UFC 116 Discussion ****SPOILERS INSIDE****

rovert

chordtype wrote: »

Sherdog called. They want their thread back.

It was a title match. What if the fight had of been stopped within the first couple of minutes? People would be complaining about how it was stopped too soon, especially since there was a title on the line. To me at least it seemed that Brock was defending himself sufficiently on the ground during the first round. He came out in the second and scored with a takedown and showed good ground game. He won. Carwin put up a good fight but just couldn't get it done in the first and was overpowered on the ground during the second. He lost.

So you are saying the ref didnt trick Carwin into gassing?

MarkJD

pablohoney87 wrote: »

Can you at least admit that fights have been stopped for less and not considered controversial?

Yes i can there have been plenty of fights even in recent time where terrible decisions have been made, someone made the point earlier that there needs to be consistency and this is very true.

Look at nearly every other major sport out there, Football / Tennis / Rugby bad decisions are made all the time some worse than others. Anyone saying that fight should of been stopped because it didnt follow the trend of other referees or decisions are idiots. He defended himself and he got Carwin off his back twice, would of been a pretty bad decision to stop that fight. If he wasnt working off his back and defending himself sure but that wasnt the case. Anyone who says otherwise deal with it!

pablohoney87

MrStuffins wrote: »

Fights also end in Bullsh1t deisions, so now every fight should?

You seem to miss thw entire point!

You should watch the Presser!

I have watched the presser,
Whats the point ive missed exactly? You cannot argue that absorbing punishment until your opponent gasses out counts as intelligently defending yourself.

Plastikman_eire

rovert wrote: »

Facts would have evidence, do I really have to rehash the points I made earlier that people had little or no answer for?

Carwin landed a similar number (or higher, i'll need to wait for fight metric) of unanswered blows on Lesnar, as Lesnar did on Mir in the 2nd fight.

That's not Brocks problem though, but like in the list of points I made the refs need to be more consistent. (With that said, does getting the **** kicked out of you than subbing a defenseless opponent, really merit the fanboy victory laps that we are seeing?)

MrStuffins

chordtype wrote: »

Sherdog called. They want their thread back.

It was a title match. What if the fight had of been stopped within the first couple of minutes? People would be complaining about how it was stopped too soon, especially since there was a title on the line. To me at least it seemed that Brock was defending himself sufficiently on the ground during the first round. He came out in the second and scored with a takedown and showed good ground game. He won. Carwin put up a good fight but just couldn't get it done in the first and was overpowered on the ground during the second. He lost.

MMA is a combination of so many elements, and cardio is a major one.

Everyone saying "He only lost because he gassed" might as well come out after every KO finish in MMA and say "He only lost because he got punched really hard and was knocked into a coma"

MarkJD

rovert wrote: »

In what sense? I watched it live and it is selectable here:

http://www.f4wonline.com/content/view/13960/

Ye every soruce i find is the one hosted from the UFC website, i cant get the video to load passed when Leben starts talking. You didnt have this trouble? The buffer goes passed that point but the video freezes and wont load passed Leben talking.

Iv tried Firefox & IE now!

JJayoo

The ref was asking brock if he wanted to stop, he said no, so why should it have been stopped? He took a lot of hits, but came into the second round with a big dopey smile on his face. Anyhow will be interesting to see who carwin fights next

rovert

pablohoney87 wrote: »

I have watched the presser,
Whats the point ive missed exactly? You cannot argue that absorbing punishment until your opponent gasses out counts as intelligently defending yourself.

No blocking punches and attempting to kick Carwin away along with informing the ref that he was ok.

Plastikman_eire wrote: »

(With that said, does getting the **** kicked out of you than subbing a defenseless opponent, really merit the fanboy victory laps that we are seeing?)

It does when the brainthrust of the forum heavily questioned his chin and called him one dimensional with serious doubts he wants to improve.

MarkJD wrote: »

Ye every soruce i find is the one hosted from the UFC website, i cant get the video to load passed when Leben starts talking. You didnt have this trouble? The buffer goes passed that point but the video freezes and wont load passed Leben talking.

Iv tried Firefox & IE now!

Sorry dude then but it is worth watching in full for all the fighters. I hope it gets re-upped for you. Must be tonnes of web traffic.

