Is anyone else depressed at the thought of watching Ireland play again under Trap?

gonedrinking

This world cup has shown defensive tactics will only get you so far, you can only ride your luck for so long before you get badly exposed by a good attacking team. Traps tactics of parking the team bus in front of goal and hoping to score whenever we get a set piece, was badly shown up in the world cup qualifiers when we struggled against the mighty football superpowers of Bulgaria and Montenegro. Trap also didn't install any belief in the players that they could win against teams like Italy and France (who have been exposed as very poor teams now), instead we were in survival mode for those matches (apart from the last one which we had to win).

This world cup has also shown you don't have to have a side full of great individual players to do well, as long as you're willing to actually play, to pass the ball and get players forward you can do well.

But nothing is going to change as long as trap remains in charge and we can look forward to another 4 years of mediocre football, defensive negative tactics, scoreless draws, 1 nil losses and the odd 1 nil win, and dissappointment as we fail to qualify for yet another world cup, probably won't qualify for the euros either. Its all so depressing.

davyjose

No

veXual

The reason Ireland play mediocre football is because we are a mediocre side.

Traps done a good job thus far and should be allowed to continue.

Would you be saying this had we reached the world cup - I don't think so.

whatawaster

I think Trap is getting great results with the players we have, so credit to him for that.

I do think he could get even better results if we were less conservative. Our best performances have been when this was the case (Paris).

Still, he's done a good job, just imo it could be better, but we can't have everything.

FWIW, i think we'd have done well in this world cup. Possibly QF depending on draw

Lukker-

Not depressed just not excited. We have a tough group and I can only see Sloavakia getting stronger.

gonedrinking

veXual wrote: »

The reason Ireland play mediocre football is because we are a mediocre side.

Traps done a good job thus far and should be allowed to continue.

Would you be saying this had we reached the world cup - I don't think so.

You don't need a team full of superstars to do well, just look at the likes of slovakia, the 2 koreas etc

Boskowski

Tough group. Realistically Trap plays the kind of football that is most likely to get Ireland results. With the players you have. how are you going to play like Spain for instance?

cson

If we tried to play like Brazil or Argentina we would be bet out the gate no question. We have limited players for the most part and Trappatoni has done a fine job so far of getting the best out of them.

I'll admit though that the World Cup doesn't reflect well on us with our 1st seed in the group finishing last and well; France... what can you say about that.

We should qualify for Euro 2012 all going well.

whatawaster

Have they increased the number of qualifiers for 2012 to 24? Or was that just talk?

Optimalprimerib

i really dont think he has done that good of a job. He tightened up the defence a bit but its not a good sign whenever ireland score, a wave of panic surrounds the team and they afraid to string 2 passes together incase they get exposed.

His interest in discovering new talent/researching his opponents is also worringly low. How many times was he at a premier league game last year. He also did not make an appearance to watch slovakia play at the world cup. I think his only interest is lining his pockets.

Iang87

but if we tried play open attacking football we'd be battered, trap is gettin the best out of what he's got, if he gets us to the euros i dont care if he makes a giant wall on the goalline

gonedrinking

Boskowski wrote: »

Tough group. Realistically Trap plays the kind of football that is most likely to get Ireland results. With the players you have. how are you going to play like Spain for instance?

You play like Span by trying to play like Spain. The likes of Spain and Holland aren't much different in terms of population size, theres no reason why we can't do as well as them if we actually try to play a bit of football. Its not gonna happen overnight but its the only way to catch up with the likes of Spain.

whatawaster

Iang87 wrote: »

but if we tried play open attacking football we'd be battered, trap is gettin the best out of what he's got, if he gets us to the euros i dont care if he makes a giant wall on the goalline

We don't need to play football like Spain or Argentina.

but contrast our performance and attitude away to France when we attacked them and looked dangerous, with both our matches against Cyprus where we scored early goals and spent the rest of the matches sitting deep looking terrified of conceding.

