Cain Velasquez. *UFC 116 Spoilers*

MMAJunkie

MMAJunkie wrote:

As expected the winner of Saturday's UFC 116 headliner between heavyweight champion Brock Lesnar (4-1 MMA, 3-1 UFC) and interim title-holder Shane Carwin (12-0 MMA, 4-0 UFC) next will fight undefeated contender Cain Velasquez (8-0 MMA, 6-0 UFC).

UFC president Dana White previously hinted at the plans, and he today confirmed them with MMAjunkie.com (www.mmajunkie.com).

"Cain fights the winner of this fight, probably as soon as possible," White told MMAjunkie.com. "Cain's been waiting a long time."

Velasquez staked claim to a title shot in February with a quick first-round knockout of Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira at UFC 110. The fight was Velasquez's eighth straight and followed additional UFC wins over Brad Morris, Jake O'Brien, Denis Stojnic, Cheick Kongo and Ben Rothwell.

The former NCAA Division I All-American wrestler actually signed with the UFC after just two pro bouts, primarily because he and American Kickboxing Academy trainer Javier Mendez struggled to find opponents in outside organizations. Velasquez actually sat out of competition from December 2006 to April 2008 after one opponent after another pulled out of scheduled fightS.

He'll now keep a close eye on the outcome of Saturday's headliner, which is likely to determine the world's No. 1 heavyweight. The heavyweight title-unification bout is expected to produce one of the company's biggest PPV audiences and has already resulted in a virtual sellout of the MGM Grand Garden Arena in Las Vegas.

http://mmajunkie.com/news/19769/ufcs-white-confirms-velasquez-fights-ufc-116s-lesnar-vs-carwin-winner.mma#comments

In my opinion he could beat either by domination on the ground I think he's a beast and either way he's a future UFC Heavyweight Champion.
What do you think would happen in a fight between Velasquez-Carwin or Velasquez-Lesnar?
Could he beat either?

rovert

Thats the plan for the November 2009 Brock-Carwin. Essentially the mentality of the time was that they were going to feed Carwin to Brock ahead of the Cain-Brock fight, how times change and things are less certain to all in July 2010.

Mr. CooL ICE

Well, he is somewhat smaller than Lesnar and Carwin. If he reached the 2nd round against Carwin, he would probably win, but I would reckon he would beat Lesnar with superior wrestling and sheer relentlessness

pablohoney87

LordChessington wrote: »

but I would reckon he would beat Lesnar with superior wrestling and sheer relentlessness

Thats a pretty bold statement.
I believe that cain is the better technical wrestler but size and strength matched with being a fantastic wrestler would make it very hard for cain to outwrestle him. But relentlessness and much better striking would proobably be the difference between them.

Sid_Justice

what's with the spoiler tags?

pablohoney87

Sid_Justice wrote: »

what's with the spoiler tags?

After tonight id imagine it will be filled with people analysing the fight and comparing cain to the winner. Preemptive spoiler tag.

Sid_Justice

Sid_Justice wrote: »

what's with the spoiler tags?

I thought that after 116 people would say Brock/Carwin is going to demolish Cain or something along those lines, hereby ruining the event for people who didn't see it.

rovert

You did the right thing considering last weekend and Fedor.

Burkatron

pablohoney87 wrote: »

Thats a pretty bold statement.
I believe that cain is the better technical wrestler but size and strength matched with being a fantastic wrestler would make it very hard for cain to outwrestle him. But relentlessness and much better striking would proobably be the difference between them.

Really?

Brock Lesnars achievements in amateur wrestling suggest otherwise

Cain's Amateur record:
Championships and accomplishments
Collegiate wrestling
Two-time All-American collegiate wrestler

Brock's Amateur record:

Amateur wrestling
Big Ten Conference
Big Ten Conference Championship (1999, 2000)
Ranked the #1 Heavyweight in the Big Ten Conference (2000)
National Collegiate Athletic Association
NCAA Division I runner-up (1999)
NCAA Division I Championship (2000)
North Dakota State University's annual Bison tournament
Heavyweight Championship (1997–1999)[115]
National Junior College Athletic Association
NJCAA All-American (1997, 1998)
Junior College National Championship (1998)

Granted this is all from Wikpedia & theres more detailed amateur career breakdowns out there but this says enough for me!

