Uruguay -v- Ghana, Q-Final

steelcityblues

Fizman wrote: »

Where do you draw the line with that logic then?

If a lobbed through ball is played and a centre back handles it intentionally so the forward doesn't run through on goal, do you send him off and re-enact the though ball and allow the striker to carry on as if he had never been 'cheated'??

Anyone who has a problem with Suarez must never have played the sport at a competitive level.

If what he did was so bad, why weren't the Ghana team berating him because of it??? It's because he got a red card (which Ghana applauded) and they had a penalty to go through to the next round.

They missed. They then had the chance to go through via a penalty shootout (flip of a coin). They lost that flip of a coin, and the go home. I felt very sorry for Ghana I must say, but unfortunately that is the nature of the sport. They didn't take their opportunity and were punished.

For the poster who said that they would hate to see Suarez score the winner in the final, that is utter nonsense. If Uruguay get that far it will have been without him in the semi's, and he will have served his punishment.

Can't get over some of the reactions on here.

That was me btw. Tell me you would have been 'cool' with the possibility of a Henry winner in the final this year (before the tournament that is), and I would say back to you that you must be joking!
Same dreading feeling for Ghananians now, and no doubt some others!

Het-Field

Melion wrote: »

If he misses, it can be rectified by a team mate.
His miss in extra time couldnt be fixed.

I dont buy that at all. Penalty shootouts have been serious pressure cookers for years.

Im sorry, but I just dont buy this to be cheating. I recall my own team West Ham being placed in a very invidious position by Hamann and Crouch in the 2006 FA Cup final. An injury gave rise to West Ham kicking the ball into touch (to allow for treatment), which resulted in a throw in which Hammann threw in front of himself, and in reality never gave the ball back to West Ham. Crouch pressurised Scaloni who fluffed his lines and Gerrad sunk the ball. I have always cursed Scaloni, while many of my fellow Hammers fans called it cheating on Hamann and Crouch's part. However, i feel that Liverpool knew they had to do something.

Mr.Nice Guy

Melion wrote: »

Henry made a split second decision to get his team closer to the world cup.

Huh? Henry was in his opponent's half with plenty of time left on the clock (you acknowledged the time left yourself). Uruguay had a minute or so left and if Suarez doesn't make that split-second decision Uruguay are gone. How can you compare the two?

Also, Henry never got punished and went around sympathising with players despite what he had done. Suarez went off in tears having been red-carded and having a penalty awarded against his team.

DB10

Anyone defending Suarez and criticising Henry is just a very very bitter person and a hypocrite.


Henry didn't score with his hand
Hery didn't stop a goal with his hand

He handled and passed across the goal, mainly due to ****e defending.
Get over it. Deal with it.

Some people need to step back and think about what rubbish they post. But I suspect as usual we have a band of trolls, that want to play on peoples emotions and boycott cuisine de France.

Het-Field

dolliemix wrote: »

So Gyan should act like a pro but yet Henry demoralised a 'professional' Irish football team!

The hind and the wind was behing Ghana. Ireland had given it all, and dominated over 102 mins. They are not comparable situations.

Melion

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

Also, Henry never got punished and went around sympathising with players despite what he had done. Suarez went off in tears having been red-carded and having a penalty awarded against his team.

Did you see his reaction after Gyan missed? Amazing how quick those tears disappeared.

DB10

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

Huh? Henry was in his opponent's half with plenty of time left on the clock (you acknowledged the time left yourself). Uruguay had a minute or so left and if Suarez doesn't make that split-second decision Uruguay are gone. How can you compare the two?

Also, Henry never got punished and went around sympathising with players despite what he had done. Suarez went off in tears having been red-carded and having a penalty awarded against his team.

Think you missed something here.

Suarez went off in pain then danced and raced around laughing and celebrating when Gyan missed the penalty...

Honestly are people just making this stuff up or just trying to leave FACTS out...

Melion

Het-Field wrote: »

I dont buy that at all. Penalty shootouts have been serious pressure cookers for years.

