Uruguay -v- Ghana, Q-Final

titan18

Also,I've seen complain in a lot of threads if a penalty is given,which are scored more often than not,and a red card is given,it's an unfair punishment.

Melion

kingshankly wrote: »

so If somebody fouls someone as there about to shoot is this cheating as he is denying them a goal

He's not denying them a goal. He is denying them a goal scoring opportunity.

Suarez denied Ghana a certain goal.

Wolfe Tone

If he wasnt caught and punished and the peno given then I would be quick to bash him.

Melion

Melion wrote: »

It was a goal if he didnt use his hands, thats cheating

By your reckoning a bad tackle is cheating, wasting time is cheating etc etc.

Here's the official rules.

Law 12 Fouls and Miscounduct.

A player is sent off and shown the red card if he commits any of the following seven offences:

1. is guilty of serious foul play
2. is guilty of violent conduct
3. spits at an opponent or any other person
4. denies an opponent a goal or an obvious goal-scoring opportunity by deliberately handling the ball (this does not apply to a goalkeeper within his own penalty area)
5. denies an obvious goal-scoring opportunity to an opponent moving towards the player's goal by an offence punishable by a free kick or a penalty kick
6. uses offensive, insulting or abusive language
7. receives a second caution in the same match

Het-Field

Pepe LeFrits wrote: »

He cheated and was punished for it. Unfortunately in this particular scenario the rules don't appropriately punish the cheat. A goal should be awarded and the player sent off. If the punishment matched the crime, the player wouldn't do it.

I would be open to this.

Melion

Het-Field wrote: »

Not at all. Henry knew that if he got away with what he did the bounty was a place at the world cup finals. Suarez's foul was going to end his world cup, and possible do nothing for Uruguay. He was also deprived of the opportunity of taking a penalty, despite being a prolific striker. Did Ireland get a chance to right Henry's wrong ? No. Did Ghana get a chance to right Suarez's wrong ? Yes

Did Gallas score in the last second of the match? No! Ireland had plenty of time to right the wrong but couldnt.

Wolfe Tone

Melion wrote: »

He's not denying them a goal. He is denying them a goal scoring opportunity.

Suarez denied Ghana a certain goal.

What about when someone rounds the keeper and he sticks out a leg and brings him down? Award the goal then?

super_furry

If Suarez doesn't blatantly and deliberately break the rules of the game, Ghana go through. Don't so how anyone could call it anything but cheating.

dreamers75

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

If he wasnt caught and punished and the peno given then I would be quick to bash him.

Why him? its the refs job to spot and he did.


Serious drama queens in here, he handled and was sent off and they got a peno.

Seriously how hard is it to figure that the rules were applied during the game.


Henry did the same and got away with it....meh

baldbear

why were the lads talking about the premiership, man utd bla bla bla and not discusiing the penalties or much of the game?

Het-Field

Melion wrote: »

He's not denying them a goal. He is denying them a goal scoring opportunity.

Suarez denied Ghana a certain goal.

It was at head height. If he was more composed Suarez may have saved it legitimately.

Melion

namloc1980 wrote: »

:rolleyes: Apples and oranges. You're not comparing like with like. Suarez was sent off and conceded a penalty. Henry was rewarded with a place in the World Cup. You simply can't compare the two scenarios.

Forget what each player got it their actions for a second. They both handballed it, its the exact same thing.

UpTheSlashers

It was a foul, the same as last man back taking down a forward about to roll the ball into an empty net. He commited the foul and was justly punished. Ghana failed to capitalise with the peno. Not cheating IMO and not comparable with the Henry incident

eagle eye

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

Agreed. Desperate times call for desperate measures. Those who say Suarez cheated, what should he have done? Allow the ball to go in?

Thats a two pronged question.

Suarez did cheat.

Whether or not he should have done it is a totally separate issue.

Johner

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

What about when someone rounds the keeper and he sticks out a leg and brings him down? Award the goal then?

The person might miss after rounding the keeper. The Ball was 100 per cent going in for Ghana.

kingshankly

don't remember everyone calling Phil Neville a cheat when he did the same

joseph brand

inforfun wrote: »

Let me get this right.

Suarez is an hero and Henry is a cheat?

Mmmmkay....

At least Suarez's handball resulted in a penalty and red card.

Henry's handball resulted in us getting rode up the hole.

Ghana got a second chance. We didn't.

BIG DIFFERENCE.

Melion

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

What about when someone rounds the keeper and he sticks out a leg and brings him down? Award the goal then?

Still only a goal scoring opportunity until the ball is rolling towards the empty net. There is nothing to say that the striker would round the keeper and then fluff his shot and send it wide.

