Uruguay -v- Ghana, Q-Final

Het-Field

Melion wrote: »

My bollox!
You would only give out about Keane missing the penalty?
No mention of Henry stopping a 100% certain, nailed on goal that would have put Ireland into a world cup semi-final?

No. Because football history is punctuated with this type of thing. We would have been given a chance to right the wrong. If we didnt take the chance, I would put it down to our own failure to take advantage. I know that for a fact, because as a fan of West Ham I have seen this type of thing before.

Melion

Melion wrote: »

So double standards then?

Double standards from who?

I'm not the bitter one over Henry.

eagle eye

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

No, that's too simple. Maradona and Henry were not staring certain elimination in the face when they used their hands. This is the key point!

I'll ask again, ideally, what should Suarez have done?

Oh and if Henry had done what Suarez did tonight I could not begrudge his actions. I'd call him plenty of names under the sun alright, but cheater would not be one of them.

Do you not understand English language? Suarez did cheat, Henry did cheat, Maradona did cheat.

They are all cheaters.

Melion

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

Eh, no it's not. Still not going to answer my question? What should Suarez have done instead?

Not handballed it maybe?
Just because people say its a natural reaction and any of us would do the same, that doesnt make it ok.

Melion

rarnes1 wrote: »

Double standards from who?

I'm not the bitter one over Henry.

Henry handballs it against Ireland like Suarez did, and is called every name under the sun and murdered if he ever set foot in Ireland.
Doyle does it against England and he is a hero.

Im not bitter over Henry at all, i have absolutely no interest in the irish national team. Couldnt care less if they were at the world cup.

Het-Field

eagle eye wrote: »

Do you not understand English. Suarez did cheat, Henry did cheat, Maradona did cheat.

They are all cheaters.

The advantage given is of huge difference. Maradona's goal changed the tide of a game which was slipping from the Argies. The same applies to Henry. Suarez committed a professional foul, and suffered consequences. Maradona went on to lift the WC and Henry brought his team to the WC, when it should have been decisded another way.

_blank_

Suarez you absolute hero.

xtal191

I dont see the big deal here at all Suarez handled the ball like any other player wouldve done, he got sent off Ghana got the penatly and missed, tough crap! Anyway the freekick leading up to that whole incident shouldnt have been a free zick as the Ghana player tripped himself up.

eagle eye

Het-Field wrote: »

The advantage given is of huge difference. Maradona's goal changed the tide of a game which was slipping from the Argies. The same applies to Henry. Suarez committed a professional foul, and suffered consequences. Maradona went on to lift the WC and Henry brought his team to the WC, when it should have been decisded another way.

The results of their actions are irrelevant as far as whether they are cheaters or not is concerned.

I'm simply saying they all cheated. Nothing more, nothing less.

namloc1980

inforfun wrote: »

It is simple really.

You either call all 3 of Maradona/Henry/Suarez cheats or neither of them.

The advantages for their teams might have been different in "size" but all 3 of them broke a rule and their teams made a profit out if it.

So if you break a rule you're a cheat! :rolleyes: A defender concedes a free = he's a cheat?! Seriously people need to get some perspective.

Skid

Anyone who can honestly say they wouldn't have handled the ball on the line should have no place on a football team.

What's the alternative - let it sail in to the net?

Red Card+penalty+suspension is a fair sanction for the handball. Ghana had their chance and blew it.

Mr.Nice Guy

eagle eye wrote: »

Do you not understand English language? Suarez did cheat, Henry did cheat, Maradona did cheat.

They are all cheaters.

It is cheating by the dictionary definition of the word, yes. However the dictionary would say hacking down a player clear on goal to deprive them of an opportunity on goal was also cheating.

Most football fans would not put that on a par with Maradona and Henry though. Do you accept that point?

Melion wrote:

Not handballed it maybe?
Just because people say its a natural reaction and any of us would do the same, that doesnt make it ok.

OK so you think he should have allowed his team crash out of the tournament. Well needless to say we'll agree to differ on that viewpoint.

Het-Field

eagle eye wrote: »

The results of their actions are irrelevant as far as whether they are cheaters or not is concerned.

I'm simply saying they all cheated. Nothing more, nothing less.

When sactions apply, then the cheat is equalised, if it is a cheat at all. It was equalised. Failure to take advantage of the equalisation is not the fault of the original transgressor.

dolliemix

Het-Field wrote: »

The advantage given is of huge difference. Maradona's goal changed the tide of a game which was slipping from the Argies. The same applies to Henry. Suarez committed a professional foul, and suffered consequences. Maradona went on to lift the WC and Henry brought his team to the WC, when it should have been decisded another way.

