Uruguay -v- Ghana, Q-Final

leninbenjamin · 03-07-2010 12:44pm

Straight reds automatically open up a disciplinary investigation into unsportsmanlike conduct.

everdead.ie · 03-07-2010 12:47pm

The only thing that can be said is that the ref was great he called it the last kick of the game he punished suarez for breaking the rules and gave Ghana the chance to rectify the situation, it was just unfortunate that Gyan hit the bar. Great for him to nail the next one in though

Ush1 · 03-07-2010 12:50pm

Great drama on this.

I think it's a real birth by fire for Ghana and African football for this to happen to them at this stage against a wily, battle hardened team of South Americans. Big learning curve for them.

What Suarez did was legislated for and he got punished. Both teams know the rules of handling a ball off the line before the game kicked off so what's the difference now it happened?

Pro. F · 03-07-2010 12:57pm

leninbenjamin wrote: »

Straight reds automatically open up a disciplinary investigation into unsportsmanlike conduct.

I'd forgotten about that. Still, since they are able and willing to investigate what happened it shows up the stupidity of them refusing to deal retroactively with things the ref has missed.

Pro. F · 03-07-2010 1:00pm

Ush1 wrote: »

Both teams know the rules of handling a ball off the line before the game kicked off so what's the difference now it happened?

Nothing has changed. There was an imbalance in the rules before the kick off and there's still an imbalance now.

lordgoat · 03-07-2010 1:06pm

Meh, don't see what the fuss is. Not trying to be snobby but anyone who plays on a team and was in the same position as Suarez would have probably done the same thing. I think i would have. He got caught and got punished. Situation over or so it should be. It's not like this is the first time it's happened. Had Ghana gone through would people be asking for Suarez to be banned from the 3rd/4th place play off - no.

Also why is Henry being mentioned in here. Completely different circumstances and move on.

lordgoat · 03-07-2010 1:07pm

Pro. F wrote: »

I'd forgotten about that. Still, since they are able and willing to investigate what happened it shows up the stupidity of them refusing to deal retroactively with things the ref has missed.

He has got to be get the same punishment as Kewell got, exact same crime in the same tournament.

nacho libre · 03-07-2010 1:09pm

let's be honest here. if it was an irish player in the same situation he'd more than likely have done the same thing as Suarez. if he did most Irish people would overlook the unsportsmanlike conduct.

I just hope the penalty miss doesn't haunt Gyan and we see him at the next World Cup in Brazil.

leninbenjamin · 03-07-2010 1:12pm

lordgoat wrote: »

He has got to be get the same punishment as Kewell got, exact same crime in the same tournament.

Oz were knocked out before a second match though.

karma_ · 03-07-2010 1:13pm

lordgoat wrote: »

He has got to be get the same punishment as Kewell got, exact same crime in the same tournament.

Anything other than this course of action would be a corruption of the rules and indefensible.

lordgoat · 03-07-2010 1:25pm

leninbenjamin wrote: »

Oz were knocked out before a second match though.

I'm not sure how this matters. Kewell gets a red card and a one match ban. That's the punishment. (apologies if this sounds snotty in a bit of a rush)

Ush1 · 03-07-2010 1:37pm

Pro. F wrote: »

Nothing has changed. There was an imbalance in the rules before the kick off and there's still an imbalance now.

What is the imbalance?

tommyhaas · 03-07-2010 1:43pm

Why are people comparing this to the Henry incident? Suarez didnt attempt to deceive the ref. He did it blatantly knowing he would be sent off and conceding a pen. He saw it as a good deal. Thats the rules of the game, he'd have been foolish not to do it.

Roy Keane is treated as a hero for going in hard on Zidane I think it was, when he was braking forward in the Champions lge semi against Juve in '99 and getting the booking that ruled him out of the final, its no different.

Ush1 · 03-07-2010 1:45pm

tommyhaas wrote: »

Why are people comparing this to the Henry incident? Suarez didnt attempt to deceive the ref. He did it blatantly knowing he would be sent off and conceding a pen. He saw it as a good deal. Thats the rules of the game, he'd have been foolish not to do it.

Roy Keane is treated as a hero for going in hard on Zidane I think it was, when he was braking forward in the Champions lge semi against Juve in '99 and getting the booking that ruled him out of the final, its no different.

Yep, AKA:

take_one_for_the_team_tshirt-p235698865135156771q6vb_400.jpg

Pro. F · 03-07-2010 1:54pm

Ush1 wrote: »

What is the imbalance?

Breaking the rules gave a clear advantage even when the ref handed out the punishment.

He denied a certain goal, not just a goal scoring opportunity. All Ghana got in recompense was a goal scoring opportunity (pen) and a slight advantage in the shoot out.