Karmafaerie

Velasquez the better wrestler?
Are you kidding me!

Lesnar has 30pds on Velasquez, is still as fast and explosive, and is way more dominant on top.

Look at Velasquez vs Kongo.
No technique in his top game in the slightest.
He took him down at ease, but every time he couldn't keep him there.
He displayed no top game.
At all.
When Kongo can scramble up repeatedly, that's just embarrasing.

Lesnar would steamroll Velasquez in a wrestling match.

And seeing as Kongo rocked Carwin everytime he touched his chin, I see no future as champion for Velasquez.

pablohoney87

I said Cain is the better technical wrestler. Not the better wrestler. The best thing to have in wrestling is athletacism. Which is what brock has tons of. One of the reasons GSP has become such a great wrestler is because of his athletacism.

Burkatron

pablohoney87 wrote: »

I said Cain is the better technical wrestler. Not the better wrestler. The best thing to have in wrestling is athletacism. Which is what brock has tons of. One of the reasons GSP has become such a great wrestler is because of his athletacism.

Apologies duder, I reread what you said & picked it up the 2nd time

I think Cain can take Lesnar. Only by points though, and even then he has to survive a lot. He definitely wouldn't be able to finish Lesnar (as seen with Carwin last night) he has an awesome survival mode.

TechnoPool

Deleted User wrote: »

I think Cain can take Lesnar. Only by points though, and even then he has to survive a lot. He definitely wouldn't be able to finish Lesnar (as seen with Carwin last night) he has an awesome survival mode.

he wont finish brock, brock will handle him easy and pretty much anyone in the HW div at the moment, i feel anyways. The guy is only getting better.

Shazbot

TechnoPool wrote: »

he wont finish brock, brock will handle him easy and pretty much anyone in the HW div at the moment, i feel anyways. The guy is only getting better.

I'm not sure about that. We all knew how heavy Carwins hands are before the Lesnar fight and he didn't manage to stop the fight.

However, a massive feather in the cap of Cain is that he stopped Big Nog in spectacular fashion. The first time Nog has ever been stopped. So we know Cain has got power. How that power compares to Carwins is up for debate though.

So, although Lesnar survived Carwins hands, I think Cain has similar power and has displayed brilliant cardio in his previous fights. And that's how Lesnar beat Carwin.

Zero-Cool

Brock will take this, Round 1, TKO gnp.

I really thought Carwin was the great white hope for the HW div to take Lesnar but the way Lesnar survived the flurry of punches??? I can't see Velasquez being much more of a threat. Even if he could win on points, no way anyone could last 25 minutes with Lesnar.

Really sickened, would loved to have seen Carwin take the belt but Lesnar proved he is a real all rounder now and looks to be unstoppable, I even think he could take Fedor no problem.

rovert

Brock is a one dimensional fighter with a questionable chin oh wait that was the last fight.

Karmafaerie

Shazbot wrote: »

I'm not sure about that. We all knew how heavy Carwins hands are before the Lesnar fight and he didn't manage to stop the fight.

However, a massive feather in the cap of Cain is that he stopped Big Nog in spectacular fashion. The first time Nog has ever been stopped. So we know Cain has got power. How that power compares to Carwins is up for debate though.

So, although Lesnar survived Carwins hands, I think Cain has similar power and has displayed brilliant cardio in his previous fights. And that's how Lesnar beat Carwin.

Ahhm, Frank Mir says no.


Cain has power, but not as much as Carwin.
He's a way more technical striker than Carwin, but his wrestling isn't great.
He can take guys down, but he can't hold them down, that doesn't speak volumes for confidence in his hips.

He's got an explosive shot, but no ground game.
I couldn't imagine him doing to Mir what Lesnar did in a million years.
(Not saying he wouldn't win, just that he couldn't win the way that Lesnar did)

Cain will land on Brock before Brock takes him down, however it's very unlikely that he'll hurt him properly.
Once Brock gets him down, Cain'll stay down.
And Brock will land and land heavy.

Shazbot

Karmafaerie wrote: »

Ahhm, Frank Mir says no.

Whoops, I stand corrected.

Karmafaerie

Nog is a legend, but his chin has to be questioned a bit lately.

