Ireland V England (Nov 2010 @ Aviva Stadium)

df1985

Zebra3 wrote: »

Does anyone actually want to see Ireland play Wales, Scotland and NI in a meaningless tournament?

I want to see us beat nothern ireland i have to admit!

PJTierney

ziggy wrote: »

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How many of those stats are defensive?

ziggy

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Bob the Seducer

ziggy wrote: »

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England 0 Algeria 0
Ireland 3 Algeria 0

Anyway, I digress, I'd be in favour of the game but the gardai could have their hands full (with both sides) if it does go ahead.

df1985

they were given a lesson in the sense that no victory is ever guaranteed which certainly seemed the attitude of many going into the algeria game.

lesson learned!

ziggy

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Walsh

Bob the Seducer wrote: »

Anyway, I digress, I'd be in favour of the game but the gardai could have their hands full (with both sides) if it does go ahead.

The Garda can't even control a Bohs v Rovers match?

Bob the Seducer

Walsh wrote: »

The Garda can't even control a Bohs v Rovers match?

They don't care about Bohs v Rovers, if something kicks off there the worst that happens is it gets a mention in the Indo or a TV3 special, if there was an incident at an Ireland v England game it would be news everywhere (except North Korea).

Coillte_Bhoy

Het-Field wrote: »

There would be no blood unless a few Irish idiots let their emotions get the better of them. Or the FAI allow tickets to get into the hands of the British Far-Right.

Why is the possibility being mentioned of Irish elements causing trouble?? It has never happened before at one of these fixtures and times were much more volatile then. Typical of certain people trying the "both sides have scumbags argument". I was at both the 91 and 95 games and didnt see one example of Irish fans being out of order in any way whatsoever. Why start scaremongering now?

Boskowski

ziggy wrote: »

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An obvious exxageration. However. I saw the match and while all those stats may be right there is no denying that Algeria looked much more comfortable on the ball. Much better first touch, much better passin but toothless up front. England looked tense and laborious. They could have played another 90 mins without scoring. Both.

ziggy

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Fr Tod Umptious

Coillte_Bhoy wrote: »

Why is the possibility being mentioned of Irish elements causing trouble?? It has never happened before at one of these fixtures and times were much more volatile then. Typical of certain people trying the "both sides have scumbags argument". I was at both the 91 and 95 games and didnt see one example of Irish fans being out of order in any way whatsoever. Why start scaremongering now?

Based on what happened in 1995 and the large number of scumbags that traveled from England and Northern Ireland for the occasion I would not be one bit surprised if a a number of Dublin based scumbags saw a game like this as a opportunity for a fight

Kinda like the Love Ulster parade back in 2006

Fr Tod Umptious

JP Liz V1 wrote: »

If they play as bad as they did in the WC we should hammer them

And if Ireland don't, or if England win then that's ok cos it's only a friendly

major bill

Coillte_Bhoy wrote: »

Why is the possibility being mentioned of Irish elements causing trouble?? It has never happened before at one of these fixtures and times were much more volatile then. Typical of certain people trying the "both sides have scumbags argument". I was at both the 91 and 95 games and didnt see one example of Irish fans being out of order in any way whatsoever. Why start scaremongering now?

that was 15 years ago in fairness, the typical welcoming paddy is all but gone in this country.look at dublin riots. im not scaremongering just pointing out that people shouldnt be so naive when it comes to these fixtures.

Fr Tod Umptious

Ah well, it will not happen, it's Norway instaed

http://www.irishtimes.com/sports/soccer/2010/0702/1224273877299.html

pickarooney

It sounds like an absolutely dreaful prospect, football-wise.

Het-Field

Coillte_Bhoy wrote: »

Why is the possibility being mentioned of Irish elements causing trouble?? It has never happened before at one of these fixtures and times were much more volatile then. Typical of certain people trying the "both sides have scumbags argument". I was at both the 91 and 95 games and didnt see one example of Irish fans being out of order in any way whatsoever. Why start scaremongering now?

