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Uruguay -v- Ghana, Q-Final

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Comments

  • #702
    lordgoat
    Moderators, Music Moderators Posts: 11,373 Mod ✭✭✭✭lordgoat


    Pro. F wrote: »

    I think you're wrong and I think your argument doesn't hold up to scrutiny. Here's some important questions:
    Did Uruguay gain an advantage from breaking the rules in this instance? (That question applies to before the penalty kick was taken)

    Did Uruguay gain an advantage from between the handball and the penalty kick? I'm not sure what you're getting at. Of course they gained an advantage. Did Ghana gain an advantage from the handball. Yes they got a penalty. Crime - Punishment.


    Was the punishment sufficient to deter people from breaking that rule in that situation?

    See here i'm not sure if you are trying to make this an isolated incident. It's not. It's happened before and will probably happen again. If i was in the quarter final of a cup i would gladly do the same thing. I'd also expect someone on the opposite team to do it. I also don't believe there would be a big enough punishment to stop a player handling in this situation. You'd still do it and hope the ref misses it.


    I'd also point out that the main reason people break rules is to gain advantage. If there was such a problem with this rule it should have been highlighted before the world cup. To me it's all just whinging on Ghana's part. It's harsh but so be it. As i said before if Ghana had scored the pen would people be still asking for a 2 match ban for Suarez - No they wouldn't.


  • #703
    Pro. F
    Registered Users Posts: 12,219 ✭✭✭✭Pro. F


    SlickRic wrote: »
    suarez was right to do what he did, the rules are fine IMO. yes it was slightly slimy, but he took the hit for his team. no difference between it and a professional foul really.

    This type of handball is more clear cut than professional fouls because the ball was actually going into the goal whereas with the professional foul the attacker hasn't even struck the ball yet.
    SlickRic wrote: »
    if Gyan had had the balls he should've had, and scored, nobody would be worrying about any rule changes.

    i don't sympathise with any footballer who can't hit the target from 12 yards; pressure or not.

    a penalty goal, IMO, while it might be workable-ish, has the potential for too many grey areas, and for the amount of times it happens, it's not worth making the rule.

    My point would stand whether Gyan had scored or not. Uruguay were able to trade a certain goal for an uncertain one by breaking the rules. It is irrelevant whether the penalty kick was converted or not.

    Point out these grey areas and we'll see if they are in fact a problem. It's very easy to make a vague ''it could never work'' criticism but you need to be able to actually back that up.

    The fact that this situation doesn't arise very often is also irrelevant. You talk is if rule changes are massively complicated and difficult to do successfully, they are not.
    lordgoat wrote: »
    Did Uruguay gain an advantage from between the handball and the penalty kick? I'm not sure what you're getting at. Of course they gained an advantage. Did Ghana gain an advantage from the handball. Yes they got a penalty. Crime - Punishment.
    So you agree that Uruguay gained an advantage (before the pen was struck) even though they were caught and punished. If the punishment for breaking the rules is clearly outweighed by the benefit of breaking the rules then that is a failure of the rules. The handball rule is meant to de-incentivise handling the ball, in this situation it fails to do that.

    Ghana did not gain an advantage when you add it all up. They had a certain goal denied them, by an illegal action, and replaced with only an uncertain goal (a penalty). That trade is grossly disadvantageous for the team that has done nothing wrong.
    lordgoat wrote: »
    See here i'm not sure if you are trying to make this an isolated incident. It's not. It's happened before and will probably happen again. If i was in the quarter final of a cup i would gladly do the same thing. I'd also expect someone on the opposite team to do it.
    Obviously this is not an isolated incident. Obviously it's happened before. Obviously it will happen again.

    Why do people keep on mentioning how they would do the same thing in that situation? It's like people think I am condemning what Suarez did. For the umpteenth fùcking time: I don't have a problem with what Suarez did, I have a problem with the faulty rule.

    If anything you are just proving my point for me - in that situation you would do the same thing because it would benefit your team, even if you were caught. That is exactly my point.
    lordgoat wrote: »
    I also don't believe there would be a big enough punishment to stop a player handling in this situation. You'd still do it and hope the ref misses it.
    I'd also point out that the main reason people break rules is to gain advantage.
    Yes the reason people break rules is to gain advantage but when they are caught the punishment is meant to ensure they lose that illegal advantage.

    Obviously the proposed rule change would never stop players who handle the ball and just hope the ref misses it. That is the same with every single rule in every sport; no matter how harsh the punishment there will always be some player who tries it and hopes the ref won't catch him. By your logic here we shouldn't bother with punishment of bad tackles - players constantly foul hoping they won't get caught, we can't come up with a harsh enough punishment to stop them doing that, let's scrap that rule so.

    At least if this handball issue was improved, when players are caught breaking the rule they wouldn't still benefit.
    lordgoat wrote: »
    If there was such a problem with this rule it should have been highlighted before the world cup. To me it's all just whinging on Ghana's part. It's harsh but so be it. As i said before if Ghana had scored the pen would people be still asking for a 2 match ban for Suarez - No they wouldn't.

    I've shown the problem with the rule. That problem stands, regardless of when it was highlighted. The fact that it may not have been highlighted before the world cup is irrelevant - can we never point out any newly discovered flaws in the rules when we notice them in future? It most likely has been discussed sometime previously anyway. I know I have noticed it before and discussed it with my mates.
    I'm not from Ghana (although I was cheering for them) so it's not just Ghana whining. I'm not asking for Suarez to get a two match ban. If Ghana had scored the penalty the issue with the rule would still stand and I still would think it needs to be fixed.


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