MrStuffins

pablohoney87 wrote: »

I have watched the presser,
Whats the point ive missed exactly? You cannot argue that absorbing punishment until your opponent gasses out counts as intelligently defending yourself.

Nope, but intelligently defending yourself is.... intelligently defending yourself. At no point was Brock out, he always had his wits about him, he took a lot of punishment in bursts but then a ot of punishment on his arms too and signaled multiple times to the ref that he was still in the fight.

rovert

MrStuffins wrote: »

Nope, but intelligently defending yourself is.... intelligently defending yourself. At no point was Brock out, he always had his wits about him, he took a lot of punishment in bursts but then a ot of punishment on his arms too and signaled multiple times to the ref that he was still in the fight.

Exactly Lesnar was getting pounded on for three and a half minutes, yet he looked like the fresher man at the start of round 2. It was an EXCELLENT non-stoppage.

pablohoney87

JJayoo wrote: »

The ref was asking brock if he wanted to stop, he said no, so why should it have been stopped?

Ive seen plenty of fights stopped while the fighter was displaying tho the ref he was ok. Best example i think is jason tan vs don hyun kim. I know once im still conscience im never going to say to the ref to stop the fight when im being punched. It doesnt mean the ref shouldnt stop a fight.

chordtype

MrStuffins wrote: »

MMA is a combination of so many elements, and cardio is a major one.

Everyone saying "He only lost because he gassed" might as well come out after every KO finish in MMA and say "He only lost because he got punched really hard and was knocked into a coma"

Gassed or not, with a guy the size of Lesnar on top of you even if you weigh the same it is still gonna be difficult to get him off be it in the first minute of the fight or the last minute.

MrStuffins

pablohoney87 wrote: »

Ive seen plenty of fights stopped while the fighter was displaying tho the ref he was ok. Best example i think is jason tan vs don hyun kim. I know once im still conscience im never going to say to the ref to stop the fight when im being punched. It doesnt mean the ref shouldnt stop a fight.

You keep making reference to past fights! This is useless! Ever hear the term "2 wrongs don't make a right?".

Yes, saying your ok doesn't necessarily mean that thr fight shouldn't be stopped, but i think in this case it was shown to be the right decision. There wasn't a bother on Brock when the round ended and he came out looking MUCH fresher than Carwin.

pablohoney87

chordtype wrote: »

Gassed or not, with a guy the size of Lesnar on top of you even if you weigh the same it is still gonna be difficult to get him off be it in the first minute of the fight or the last minute.

Not if you look for an underhook like most wrestlers and bjj brown belts would. It was on offer for a long time.

MarkJD

rovert wrote: »

Sorry dude then but it is worth watching in full for all the fighters. I hope it gets re-upped for you. Must be tonnes of web traffic.

Ye ill just try again late, its a good 45 minutes long so will be interesting to see it!

Plastikman_eire

rovert wrote: »

It does when the brainthrust of the forum heavily questioned his chin and called him one dimensional with serious doubts he wants to improve.


.

Dont think anyone questioned his chin, only saying that it hadnt been tested(imo a head and neck the size of lesnars would need to be hit with a sledge hammer to ko him) rather they questioned Brocks distaste for getting hit.

That question has been answered. Good chin, hates getting hit.

Still a BIG question mark over Brocks skill set too. If anything more then before this fight, we knew his striking was poor, but now I questioning his wrestling too. Carwin just shrugged off Lesnars takedown attempt in the 1st like it was nothing.

I'm impressed that he showed the fight IQ to lock up that arm triangle, but carwin handed it to him on a plate, so im not sure if it tells us much about Brocks submission accumen.

MrStuffins

Originally from: MMAJunkie.com

LAS VEGAS – While the UFC on Saturday night awarded $75,000 "Fight Night" bonuses to six different fighters, UFC president Dana White said there's more money on the way.

This could be especially good news for fighters such as welterweight Chris Lytle, who fell short on the evening's "Submission of the Night" money when heavyweight champion Brock Lesnar shocked the world with an arm-triangle choke victory.

Some MMA fans felt Lesnar's massive payday was reward enough, but White believes guaranteed money can't play a role in who gets the night's bonuses.