If you deny a certain goal then it should be a penalty goal, otherwise breaking the rules gives a clear advantage when it's that late in the game.

Ush1 · 03-07-2010 1:57pm

Pro. F wrote: »

Breaking the rules gave a clear advantage even when the ref handed out the punishment.

He denied a certain goal, not just a goal scoring opportunity. All Ghana got in recompense was a goal scoring opportunity (pen) and a slight advantage in the shoot out.

If you deny a certain goal then it should be a penalty goal, otherwise breaking the rules gives a clear advantage when it's that late in the game.

But that's all you ever get? What are you proposing?

That's not an imbalance by the way, both teams knew this rule before they played the game and knew the consequences. The goal posts were not moved. It didn't favour either team.

Suaraz made the right call.

Het-Field · 03-07-2010 2:01pm

Im astounded at the response to this event. Henry's handball is clearly still at the forefront of people's minds. Otherwise, Suarez would not be called a cheat. The reason for that it because time and time again, last man back/on the line handball incidents have occurred, and people have accepted the way to deal with it.

As has been repeatedly mentioned, there is a protocol for dealing with this type of thing. The protocol was adhered to. No fuss has ever been stimulated by similar events in the past. It just seems that because Gyan missed the penalty (part of the FIFA imposed scnction) Suarez is now being called a cheat.

_Bella_ · 03-07-2010 2:02pm

Oh Suarez:

"The 'Hand of God' now belongs to me. Mine is the real 'Hand Of God'. I made the best save of the tournament. Sometimes in training I play as a goalkeeper so it was worth it. There was no alternative but for me to do that."

Pro. F · 03-07-2010 2:14pm

Ush1 wrote: »

But that's all you ever get? What are you proposing?

Read my post and you will see what I'm proposing.

Ush1 wrote: »

That's not an imbalance by the way, both teams knew this rule before they played the game and knew the consequences. The goal posts were not moved. It didn't favour either team.

I didn't say it favoured either team. I said it favoured the team that broke the rules in that situation. That is clearly a flaw in the rules.

Just because both teams agreed to the rules before the game doesn't mean the rules are perfect. I wouldn't expect the average professional footballer to know much about game design and balancing.

Ush1 wrote: »

Suaraz made the right call.

I agree. Suarez did what anybody would do considering the current rules.

Leiva · 03-07-2010 2:21pm

Folks that mention this incident and Henry in the same breath are wrong .

He handled the ball.
Got caught and red carded/ 1 match ban.
Ref made the peno be last kick of the game.
Peno missed.
end of .

Henry incident never has ref involved

GEM_13 · 03-07-2010 2:46pm

I think its unfair to class him as a cheat-he did what he had to do.

I do,however,think that the rule should be changed similar to the way they changed the last man back rule.If there is any doubt about the player being last man back then its a yellow card.If its clear then its a red.

The same should apply to what happened last night.If it is definitely going in the net,then the goal should stand and the player should be red carded.
This will not be the last time an incident like this will arise.Its not just because its high profile game that this needs to be addressed.It's not just because he missed either.This probably happens every week somewhere around the world.

I know Ghana had an advantage in that they had a chance to win the game from the penalty but if the ball went in then they had a goal and they were in the semi-final.

Which scenario is more beneficial...

namloc1980 · 03-07-2010 2:57pm

GEM_13 wrote: »

I think its unfair to class him as a cheat-he did what he had to do.

I do,however,think that the rule should be changed similar to the way they changed the last man back rule.If there is any doubt about the player being last man back then its a yellow card.If its clear then its a red.

The same should apply to what happened last night.If it is definitely going in the net,then the goal should stand and the player should be red carded.
This will not be the last time an incident like this will arise.Its not just because its high profile game that this needs to be addressed.It's not just because he missed either.This probably happens every week somewhere around the world.

I know Ghana had an advantage in that they had a chance to win the game from the penalty but if the ball went in then they had a goal and they were in the semi-final.

Which scenario is more beneficial...

Sorry but that makes no sense. Award the goal AND send the player off is total nonsense!

GEM_13 · 03-07-2010 3:23pm

namloc1980 wrote: »

Sorry but that makes no sense. Award the goal AND send the player off is total nonsense!

I originally had yellow card in but the more i thought about it,the more i felt yellow would not suffice.
It is a professional foul after all which is a red-card offence in the rules of the game so TOTAL NONSENSE it's not..

Carcharodon · 03-07-2010 3:29pm

namloc1980 wrote: »

Sorry but that makes no sense. Award the goal AND send the player off is total nonsense!

I agree, some people in this thread are really making no sense. I think people may be bored and are just trying to stir up some sort of controversy over something that has been part of football since it began. Surely people can't feel that sorry for Ghana, it is not as if they dominated the match.

