UFC 116 Discussion ****SPOILERS INSIDE****

rovert

Forest Master wrote: »

Nah, they had Marcus Davis as a backup. So they didn't need to work that particular fight.

Even UFC's Paddies are fake :mad:

Unique User Name wrote: »

I'm a little bemused that people believe the fight should have been stopped. I believe Brock defended himself well enough and moved as necessary when the ref said so. But much more importantly he got back to his feet before the end of the first round. If he was unable to continue this simply would not have happened. Again in the second round regardless of Carwin gassing, Brock had enough in him to take him down and grind out the submission. Hardly evidence of a man who should have been stopped.

I know right, I genuinely cant understand the opposite position. It makes NO sense. The referee showed superior judgment here.

MrStuffins

rovert wrote: »

Even UFC's Paddies are fake :mad:

That's why i'm heading to DREAM for for some REAL Irish!

Sid_Justice

I have to hold my hands up and admit I had a big part in turning this thread into a megadisaster troll fest but the degree of circle jerking and spiral debate is absolutely staggering. Hope we can get 50 more lulzy posts to get to the 1000 but after this thread should be locked and all those pro-wrestling geeks banned

Whole thing has gotten out of control and I don't even know where the sarcasm and irony ends and real posts begin, it's about 500 times worse than sherdog. Look at all the same guys thanking each others posts.

I don't like brock lesnar and I never will. Even if he cures cancer I'll still think he's a douche with a penis tattoo. Not going to apologise for that.

MrStuffins

Sid_Justice wrote: »

I don't like brock lesnar and I never will. Even if he cures cancer I'll still think he's a douche with a penis tattoo. Not going to apologise for that.

And you let your hatred for him get in the way of your judgement of his fights. And then troll here about it.

Nothing you say from now on should really be taken with seriousnes sin fairness.

Most MMA fans can look at things objectively

Sid_Justice

MrStuffins wrote: »

Most MMA fans can look at things objectively

really? do they receive some specialist training?

pablohoney87

The majority of actual fighters ive talked to or at least people who train say it should have been stopped. This isnt pro wrestling where the referee will raise their hand and let it drop 3 times. You get one chance in MMA. If your not in the fight your not in the fight.

Sid_Justice

Hey Pablo my auld buddy, tell me at which point, if you have it downloaded, you'd stop the fight. I've rewatched it now twice and I don't think I would have stopped it. At the ~2:00 on the clock bit I was closest.

MrStuffins

Sid_Justice wrote: »

really? do they receive some specialist training?

:rolleyes:

Go back to sleep!

MrStuffins

pablohoney87 wrote: »

The majority of actual fighters ive talked to or at least people who train say it should have been stopped. This isnt pro wrestling where the referee will raise their hand and let it drop 3 times. You get one chance in MMA. If your not in the fight your not in the fight.

Luckily Brock was always in the fight and the non-stoppage was justified by Brock's comeback then isn't it?

Sid_Justice

MrStuffins wrote: »

:rolleyes:

Go back to sleep!

No, you're full of **** like. you're saying there is some kind of 'typical mma fan' out there? There isn't. It's like saying, most premier league football fans can objectively look at a world cup football match. Really? can they? Being objective is a seriously difficult position to remain in, that's why we pay Judges and independent adjudicators to do their jobs.

pablohoney87

Hey "Sid",
After brock went down i felt he was still in it some what. When carwin managed to posture up and started with the elbows and all brock did was cover up is when i would have stopped it

Sid_Justice

MrStuffins wrote: »

Luckily Brock was always in the fight and the non-stoppage was justified by Brock's comeback then isn't it?

See this is what you don't get. how would you feel if Brock Tapped Carwin with the choke, Brock released it and then carwin got on top without the ref calling the stop. and carwin went on to finish, would you say well done to Carwin for getting out of the hole and finishing the fight?

Or how about a guy get's knocked out in the first 5 seconds of a fight, he sits on a stool, have a drink of water, and then gets up and the ref restarrts the figt and he goes onto win this time? Does that mean the comeback is justified.

In a very arguable but fair opinion, that fight should have been over.

Sid_Justice

pablohoney87 wrote: »

Hey "Sid",
After brock went down i felt he was still in it some what. When carwin managed to posture up and started with the elbows and all brock did was cover up is when i would have stopped it

That's a fine interpretation. But I felt there was just always something that was keeping Carwin in the fight, he was twisting just enough and cowering just the least amount to not to have to stop the fight.