Besides, after what the UFC boss called the "greatest night of fights" he's ever seen, more money is on the way.

"Whoever deserves the check deserves the check," White told MMAjunkie.com (www.mmajunkie.com). "If anybody disagrees that Brock Lesnar was the 'Submission of the Night,' please speak now; you're out of your mind.

"Nobody expected him to win by submission."

Of course, no one really expected Lytle to win by straight armbar while simultaneously holding an inverted triangle choke position from the mount, either.

Chris Leben's third-round submission win over Yoshihiro Akiyama and Stephan Bonnar's frenzied TKO of Krzysztof Soszynski were each rightfully awarded the evening's dual "Fight of the Night" bonuses.

Then again, it seems a shame that Ricardo Romero and Seth Petrzuelli would walk away empty-handed after their back-and-forth two-round battle.

White said not to worry. Those who put it all on the line would not be walking home unhappy.

"What I expect of these guys is I expect these guys to go out and perform," White said. "Let me tell you this, and I mean it, we're writing some [expletive] checks tonight. We're writing checks – more than what you heard here tonight. Guys are going to get well taken care of tonight.

"Tonight was the greatest night of fights I've ever seen. There's going to be some happy [expletives] skipping out of the MGM tonight, I'll tell you that right now."

Man, i really hope Chris Lytle gets a big cheque! What a fight and what a Sub!

rovert

Plastikman_eire wrote: »

Dont think anyone questioned his chin, only saying that it hadnt been tested(imo a head and neck the size of lesnars would need to be hit with a sledge hammer to ko him) rather they questioned Brocks distaste for getting hit.

That question has been answered. Good chin, hates getting hit.

Still a BIG question mark over Brocks skill set too. If anything more then before this fight, we knew his striking was poor, but now I questioning his wrestling too. Carwin just shrugged off Lesnars takedown attempt in the 1st like it was nothing.

I'm impressed that he showed the fight IQ to lock up that arm triangle, but carwin handed it to him on a plate, so im not sure if it tells us much about Brocks submission accumen.

I respect your opinion but I kind of read things differently. In context he was against what is at least billed as the strongest striker evers in the UFC. So some perspective is warranted. His stand up certionly needs work he has recognised that and recently brought in a new boxing coach to fix it. Shocking I know to some on here.

MrStuffins

i think the polorisation that Brock brings to MMA fans has kind of diverted the discussion away from what was probably the best UFC card of all time.

I struggle to remember a better Pound for Pound card and i've seen every UFC event!

After this card, and the WEC 51 card which was also incredible, Dana must be the happiest guy around!

Sid_Justice

MrStuffins wrote: »

i think the polorisation that Brock brings to MMA fans has kind of diverted the discussion away from what was probably the best UFC card of all time.

I struggle to remember a better Pound for Pound card and i've seen every UFC event!

After this card, and the WEC 51 card which was also incredible, Dana must be the happiest guy around!

ever seen any pride fights?

pablohoney87

MrStuffins wrote: »

i think the polorisation that Brock brings to MMA fans has kind of diverted the discussion away from what was probably the best UFC card of all time.

I struggle to remember a better Pound for Pound card and i've seen every UFC event!

After this card, and the WEC 51 card which was also incredible, Dana must be the happiest guy around!

Agreed. Awesome night of fights. Some very technical battles as well as good old fasioned brawls. Ill see some of you at cage contender this month and some at rush. As for the rest of yas ill talk to you the next time Brock is fighting.
Later;)

MrStuffins

Sid_Justice wrote: »

ever seen any pride fights?

What's Pride?

Sid_Justice

Some pro wrestling event in japan rovert is always going on about

MrStuffins

Sid_Justice wrote: »

Some pro wrestling event in japan rovert is always going on about

Never heard of it!

rovert

MrStuffins wrote: »

What's Pride?

Where Fedor used to fight high level fighters

Sid_Justice

You should check it out, some great fights in it. Zuluzinho, Kazuyuki Fujita vs. Eldar Kurtanidze, Mark hunt.

MrStuffins

Sid_Justice wrote: »

You should check it out, some great fights in it. Zuluzinho, Kazuyuki Fujita vs. Eldar Kurtanidze, Mark hunt.