As i said, i think he's done a good job. He's made us organised and disciplined. But i still think there's 15/20% he's not getting out of us on a regular basis.

gonedrinking

Iang87 wrote: »

but if we tried play open attacking football we'd be battered, trap is gettin the best out of what he's got, if he gets us to the euros i dont care if he makes a giant wall on the goalline

No we wouldn't. If we passed the ball about and made the opposition really work to get back posession, instead of our defenders hoofing the ball back to the other team every time, we would be a much better team.

Don't write off attacking football because of Steve Staunton, he was a very poor and inexperienced manager.

_Bella_

whatawaster wrote: »

Have they increased the number of qualifiers for 2012 to 24? Or was that just talk?

It comes in for the 2016 euros

LeeroyJones

gonedrinking wrote: »

You play like Span by trying to play like Spain. The likes of Spain and Holland aren't much different in terms of population size, theres no reason why we can't do as well as them if we actually try to play a bit of football. Its not gonna happen overnight but its the only way to catch up with the likes of Spain.

WHAT?!

Republic of Ireland has a population of about 4.5 million and competes with Gaelic Football, Hurling and Rugby Union for players

Netherlands are nearly four times bigger with 16.5million

Spain has 46million

gonedrinking

hahah didn't think there was that big of a difference, but Portugal would be a better example

LeeroyJones

gonedrinking wrote: »

hahah didn't think there was that big of a difference, but Portugal would be a better example

Even still they have roughly 11 million!

Just look at this list

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_population


When you look at that you see that we actually punch above our weight for the size of us.

lordgoat

gonedrinking wrote: »

hahah didn't think there was that big of a difference, but Portugal would be a better example

Portugal has more than twice the amount of people than Ireland. You're talking shi te to be honest.

Gillington

whatawaster wrote: »

Have they increased the number of qualifiers for 2012 to 24? Or was that just talk?

They have done that for France 2016.

To answer the OP,I am not dreading it but I am not very much looking forward to it.Fair enough Trap has done well,an unbeaten qualifying campaign cannot be looked upon lightly but his insistence to try new players or new formations bugs the bleedin bejesus outta me.I'll probably be booed from this thread but the whole Andy Reid thing,one of our most creative players being overlooked is annoying as is the fact that Trap doesnt live here or England.

With two of our main players Duff and Keane aging,friendlies such as the Paraguay and Algeria games should have been used to find or blood future replacements for these two,although I do think that Greg Cunningham can become a fuure star for us

veXual

gonedrinking wrote: »

You don't need a team full of superstars to do well, just look at the likes of slovakia, the 2 koreas etc

We have done well! We were a whisker away from reaching the World Cup.

This was Slovakia's first world cup if I'm correct. I remeber the time we first qualified for the WC. There's no guarantee they can go on to replicate this campaign again.

Look at any other nation with the same population as us and then grade us against them.

Traps management suits Ireland IMO

VW 1

veXual wrote: »

Look at any other nation with the same population as us and then grade us against them.

Costa Rica 4.6m
Croatia 4.4m
New Zeland 4.3m :D
Uruguay 3.3m

Just playing devils advocate here, I actually agree with you, for the most part its the rule, those three are the exception and the NZ bit is a joke!!

Traps management suits Ireland IMO

Totally agree with this also, it may not be pretty but what does it matter as long as our side gets as far as possible, I'd rather be in the QF of Euros playing unattractive football than sitting watching a Euros with no Ireland in it because we tried to play like Spain in qualifying.

LeeroyJones

VW 1 wrote: »

Costa Rica 4.6m
Croatia 4.4m
New Zeland 4.3m :D
Uruguay 3.3m

Just playing devils advocate here, I actually agree with you, for the most part its the rule, those three are the exception and the NZ bit is a joke!!

I would certainly have us ahead of Costa Rica as well though!

Dublin_Gunner

I'm never depressed at the thoughts of watching Ireland play, never.

No matter who the manager is, no matter how good our squad is, I'll have the same excitement and give the same support each time our boys in green walk out on the pitch.