Im not saying that at all. You misrepresented me altogether. I was there in 1995, and the Irish fans displayed restraint and calm in the face of overwhelming provocation. However, that is not to say that there are forces which are not involved in the Irish footballing community which would be happy to cause trouble. Thus, it is not scaremongering. It is simply recalling the likes of Erighi etc who have made a habit of using sporting events to proffer their political agenda. These people would not be inside the ground, nor would they have an interest. However, they would be more then willing to use an event like this to promote their agenda, which could be provocative.

In response to previous posts.

The type of English person who was in the stand in 1995 was not the average English Fan. As was noted in the aftermath, a variety of people to whom the original tickets were issued were never in Dublin on the infamous night in February 1995. They had managed to be funneled to an unoffical branch of the "English Traveling Supporters Club", which happened to be operated by those who were involved in groups like the BNP/NF and Combat 18. They used the event as a pseduo-political protest against the incremental developments of the Peace Process and the marches towards devolution in Northern Ireland. They were a nasty and violent group, who came to town with destruction on their minds.

While i dont believe violence is out of the question, I believe that times have changed. It is interesting to note that England played Northern Ireland in 2005and it passed off with relatively little trouble. In fact, it was a match between Northern Ireland and Poland in 2007 which saw widespread disturbance. The issues upon which the violence at the 1995 game are no longer as prevalent. Thus, while hooliganism may rear its ugly head again, it will not be to the same degree, nor would a match between Ireland and England be abandoned. I think this is hysteria, and I believe if only football people of Ireland and England show up, then the match would pass off peacefully and without difficulty.

Coillte_Bhoy

major bill wrote: »

that was 15 years ago in fairness, the typical welcoming paddy is all but gone in this country.look at dublin riots. im not scaremongering just pointing out that people shouldnt be so naive when it comes to these fixtures.

Thats my point. it was 15 years ago and Anglo/Irish tensions would have been much higher than they are likely to be today. I fail to see what the riots against a loayalist parade have to do with it. Granted, if English yobs come looking for trouble i'd imagine they would find it but i cant see Irish lads instigating anything.

Coillte_Bhoy

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

Based on what happened in 1995 and the large number of scumbags that traveled from England and Northern Ireland for the occasion I would not be one bit surprised if a a number of Dublin based scumbags saw a game like this as a opportunity for a fight

Kinda like the Love Ulster parade back in 2006

But there was no problems with Dublin lads. You make the point yourself. Maybe a few headers might be looking for a scrap but i think thats about the size of it.

Coillte_Bhoy

Het-Field wrote: »

Im not saying that at all. You misrepresented me altogether. I was there in 1995, and the Irish fans displayed restraint and calm in the face of overwhelming provocation. However, that is not to say that there are forces which are not involved in the Irish footballing community which would be happy to cause trouble. Thus, it is not scaremongering. It is simply recalling the likes of Erighi etc who have made a habit of using sporting events to proffer their political agenda. These people would not be inside the ground, nor would they have an interest. However, they would be more then willing to use an event like this to promote their agenda, which could be provocative.

What sporting events have Eirigi used to proffer their political agenda?? The openng of Croker maybe?? Fair enough but they had what they felt was a legitimate political point to make (which i completely disagreed with) but i fail to see how they could use a friendly match to promote a policial agenda. Apart from Croekr what other events have they used?

While i dont believe violence is out of the question, I believe that times have changed. It is interesting to note that England played Northern Ireland in 2005and it passed off with relatively little trouble. In fact, it was a match between Northern Ireland and Poland in 2007 which saw widespread disturbance. The issues upon which the violence at the 1995 game are no longer as prevalent. Thus, while hooliganism may rear its ugly head again, it will not be to the same degree, nor would a match between Ireland and England be abandoned. I think this is hysteria, and I believe if only football people of Ireland and England show up, then the match would pass off peacefully and without difficulty.

As you say there was little or no trouble between NI and England in Belfast when you might have expected nationalists to be 'stirring things' yet you feel that may be the case in Dublin. In fact the trouble surrounding the Poland game was largely involved loyalist elements.

Het-Field

Coillte_Bhoy wrote: »

What sporting events have Eirigi used to proffer their political agenda?? The openng of Croker maybe?? Fair enough but they had what they felt was a legitimate political point to make (which i completely disagreed with) but i fail to see how they could use a friendly match to promote a policial agenda. Apart from Croekr what other events have they used?