Melion

joseph brand wrote: »

At least Suarez's handball resulted in a penalty and red card.

Henry's handball resulted in us getting rode up the hole.

Ghana got a second chance. We didn't.

BIG DIFFERENCE.

What minute did Gallas score the goal in that match?
Plenty of time to score

kingshankly

kingshankly wrote: »

don't remember everyone calling Phil Neville a cheat when he did the same

I'd imagine he was called plenty of other things !!

steelcityblues

There would be something greatly unjust if Suarez came back for the final, and scored the decisive goal.

It is a scenario I wouldn't rule out happening, but fingers crossed it won't!

Melion

kingshankly wrote: »

don't remember everyone calling Phil Neville a cheat when he did the same

Yes they did(i presume you mean in the Derby)

Mr.Nice Guy

Let's be serious.

Henry was in his opponent's half and didn't need to handle the ball. He didn't experience punishment or admit his offence until later.

Suarez was on his own goal-line and NEEDED to handle the ball to save his team. He did experience punishment and the offence was acknowledged.

The situations are utterly and completely different.

Mars Bar

Pepe LeFrits wrote: »

He cheated and was punished for it. Unfortunately in this particular scenario the rules don't appropriately punish the cheat. A goal should be awarded and the player sent off. If the punishment matched the crime, the player wouldn't do it.

The aim of the game is to get the ball between the two posts so awarding a goal when the ball doesn't cross the line would be silly.

I see what you're getting at but if that ever happened, I think I would stop watching the game completely.

Het-Field

Melion wrote: »

What minute did Gallas score the goal in that match?
Plenty of time to score

Bo***cks.

We were not given a shot from 13 yards, with an opportunity to play against 10 men, with a prohibition on one of France's top strikers prohibited from taking a penalty. All we got was an equalising goal. We got nothing, suggesting we had 13 mins to score to prove your point is scraping the bottom of the barrel.

Melion

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

Let's be serious.

Henry was in his opponent's half and didn't need to handle the ball. He didn't experience punishment or admit his offence until later.

Suarez was on his own goal-line and NEEDED to handle the ball to save his team. He did experience punishment and the offence was acknowledged.

The situations are utterly and completely different.

Henry did need to handle the ball, he couldnt control it with his foot and wanted to get his country to the world cup.

They are the exact same thing.

Melion

Het-Field wrote: »

Bo***cks.

We were not given a shot from 13 yards, with an opportunity to play against 10 men, with a prohibition on one of France's top strikers prohibited from taking a penalty. All we got was an equalising goal. We got nothing, suggesting we had 13 mins to score to prove your point is scraping the bottom of the barrel.

Ireland had plenty of time to score another goal in that match.

Can't believe some people are still going on about Henry.

Get over it, seriously.

redout

Delighted for Uruguay - hope they knock the Dutch out even though its a tough ask.

lisbon_lions

EVERYONE would have done the same thing in Suarez's position. He had to do it, I would not fault the lad at all. It was dealt with there and then, correctly. Ghana had a penalty to go through.

namloc1980

Melion wrote: »

Forget what each player got it their actions for a second. They both handballed it, its the exact same thing.

You just can't compare the two scenarios and to do so is ridiculous!!

So many drama queens in here. Ghana got the peno and couldn't score. Uruguay won the shootout. Simple as that. Suarez did what anybody would do in that scenario

Mr.Nice Guy

Melion wrote: »

Henry did need to handle the ball, he couldnt control it with his foot and wanted to get his country to the world cup.

They are the exact same thing.

No, he didn't need to. Henry's team was not facing elimination in that moment. You said yourself there were plenty of minutes left, and Henry could have made an effort to use his leg. In this game tonight time was almost up and if Suarez doesn't use his hand in that split second then his country is out.

Totally different scenarios.

Het-Field

Melion wrote: »

Ireland had plenty of time to score another goal in that match.

Did we get a shot from 13 yards out, a massive boost in confidence, and a demoralised opposition who have lost a talisman ? No ! The way you are talking it would appear that you are now siding with Henry

Melion

I would love to see peoples reactions if it was Ireland - France tonight and Henry did what Suarez did. Would everyone be quick to defend him?

inforfun

It is simple really.

You either call all 3 of Maradona/Henry/Suarez cheats or neither of them.

The advantages for their teams might have been different in "size" but all 3 of them broke a rule and their teams made a profit out if it.

Melion

Het-Field wrote: »

Did we get a shot from 13 yards out, a massive boost in confidence, and a demoralised opposition who have lost a talisman ? No ! The way you are talking it would appear that you are now siding with Henry

Ireland had 16 minutes to score another goal, plenty of time.

Henry stuck his hand out, like any player would do and got away with it.