No exception.

gebbel

VW 1 wrote: »

Uruguay 3.3m

And potential WC semi-finalists........that's what you call punching above your weight!

lordgoat

gebbel wrote: »

And potential WC semi-finalists........that's what you call punching above your weight!

Found that very interesting. Never knew it has so few people!
Learn something new each day and all that!

kippy

Population is NOT a very good yard stick to be trying to measure how well a nation should be performing. Take for example China and India..............
That being said, we do punch about our respective weights in many internation sports, all things being considered.
Trap has done well with what he has got, despite it not being the best to watch and despite the teams that beat us (France and Italy) going out early.
We have a good few sports competing for players in this country and we have a player base at the moment thats not great but there are some decent players coming through.

http://www.rsc-northwest.ac.uk/acl/eMagArchive/RSCeMag0910/November09Single/GeographyResources.jpg

So we are all agreed, India are the best football team in the world.

briany

I think that he's done a great job but coming from the Staunton era it's hard to see how he could have done worse. The players he has under him seem like a tightly knit bunch who enjoy playing for their country and take great pride in it. It made me laugh, a news feature I once saw on Liam Lawrence before a big game pictured sitting beside a fireplace in some pub down in Wexford or somewhere saying how he was learning Gaelic and so on but if that's borne out of pride, even a misplaced one I'll take it because he was one the breakout stars of the last campaign for me.

While Ireland don't look liable to concede much they also don't look very likely to score oftentimes and that makes watching them play like watching paint dry at times. But conceding a lead is something that seems ingrained in the psyche of teams from these islands or maybe it just feels like that....

Still, I think he is the man to take Ireland to Euro 2012. It won't be easy but nothing worth having ever is right? (Just please not another bloody playoff!!!)

gleep

If we play the way we did against France, especially in Paris, we will be ok. Let the likes of Duff, Keane, McGeady, Doyle get on with playing and we'll be good to watch as well.

We just need to be a bit braver

Dont be at yourself

Trap out. Bring back Stan.

JerryHandbag

No. Euro 2008 qualifiers, getting tanked by Cyprus and having nothing left to play for in our last 3 qualifying matches (for the first time since before the Charlton era) under Staunton - now THAT was depressing.

_blank_

OP, who would you rather had the job?

Fact is, Ireland are extremely lucky to have a manager of the calibre of Tappatoni in charge.

Look at who else was being bandied about at the time after Staunton, or even after McCarthy

Joe Fúcking Kinnear
Paul Jewell

Bob the Seducer

Des wrote: »

OP, who would you rather had the job?

Fact is, Ireland are extremely lucky to have a manager of the calibre of Tappatoni in charge.

Look at who else was being bandied about at the time after Staunton, or even after McCarthy

Joe Fúcking Kinnear
Paul Jewell

When Staunton was in charge he was getting €400,000, Domenech was getting the same for managing France, Spain's Aragones was getting €550,000 and Lagerback was collecting €300,000 from the Swedish F.A.

Trap's €2m makes him better paid than 26 managers at this World Cup, he's on more or less the same pay as Hitzfeld is for Switzerland and van Marwijk is for Holland. If Trap was getting €1m he'd be making more than 22 of the managers at this World Cup.

If we're paying top level wages there is no excuse for failing to hire a top level manager.

There's always a distinct lack of ambition when it comes to shortlists for the Ireland job, Terry Venables was strongly linked with the job before Trap got it, that in itself shows the idiocy that takes hold when the position is available.

We interviewed Philippe Troussier (who managed Japan for four years including the 2002 World Cup) twice and picked Kerr and Staunton respectively over him.

Our list when Trap got the job may well have been Venables, Jewell, Kinnear, Trapattoni but it should have been something like Lippi, van Gaal, Deschamps, Jol, Trapattoni for the money on offer.

...and to answer the OP's question, no, I'm looking forward to it although I hope we play for less draws in this qualifying campaign.