As you say there was little or no trouble between NI and England in Belfast when you might have expected nationalists to be 'stirring things' yet you feel that may be the case in Dublin. In fact the trouble surrounding the Poland game was largely involved loyalist elements.

They were outside Croker on both occasions when the English Rugby team came to town. It was not an isolated protest. I dont expect trouble from the Nationalist community. In fact I dont want any "community" there at all besides the "football community". A friendly match with England carries the same weight and significance as any top class soccer fixture.

I didnt expect nationalists to stir ****. I was suggesting that there was no problems from the English end. Given the precarious state of stormont, and proposed devolution, it was a chance for the same creeps which wrecked the Dublin game to attend and cause trouble. Again you are throwing jingoistic weight into a rebuttal to an argument which I have never made.

Returning to my original post, I stated that it is my belief that it would be an element of Irish scumbaggery which might create a small scale proble. I was not conflating football people or the nationalist community into this. Im speaking of the same lads which vented their frustrations on O Connell street in February 2006. They were neither "nationalist" or "loyalist", they were just yobs. There is nothing to stop them coming there and seeking to stir the pot. Equally, there is nothing to suggest that the C18 style English fan wouldnt turn up again. However, given the peace which prevailed in 2005 in Belfast, I believe that it would take a few domestic scummers to start trouble, given that they are out to find trouble. While the Irish soccer fan can never be charged with being likely to stir this, there is nothing to prevent Irish people starting it. However, I dont believe it would be anywhere near the extent of violence which prevailed in 1995. I think you are reading too deeply into what I have written.

3hn2givr7mx1sc

I think it would be class, and I'd fight tooth and nail to get a ticket.
Heh, great choice of words.:o

I think they're would be a few incidents, but not in the ground because the away section is kinda awkward looking to get to. There are more scumbags in Ireland now than there was in 1995, and a lot of them will see this as their chance to get revenge on the English for what they did in '95.

Irishrossoblu

There can still be some trouble in November now that Norway are playing. They are protestants after all. I would say it will be 1995 all over again

Coillte_Bhoy

Het-Field wrote: »

They were outside Croker on both occasions when the English Rugby team came to town. It was not an isolated protest. I dont expect trouble from the Nationalist community. In fact I dont want any "community" there at all besides the "football community". A friendly match with England carries the same weight and significance as any top class soccer fixture.

Didnt realise they were outside Croke Park a second time. Ridiculous imo.

I didnt expect nationalists to stir ****. I was suggesting that there was no problems from the English end. Given the precarious state of stormont, and proposed devolution, it was a chance for the same creeps which wrecked the Dublin game to attend and cause trouble. Again you are throwing jingoistic weight into a rebuttal to an argument which I have never made.

Fair enough. I read you wrong

Returning to my original post, I stated that it is my belief that it would be an element of Irish scumbaggery which might create a small scale proble. I was not conflating football people or the nationalist community into this. Im speaking of the same lads which vented their frustrations on O Connell street in February 2006. They were neither "nationalist" or "loyalist", they were just yobs. There is nothing to stop them coming there and seeking to stir the pot. Equally, there is nothing to suggest that the C18 style English fan wouldnt turn up again. However, given the peace which prevailed in 2005 in Belfast, I believe that it would take a few domestic scummers to start trouble, given that they are out to find trouble. While the Irish soccer fan can never be charged with being likely to stir this, there is nothing to prevent Irish people starting it. However, I dont believe it would be anywhere near the extent of violence which prevailed in 1995. I think you are reading too deeply into what I have written.

In fairness, whether you agree with them or not i think a significant section of the rioters that day were and woiuld consider themselves nationalists. To say otherwise is just ignoring them. But ya i'm sure there was also a fair few scum bags who saw the chance of a scrap and jumped at it.

Livvie

Would love it as long as the morons don't get tickets.

Coillte_Bhoy

Livvie wrote: »

Would love it as long as the morons don't get tickets.

Who do you mean? Anyway there surely wont be any tickets on general sale. The block bookers will take wahtever allocation they are given, mind you, there are a few morons among that crew as well

3hn2givr7mx1sc

Coillte_Bhoy wrote: »

Who do you mean? Anyway there surely wont be any tickets on general sale. The block bookers will take wahtever allocation they are given, mind you, there are a few morons among that crew as well

You know right fcuking well who he means, why do you keep trying to troll this thread?

