Serie A Superthread 2011/2012

Seaneh

dor83 wrote: »

Inter never wanted the cardboard Scudetto in the first place, Mancini and Moratti said at the time they would prefer to win it on the pitch but they decided to award it to Inter anyway and it would be no big loss if it was taken back anyway. Juve were treated unfairly in Calciopoli, but they were by no means innocent and Moggi was a huge part of that in my opinion.

I'm not saying juve were innocent...
Just that Inter were just as guilty and got away scot free.

Pinturicchio

Not only did they get away scot free. They hugely benefitted from it, in just about every way.

dor83

Seaneh wrote: »

I'm not saying juve were innocent...
Just that Inter were just as guilty and got away scot free.

Inter weren't punished because there was no wire taps involving Inter, probably because of Moratti's involvement with Telecom Italia, but even the ones that have come out involving Inter aren't as bad as what Moggi was up, why did he give foreign sim cards out if he wasn't hiding something?

Also, Juve got away with the Doping scandal so they really shouldn't be complaining. Moggi was behind that too imo, he should not be allowed to be involved in the sport imo.

Either way, nothing is going to change now so people should just get over it and leave it in the past.

Seaneh

dor83 wrote: »

Inter weren't punished because there was no wire taps involving Inter, probably because of Moratti's involvement with Telecom Italia, but even the ones that have come out involving Inter aren't as bad as what Moggi was up, why did he give foreign sim cards out if he wasn't hiding something?

Also, Juve got away with the Doping scandal so they really shouldn't be complaining. Moggi was behind that too imo, he should not be allowed to be involved in the sport imo.

Either way, nothing is going to change now so people should just get over it and leave it in the past.

Transcripts that have come out involving Moratti in the last 18 months are pretty damning imho. These were left out of the case by the prosecuting magistrate for no apparent reason and only came to life during the last 2 years.


The whole trial and investigation was a glorified witch hunt imho.

dor83

Line ups for the game are:

Juventus: Buffon; Sorensen, Chiellini, Barzagli, Traoré; Martinez, Marchisio, Felipe Melo, Krasic; Toni, Matri

Milan: Abbiati; Abate, Nesta, Thiago Silva, Jankulovski; Gattuso, Van Bommel, Flamini; Boateng; Cassano, Ibrahimovic

I feel dirty saying this but hopefully Juve can get a win tonight.

Seaneh

dor83 wrote: »

Inter weren't punished because there was no wire taps involving Inter, probably because of Moratti's involvement with Telecom Italia, but even the ones that have come out involving Inter aren't as bad as what Moggi was up, why did he give foreign sim cards out if he wasn't hiding something?

Also, Juve got away with the Doping scandal so they really shouldn't be complaining. Moggi was behind that too imo, he should not be allowed to be involved in the sport imo.

Either way, nothing is going to change now so people should just get over it and leave it in the past.

Transcripts that have come out involving Moratti in the last 18 months are pretty damning imho. These were left out of the case by the prosecuting magistrate for no apparent reason and only came to life during the last 2 years.


The whole trial and investigation was a glorified witch hunt imho.

dor83

Seaneh wrote: »

Transcripts that have come out involving Moratti in the last 18 months are pretty damning imho. These were left out of the case by the prosecuting magistrate for no apparent reason and only came to life during the last 2 years.


The whole trial and investigation was a glorified witch hunt imho.

While I haven't read all of them, there are hundreds, what I have read was nothing imo, he was asked questions and answered them but never anything serious. I know that he shouldn't be talking to the referee's designator at all but, from what I read, he never asked for specific refs or anything, although he was asked if certain refs were ok.

I have to go back to the foreign sim cards, Moggi made more than 10 calls to to the ref of a game, against Milan in 2004 I think, in the day before the game. What were they talking about? I would imagine it was a lot more than any of the wire taps we heard.

Pinturicchio

dor83 wrote: »

Also, Juve got away with the Doping scandal so they really shouldn't be complaining.

Juve "got away with" it? They were found completely innocent by the international Court of Arbitration for Sport in Switzerland.

dor83

Pinturicchio wrote: »

Juve "got away with" it? They were found completely innocent by the international Court of Arbitration for Sport in Switzerland.

That doesn't mean they didn't do anything, the doctor was giving the players drugs that he shouldn't have been giving them and that they didn't need.

Mr. Presentable

dor83 wrote: »

I have to go back to the foreign sim cards, Moggi made more than 10 calls to to the ref of a game, against Milan in 2004 I think, in the day before the game. What were they talking about? I would imagine it was a lot more than any of the wire taps we heard.

