Who was the greatest cyclist ever?

sxt

Armstrong,himself, refers to Merckx as the "greatest".

sy

A.N. Other

ednwireland wrote: »

.......and wtf does yoda know about cycling bet the short arse cant even ride a bike, have you ever seen yoda on a bike .... have you !

Yes!

Probably riding the Marmotte next year.

corkandproud

dekbhoy wrote: »

ya couldnt genuinely put Armstrongs name up there unless like the cycling authorities ya choose to ignore the fact the man used performance enhancing drugs ,but sure thats an argument for another day.....but sure so were so many , my personal favourite was sean kelly . at least he was as clean as a whistle

You sure about that? Is it not agreed that the only top class cyclist that may be clean is Lemond.

mcgratheoin

A.N. Other

iregk wrote: »

Thats a bit of a stretch now in fairness. Many would place Indurain in their top few. Certainly I would anyway, just not on the top spot.

In the top few yeah, but if when trying to pick one, how long would it take the average cycle fan to rule him out?

boksmashoffice

Big Mig as the man had class. Something the modern guys could do with.

Brian?

A.N. Other

Junior wrote: »

And as if you thought gut instinct wasn't enough to base this decision on, check out the virtual musette's posting on this topic and the reasoning and maths behind it..


http://thegrupetto.squarespace.com/posts/category/the-top-25-cyclists-of-the-modern-era

I think that's the 3rd year in a row that's been posted around the start of the tour. Mind you I only read this forum around the tour, too lazy to actually cycle myself. It's band on though. Contador should start creeping up into that list fairly soon though as one of the few people to have won all 3 grand tours.

petethedrummer

I think if you put all the greats into one 3 week long race, Greg LeMond would win, with Hinault second.

Junior

A.N. Other

petethedrummer wrote: »

I think if you put all the greats into one 3 week long race, Greg LeMond would win, with Hinault second.

You reckon ? That would mean LeMond would have to attack.

Wibbs

A.N. Other

petethedrummer wrote: »

I think if you put all the greats into one 3 week long race, Greg LeMond would win, with Hinault second.

On the same bikes, with modern nutrition and training? I'd still reckon Merckx would destroy the field. Anquetil would be highly placed too. The guy was an animal triallist and a very aggressive rider. Over a single season with classics and criteriums as well as grand tours, Merckx would be a shoe in for the top spot. I reckon our own Kelly would be in the top 5 too. At his peak a very consistent rider. Even kept in contact on the climbs. In the days when climbers were specialised animals and someone with LA's build wouldnt really figure and no way would figure at the speeds he has done. Then again there are reasons for that........

godihatedehills

Eddy Merckx

Lance, of course.

Who is this Merckx guy anyway?

petethedrummer

Junior wrote: »

You reckon ?

Yes

Wibbs wrote: »

On the same bikes, with modern nutrition and training?

110%

FISMA

Eddy Merckx

Lance Armstrong is the clear winner IMHO.

The TdF IS cycling's benchmark event. Not the Vuelta, not the Giro, not the Olympics, or the World.

Such a comparison, is albeit difficult. I would be willing to bet that if Eddie Merck could time travel to the TdF today, everyone in the Peloton would beat him.

The level to which the bar has been raised is incredible. The riders of the past never had the volume or quality of riders that we see today.

Until someone wins 7 TdF's, Lance is the greatest cyclist.

Also, you know you're the best when everyone around you just cannot seem to handle the truth, backed by the best European scientists, and accuse you of doping. Even following you to Central Park NYC to ask you to piss in a cup, long after the TdF.

irishmotorist

A.N. Other

FISMA wrote: »

Until someone wins 7 TdF's, Lance is the greatest cyclist.

Also, you know you're the best when everyone around you just cannot seem to handle the truth, backed by the best European scientists, and accuse you of doping. Even following you to Central Park NYC to ask you to piss in a cup, long after the TdF.

LOL

irishmotorist

A.N. Other

I'm sorry - that was a bit mean. It would appear that you haven't read too much about the Tour de France or cycling, perhaps apart from Lance's own books.

To say thata cos Lance won the TdF 7 times he's better than anybody is similar to saying that whoever wins the Monaco Grand Prix is better than the person who won the F1 World Championship.

As for the drug accusations, they say that there ain't smoke without fire. In this case, the fire is clear to see but there's so much smoke it's nearly putting the fire out!

FISMA

A.N. Other

FISMA wrote: »

Lance Armstrong is the clear winner IMHO.

The TdF IS cycling's benchmark event. Not the Vuelta, not the Giro, not the Olympics, or the World.

Such a comparison, is albeit difficult. I would be willing to bet that if Eddie Merck could time travel to the TdF today, everyone in the Peloton would beat him.

The level to which the bar has been raised is incredible. The riders of the past never had the volume or quality of riders that we see today.

Until someone wins 7 TdF's, Lance is the greatest cyclist.

Also, you know you're the best when everyone around you just cannot seem to handle the truth, backed by the best European scientists, and accuse you of doping. Even following you to Central Park NYC to ask you to piss in a cup, long after the TdF.