Mental_Legend

As much as I would love to see this game, it's been confirmed that Ireland will play Norway on the 17th of November in the Aviva. I really hope the FAI do all they can to arrange Ireland vs England for some time in the near future.

Cypher_sounds

Yeah i heard that too, we are playing Norway in November.

stovelid

Coillte_Bhoy wrote: »

i think a significant section of the rioters that day were and woiuld consider themselves nationalists.

.

Coillte_Bhoy wrote: »

i'm sure there was also a fair few scum bags who saw the chance of a scrap and jumped at it.

noodler

Coillte_Bhoy wrote: »

In fairness, whether you agree with them or not i think a significant section of the rioters that day were and woiuld consider themselves nationalists. To say otherwise is just ignoring them. But ya i'm sure there was also a fair few scum bags who saw the chance of a scrap and jumped at it.

Lets be very clear about this.

The people who took part in the crap in 2006 in Dublin City Centre were scum, vermin whatever you want to call it.

They could consider themselves Panda bears for all I care.

Fr Tod Umptious

I find it amazing that after everyone swore they would never call the place the 'Aviva Stadium' I have seen it mentioned at least twice on this thread

DB10

Anyone who thinks there won't be trouble is deluded, and that is not scare mongering.

I'm definitely there if it's on.

Yakult

Would definally draw a crowd. And I have wanted to see Ireland take on England for a while now. Would be great to beat them.

mike65

I'm sure Landsdown will be thronged at the thought of Norway.

Father Damo

Ive been waiting for this since 1995. The banning orders have vastly reduced the scum going to England matches (or frightened them into behaving themselves). England must be the only country in Europe we have not met in qualifying or friendlies since then.

Coillte_Bhoy

noodler wrote: »

Lets be very clear about this.

The people who took part in the crap in 2006 in Dublin City Centre were scum, vermin whatever you want to call it.

They could consider themselves Panda bears for all I care.

In your opinion, but you cannot assign the same motives to each and every individual that day. I think it's fair to say most of them would consider them selves nationalists wheteher that is debasing the name of moderate nationalists is neither here nor there.

Coillte_Bhoy

baz2009 wrote: »

You know right fcuking well who he means, why do you keep trying to troll this thread?

No i dont know who he means but i presume he means local yobs and if that is the case i was merely pointing out that as no tickets will be on general sale the chances of so called morons hetting their hands on them are virtually nil. I wish everyone would stop scaremongering. Especially si nce Norway have been confirmed for this date by the FAI and even so there is no way the English FA would risk tainting their 2018 bid by risking a repeat of 1995.

Coillte_Bhoy

mike65 wrote: »

I'm sure Landsdown will be thronged at the thought of Norway.

It will be a sell out anyway whether the ground is full or not. I think it will be full as anyone who is not a bb and gets a chance of a ticket will want to go along and see the new stadium.

Coillte_Bhoy

..

Het-Field

Coillte_Bhoy wrote: »

No i dont know who he means but i presume he means local yobs and if that is the case i was merely pointing out that as no tickets will be on general sale the chances of so called morons hetting their hands on them are virtually nil. I wish everyone would stop scaremongering. Especially si nce Norway have been confirmed for this date by the FAI and even so there is no way the English FA would risk tainting their 2018 bid by risking a repeat of 1995.

The problem is, there is no real risk of repeat. What occurred in 1995 took place by vitue of a specific "political" group attending, at a time when a very sensitive political issue was underway. These people were politically aligned, they were not just hooligans with a penchant for violence.

Nobody is scaremongering, however, we have come to realise that Ireland does have it's scumbag elements too, and that there is the potential for small pockets of Irish Scumbags to seek out a fight with English fans who may have made the journey had the game gone ahead. The riots in 2006 highlight that these people can turn up, and seek out a fight when they feel English elements can be somewhere en-masse.

Coillte_Bhoy

Het-Field wrote: »

The problem is, there is no real risk of repeat. What occurred in 1995 took place by vitue of a specific "political" group attending, at a time when a very sensitive political issue was underway. These people were politically aligned, they were not just hooligans with a penchant for violence.