Im sorry, but I just dont buy this to be cheating. I recall my own team West Ham being placed in a very invidious position by Hamann and Crouch in the 2006 FA Cup final. An injury gave rise to West Ham kicking the ball into touch (to allow for treatment), which resulted in a throw in which Hammann threw in front of himself, and in reality never gave the ball back to West Ham. Crouch pressurised Scaloni who fluffed his lines and Gerrad sunk the ball. I have always cursed Scaloni, while many of my fellow Hammers fans called it cheating on Hamann and Crouch's part. However, i feel that Liverpool knew they had to do something.

There is no law saying the ball has to be given back to the team who kicked it out. Its just a part of the game that it is given back.

eagle eye

Fizman wrote: »

Where do you draw the line with that logic then?

You bring in a rule that a certain goal is awarded if the only possible way it could not have happend is by deliberately breaking the rules.

Of course you bring in this rule when you bring in goal-line technology.

dolliemix

Het-Field wrote: »

-If Gyan is a professional footballer, then pressure shouldnt apply.

-The Uruguay Keeper didnt save the ball. If Gyan had it on target, Ghana were through

-Suarez took the step he took,a nd knew that sanction would result which would deprive his team heavily.

-Henry's cheating steps gave his team a clear advantage, and demoralised a team which was physically out on his feet.

-Henry's handball is an uncommon occurrance. On the other hand, on line handballs have been going on for years. Gyan scored a penalty under similar circumstances when Harry Kewell handled the ball in the group stage.

Het-Field wrote: »

The hind and the wind was behing Ghana. Ireland had given it all, and dominated over 102 mins. They are not comparable situations.

In the context of them all being professional footballers and being able to deal with whatever comes your way - Yes they are comparable

Pepe LeFrits

mars bar wrote: »

The aim of the game is to get the ball between the two posts so awarding a goal when the ball doesn't cross the line would be silly.

I see what you're getting at but if that ever happened, I think I would stop watching the game completely.

An outfield player using his hand to stop the ball crossing the line when a goal is 100% certain and being allowed the opportunity to get away with it is sillier.

Mr.Nice Guy

Melion wrote:

Did you see his reaction after Gyan missed? Amazing how quick those tears disappeared.

DB10 wrote: »

Think you missed something here.

Suarez went off in pain then danced and raced around laughing and celebrating when Gyan missed the penalty...

Honestly are people just making this stuff up or just trying to leave FACTS out...

Well of course he did because he was let off the hook! The peno was the punishment for the offence and Gyan blew it.

Het-Field

Melion wrote: »

There is no law saying the ball has to be given back to the team who kicked it out. Its just a part of the game that it is given back.

Sorry, the moral code also applies. Remember Mark Overmars and Kanu conspiring to put Arsenal through to an FA Cup 5th round in similar circumstances ? They replayed the game. I wouldnt expect a shower like Liverpool to be so magnamanious. It could have been construed as cheating. Simile because the law is not black and white doesnt mean it cannot equate to cheating. I chose not to deem it cheating.

cooker3

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

Let's be serious.

Henry was in his opponent's half and didn't need to handle the ball. He didn't experience punishment or admit his offence until later.

Suarez was on his own goal-line and NEEDED to handle the ball to save his team. He did experience punishment and the offence was acknowledged.

The situations are utterly and completely different.

Their actions are exactly the same, the outcomes are different. Both players handballed to help their teams, no difference whatsoever.
They both cheated or they both didn't cheat but you can't possibly say Henry cheated and Suarez didn't.

Het-Field

eagle eye wrote: »

You bring in a rule that a certain goal is awarded if the only possible way it could not have happend is by deliberately breaking the rules.

Of course you bring in this rule when you bring in goal-line technology.