MrStuffins

Sid_Justice wrote: »

No, you're full of **** like. you're saying there is some kind of 'typical mma fan' out there? There isn't. It's like saying, most premier league football fans can objectively look at a world cup football match. Really? can they? Being objective is a seriously difficult position to remain in, that's why we pay Judges and independent adjudicators to do their jobs.

Most MMA fans i know personally can look at things objectively.

In fact, looking at things objectively in general in life is a pretty basic skill to have. it allows you to recognise, for example, that a footballer (as per your example) is a really good footballer, despite what your personal feelings towards them are.

I liken it to a music-snob, who will hear the latest (for example) Lady GaGa song, say "Wow, that's a great song. Amazing, who sings that?" And upon hearing it is Lady GaGa saying "Oh, no i change my mind. It's a crap song".



Also, i'm feeding trolls here. Must stop that!

Plastikman_eire

MrStuffins wrote: »

Luckily Brock was always in the fight and the non-stoppage was justified by Brock's comeback then isn't it?

Brock wasnt in that fight lol. Carwin beat himself.

MrStuffins

Sid_Justice wrote: »

See this is what you don't get. how would you feel if Brock Tapped Carwin with the choke, Brock released it and then carwin got on top without the ref calling the stop. and carwin went on to finish, would you say well done to Carwin for getting out of the hole and finishing the fight?

Or how about a guy get's knocked out in the first 5 seconds of a fight, he sits on a stool, have a drink of water, and then gets up and the ref restarrts the figt and he goes onto win this time? Does that mean the comeback is justified.

In a very arguable but fair opinion, that fight should have been over.

Thats just a completely silly post TBH!

(Last time i feed the troll)

MrStuffins

Plastikman_eire wrote: »

Brock wasnt in that fight lol. Carwin beat himself.

jeez... that was silly of him eh?

rovert

Plastikman_eire wrote: »

Brock wasnt in that fight lol. Carwin beat himself.

Hold on I thought the ref did.

Im confused.

Cowzerp still hasnt explained this:

The ref weasling out saying he'd give 3 warnings?

Weasling out by telling the two fighters BEFORE the fight. :eek:

Sid_Justice

According to Carwin his whole body was in cramp in the second round and he could hardly move. He couldn't defend the take down. He basically see the arm triangle up himself and never tried to get out of the position. I would assume Carwin knows bloody full well what an arm triangle set up looks like but was just so bloody tired and cramped he didn't do anything to stop it.

cowzerp

Right, i've spoke to about 20 MMA fighters today and only 1 has disagreed with me that it should have been stopped in the 1st round, most feel fair play to brock but that the ref did not do his job and the gassing out of Carwin was the reason Brock won.

On the other side, on here many MMA fans And even more Pro wrestling fans think it was fine, easy know they where never in the situation of having someone pound on them.

I'm out of this as it's just boring at this stage and my opinions have been aired and reaired do to requests!!

keep it civil from here on out as some people are getting very personal about there answers or questions.

Rovert im done with you here, your just shiit stirring.

rovert

cowzerp wrote: »

Right, i've spoke to about 20 MMA fighters today and only 1 has disagreed with me that it should have been stopped in the 1st round, most feel fair play to brock but that the ref did not do his job and the gassing out of Carwin was the reason Brock won.

On the other side, on here many MMA fans And even more Pro wrestling fans think it was fine, easy know they where never in the situation of having someone pound on them.

Snore the never been in the ring card. At least Ive a better grasp on the rules and regulations than you seem to do.

cowzerp wrote: »

Rovert im done with you here, your just shiit stirring.

Im **** stirring im talking about the actual established facts of situation?

You are the person who said that the fight was fixed.

Ive always thought highly as a mod and a member of the Irish MMA community from what I read. But seriously dude you are totally wacked here.

MrStuffins

cowzerp wrote: »

Right, i've spoke to about 20 MMA fighters today and only 1 has disagreed with me that it should have been stopped in the 1st round, most feel fair play to brock but that the ref did not do his job and the gassing out of Carwin was the reason Brock won.

On the other side, on here many MMA fans And even more Pro wrestling fans think it was fine, easy know they where never in the situation of having someone pound on them.

I'm out of this as it's just boring at this stage and my opinions have been aired and reaired do to requests!!

keep it civil from here on out as some people are getting very personal about there answers or questions.

Rovert im done with you here, your just shiit stirring.