He took so much damage for so long, eventually your chin just gives out.
As Wandie, and Chuck will atest to, once it's gone, there's not much you can do.

Cain caught Nog flush, and the fact that there was an instantaneous second shot helped, but I wouldn't use that as an indicator of massive power.

He landed one or two good shots on his feet (and a hell of a lot more on the ground) on Kongo, and never fazed him.
So while Cain has lightning fast strikes for a heavyweight, and is technically good, his power wouldn't compare to Carwin.

Also, The Kongo fight showed a lot about Cains chin, and how getting tagged sapped his energy.
He looked gassed aftr three rounds dominating Kongo.

Seeing as Brock weighs some 30 pds more than Cain, and it's mostly uperbody weight, I think that 4 mins of Lesnar lying on him and pounding would slow Cain down a hell of a lot if he got to the second round.


I just can't see Brock not grinding him out.

TechnoPool

Shazbot wrote: »

I'm not sure about that. We all knew how heavy Carwins hands are before the Lesnar fight and he didn't manage to stop the fight.

However, a massive feather in the cap of Cain is that he stopped Big Nog in spectacular fashion. The first time Nog has ever been stopped. So we know Cain has got power. How that power compares to Carwins is up for debate though.

So, although Lesnar survived Carwins hands, I think Cain has similar power and has displayed brilliant cardio in his previous fights. And that's how Lesnar beat Carwin.

yeah but as its been said above, nog has been taking punishment a long time and eventually he's gona lose his iron chin.

Sure didnt chael refer to him as nothing more of a punching bag now a days on his mini stand up a while back:o

Hoeballs

pablohoney87 wrote: »

I said Cain is the better technical wrestler. Not the better wrestler. The best thing to have in wrestling is athletacism. Which is what brock has tons of. One of the reasons GSP has become such a great wrestler is because of his athletacism.

may i ask wat u know about technical wrestlling, have you ever wrestled yourself, i completely disagree that cain is a better technical wrestler, if brock weighed less and was weaker he wud still b a top class wrestler he has got skills,he couldnt hav got this far on strength and athleticism

i dnt know alot about wrestling and have never wrestled either

pablohoney87

Hoeballs wrote: »

may i ask wat u know about technical wrestlling, have you ever wrestled yourself, i completely disagree that cain is a better technical wrestler, if brock weighed less and was weaker he wud still b a top class wrestler he has got skills,he couldnt hav got this far on strength and athleticism

i dnt know alot about wrestling and have never wrestled either

Yes I have trained in wrestling in UCD. I said brock was an awesome wrestler aswell as an absolute beast of an athlete. I am not criticising brock wrestling at all. I believe that cain has a better shot and if he gets a limb is going to take you down. Hes just too relentless with his takedowns. His single leg is flawless. He does need work on the ground i admit.

cowzerp

Cain wont want to take him down but may have the wrestling to stop brock's take-downs, he knows that Brock wants nothing to do with the stand up as his embarrassing fold up and run away effort showed

Everyone who fights him now is just going to make him Shiit Hemorrhage again as they know he has not got the balls to take a punch-it was 1 of the most cowardly things i have ever seen in the UFC that i can remember.

rovert

cowzerp wrote: »

Cain wont want to take him down but may have the wrestling to stop brock's take-downs, he knows that Brock wants nothing to do with the stand up as his embarrassing fold up and run away effort showed

Everyone who fights him now is just going to make him Shiit Hemorrhage again as they know he has not got the balls to take a punch-it was 1 of the most cowardly things i have ever seen in the UFC that i can remember.

Again you are forgetting that Brock was facing the strongest puncher in the UFC in fairness. Also calling Brock cowardly is pretty lol in general.

HERE WE GO AGAIN

cowzerp

cowzerp wrote: »

Everyone who fights him now is just going to make him Shiit Hemorrhage again as they know he has not got the balls to take a punch-it was 1 of the most cowardly things i have ever seen in the UFC that i can remember.

Ehhhh ? ???

OK he has 2 options , Have the balls to take a punch or Win the fight .
:rolleyes:


If you want to watch a show about having the balls to take a punch , watch Jackass.

Fall_Guy

Deleted User wrote: »

Ehhhh ? ???