Nobody is scaremongering, however, we have come to realise that Ireland does have it's scumbag elements too, and that there is the potential for small pockets of Irish Scumbags to seek out a fight with English fans who may have made the journey had the game gone ahead. The riots in 2006 highlight that these people can turn up, and seek out a fight when they feel English elements can be somewhere en-masse.

The 2006 riots were politically motivated in response to a Loyalist Parade through the streets of Dublin. Once trouble flared, the lcoal yobs of course joined in. I agree that we have our own sucmbags who would love to cause trouble at the matchbut they would not be organised as such and would have no cohesive formation.

Attaching themselves to a politcal protest ala Dublin 2006 was perfect for them but in terms of a football match i cannot honestly see any of our more extreme polical groups shooting themselves in the PR foot by organising anything.

DB10

I don't think political direction is needed. You would be suprised how quickly numbers of people can turn up en masse and cause trouble.

Coillte_Bhoy

DB10 wrote: »

I don't think political direction is needed. You would be suprised how quickly numbers of people can turn up en masse and cause trouble.

I feel like i'm going round in circles here. That is my point. There will be no focal point for trouble makers to attach themselves to, is what i'm saying. If a few English fans go looking for trouble i'm sure our local 'heroes' will be happy to oblige. I really wish people would stop making out that there isa huge undercurrent of malcontents who are only waiting to disrupt a football match. get real ffs.

noodler

Coillte_Bhoy wrote: »

In your opinion, but you cannot assign the same motives to each and every individual that day. I think it's fair to say most of them would consider them selves nationalists wheteher that is debasing the name of moderate nationalists is neither here nor there.

They are scumbags who used a the pretense of a parade to destroy part of our streets, loot shops and attack the people we employ to protect us.

Utter scum.

Coillte_Bhoy

noodler wrote: »

They are scumbags who used a the pretense of a parade to destroy part of our streets, loot shops and attack the people we employ to protect us.

Utter scum.

You finished your rant?? Are you lecturing me?? Have i disagreed with any of your sentiments??? What is the point of your post in the context of this thread??

noodler

Coillte_Bhoy wrote: »

You finished your rant?? Are you lecturing me?? Have i disagreed with any of your sentiments??? What is the point of your post in the context of this thread??

You seem intent on telling me the people looting, attacking Gardai and smashing up town have some sort of nationalistic intent?

I am telling you otherwise.

EDIT: Yes, I've finished my rant.

Coillte_Bhoy

noodler wrote: »

You seem intent on telling me the people looting, attacking Gardai and smashing up town have some sort of nationalistic intent?

I am telling you otherwise.

Who do you think you are with your "I'm telling you". Thats your opinion, fair enough but dont be so condescending. I am not intent on 'telling' anyone anything, merely outlining what i think. It's called debate.

And i have clearly said that imo 'a section' of the crowd were politically motivated. Anyway this has nothing to do with the England game which aint going to happen in any case. Look i'm done with this argument ok?

noodler

Coillte_Bhoy wrote: »

Who do you think you are with your "I'm telling you". Thats your opinion, fair enough but dont be so condescending. I am not intent on 'telling' anyone anything, merely outlining what i think. It's called debate.

And i have clearly said that imo 'a section' of the crowd were politically motivated. Anyway this has nothing to do with the England game which aint going to happen in any case. Look i'm done with this argument ok?

I am not condescending just because I know, like the rest of the population does, that the people out for trouble that day had not 'political' ambitions.

If you sympathise with them then you aren't a far cry from what they are.

Coillte_Bhoy

noodler wrote: »

I am not condescending just because I know, like the rest of the population does, that the people out for trouble that day had not 'political' ambitions.

If you sympathise with them then you aren't a far cry from what they are.

Oh you know do you? Must be great to be so self assured in everything. So you deny that militant nationalist/republicans had anything to do with the trouble that day?? Who do you think organised things?? Fine, keep your head in the sand if you wish?

As for you questioning do i sympathise with them, what has that got to with it? For the record, no, i have no sympathy whatsoever for the rioters. Neither do i have any association with any republican/nationalist organisations either but i dont let my own personal views cloud my judgement on such issues.