I'm disappointed that you keep claiming things but wont address the answers you're getting here.

You're accusing refs of fixing fights with absolutely nothing to back it up. You aren't even attempting to back anything up. Is that where this forum is going?

Am i allowed now to accuse you and others of illegal activity and not back it up at all? Can i now say "I saw Cowzerp fight and he had been taking performance enhancing substances", not back anything up but be within my rights to make the claim?

Forest Master

cowzerp wrote: »

Right, i've spoke to about 20 MMA fighters today and only 1 has disagreed with me

They weren't just pupils in your club by any chance, who'll all just agree with their trainer regardless?
Or you actually called and/or met up with 20 MMA fighters?


Actually - forget the answer - it still doesn't negate the FACTS that have been presented numerous times & contradict your claims. Best to ignore the FACTS though, eh?

Sid_Justice

I'm actually lost with the 3 inquisitors here, what are you looking for?

cowzerp

rovert wrote: »

Im **** stirring my talking about the actual established facts of situation?

You are the person who said that the fight was fixed.

Ive always thought highly as a mod and a member of the Irish MMA community from what I read. But seriously dude you are totally wacked here.

I never said it was Fixed, stop twisting my words, i said that the ref might have been acting in his carreer interests, anyway why is my opinion so offensive to you?

get over it-not everyone has to agree with you and it's only my opinion, im not claiming facts, but i do know the rules and Brock Was not intelligently defending himself.

Sid_Justice

If you don't understand that in the UFC there is a precedent for stopping fights prior to knockout you haven't watched enough UFC. If that was an undercard fight and it was stopped at the 2 minute remaining point on the clock I don't think there would have been anyone claiming foul play or unfair stoppage.

Do any of the three amigos dispute the above?

Plastikman_eire

rovert wrote: »

Hold on I thought the ref did.

Im confused.

While the fight should have been stopped in the 1st, carwin should have either made sure he had the cardio to maintain that output, or paced himself.

What do you think would have happened if Carwin came out for rd 2 fresh as a daisy? Another 10-8 round is what.

Brock won because of carwin's failings, rather then his own strength's.


.

Sid_Justice

to you use a slightly over used moniker from the last few weeks, Carwin clutched defeat from the jaws of victory.

rovert

cowzerp wrote: »

I never said it was Fixed, stop twisting my words, i said that the ref might have been acting in his carreer interests, anyway why is my opinion so offensive to you?

You are changing around what you originally said here.

cowzerp wrote: »

Iget over it-not everyone has to agree with you and it's only my opinion, im not claiming facts, but i do know the rules and Brock Was not intelligently defending himself.

He was intelligently defending himself for all the reasons posted you never addressed or chose to ignore in this thread. You are showing a real petty streak.

Plastikman_eire

Question for Rovert, MrStuffins and Forest Master; What is your opinion on the Cyborg v Finney stoppage?

chopperbyrne

cowzerp wrote: »

I never said it was Fixed, stop twisting my words, i said that the ref might have been acting in his carreer interests, anyway why is my opinion so offensive to you?

get over it-not everyone has to agree with you and it's only my opinion, im not claiming facts, but i do know the rules and Brock Was not intelligently defending himself.

Yes you did, right here:

cowzerp wrote: »

The big fight was a joke IMO, the ref must have been briefed to not stop the fight if Brock was losing unless he had absolutely no other alternative because cowering on the ground and not trying to advance position is not intelligently defending yourself in my eyes

MrStuffins

Plastikman_eire wrote: »

Question for Rovert, MrStuffins and Forest Master; What is your opinion on the Cyborg v Finney stoppage?

Wrong thread. And a completely different fight.

Irrelivant.

rovert

Plastikman_eire wrote: »

Question for Rovert, MrStuffins and Forest Master; What is your opinion on the Cyborg v Finney stoppage?

People are struggling with refereeing in the Brock fight dont confuse the issue. Make another thread or dig up the Strikeforce thread.

cowzerp

rovert wrote: »

You are changing around what you originally said here.



He was intelligently defending himself for all the reasons posted you never addressed or chose to ignore in this thread. You are showing a real petty streak.

No im not, i never said it was fixed, i said he may have been encouraged originally but either way they mean the same thing, but either way he knew how important a Brock win is to the UFC so maybe that amswers why he did not stop it.