Yes but it was the Ref who should have rectified this.

All of them acted on impulse. They didn't intentionally plan to 'cheat'.

The difference is he ref tonight did his job properly the other two refs didn't!

BOHSBOHS

would it have been a certain goal tho ? wudnt the ball have hit suarez's head and maybe bounced out. cos his head looked in the path of the ball

Melion

Melion wrote: »

Henry handballs it against Ireland like Suarez did, and is called every name under the sun and murdered if he ever set foot in Ireland.
Doyle does it against England and he is a hero.

Im not bitter over Henry at all, i have absolutely no interest in the irish national team. Couldnt care less if they were at the world cup.

Ok, for example if Carra did that in the CL final v United and Liverpool went on to win on pens he'd be a legend no doubt with Pool fans.

The same if Rooney did it for utd v Pool etc etc

Chardee MacDennis

wow did a click back in time?

Melion

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

OK so you think he should have allowed his team crash out of the tournament. Well needless to say we'll agree to differ on that viewpoint.

He should have tried to use his head, just like you said Henry should have tried to control the ball with his foot.

namloc1980

Melion wrote: »

Henry handballs it against Ireland like Suarez did, and is called every name under the sun and murdered if he ever set foot in Ireland.
Doyle does it against England and he is a hero.

Im not bitter over Henry at all, i have absolutely no interest in the irish national team. Couldnt care less if they were at the world cup.

No it was nothing alike. Please stop comparing these 2 scenarios and trying to say they're the same......they are not the same!!!!!!!!!!!!

eagle eye

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

It is cheating by the dictionary definition of the word, yes. However the dictionary would say hacking down a player clear on goal to deprive them of an opportunity on goal was also cheating.

Most football fans would not put that on a par with Maradona and Henry though. Do you accept that point?

Yes. Do you now understand that Suarez did cheat?

inforfun

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

No, that's too simple. Maradona and Henry were not staring certain elimination in the face when they used their hands. This is the key point!

I'll ask again, ideally, what should Suarez have done?

Oh and if Henry had done what Suarez did tonight I could not begrudge his actions. I'd call him plenty of names under the sun alright, but cheater would not be one of them.

Dont get me wrong.
I hate Suarez with a passion but i can understand what he did.
I could or would have done it myself. On purpose or in a reflex.

The thing that bothers me in this discussion is that people think what Suarez did was ok and what Henry did was nothing short of killing little kittens and eat them.

I also think that Suarez gave his team a bigger advantage than Henry did. Suarez handled a ball that was certain to be a goal after 31mins52 seconds in extra time. Ireland had 16 minutes to make things right.
Ghana had 1 shot.
Ok, it was a penalty but imagine the pressure the guy was under, last seconds of a 1/4 final in the WC. After being cheated out of a certain 1/2 final.

Melion

rarnes1 wrote: »

Ok, for example if Carra did that in the CL final v United and Liverpool went on to win on pens he'd be a legend no doubt with Pool fans.

The same if Rooney did it for utd v Pool etc etc

That doesnt make him any less of a cheat.

Het-Field

dolliemix wrote: »

Yes but it was the Ref who should have rectified this.

All of them acted on impulse. They didn't intentionally plan to 'cheat'.

The difference is he ref tonight did his job properly the other two refs didn't!

I would disagree. Both Henry and Maradona had time to consider the action 1)As Maradona went up, 2) When Henry controlled the ball with his hand for the second time

dolliemix

SkidMark wrote: »

Anyone who can honestly say they wouldn't have handled the ball on the line should have no place on a football team.

+1

Fizman

lisbon_lions wrote: »

EVERYONE would have done the same thing in Suarez's position. He had to do it, I would not fault the lad at all. It was dealt with there and then, correctly. Ghana had a penalty to go through.

+47

This is all that needs to be said on the matter imo.

eagle eye

Het-Field wrote: »

When sactions apply, then the cheat is equalised, if it is a cheat at all. It was equalised. Failure to take advantage of the equalisation is not the fault of the original transgressor.

It was not equalised. If he didn't cheat the ball was in the net.

The only fair penalty for that is to give the goal.

Giving another opportunity to score is not a suitable punishment.

BastardPrince

BastardPrince wrote: »

wow did a click back in time?

It appears so.