On another note, could the mods introduce some sort of ban on mentioning the Henry handball, it is getting really old. Just like that one on MCD promotions being discussed.

Carcharodon · 03-07-2010 3:33pm

GEM_13 wrote: »

I originally had yellow card in but the more i thought about it,the more i felt yellow would not suffice.
It is a professional foul after all which is a red-card offence in the rules of the game so TOTAL NONSENSE it's not..

Thats your opinion and you are entitled to it but I don't think many would agree. It has been the way it is for as long as I remember and I have never heard of anyone not happy with how the situation is enforced up until now when a few internet posters fell like they know better and are maybe ltting emotions get in the way.

GEM_13 · 03-07-2010 3:36pm

The question is-Is it a professional foul? The answer to that is yes so it is a red card if the laws of the game are followed

_blank_ · 03-07-2010 3:37pm

Carcharodon wrote: »

On another note, could the mods introduce some sort of ban on mentioning the Henry handball, it is getting really old. Just like that one on MCD promotions being discussed.

Yes please.

Carcharodon · 03-07-2010 3:43pm

GEM_13 wrote: »

The question is-Is it a professional foul? The answer to that is yes so it is a red card if the laws of the game are followed

And the laws of the game were followed so whats your point ?

Carcharodon · 03-07-2010 3:44pm

Des wrote: »

Yes please.

Your a mod, blow your mod horn and summon the mods to address this

_blank_ · 03-07-2010 3:45pm

Awarding a goal in that instance would be absolutely, unequivocally, one hundred percent stupidity. It didn't cross the line, no goal.

rugby-style "penalty goals"? Fúck off tbh.

_blank_ · 03-07-2010 3:45pm

Carcharodon wrote: »

Your a mod, blow your mod horn and summon the mods to address this

Blow my mod horn?

Saucy

GEM_13 · 03-07-2010 4:06pm

Carcharodon wrote: »

And the laws of the game were followed so whats your point ?

You stated earlier that it would be nonsense to give the goal and send the player off.
My point is that if the rule stated that the "goal" should stand then the laws of the game still call for the player to be sent off for a professional foul.
My original post stated that i think the rule should be changed-i'm not saying the referee didn't follow the laws of the game

Carcharodon · 03-07-2010 4:15pm

GEM_13 wrote: »

You stated earlier that it would be nonsense to give the goal and send the player off.
My point is that if the rule stated that the "goal" should stand then the laws of the game still call for the player to be sent off for a professional foul.
My original post stated that i think the rule should be changed-i'm not saying the referee didn't follow the laws of the game

Ok Ok, I get it, Your point is based on "if" the rule was changed. No point in really discussing the ins and outs of an imaginary rule, but you realize giving the goal and sending a player off makes no sense.

namloc1980 · 03-07-2010 4:43pm

GEM_13 wrote: »

You stated earlier that it would be nonsense to give the goal and send the player off.
My point is that if the rule stated that the "goal" should stand then the laws of the game still call for the player to be sent off for a professional foul.
My original post stated that i think the rule should be changed-i'm not saying the referee didn't follow the laws of the game

It just doesn't make any sense to award a goal and give out a red card. Let's look at last night's game. Suarez doesn't put up his hand, ball goes in and goal awarded. Suarez puts up his hand but goal is awarded anyway! Then sending the guy off is a joke and makes no sense as putting up his hand has no bearing on the goal being awarded.

Hippo · 03-07-2010 4:44pm

Des wrote: »

Awarding a goal in that instance would be absolutely, unequivocally, one hundred percent stupidity. It didn't cross the line, no goal.

rugby-style "penalty goals"? Fúck off tbh.

Why is it stupid? Lampard's shot crossed the line and that wasn't a goal. Trying to do something about an obvious flaw in the laws of the game is at least worthy of discussion.

03-07-2010 4:48pm

Hippo wrote: »

Why is it stupid? Lampard's shot crossed the line and that wasn't a goal. Trying to do something about an obvious flaw in the laws of the game is at least worthy of discussion.

Eh, how is that in any way relevant? Lampard's goal wasn't given because of a failure to apply the laws. In Suarez's case, the laws were applied perfectly

Carcharodon · 03-07-2010 4:50pm

Hippo wrote: »

Why is it stupid? Lampard's shot crossed the line and that wasn't a goal. Trying to do something about an obvious flaw in the laws of the game is at least worthy of discussion.

Oh dear god, read back on what was said and interpret correctly what he meant.

ullu · 03-07-2010 5:09pm

I'm surprised people are focusing solely on Suarez and not paying any attention to that fact that Gyan took a poor penalty.