He was not intelligently defending himself IMO, covering your head like you where hiding from the boogey man is not intelligent defense, it's begging for a stoppage with minimum damage, as i already said-the ref could have stopped it when brock ran away covering up as it was more or less a submission in itself just like lying on the ground the way he was.

PS. dont keep saying how petty i am etc because i dont agree with you and you likewise-your the 1 acting like you just won and giving it the whole i told you so atitude. im just saying my opinion on the fight.

rovert

cowzerp wrote: »

No im not, i never said it was fixed, i said he may have been encouraged originally but either way they mean the same thing, but either way he knew how important a Brock win is to the UFC so maybe that amswers why he did not stop it.

He was not intelligently defending himself IMO, covering your head like you where hiding from the boogey man is not intelligent defense, it's begging for a stoppage with minimum damage, as i already said-the ref could have stopped it when brock ran away covering up as it was more or less a submission in itself just like lying on the ground the way he was.

PS. dont keep saying how petty i am etc because i dont agree with you and you likewise-your the 1 acting like you just won and giving it the whole i told you so atitude. im just saying my opinion on the fight.

Read post #982

Im saying you are petty because you wont acknowledge what you previously said or the established facts of the matter. Not because you disagree with me.

Plastikman_eire

Wrong thread. And a completely different fight.

Irrelivant.

rovert wrote: »

People are struggling with refereeing in the Brock fight dont confuse the issue. Make another thread or dig up the Strikeforce thread.

Now now girls, dont be so touchy...

You 3 clearly feel Brock was intelligently defending, and that's why it shouldnt have been stopped?

I would like to know if you feel that Jan Finney was intelligently defending herself (given that she was employing the 'same curl into a ball and take the shots' defense that Brock used).

MrStuffins

cowzerp wrote: »

No im not, i never said it was fixed, i said he may have been encouraged originally but either way they mean the same thing, but either way he knew how important a Brock win is to the UFC so maybe that amswers why he did not stop it.

He was not intelligently defending himself IMO, covering your head like you where hiding from the boogey man is not intelligent defense, it's begging for a stoppage with minimum damage, as i already said-the ref could have stopped it when brock ran away covering up as it was more or less a submission in itself just like lying on the ground the way he was.

PS. dont keep saying how petty i am etc because i dont agree with you and you likewise-your the 1 acting like you just won and giving it the whole i told you so atitude. im just saying my opinion on the fight.

MrStuffins wrote: »

I'm disappointed that you keep claiming things but wont address the answers you're getting here.

You're accusing refs of fixing fights with absolutely nothing to back it up. You aren't even attempting to back anything up. Is that where this forum is going?

Am i allowed now to accuse you and others of illegal activity and not back it up at all? Can i now say "I saw Cowzerp fight and he had been taking performance enhancing substances", not back anything up but be within my rights to make the claim?

.

cowzerp

chopperbyrne wrote: »

Yes you did, right here:

i never said fixed, do you seriously think ref's are not briefed on these fights, i would be amazed if there not warned how important this is to the UFC, and they certainly know who makes it important and why- $

again, my opinion was the ref was wrong or there was ulterior motives, carreer affecting ones maybe.

Unique User Name

cowzerp wrote: »

Right, i've spoke to about 20 MMA fighters today and only 1 has disagreed with me that it should have been stopped in the 1st round, most feel fair play to brock but that the ref did not do his job and the gassing out of Carwin was the reason Brock won.

On the other side, on here many MMA fans And even more Pro wrestling fans think it was fine, easy know they where never in the situation of having someone pound on them.

I have to say there seems to be a general hatred amongst mma fighters that I've spoken to for Brock Lesnar. No matter how he won people would have disputed it. There seems to be some sort of snobbery as he began his career in pro wrestling. If you're a fan of Lesnar people automatically assume you're a pro wrestling fan who doesn't know anything about mma. I've been a fan of mma myself since the early days and have been training for the past year or so. I know the hard work that goes into training and I know how pissed I'd be if I had a fight stopped prematurely.

MrStuffins

Plastikman_eire wrote: »

Now now girls, dont be so touchy...

You 3 clearly feel Brock was intelligently defending, and that's why it shouldnt have been stopped?

I would like to know if you feel that Jan Finney was intelligently defending herself (given that she was employing the 'same curl into a ball and take the shots' defense that Brock used).

I gathered that.

It is a different fight.

It is a different thread.

It is irrelivant!

pablohoney87

Plastikman_eire wrote: »

Now now girls, dont be so touchy...