Het-Field

Melion wrote: »

I would love to see peoples reactions if it was Ireland - France tonight and Henry did what Suarez did. Would everyone be quick to defend him?

I would be annoyed from an Irish perspective. But I would curse Keano for missing a penalty like that. Ghana then had a chance to right the wrong in the penos, and lost that. John Mensah's penalty was unforgivable.

I wouldnt feel there was any need to defend Henry.

Melion

Melion wrote: »

I would love to see peoples reactions if it was Ireland - France tonight and Henry did what Suarez did. Would everyone be quick to defend him?

And what if it was Ireland v England and Kevin Doyle did the same as Saurez and we beat England on pens to advance to the semi's.

Doyle would be a fúcking hero.

Het-Field

Melion wrote: »

Ireland had 16 minutes to score another goal, plenty of time.

Henry stuck his hand out, like any player would do and got away with it.

So now you condone cheats ? Ireland we not given a golden opportunity to right the wrong. Naturally heads would wilt.

dfx-

If Gyan scored, I doubt there'd be less claims of cheating or denying a goal.

The other Uruguayan also tried to handle it...it's instinctive at every level.

Melion

Het-Field wrote: »

I would be annoyed from an Irish perspective. But I would curse Keano for missing a penalty like that. Ghana then had a chance to right the wrong in the penos, and lost that. John Mensah's penalty was unforgivable.

I wouldnt feel there was any need to defend Henry.

My bollox!
You would only give out about Keane missing the penalty?
No mention of Henry stopping a 100% certain, nailed on goal that would have put Ireland into a world cup semi-final?

Mr.Nice Guy

inforfun wrote:

It is simple really.

You either call all 3 of Maradona/Henry/Suarez cheats or neither of them.

The advantages for their teams might have been different in "size" but all 3 of them broke a rule and their teams made a profit out if it.

No, that's too simple. Maradona and Henry were not staring certain elimination in the face when they used their hands. This is the key point!

I'll ask again, ideally, what should Suarez have done?

Oh and if Henry had done what Suarez did tonight I could not begrudge his actions. I'd call him plenty of names under the sun alright, but cheater would not be one of them.

Melion

rarnes1 wrote: »

And what if it was Ireland v England and Kevin Doyle did the same as Saurez and we beat England on pens to advance to the semi's.

Doyle would be a fúcking hero.

So double standards then?

baldbear

Ahh would yis stop talking about Ireland. Ireland were brutal, they couldn't beat a bad French,Bulgarian, Italian or even Montenegro team.

Suarez did what any other player would do in the last minute of a wc quarter final match.Respect to him. He got punished.

xtal191

I cant believe people are saying he cheated its ridicilous and its nothing like what Henry did at all! About time people got over the whole henry incident. I bet if you were to ask anyone involved in football, pundits, players, coaches etc if they thought Suarez cheated the answer would be no!!

Melion

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

Oh and if Henry had done what Suarez did tonight I could not begrudge his actions. I'd call him plenty of names under the sun alright, but cheater would not be one of them.

Thats bóllox and you know it.

Mr.Nice Guy

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

No, that's too simple. Maradona and Henry were not staring certain elimination in the face when they used their hands. This is the key point!

I'll ask again, ideally, what should Suarez have done?

Oh and if Henry had done what Suarez did tonight I could not begrudge his actions. I'd call him plenty of names under the sun alright, but cheater would not be one of them.

Also more importantly Suarez was punished for his offence with a sending off and a penalty awarded against his team.

Maradonna and Henry got away with it.

Melion

xtal191 wrote: »

I cant believe people are saying he cheated its ridicilous and its nothing like what Henry did at all! About time people got over the whole henry incident. I bet if you were to ask anyone involved in football, pundits, players, coaches etc if they thought Suarez cheated the answer would be no!!

They would all say he had to do it, it was a natural thing. That doesnt mean its not cheating.

Pro. F

Melion wrote: »

Did Gallas score in the last second of the match? No! Ireland had plenty of time to right the wrong but couldnt.

This is just so wrong-headed. Ghana were awarded a penalty (which I think isn't enough btw), Ireland weren't.
Suarez cheated - Ghana got a peno
Henry cheated - Ireland got to play on the rest of the time which they would have had anyway

Pepe LeFrits wrote: »

He cheated and was punished for it. Unfortunately in this particular scenario the rules don't appropriately punish the cheat. A goal should be awarded and the player sent off. If the punishment matched the crime, the player wouldn't do it.

I agree with this. That rule needs to be fixed.

Mr.Nice Guy

Melion wrote: »

Thats bóllox and you know it.

Eh, no it's not. Still not going to answer my question? What should Suarez have done instead?