Never heard of any of those guys!

And who is this "Fedor" you speak of, he sounds interesting!

Sid_Justice

Lads, stop yissur trolling, serious thread is serious business.

MrStuffins

Sid_Justice wrote: »

Lads, stop yissur trolling, serious thread is serious business.

Considering you're the self-proclaimed authority on all things MMA, it kinda went off topic when you left.

Damn the rest of us and our inferior knowledge of the sport!

Sid_Justice

MrStuffins, life is simple. Protestants go to Protestant Churches, Catholics go to Catholic Churches. If you want to worship Lesnar go to Pro-Wrestling forum, if you want to worship Fedor you can stay here. Simple as really.

MrStuffins

Sid_Justice wrote: »

MrStuffins, life is simple. Protestants go to Protestant Churches, Catholics go to Catholic Churches. If you want to worship Lesnar go to Pro-Wrestling forum, if you want to worship Fedor you can stay here. Simple as really.

It seems it's not only life that is "simple".

The fact that you filter MMA down to "You're either a Brock fan or a Fedor fan" shows just how ignorant you really are.

As far as your analogy goes, i'm an Athiest, where does this leave me with regards to your analogy? Exactly where i am in relation to MMA. its a pretty apt analogy.

Also, if you knew me, you would know my views on both Brock and Fedor. Just because i disagree with you, doesn't mean i "worship" Brock. Why don;t you try reading the posts, or are you too blinded by your complete ignorance?

Sid_Justice

I'll try to get to know you better so, let's be facebook friends.

MrStuffins

Sid_Justice wrote: »

I'll try to get to know you better so, let's be facebook friends.

I love how when everyone blows your arguments out of the water you try to be funny.

It's obvious your knowledge and wit are well matched.

callaway92

That could well go down as THE best UFC card ever. it was better than UFC84.

Absolutely thrilled Brock won, i've been a fan of him since I was 13 when he joined the WWF. I've never been so emotionally involved in a fight before, so for that reason I marked out like a 12 year old when John Cena is on t.v, when Brock won.

chopperbyrne

I thought the fight was going to be stopped several times in the first round, but each time Brock did something to show the ref he was still in the fight (kicked him away, grabbed a limb, covered up correctly) and not once did he go limp or look like he was out cold.

He then recovered well and got back to his feet. When it showed Carwin in his corner between rounds I knew the fight was over as he looked exhausted and Brock looked ready to go.

Good technique on the sub and I'm looking forward to the Brock/Cain fight.

mailburner

mailburner wrote: »

as much as i want carwin to win i think thats a great bet
which is why i put leben in with sotir and solzk msyelf to boost the odds

id rather not bet on it myself

i think brock has an iron chin and i havent seen the guy
even flinch when others have connected
think it would take something special to knock him out

i hope im wrong


other than that i like

lytle
grove

not sure why bonnar is still in the ufc
must be the first fight with griffin thats keeping him there

i was really sad to see the likes of jardine dropped myself
felt so bad for the guy

cant seem to make money on this at all despite getting most
of my picks right
couldnt see bonnar winning myself

theres no knocking out brock after that

i think the ref was right not to stop it
he was always conscious during the onslaught but
man was i shouting for a stoppage

lesnar will face a different beast in velasquez and i think
this will be his biggest test and should he face a similiar
mauling by velasquez in the first round the difference is
that velasquez will do the same in the second round.
Theres wont be any gassing and should he suceed in
beating velasquez then its fair to say hes all but cleaned
out the division and apart from junior dos santos after that
its hard to see anyone pushing brock.

Fall_Guy

MrStuffins wrote: »

I love how when everyone blows your arguments out of the water you try to be funny.

It's obvious your knowledge and wit are well matched.

to be fair, he has been posting fairly obviously tongue in cheek comments since approximately 13:54 and you have continued to take them seriously, so you're both as bad as each other

Have to say that was a really enjoyable event, good exciting fights and some excellent finishes throughout the card. I would have liked to have seen Lytle get the Sub of the night bonus for his inverted triangle/straight armbar on Brown though, unlucky that he pulled off such a great sub on the night brock finished the main event in the most unlikely way possible!