But how can it be stated what is a "certain" goal ? Is it a balance of probabilites or beyond reasonable doubt thing ?

titan18

It's a competitive game, you do what you can to win.Suarez did that tonight, and countless others have done it in the history of sport.Imo there's nothing wrong with it.As much as anyone criticizes it happening, ye generally don't care too much when it benefits your team or country.

namloc1980

Melion wrote: »

Did you see his reaction after Gyan missed? Amazing how quick those tears disappeared.

I presume you have never played the game. He did what ANYBODY would have done.

Melion

namloc1980 wrote: »

I presume you have never played the game. He did what ANYBODY would have done.

So did Henry. That doesnt make either ok.

Het-Field

cooker3 wrote: »

Their actions are exactly the same, the outcomes are different. Both players handballed to help their teams, no difference whatsoever.
They both cheated or they both didn't cheat but you can't possibly say Henry cheated and Suarez didn't.

What did Ireland get to right the wrong ? What did Ghana get to right the wrong ? I think you will see how incomparable the examples are.

I doubt we would all be discssing this if Henry had never done what he did.

steelcityblues

If Gyan is a professional, does he have to be some kind of robot, who should not feel anything like pressure? It aint that simple!

We all have our opinions, but some mind boggling crap being put forward in this thread tonight.

Mr.Nice Guy

cooker3 wrote: »

Their actions are exactly the same, the outcomes are different. Both players handballed to help their teams, no difference whatsoever.
They both cheated or they both didn't cheat but you can't possibly say Henry cheated and Suarez didn't.

There is plenty of difference. Suarez had to save his team with that split second decision. Henry did not.

Suarez was punished by being sent off and having a penalty awarded against his team. Henry was not.

Melion

Het-Field wrote: »

What did Ireland get to right the wrong ? What did Ghana get to right the wrong ? I think you will see how incomparable the examples are.

I doubt we would all be discssing this if Henry had never done what he did.

Ireland had 16 minute, Ghana had 1 single kick of a ball. Probably under the most pressure seen in a football match in a long time.

Het-Field

Melion wrote: »

So did Henry. That doesnt make either ok.

What Henry did is not something that all and sundry would have done. In Henry's case ,any would have taken the ball as having got away and left it. In suare's case he did something which is commonplace, and has occurred at the tournament already. Henry was not sanctioned, Suarez was. End of story.

Melion

Het-Field wrote: »

What Henry did is not something that all and sundry would have done. In Henry's case ,any would have taken the ball as having got away and left it. In suare's case he did something which is commonplace, and has occurred at the tournament already. Henry was not sanctioned, Suarez was. End of story.

Can you try that again in English please?

Het-Field

Melion wrote: »

Ireland had 16 minute, Ghana had 1 single kick of a ball. Probably under the most pressure seen in a football match in a long time.

One kick of the ball from 13 yards, with the knowledge that a reliable penalty taker had just been sent to the showers.

Ireland got nothing, except what they were going to have whther Gallas had put the ball in the net or otherwise. Again, you are scraping the bottom of the barrel to prve your floundering point.

namloc1980

Melion wrote: »

So did Henry. That doesnt make either ok.

Seriously get over the Henry thing. They are completely different scenarios. Henry got away with it. Suarez and Uruguay got punished.

Fizman

steelcityblues wrote: »

That was me btw. Tell me you would have been 'cool' with the possibility of a Henry winner in the final this year (before the tournament that is), and I would say back to you that you must be joking!
Same dreading feeling for Ghananians now, and no doubt some others!

Ok I'm going to be genuinely honest with you here ok. This may surprise you but I actually DO NOT have a problem with Thierry Henry (I can't actually believe I am discussing this topic btw).

The people I had issues with after 'that game' were the officials. Henry did what he did and we really need to get over it. He was playing for his country........and he contributed to getting his country to a World Cup finals. He did what he set out to do. He did his job.

The officials......they DID NOT do what they set out to do. They did not do their job. They are the reason this bollox has carried on. If that decision was given, as it should have been, Henry wouldn't have batted an eye lid and would have continued on his way. But because the incompetent officials saw otherwise, things have panned out like they have.