OK he has 2 options , Have the balls to take a punch or Win the fight .
:rolleyes:


If you want to watch a show about having the balls to take a punch , watch Jackass.

Whether or not having "the balls" to take a punch comes into it or not, it definitely showed that Brock needs huge work on his stand-up, and the fact that his first reaction after taking a hard shot was to turn his back and run as opposed to moving laterally and firing back is worrying (his own coach was even getting on his back for this in the corner between rounds one and two). There was definitely an element of panic when he got tagged. It also needs to be remembered that Carwin is, despite having huge power, very poor technically himself when it comes to boxing.

Brock will need to take quantam leaps forward in his striking before the cain fight, and the fact that Cain has very good wrestling himself may mean that if Brock hasn't improved his striking to the point where he can at least use it to set up his takedowns against velasquez, cain may be able to keep it standing. And if that was to be the case, you would have to think he would be far too fast and technical for Brock on the feet.

Having said that, there is every chance that Brock will still be able to get Cain down regardless. I'm not convinced that Cain will be able to stuff brock's shots just because a 280lb Carwin managed to shrug off a rocked Lesnar's takedown attempt in the first round on saturday. Brock is very explosive and even without decent setups is capable of taking down most fighters. It should be a very interesting fight, and I wouldn't be confident in calling it either way.

Karmafaerie

So.

How many people here talking about Cains great wrestling have ever seen him defend a takedown?

How many here talking about his great scrambling have ever seen him scramble?

We've seen nothing of his takedown defence.
Nothing of his scrambling.

All we've seen is him taking guys down, who're not great at defending takedowns.

Jake O'Brien was probably his hardest test as a wrestler, and that fight lasted all of 2 minutes.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not simply slagging off CAin, it's just that we've never seen him stuff a doubleleg.
Especially not one from a guy who's just as fast as him, and weighs 30pds more!

We've never seen Cain's bottom game, but what we've seen of his top game is beyond amateurish.

It reminds me of Brock in the first Mir fight.
Stand over him and throw as many punches as you can.

As I said before if Kongo can repeatedly stand up, then you've got no top game.

And last but not least, Kongo, while a great technical Striker, doesn't have as much power as Lesnar.

Kongo landed 3 clean punches, and rocked Cain everytime.
If Lesnar lands one, I get the feeling we'll see Cain do his best Heath Herring impression!

Sid_Justice

Hoeballs wrote: »

may i ask wat u know about technical wrestlling, have you ever wrestled yourself, i completely disagree that cain is a better technical wrestler, if brock weighed less and was weaker he wud still b a top class wrestler he has got skills,he couldnt hav got this far on strength and athleticism

i dnt know alot about wrestling and have never wrestled either

seriously. pro-wrestling forum is that -> way:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Karmafaerie

Sid_Justice wrote: »

seriously. pro-wrestling forum is that -> way:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Seriously. You know the difference between wrestling and pro wrestling. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:


As in Brock being a Division one NCAA Champ, and Cain being a Division one NCAA wrestler.
This may be news to you, but wrestling, it's kinda effective in the old MMA.

rovert

Brock said today that he is heading back to the gym and this fight might take place at UFC 119 (September)

Sid_Justice

Karmafaerie wrote: »

Seriously. You know the difference between wrestling and pro wrestling. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:


As in Brock being a Division one NCAA Champ, and Cain being a Division one NCAA wrestler.
This may be news to you, but wrestling, it's kinda effective in the old MMA.

Sorry you took me up wrong, and I can see why. My :rolleyes: were referring to the fact a guy that's never boxed, sparred, wrestled, grappled or anything similar is asking a guy who's fighting on a mma show next month if he knows anything about wrestling. The guys that don't compete in this sport or anything similar should keep their wikipedia based anoraking to the pro-wrestling forum.

For myself, I'm so technical at wrestling I actually own my own wrestling boots, Adidas Extero II baby.

Karmafaerie

Ah, sorry about the uptake.

I see what you mean.

rovert

Lesnar vs. Velasquez is signed for UFC 121 at the Honda Center.

rovert

rovert wrote: »

Lesnar vs. Velasquez is signed for UFC 121 at the Honda Center.

Pity I was hoping for it to be at 119, thats a stacked card.