby


    IrelandAM on TV3 this morning: discussing the Civil Partnership bill and other issues of LGBT parenting. Just if anyone's interested. :)


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    #149
    Reilly616
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 374 ✭✭Reilly616


    zoegh wrote: »
    Look, the way i see it is, whether we like it or not, we were NEVER going to get full marriage rights with this first piece of legislation. BUT we do now have a place of relative safety we can bargain from. yes, it takes time, but you can't expect all social progress to happen instantly. Yes, it would be nice, but it's not going to happen.

    I, as a lesbian, am delighted with this. Everyone will call it marriage anyway, and god knows when I propose I won't be asking herself to be my civil partner.

    I, like Norris, was originally opposed to the legislation, as I assumed once passed it would put the question of gay marriage to the bottom of the pile for the time being as it were. However, after watching the final Seanad debate almost in its entirity, it appears that there is a large proportion of Senators (I can't vouge for TDs) who are treating this as a stepping stone piece of legislation. How long it takes for the next step is anyone's guess though.


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    #150
    Aard
    Registered Users Posts: 4,905 ✭✭✭Aard


    Yes, I know of at least one TD who also sees it as a stepping-stone. They said that they didn't want Civil Marriage straight away, that people "weren't ready" for it. I inferred from this that they'd be worried they'd lose seats were it introduced right off the bat. Instead, we're spoon-feeding the electorate. I can see the merits of this, yet it contains the anomaly that this bill actually creates more inequality than it solves. I have faith that before long, Civil Marriage will be introduced in Ireland.


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    #151
    Roro4Brit
    Registered Users Posts: 595 ✭✭✭Roro4Brit


    rainbow kirby wrote: »
    IrelandAM on TV3 this morning: discussing the Civil Partnership bill and other issues of LGBT parenting. Just if anyone's interested. :)

    What an adorable family. I have many many friends from 'traditional' familes whose parents can't even stomach each others presence, yet this state gives them a higher status than this family, which is clearly filled with love, respect and all the values that a family should be based on.

    The two kids are fine young gents, clearly with good heads on their shoulders. If even half of the 'families' that are around today could produce such lovely kids this world would be a much better place.

    The statment at the end where one of the women mentioned that they would have to move all their assets to NZ before they die in order to protect their kids interests made my stomach turn.


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