I have no beef with Thierry Henry. At the end of the day he was representing his country. I do have beef with FIFA as an organisation as I think they have allowed a rotten element into the sport because of their stone age approach to officiating.

Melion

namloc1980 wrote: »

Seriously get over the Henry thing. They are completely different scenarios. Henry got away with it. Suarez and Uruguay got punished.

Gyan missed, Suarez and Uruguay got away with it.

Melion

Het-Field wrote: »

One kick of the ball from 13 yards, with the knowledge that a reliable penalty taker had just been sent to the showers.

Ireland got nothing, except what they were going to have whther Gallas had put the ball in the net or otherwise. Again, you are scraping the bottom of the barrel to prve your floundering point.

What has Suarez being sent off got to do with Gyans penalty?

And i cant understand the second paragraph unfortunately.

Het-Field

Melion wrote: »

Can you try that again in English please?

Fine.

-How often do you see players do a Henry/Maradona ?

-How often do you see what Suarez did ?

-Many people would not seek to handle a ball to keep it alive when they are away that it is inevitably going to fall into the deadball area. On the other hand, many would handle the ball on the line, and accept the sanction of a red card and penalty.

eagle eye

titan18 wrote: »

It's a competitive game, you do what you can to win.Suarez did that tonight, and countless others have done it in the history of sport.Imo there's nothing wrong with it.As much as anyone criticizes it happening, ye generally don't care too much when it benefits your team or country.

I don't think anybody has said they wouldn't do it themselves.

This issue is that FIFA have so many stupid rules and this one along with goal-line technology are highlighted right now.

inforfun

Ah well... maybe the president of the Ghanaian (sp) FA will ask to be added as the 5th team to the semi finals now.

namloc1980

Melion wrote: »

Gyan missed, Suarez and Uruguay got away with it.

:pac: Seriously dude give it up.....you're floundering now!

A Primal Nut

Melion wrote: »

Gyan missed, Suarez and Uruguay got away with it.

So you think the referee should have awarded an automatic goal? Rediculous. Where would it end. What if its two yards of the line when the player handles it? Or is it any handball inside the six-yard box? You can't just change the rules on a whim.

fryup

i taught it was a good game with some good passages of play,,,,,but the dour crowd on RTE poo pooed it as dreadful

eagle eye

inforfun wrote: »

Ah well... maybe the president of the Ghanaian (sp) FA will ask to be added as the 5th team to the semi finals now.

Seriously, that joke was funny as in way, way back the first time somebody used it but its so dreadful now.

Het-Field

Melion wrote: »

What has Suarez being sent off got to do with Gyans penalty?

And i cant understand the second paragraph unfortunately.

When you are taking the piss out of my 11.30pm grammatics then I know the bottom of the barrel has been scraped through.

Suarez can take penalties. Suarez was prohibited from taking a penalty. Advantage Ghana

When Henry handled the ball, Ireland got NO PENALTY, NO RED CARD, and no advantage for any penalty shootout which may have arisen. Ireland were completely screwed by Henry. Ghana were not. They had the opportunity to right the wrong from 13 yards, and Suirez was punished on a personal basis with a red card, and a suspension.

Melion

Het-Field wrote: »

When you are taking the piss out of my 11.30pm grammatics then I know the bottom of the barrel has been scraped through.

Suarez can take penalties. Suarez was prohibited from taking a penalty. Advantage Ghana

When Henry handled the ball, Ireland got NO PENALTY, NO RED CARD, and no advantage for any penalty shootout which may have arisen. Ireland were completely screwed by Henry. Ghana were not. They had the opportunity to right the wrong from 13 yards, and Suirez was punished on a personal basis with a red card, and a suspension.

I cant understand how Suarez being sent off had anything to do with Gyans penalty or how it gave them an advantage?
Ghana were completely screwed by Suarez, he stopped a goal. The ball would have been in the net if it wasnt for his hand. How can you not see that?