Johnny Utah

Yes, I agree with the OP here. After the defeat against France in Paris last year, I predicted that Trap and Ireland would return to their old ways......... ugly football, long hoofballs up the pitch for Doyle to chase all day long, hope (not expect) to nick a goal against fa ourth tier footballing country like Cyprus, and then desperately hold onto that one goal lead for the remaining 65 minutes...... you can't teach an old dog new tricks! :rolleyes:


If we actually played with a bit of purpose (like we did in Paris) and held onto the ball ourselves instead of chasing it around, then we should really be beating the lesser teams. That's where we ultimately slipped up in the last group- dropping points to the likes of fcuking Montenegro:mad: We always perform well against the top seeds, but it's meaningless if we don't do the job against the lesser teams in the group.

noodler

whatawaster wrote: »

We don't need to play football like Spain or Argentina.

but contrast our performance and attitude away to France when we attacked them and looked dangerous, with both our matches against Cyprus where we scored early goals and spent the rest of the matches sitting deep looking terrified of conceding.

As i said, i think he's done a good job. He's made us organised and disciplined. But i still think there's 15/20% he's not getting out of us on a regular basis.

Thank god somebody else made this point.

More Paris, less Cyprus / Georgia at home Trap.

Even somewhere in between would be great.

bUILDERtHEbOB

As long as he gets results anyone who still complains can **** right off, tbh.

stovelid

Tell the likes of Andrews, McShane and Whelan to go out and play against the big teams and you'll be on here crying us about being hockeyed.

Our resources dictate prosaic football.

DB10

stovelid wrote: »

Tell the likes of Andrews, McShane and Whelan to go out and play against the big teams and you'll be on here crying us about being hockeyed.

Our resources dictate prosaic football.

I'm sorry but who is the man picking these players?

Whelan is alright. But why is McShane continually in the squad/team?? He has just been relegated with Hull, he rarely got games at all.

There are better players in the Championship who deserve a chance.
Andrews is average.

We could play good football if he would pick the likes of Andy Reid or Ireland wasn't such a twat.

Boskowski

DB10 wrote: »

I'm sorry but who is the man picking these players?

That's him. Pretty cool guy apparently.

Het-Field

I think a post above highlights this thread as a bit crazy.

The poster cites October 2006, where we had one point out of a possible nine in our Euro 2008 Qualifying Group. We were hockeyed in Cyrpus, played off the park by Germany in Stuttgart, and were celebrating a home point against an ordinary Czech team. That was the thin edge of the wedge. We almost became the first decent nation to drop points to San Marino, we were within injury time of a defeat to a 10 man Cyprus team, and we tossed away wins in Slovakia and Wales. Our disciplinary record was the poorest an Irish side had seen in decades (first time we had 2 red cards in the same qualification tournament in years), and the team was falling apart at the seems with claims of bullying and no man management.

Within two years, Trappatoni had converted the same guys (without it's creative influences Andy Reid, Stephen Ireland, and our proposed talisman of Steven Reid) and dragged us as close to the World Cup finals as makes no difference. The football was often dire to watch. It was painful having to do things the hard way against Cyprus and Georgia, while being shut out by Monetenegro twice. However, it almost paid dividends.

I really couldnt care less about the standard of football. I want to see us at footballs biggest carnivals. We have a chance to do so under Trappatoni, and I am not depressed as a result.

steelcityblues

Once a good club manager, but he bottled it with a capable Italy at WC 2002 (albeit with a questionable 2nd rd outcome), and most definitely at Euro 2004. Later on with Stuggart, he was widely criticised for results, and sacked after about 6 months.

Should have been a warning sign to those at Merrion Sq, and knowing his style of tactics, it is no guarantee we will beat the Macedonias and Armenias, nevermind Russia or Slovakia.

There is no getting around that we could have won the 2010 qualifying group with a more positive manager, and subsequently avoided the playoffs.

Not that optimistic about the euro qualifiers.

Johnny Utah

DB10 wrote: »

I'm sorry but who is the man picking these players?