You 3 clearly feel Brock was intelligently defending, and that's why it shouldnt have been stopped?

I would like to know if you feel that Jan Finney was intelligently defending herself (given that she was employing the 'same curl into a ball and take the shots' defense that Brock used).

Adress his point I say. You know who you are. Stop being petty and address Plastikmans point:p

pablohoney87

MrStuffins wrote: »

I gathered that.

It is a different fight.

It is a different thread.

It is irrelivant!

Similar subject matter on a referee stoppage.

rovert

cowzerp wrote: »

i never said fixed, do you seriously think ref's are not briefed on these fights, i would be amazed if there not warned how important this is to the UFC, and they certainly know who makes it important and why- $

again, my opinion was the ref was wrong or there was ulterior motives, carreer affecting ones maybe.

You did say it was fixed towards Lesnar's favour with this quote:

The big fight was a joke IMO, the ref must have been briefed to not stop the fight if Brock was losing unless he had absolutely no other alternative because cowering on the ground and not trying to advance position is not intelligently defending yourself in my eyes

You didnt even frame it as opinion you framed it as fact.

MrStuffins

pablohoney87 wrote: »

Similar subject matter on a referee stoppage.

Your entire contribution to the thread seems to be "well this happened in X versus Y, so therefore this should have been done" so i'm not surprised you're in support of derailing the thread here by talking about different fights.

Every fight is different.

chopperbyrne

cowzerp wrote: »

i never said fixed, do you seriously think ref's are not briefed on these fights, i would be amazed if there not warned how important this is to the UFC, and they certainly know who makes it important and why- $

again, my opinion was the ref was wrong or there was ulterior motives, carreer affecting ones maybe.

You didn't use the exact word "fixed", but you clearly implied just that.

The UFC have no say in the referees. Did you even watch the post-ppv press conference. Dana said he was shocked to see Rosenthal get the main event as he expected Herb Dean to be reffing it.

There is no doubt that the UFC would rather have Brock as champion because he's hugely marketable and does great PPV numbers, but they have no sway with NSAC referees at all or Steve Mazagatti wouldn't ever ref a UFC fight.

You are making wild claims with no evidence to support them and are arguing against people who have provided evidence.

cowzerp

Unique User Name wrote: »

I have to say there seems to be a general hatred amongst mma fighters that I've spoken to for Brock Lesnar.

I dont hate Brock, i think the man is a beast-a 1 dimensional beast who's main asset is strenght and weight then wrestling and against an equally big wrestler he fell short-till carwin gassed himself out.

The hate is probably because his attitude in previous fights and his getting a title shot very early because his name.

Plastikman_eire

MrStuffins wrote: »

I gathered that.

It is a different fight.

It is a different thread.

It is irrelivant!

Ok, let me make it relevant.

You and rovert are Brock Lesnar fanboys, and I feel you are arguing that no stoppage was merited only because you are swinging from Lesnars nuts.

If this isnt the case, and you feel every fighter should be given the opportunity that Brock was given, then surely you feel that finney should have been kept in that cage until she was removed completely from consciousness?

rovert

Plastikman_eire wrote: »

Ok, let me make it relevant.

You and rovert are Brock Lesnar fanboys, and I feel you are arguing that no stoppage was merited only because you are swinging from Lesnars nuts.

If this isnt the case, and you feel every fighter should be given the opportunity that Brock was given, then surely you feel that finney should have been kept in that cage until she was removed completely from consciousness?

Stop with the name calling

amacachi

cowzerp wrote: »

He was not intelligently defending himself IMO

I really don't know how someone can say this, he blocked or effectively blocked most of Carwin's shots. If just throwing thumps over and over is considered intelligently attacking then blocking most of those is surely intelligently defending? I'm sure the referee had a better view than I had on a 42 inch TV so I'll take his word for it as well. Also it looked to me that Carwin gassed well before they stood up and most of his offence was very ineffective after the initial shots.

cowzerp

chopperbyrne wrote: »

You are making wild claims with no evidence to support them and are arguing against people who have provided evidence.

where is all this evidence that you's keep talking about? the fact that the ref came out saying the 3 warning stuff just shows that people feel he let it go on to far.

there is none, the rules of MMA are set-i know them, ref's cant pick and choose them and have to take each fight as it happens, brock done everything but verbally tap in the 1st round, when fighters have to tap due to strikes it's down to terrible reffing, most fighters just wont tap and trust that the refs will look after them.