Jesus Wept

titan18

eagle eye wrote: »

I don't think anybody has said they wouldn't do it themselves.

This issue is that FIFA have so many stupid rules and this one along with goal-line technology are highlighted right now.

People shouldn't criticize him if they'd do the same thing themselves.

I do agree with you on FIFA,albeit only with goal-line technology.The punishment for the handball on the line is fine.I'd actually lean more to it being unfair on the player getting sent off and a penalty being given.Penalties are usually scored, if it's missed it's generally the taker's fault.But I think the punishment should be dealt with on a case by case basis, rather than the blanket ruling FIFA have.

dolliemix

inforfun wrote: »

Ah well... maybe the president of the Ghanaian (sp) FA will ask to be added as the 5th team to the semi finals now.

Or the Ghanian Taoiseach might just call him

A Primal Nut

fryup wrote: »

i taught it was a good game with some good passages of play,,,,,but the dour crowd on RTE poo pooed it as dreadful

I agree. Don't know what match they were watching. It was the most exciting knockout game of the world cup so far for me, lots of chances, both teams really going for it and two great goals. Plus the excitement at the end.

The RTE lads presumably base their opinions purely on the quality of defending.

Melion

A Primal Nut wrote: »

So you think the referee should have awarded an automatic goal? Rediculous. Where would it end. What if its two yards of the line when the player handles it? Or is it any handball inside the six-yard box? You can't just change the rules on a whim.

Im not trying to change the rules

namloc1980

Melion wrote: »

I cant understand how Suarez being sent off had anything to do with Gyans penalty or how it gave them an advantage?
Ghana were completely screwed by Suarez, he stopped a goal. The ball would have been in the net if it wasnt for his hand. How can you not see that?

He was punished and conceded a penalty. How is that hard to understand? Was this your first time watching a football match?

A Primal Nut

Melion wrote: »

Im not trying to change the rules

So what are you suggesting should be done? Apart from a red card and a penalty?

seadnamac

This thread is bizarre.

Saurez handled the ball. It was seen by the official. The official awarded a penalty. Saurez received a red card. Which is exactly what should have happened.

Henry handled the ball, it was not seen and there was no punishment. Saurez handled the ball, it was seen and it was punished accordingly. The Henry incident has no relevance here whatsoever.

Move along now, nothing to see here.

eagle eye

titan18 wrote: »

People shouldn't criticize him if they'd do the same thing themselves.

I do agree with you on FIFA,albeit only with goal-line technology.The punishment for the handball on the line is fine.I'd actually lean more to it being unfair on the player getting sent off and a penalty being given.Penalties are usually scored, if it's missed it's generally the taker's fault.But I think the punishment should be dealt with on a case by case basis, rather than the blanket ruling FIFA have.

No if the rule came in that the goal stood then the punishment should probably be a yellow card for breaking the rules but thats it.

dolliemix

Het-Field wrote: »

When you are taking the piss out of my 11.30pm grammatics then I know the bottom of the barrel has been scraped through.

Suarez can take penalties. Suarez was prohibited from taking a penalty. Advantage Ghana

When Henry handled the ball, Ireland got NO PENALTY, NO RED CARD, and no advantage for any penalty shootout which may have arisen. Ireland were completely screwed by Henry. Ghana were not. They had the opportunity to right the wrong from 13 yards, and Suirez was punished on a personal basis with a red card, and a suspension.

Ireland could have proved themselves by scoring in the other 89 mins or whatever. And if they were a better team they would have.

I agree with Fizman on this. Henry should have been given a free away. But the fact that his handball was not picked up by the ref was not his fault.

...But I agree with you on the Ghana Suarez argument

Melion

A Primal Nut wrote: »

So what are you suggesting should be done? Apart from a red card and a penalty?

Nothing can be done. The ref did the right thing.

The point here is people trying to defend what Suarez did. Try and keep up

CorkMan

Goodbye Uruguay is all I can say. Hot favourites to be back in the capital of Uruguay before the final, whatever the capital is