CR 7 · 03-07-2010 5:22pm

ullu wrote: »

I'm surprised people are focusing solely on Suarez and not paying any attention to that fact that Gyan took a poor penalty.

It wasn't necessarily a poor penalty, he had the right idea, making sure it wouldn't be saved. If he had hit a penalty like their last two in the shoot-out then it could be called poor.

Going that high has a high degree of difficulty, an inch lower and he'd be a hero.

I wouldn't be critical at all of Gyan, he showed with the second penalty that he has a perfect mentality for it.

ullu · 03-07-2010 5:50pm

Park Ji Sung wrote: »

I wouldn't be critical at all of Gyan, he showed with the second penalty that he has a perfect mentality for it.

Fair play to him for taking a second one but if there absolutely has to be a 'villain' of the piece, it should be him (Suarez saved his nation's hopes, Gyan threw them away).

Let's hope the Ghanaian press is more forgiving than what we're used to here.

Pro. F · 03-07-2010 6:08pm

Des wrote: »

Awarding a goal in that instance would be absolutely, unequivocally, one hundred percent stupidity.

Why?

Des wrote: »

It didn't cross the line, no goal.

Only as the laws stand now.

ullu · 03-07-2010 6:13pm

Pro. F wrote: »

Only as the laws stand now.

I look forward to the day that football scores resemble those in GAA due to implied goals.

What else would qualify - shots keepers had no right saving?

karma_ · 03-07-2010 6:13pm

Pro. F wrote: »

Why?

Only as the laws stand now.

What your suggesting is sheer lunacy. You can't be awarding goals when the ball does not cross the line, in fact sometimes when the ball crosses the line it isn't even awarded!

johnmcdnl · 03-07-2010 6:32pm

In the rules that in place today Suarez got sent off and gave away a penalty - yes fair according to the rules today...

but that's completely besides the point - that was clear and blatant cheating

making a player have to take a penalty to score when it was clearly already going to be a goal is just ridiculous - it was a goal if he hadn't cheated - there's no IF about it...

there really should be some form of amendment or something to prevent something like that from every happening again - Ghana had a goal - they would have won - yes he's a hero in Uruguay but the fact that him doing that resulted in Ghana being beaten is just completely against the entire spirit of sports...

Pro. F · 03-07-2010 6:34pm

ullu wrote: »

I look forward to the day that football scores resemble those in GAA due to implied goals.

The suggested rule change wouldn't lead to that. How many times a game does someone handle it on the line to prevent a clear goal?

ullu wrote: »

What else would qualify - shots keepers had no right saving?

No, that's retarded. Do you want to have a sensible discussion or a retarded discussion?

karma_ wrote: »

What your suggesting is sheer lunacy. You can't be awarding goals when the ball does not cross the line,

I'll ask again. Why not?

karma_ wrote: »

in fact sometimes when the ball crosses the line it isn't even awarded!

So what does that prove?

ullu · 03-07-2010 6:37pm

Pro. F wrote: »

No, that's retarded. Do you want to have a sensible discussion or a retarded discussion?

Well it was the latter to begin with from your 'only as the law stands' comment. No point changing tack now.

namloc1980 · 03-07-2010 6:41pm

johnmcdnl wrote: »

In the rules that in place today Suarez got sent off and gave away a penalty - yes fair according to the rules today...

but that's completely besides the point - that was clear and blatant cheating

It wasn't "cheating". He breached a rule of the game and was dealt with according to those rules! Why is that so hard for people to understand?

Pro. F wrote: »

I'll ask again. Why not?

The ball didn't cross the line therefore awarding a goal is nonsense.

Pro. F · 03-07-2010 6:47pm

ullu wrote: »

Well it was the latter to begin with from your 'only as the law stands' comment. No point changing tack now.

I see what you did there. Clever.

So, can you put forward any reasonable argument as to why changing the laws in this case would be retarded?

ullu · 03-07-2010 6:52pm

There is a risk/reward ratio attached to every decision we make, including sport. Suarez was suitably punished after assessing his options in a splits second.

The rules currently in place are fair and balanced and I feel people are over reacting as the missed penalty was the last kick of the game. There would not be a furore if Suarez handballed three minutes into extra time.

If you were to introduce a 'deserved' goal rule or whatever you want to call it, it would make a mockery of the current punishment system and would require an overhaul of how football is played (imo anyway).

Pro. F · 03-07-2010 6:55pm

namloc1980 wrote: »

The ball didn't cross the line therefore awarding a goal is nonsense.

I'm suggesting that when a clear goal (note, not a goal scoring opportunity but a goal) is denied by a deliberate breaking of the laws then a penalty goal should be awarded. Why would that not work? And just saying ''it's madness'' is not an argument.

Uruguay -v- Ghana, Q-Final

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