I suggest you have a look at this page. He may have won "only" 5 T de Fs but his carrer total of 11 grand tour victories remains unmatched. He has won all jerseys at one time or another, won many classics several times including Paris-Roubaix as well as setting the hour record on the track, amongst many, many more achievements.

Armstrong on the other hand concentrated on one race and one race only, which is one of the big reasons he was able to win it 7 times in a row. If Merckx had adopted a similar strategy he could probably have done similar, but unlike many people today, he realised there was more to cycling than one race in July and won races all year round.

NeedMoreGears

26 miles, six days per week, all weathers for 40 years on a fixie made of concrete with 2 or 3 stone of letters plus whatever shopping that the older people needed. One time we reckoned he travelled more or less 250,000 miles on that bike. Even after he retired he used to cycle the route. No wonder he made it to 96 in reasonable nick.


PS in the new money that's 42 km per day with around 12 -20 kg material with him. Letters were those things people used to communicate with before the interweb.

oilcanharry

Has to be needmoregears Grandad then

irishmotorist

A.N. Other

Also, basing it on Tour de France success only, Merckx has worn the yellow jersey more times than anybody else. I'll admit that Lance has worn it a lot more than I thought and is running Eddy close, but Merckx is still a clear leader.

Rank Name Country Count
1 Eddy Merckx Belgium 96
2 Lance Armstrong United States 83
3 Bernard Hinault France 75
4 Miguel Indurain Spain 60
5 Jacques Anquetil France 50

Source:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yellow_jersey_statistics

DirkVoodoo

FISMA wrote: »

Such a comparison, is albeit difficult. I would be willing to bet that if Eddie Merck could time travel to the TdF today, everyone in the Peloton would beat him.

Eh, if Mercx could time travel then he could win the race. In fact, he could win every race ever, at the same time. Surely that would make him the greatest?

In fact (and if my basic temporal mechanics are correct), he wouldn't even need roads to complete any of these races as he could easily outfit his bike with hovertechnology and power the time circuits with a Mr.Fusion.

I rest my case.

Wibbs

A.N. Other

FISMA wrote: »

Lance Armstrong is the clear winner IMHO.

The TdF IS cycling's benchmark event. Not the Vuelta, not the Giro, not the Olympics, or the World.

It has been and has become even more the benchmark in the public eye alright. LA's success has made it pretty much the only game in town in the english speaking world(esp America). The money follows the success. Most americans will have never heard of people like Merckx. If LA had been a classics rider and dominated them I suspect the TdF would be less followed in much of the world.

Such a comparison, is albeit difficult. I would be willing to bet that if Eddie Merck could time travel to the TdF today, everyone in the Peloton would beat him.

The level to which the bar has been raised is incredible. The riders of the past never had the volume or quality of riders that we see today.

The equipment is better, the tactics are certainly better and the training better, but the mark 1 human being simply hasnt changed. Any improvements there... well we're back to the issue of the very very very long list of confirmed dopers among the top echelon of cyclists, including LA's team.....

On tactics: LA is a very tactical rider. He aims almost exclusively on one race. In that race his team make up a goodly proportion of his success. Thats cool. It has become much more a tactical team event over the years. Merckx would attack all the time. He won tours with not so great team efforts. Anquetil another one like that. With team tactics like LAs behind him? I genuinely believe it would be no contest. He was the better all rounder by far. He proved this by winning pretty much every style of event he entered, inc the world hour record. Against very highly rated cyclists too.

Until someone wins 7 TdF's, Lance is the greatest cyclist.

At best, he's the most successful TdF rider.

Also, you know you're the best when everyone around you just cannot seem to handle the truth, backed by the best European scientists, and accuse you of doping. Even following you to Central Park NYC to ask you to piss in a cup, long after the TdF.

That's naive in the extreme. "European" scientists have had issue with his version of the truth for many a year. The Americans seem to turn a blind eye or stick their fingers in the ears when it comes up. The questions surrounding the chap are getting louder and the answers coming from his camp are getting less and less convincing. If indeed he raced clean and won against a peloton over the years where a huge proportion of his rivals and team mates were proven dopers, then yes he is the greatest cyclist of all time and one of the most unusual humans ever born.

ednwireland

A.N. Other

FISMA wrote: »

Lance Armstrong is the clear winner IMHO.

The TdF IS cycling's benchmark event. Not the Vuelta, not the Giro, not the Olympics, or the World.

Such a comparison, is albeit difficult. I would be willing to bet that if Eddie Merck could time travel to the TdF today, everyone in the Peloton would beat him.

The level to which the bar has been raised is incredible. The riders of the past never had the volume or quality of riders that we see today.

Until someone wins 7 TdF's, Lance is the greatest cyclist.

Also, you know you're the best when everyone around you just cannot seem to handle the truth, backed by the best European scientists, and accuse you of doping. Even following you to Central Park NYC to ask you to piss in a cup, long after the TdF.

hahahahahahaha

most of us hear watch (or certainly talk) about more than one race a year the season goes from feb to october (ish) not from the start of july to the end of the third week in july