Right there. "I would imagine" has been used as evidence of wrongdoing, instead of what it actually may have been, evidence of attempted wrongdoing. Strange that all of the clubs who were competitive with Inter were punished while the club whose owner was a director of the phone company whose lines were tapped were unaccused. It doesn't matter now what the results of the ongoing hearings will be - Juventus has been destroyed as a viable entity for many years to come.

Inter play their best game off the field.

Pinturicchio

dor83 wrote: »

That doesn't mean they didn't do anything, the doctor was giving the players drugs that he shouldn't have been giving them and that they didn't need.

...according to Zdenek Zeman, not according to CAS.

dor83

I am not saying Inter were completely innocent and have said many time that Juve were treated unfairly, but imo there is more evidence against Moggi than anyone at Inter.

To be honest I have had enough of debating about Calciopoli, I had enough of it 4 years ago, lets just leave it as Inter fans will always believe that Juve and Moggi were guilty of a lot more than Inter and Moratti and Juve fans will always believe they done nothing wrong.

Mr. Presentable

dor83 wrote: »

lets just leave it as Inter fans will always believe that Juve and Moggi were guilty of a lot more than Inter and Moratti and Juve fans will always believe they done nothing wrong.

That's what you'd like, isn't it?

Nah, I believe all were equally guilty, but also that they were guilty of very little - after all, what was actually influenced? Nothing, that's what.

Pinturicchio

A lot of the more incriminating calls seem to feature Facchetti rather than Moratti.

Pinturicchio

Moggi isn't at the Juve match after all. Lapo Elkann is though.

dor83

Buffon really should have done better than that, Gattuso makes it 1-0 Milan.

Pauleta

That match was awful. It was like a Pre-Season match.

Pinturicchio

Barzagli shouldn't be preferred to Bonucci. He and Buffon both should have done much better for the goal.

Marchisio-Melo couldn't control midfield at all.

Krasic started well but faded. Martinez is useless. Strikers got no supply. Chiellini was unusually poor.

Juve didn't have a single shot on target.

Seaneh

didn't get to see the match as I was at a gig. Sounds like I didn't miss much.

But hurrah, a win is a win.

dizzywizlw

It's ok though, Delneri still has the dressing room :pac:

That match was truly awful, the perfect performance to put the final nail in Juves' Champions League coffin

We may as well try some different tactics if we're going to lose anyway, perhaps the Man Utd system, 4-5-1/4-3-3 yokey

eZe^

If Zlatan wins the Scudetto this year with Milan, he'll have 9 domestic titles to his names, the same amount as Paul Scholes. 7 league medals in 7 seasons too, at 4 different clubs. That's an amazing stat.

Seaneh

someone will be along soon to dismiss those medals and call Holland a nothing league and then say he was a flop in spain and sure he never performs in big matches Blahblahblah...



Fantastic stats though.
By all accounts at Milan he trains like a lunatic.

Cassano said himself and Gattauso trained harder than anyone he's ever played with.

What was the consensus among Barca staff and players about his training?

dor83

Inter losing 1-0 to Genoa at half time, I think dropping points today would pretty much end Inters chances of winning the scudetto, even a win in the derby would still make it 5 and I simply don't see Milan dropping that many more points than Inter.

everdead.ie

eZe^ wrote: »

If Zlatan wins the Scudetto this year with Milan, he'll have 9 domestic titles to his names, the same amount as Paul Scholes. 7 league medals in 7 seasons too, at 4 different clubs. That's an amazing stat.

Hasn't he never lost the league in Italy no matter who he played for? That's pretty amazing.
Even if people believe he doesn't perform in "big Matches" someone still has to score against the so called "smaller" teams. It's beating the teams at the bottom of the league that will win you the most points anyway.

Seaneh

Please Genoa...
Beat Inter and you can have the other 50% of Palochi's contract for free.

Seaneh

everdead.ie wrote: »

Hasn't he never lost the league in Italy no matter who he played for? That's pretty amazing.
Even if people believe he doesn't perform in "big Matches" someone still has to score against the so called "smaller" teams. It's beating the teams at the bottom of the league that will win you the most points anyway.

Yeah, he's won the league every season since he moved to Juve.

dizzywizlw

Does to revoked Scudetto count?

Seaneh

dizzywizlw wrote: »

Does to revoked Scudetto count?

To the players, yes.

dor83

4-1 to Inter now, playing well in the second half and looking very good going forward.

Seaneh

I hate you ;-(

dor83

Finished 5-2, very entertaining second half and both teams could have scored more. Inter deserved the win but the defence is still not good enough imo and could be what costs us points in the run in.

Seaneh

I hope you are right :-P

Pinturicchio

Zlatan has won the league every year since 2003-04.

Ajax, Juve, Juve, Inter, Inter, Inter, Barcelona, Milan?

dizzywizlw

I still think he's a big douchebag.