Whelan is alright. But why is McShane continually in the squad/team?? He has just been relegated with Hull, he rarely got games at all.

There are better players in the Championship who deserve a chance.
Andrews is average.

We could play good football if he would pick the likes of Andy Reid or Ireland wasn't such a twat.

I don't understand why he keeps picking McShane either. The sad thing is we had Stephen Kelly on the bench for that game in Paris too, but he still brought on 'Mr Reliable' Paul McShane to replace John O'Shea..........

Kiwi_knock

Hopefully Trap realises that the 4-4-2 formation is a thing of the past and that he needs a creative midfielder to push Ireland onto another level. I think Whelan and Andrews are fine players but I do not think they will ever be players that will dictate and control the midfield. We need a player who can pass it around with ease and who can chip in with a few goals here and there.
To answer the OP's question, no I am not depressed of watching Ireland in the future because I know we have the ability and the belief to top the group.

stovelid

DB10 wrote: »

I'm sorry but who is the man picking these players?

Whelan is alright. But why is McShane continually in the squad/team?? He has just been relegated with Hull, he rarely got games at all.

There are better players in the Championship who deserve a chance.
Andrews is average.

We could play good football if he would pick the likes of Andy Reid or Ireland wasn't such a twat.

Even having Andy Reid (whose potential inclusion weirdly seems to amount to Kaka declaring for us, for some people) and Ireland in the team wouldn't give us the means to play that openly against most decent teams.

Ireland is a dead duck. At this stage, we have to consider what is at our disposal only, not what could be.

gonedrinking

stovelid wrote: »

Even having Andy Reid (whose potential inclusion weirdly seems to amount to Kaka declaring for us, for some people) and Ireland in the team wouldn't give us the means to play that openly against most decent teams.

IN comparative terms, Andy Reid is our Kaka.

And with a different manager S.Ireland could be more open to playing again, he said Trap had no interest in convincing him to come back he just wanted to be seen to have asked him. Roy Keane said he would camp outside Irelands house till he played again. Thats what we need. I hate Roy Keane with a passion for walking out on us at world cup 2002, but I'd have him as manager over Trap any day.

noodler

gonedrinking wrote: »

IN comparative terms, Andy Reid is our Kaka.

And with a different manager S.Ireland could be more open to playing again, he said Trap had no interest in convincing him to come back he just wanted to be seen to have asked him. Roy Keane said he would camp outside Irelands house till he played again. Thats what we need. I hate Roy Keane with a passion for walking out on us at world cup 2002, but I'd have him as manager over Trap any day.

I was about to thank your post on Andy Reid and how, relatively, he is one of our better creative players..

but you'd rather have Roy Keane as manager over Trap? On what basis? Thats the type of crazy talk the FAI used to get Stan in the job!

gonedrinking

noodler wrote: »

I was about to thank your post on Andy Reid and how, relatively, he is one of our better creative players..

but you'd rather have Roy Keane as manager over Trap? On what basis? Thats the type of crazy talk the FAI used to get Stan in the job!

On the basis of Keanes mentality and physcology of not accepting Ireland as being "minnows," of actually wanting to achieve things and not just making up the numbers in tournaments, of always wanting to improve and not ever accepting draws as good results no matter who you are playing, of never being intimidated by teams because they have a good history.

I know most of you will laugh at this because of the inferiority complex ingrained in the psyche of so many Irish, and all the excuses usually thrown out like we're only a small nation (conveniently forgetting that both Ireland and Northern Ireland have reached the quarter finals of the world cup before). Keane doesn't accept any of these excuses and rightly so.

Now I know Keane can't really handle day to day management of players but I think he could be good as an international manager, and at least he can speak english, how on earth is Trap supposed to rile players up and motivate players when his grasp of english is extremely limited.

noodler

gonedrinking wrote: »

On the basis of Keanes mentality and physcology of not accepting Ireland as being "minnows,"

No?

gonedrinking

noodler wrote: »

No?

no what?