It's November '09. Frosty night out there.

steelcityblues

What was worse for me, was the man's gloating reaction after the Gyan penalty miss.
No sense of doubt, for what he had done a minute or so earlier, seemed to be apparent.
Unfortunately, this will be one of the (if not the) most memorable images of the World Cup!

Het-Field

inforfun wrote: »

Dont get me wrong.
I hate Suarez with a passion but i can understand what he did.
I could or would have done it myself. On purpose or in a reflex.

The thing that bothers me in this discussion is that people think what Suarez did was ok and what Henry did was nothing short of killing little kittens and eat them.

I also think that Suarez gave his team a bigger advantage than Henry did. Suarez handled a ball that was certain to be a goal after 31mins52 seconds in extra time. Ireland had 16 minutes to make things right.
Ghana had 1 shot.
Ok, it was a penalty but imagine the pressure the guy was under, last seconds of a 1/4 final in the WC. After being cheated out of a certain 1/2 final.

-If Gyan is a professional footballer, then pressure shouldnt apply.

-The Uruguay Keeper didnt save the ball. If Gyan had it on target, Ghana were through

-Suarez took the step he took,a nd knew that sanction would result which would deprive his team heavily.

-Henry's cheating steps gave his team a clear advantage, and demoralised a team which was physically out on his feet.

-Henry's handball is an uncommon occurrance. On the other hand, on line handballs have been going on for years. Gyan scored a penalty under similar circumstances when Harry Kewell handled the ball in the group stage.

Melion

Het-Field wrote: »

-If Gyan is a professional footballer, then pressure shouldnt apply.

Your point loses all credibility right there.
An entire continent behind you in the last second of a world cup quarter final and you think there is no pressure there.

unkel

Het-Field wrote: »

-If Gyan is a professional footballer, then pressure shouldnt apply.

Hahahahahhah. No pressure at all

pickarooney

Ghana's entire World Cup adventure centred around that little spot 11 metres out and Gyan was there every step of the way.

Het-Field

eagle eye wrote: »

It was not equalised. If he didn't cheat the ball was in the net.

The only fair penalty for that is to give the goal.

Giving another opportunity to score is not a suitable punishment.

While I would agree with penalty goals, it is arguable that Suarez could have saved the ball with his head, and under the rules as they currently apply there was no guarantee of a goal.

Red Card, Penalty, No Suarez for the Penalties, sounds equalised to me.

Mr.Nice Guy

Melion wrote: »

He should have tried to use his head, just like you said Henry should have tried to control the ball with his foot.

It was a split-second reaction with his team in peril. Again, this is not the situation Henry was in.

eagle eye wrote:

Yes. Do you now understand that Suarez did cheat?

As I said, by the definition of it then it's cheating yes.

inforfun wrote:

Dont get me wrong.
I hate Suarez with a passion but i can understand what he did.
I could or would have done it myself. On purpose or in a reflex.

The thing that bothers me in this discussion is that people think what Suarez did was ok and what Henry did was nothing short of killing little kittens and eat them.

I also think that Suarez gave his team a bigger advantage than Henry did. Suarez handled a ball that was certain to be a goal after 31mins52 seconds in extra time. Ireland had 16 minutes to make things right.
Ghana had 1 shot.
Ok, it was a penalty but imagine the pressure the guy was under, last seconds of a 1/4 final in the WC. After being cheated out of a certain 1/2 final.

I would personally make a distinction between doing something to save your team which HAD to be done, like Suarez did, and doing something to another team which did not HAVE to be done, like Henry/Maradona did. Just my view on it.

Het-Field

Melion wrote: »

Your point loses all credibility right there.
An entire continent behind you in the last second of a world cup quarter final and you think there is no pressure there.

He managed to score in the shootout.

_Bella_

For God sake people I'm as sad about it as anyone and I really wanted Ghana to go through. The exact same thing happened in the Ghana Australia match where Harry Kewell ended up doing the same thing yet people then even said they didn't think he deserved the red. Unfortunately Ghana missed and it seems really unfair that if Suarez hadn't broken the rules Ghana would be in the semis but thats how football works

Het-Field

Het-Field wrote: »

-If Gyan is a professional footballer, then pressure shouldnt apply.

:eek:

dolliemix

Het-Field wrote: »

I would disagree. Both Henry and Maradona had time to consider the action 1)As Maradona went up, 2) When Henry controlled the ball with his hand for the second time

Possibly. We'll never know for sure.

But at the end of the day they should have been called up by the ref. If they had it wouldn't have been such drama. In the Henry case, it would have been a goal kick and the game would have just gone on as before.

The refs were at fault and responsible as far as I'm concerned.