MrStuffins

callaway92 wrote: »

That could well go down as THE best UFC card ever. it was better than UFC84.

Absolutely thrilled Brock won, i've been a fan of him since I was 13 when he joined the WWF. I've never been so emotionally involved in a fight before, so for that reason I marked out like a 12 year old when John Cena is on t.v, when Brock won.

SSHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



Apparently that means you're not a real MMA fan around here. Quick... Ninja edit... i don't think anyone noticed :P

Propane Nightmare

This thread is an even bigger mess than the one after UFC 112.

callaway92

MrStuffins wrote: »

SSHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



Apparently that means you're not a real MMA fan around here. Quick... Ninja edit... i don't think anyone noticed :P

no it doesn't

MrStuffins

callaway92 wrote: »

no it doesn't

Sorry dude, i was being sarcastic :P

MrStuffins

Propane Nightmare wrote: »

This thread is an even bigger mess than the one after UFC 112.

I agree, on a night where possibly the best UFC card of all time took place, there's nothing but hate for one of the victors!

If Brock hadn't been fighting and that Leben v Sexiyama fight had been the main event, this would be such a different thread!

Forest Master

I love the way cowzerp has completely avoided replying to my post about him claiming the ref was in on the "fix" - but he still continues to read the thread & thank all the anti-Brock posts that agree with his disproven opinion.

rovert

Forest Master wrote: »

I love the way cowzerp has completely avoided replying to my post about him claiming the ref was in on the "fix" - but he still continues to read the thread & thank all the anti-Brock posts that agree with his disproven opinion.

Join the cue. I dont think at this stage you will get a reasonable reply.

SDTimeout

I believe it's called the moral high ground.

Except it's a very hard ground to travel when you are infact wrong.

MrStuffins

Forest Master wrote: »

I love the way cowzerp has completely avoided replying to my post about him claiming the ref was in on the "fix" - but he still continues to read the thread & thank all the anti-Brock posts that agree with his disproven opinion.

I would also like to read a reply.

Forest Master

Forest Master wrote: »

LOL - come back when you have a clue. And being a fighter/trainer yourself doesn't mean you have a clue, BTW.

Rosenthal told them both in the back that if either were in trouble, he'd tell them 3 times to improve their position or he'd stop it - each time he told Brock, he moved & improved. <<< These are the facts.
Brock survived & weathered the storm with covers + a good chin - he wasn't KO'd, he moved when he was told by the ref, and he could feel Carwin's punches were getting weaker. Get over it.

The fact that you think the Nevada State Athletic Commission who sanctioned the event, and whom the ref was appointed by, was told "don't stop it if Brock was in trouble" shows how much of a fanboy & a Sherdogger YOU are, mate. UFC even trying to suggest such a thing to a ref or athletic commission, with so much money on the line from betting alone, would have serious legal repercussions & ramifications on the whole sport - it simply didn't happen. Believe what you want, no matter how ridiculous & biased. Brock weathered the storm & Carwin gassed - that's a fact, no matter how you try to spin it, & no matter what deluded conspiracy theories you come up with.
Did you say the same thing last week when Jan Finney was getting battered, but was still responsive?

I suppose I'll get a warning now because my opinion differs to yours...

I have no opinion on the reffing but I would add that just because it was a Nevada SAC sanctioned fight means nothing,boxing is ridiculously corrupt and thats sanctioned.

MrStuffins

Lane Glamorous Pest wrote: »

I have no opinion on the reffing but I would add that just because it was a Nevada SAC sanctioned fight means nothing,boxing is ridiculously corrupt and thats sanctioned.

But if you're going to make a wild accusation, at least try to back it up with some substance!

rovert

Lane Glamorous Pest why would Zuffa risk losing their gaming license? Explain that please or STFU.

rovert

rovert wrote: »

Lane Glamorous Pest why would Zuffa risk losing their gaming license? Explain that please or STFU.

I never said I thought the reffing was corrupt,I specifically said I had no opinion. ( If you pushed me for one I would say It was fine)

It is stupid to dismiss someone making accusations about reffing though,by stating that it was a sanctioned fight.
Boxing is corrupt as hell and their has been dodgy refs in sanctioned fights in boxing.
Maybe you need to cool your jets and read posts properly before mouthing off.