Pinturicchio

Paolo Bergamo (former referee designator):

"It was a moment when we were asked to create a tranquil situation for referees.

The Federation (FIGC) gaves us a telephone which they used to pay for and they knew all the statements.

Our phone numbers were given to all the clubs, and they all used to call us.

At the time we were accused of speaking too much, but today clubs moan that we have closed up.

The AIA (Italian referees association) proposed that referees must not speak with anyone, but then no-one liked that proposal.

I think they tried to create a climate of tranquility for referees before matches to help referees.

At the time (2006) they considered it was not something to be done, but this is not the truth.

At the time Farsopoli (Calciopoli) broke out, they showed just one call as evidence regarding myself and Moggi. All the others were hidden.

But, I used to speak with everyone. In particular I used to speak with Inter because they never used to win back then, and they always used to moan."



He also said:

"The Calciopoli 2006 process was not based on solid backing, it was a farce. I used to speak with everyone because the FIGC told us to have contacts with everyone and to give them our maximum attention. I am here to help shed light on what really happened."

dizzywizlw

But.....Juve were the ringleader and punished completely fairly with regard to everybody else :rolleyes:


I wonder how much longer the facade of single-handed evil Juve will go on.

dor83

Inter 1-0 up at half time against Brescia but the defence has looked like conceding, which shouldn't be happening against Brescia.

dor83

1-1, deserved too. Pandev has had a couple of good chances that he should have scored though. Looks like that's the Scudetto going to Milan unless we score again.

EDIT: Cordoba off and pen saved by Cesar.

Seaneh

Milan need to capitalize on Inter dropping points this weekend and push 7 clear which would mean even if inter win the derby, milan have a 4 point advantage.
We badly need our injury problems to be over though.
Having Pippo, Prilo and Ambrosini back for the tail end of the season would be a huge blessing.
Two of those 3 could have made all the difference on wednesday.

Pinturicchio

Pippo would've scored in the last few scored minutes against Spurs.

Pinturicchio

Absolutely crazy first half in Cesena. It's 2-1 to Juve. Matri scored twice. Del Piero involved in both of them.

Cesena got one back from a penalty. Buffon should've been sent off again but Motta has been sent off.

The game is being played at 100 miles per hour. I wonder will the pace be maintained in the second half.

dor83

Didn't see the first half but the second half has been great, real end to end stuff and possibly pens for both teams. What was Motta sent off for? should he have been?

Pinturicchio

dor83 wrote: »

Didn't see the first half but the second half has been great, real end to end stuff and possibly pens for both teams. What was Motta sent off for? should he have been?

Two yellow cards. The second one was debatable. The ref was probably trying to make up for only giving Buffon a yellow.

Buffon has been brilliant in the second half. Three world class saves.

Del Piero off for Martinez now. :mad::mad:

Pinturicchio

Two points absolutely thrown away by Juve.

The defence was terrible again. Chiellini's second bad game in a row.

As soon as Iaquinta came on for Matri I knew we weren't going to win because Cesena were always going to score again and Iaquinta supported by Martinez offers pretty much no goal threat. Martinez is completely useless. He contributes less to the team than Amauri did. Iaquinta looks like he's working hard while not actually moving much and rarely getting into a position where he could score.

The positives were Matri and Del Piero in the first half and Buffon apart from giving away the penalty.

A lot of the blame lies with Delneri again for taking off Matri and Del Piero so early when the bench was so weak, but almost all of the players underperformed yet again. Marchisio and Aquilani were as ineffective as usual.

Motta should never play for Juve again.

I thought Parolo was great for Cesena. Man of the match.

dizzywizlw

Disgusting, take away Matri and it's the same story as last year, Juventus are fast becoming a sham of a club from top to bottom.

No chance Delneri will remain IMO, this chopping and changing is very bad for the club but we've gotten it wrong yet again.

Pal

Roma v Lazio
2pm ESPN

dor83

Milan v Bari kicks off in about 20mins, line ups are:

Milan: Abbiati; Abate, Nesta, Thiago Silva, Antonini; Gattuso, Van Bommel, Merkel; Robinho; Pato, Ibrahimovic

Bari: Gillet; A Masiello, Glik, Belmonte, Rossi; Alvarez, Codrea, Almiron, Bentivoglio; Rudolf, Ghezzal

While I hope Bari can do us a favour and take some points off Milan, I fully expect an easy win for Milan.

Raskolnikov

Milan should really be giving Bari a tonking here, from what I've seen on them, they truly are horrific.

Paco Rodriguez

Glad to see Antonini in there again hes much better than Janku.

dor83

Raskolnikov wrote: »

Milan should really be giving Bari a tonking here, from what I've seen on them, they truly are horrific.

Yeah they really are awful, there is always hope of an upset though, no matter how remote the chances of one are.