In tonight's game Suarez was caught, penalised and Ghana missed their chance.

I do feel sorry for them, but they had plenty of chances in the 120 mins to score a goal. They had that penalty at the end. Uruguay missed a penalty so they had another chance there. They lost because they couldn't come up with the goods under pressure. Its sad for them and especially Gyan but thats sport for you.

namloc1980

steelcityblues wrote: »

What was worse for me, was the man's gloating reaction after the Gyan penalty miss.
No sense of doubt, for what he had done a minute or so earlier, seemed to be apparent.
Unfortunately, this will be one of the (if not the) most memorable images of the World Cup!

Yeah how dare he express jubilation that his team was still in the World Cup.

Melion

Het-Field wrote: »

He managed to score in the shootout.

Much less pressure in a shoot-out, especially the first kick.

Het-Field

Melion wrote: »

Much less pressure in a shoot-out, especially the first kick.

Sorry, but how do you know ?

Melion

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

It was a split-second reaction with his team in peril. Again, this is not the situation Henry was in.

Henry made a split second decision to get his team closer to the world cup.

dolliemix

steelcityblues wrote: »

What was worse for me, was the man's gloating reaction after the Gyan penalty miss.
No sense of doubt, for what he had done a minute or so earlier, seemed to be apparent.
Unfortunately, this will be one of the (if not the) most memorable images of the World Cup!

Lol! didn't even notice that. Must have been posting on boards!

In fairness the guy was delighted that his team were through to the semi-finals. I have no problem with him celebrating. He's not even going to play in the match so it was a selfless act on his part.

Raw passion! I don't like Suarez but I like that!

Melion

Het-Field wrote: »

Sorry, but how do you know ?

If he misses, it can be rectified by a team mate.
His miss in extra time couldnt be fixed.

pickarooney

Melion wrote: »

Henry made a split second decision to get his team closer to the world cup.

Suarez acted in self-defence though.

cooker3

rarnes1 wrote: »

I think some are getting confused with cheating and committing a foul.

He was punished rightfully for commiting a foul, ie handling the ball on the line.

Henry cheated, ie committed an act of fraud.

Baby infants stuff.

Nope, they are both the same imo as in I think calling Henry a cheat is pretty retarded, calling him a fraud is hilarious. It was a free out and yellow card, that's it. It's no different from every other handball or deliberate tackle ever made in football. Using the word cheating makes the word totally meaningless.

Suarez did what exactly he should have done. It's an absolute no brainer.

Melion

pickarooney wrote: »

Suarez acted in self-defence though.

Thanks for your contribution

Fizman

eagle eye wrote: »

It was not equalised. If he didn't cheat the ball was in the net.

The only fair penalty for that is to give the goal.

Giving another opportunity to score is not a suitable punishment.

Where do you draw the line with that logic then?

If a lobbed through ball is played and a centre back handles it intentionally so the forward doesn't run through on goal, do you send him off and re-enact the though ball and allow the striker to carry on as if he had never been 'cheated'??

Anyone who has a problem with Suarez must never have played the sport at a competitive level. I certainly would never wish to be on the same side as you when staring down the barrel of defeat.

If what he did was so bad, why weren't the Ghana team berating him because of it??? It's because he got a red card (which Ghana applauded) and they had a penalty to go through to the next round.

They missed. They then had the chance to go through via a penalty shootout (flip of a coin). They lost that flip of a coin, and the go home. I felt very sorry for Ghana I must say, but unfortunately that is the nature of the sport. They didn't take their opportunity and were punished.

For the poster who said that they would hate to see Suarez score the winner in the final, that is utter nonsense. If Uruguay get that far it will have been without him in the semi's, and he will have served his punishment.

Can't get over some of the reactions on here.

Melion

Melion wrote: »

Henry made a split second decision to get his team closer to the world cup.

Henry wasnt punished for his offence. It went unnoticed.

dolliemix

Het-Field wrote: »

-If Gyan is a professional footballer, then pressure shouldnt apply.

-The Uruguay Keeper didnt save the ball. If Gyan had it on target, Ghana were through

-Suarez took the step he took,a nd knew that sanction would result which would deprive his team heavily.

-Henry's cheating steps gave his team a clear advantage, and demoralised a team which was physically out on his feet.

-Henry's handball is an uncommon occurrance. On the other hand, on line handballs have been going on for years. Gyan scored a penalty under similar circumstances when Harry Kewell handled the ball in the group stage.

So Gyan should act like a pro but yet Henry demoralised a 'professional' Irish football team!