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When & How could there be a united Ireland?

13567…20

Comments

  • #102
    owenc
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,524 ✭✭✭owenc


    Mike 1972 wrote: »
    Not to mention an increacing number of immigrants most of whom are presumably either happy enough to remain in the UK (otherwise why did they come here ?) or are not particularly bothered either way.

    Yes all the immigrants i know have came here because of that, another reason to keep Ni in the uk as it gives us more money.


  • #103
    Wolfe Tone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭Wolfe Tone


    Bebs wrote: »
    If only it were so simple. The British have a vested interest in peace and stability in the North. It may cost a lot to maintain the North now but it would cost an awful lot more if things turned back to the bad old days. Getting rid of the North isn't as simple as turning to the Republic and saying 'here, you take it'.

    There's really no good reason to re-unite the two parts of the country and I think people know that by now. Selfish nationalism is the sole motivator for modern day 32 county republicanism.
    Obviously it is not that simple. Churchill seemed to think it was though. Selfish nationalism? How ignorant.


    When it is democratically decided that Ireland is to be united it will happen.


  • #104
    Wolfe Tone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭Wolfe Tone


    owenc wrote: »
    Yes all the immigrants i know have came here because of that, another reason to keep Ni in the uk as it gives us more money.
    The North is a drain on the UK economy.


  • #105
    owenc
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,524 ✭✭✭owenc


    MUSSOLINI wrote: »
    Obviously it is not that simple. Churchill seemed to think it was though. Selfish nationalism? How ignorant.


    When it is democratically decided that Ireland is to be united it will happen.

    If i were you i wouldn't say that it may never happen.


  • #106
    Wolfe Tone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭Wolfe Tone


    I think it will, all the trends are pointing that way. Wont happen today or tomorrow of course.


  • #107
    owenc
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,524 ✭✭✭owenc


    MUSSOLINI wrote: »
    The North is a drain on the UK economy.

    Ugh whatever way you put it, "the North" shouldn't be in the uk.


  • #108
    Bebs
    Closed Accounts Posts: 111 ✭✭Bebs


    owenc wrote: »
    If i were you i wouldn't say that it may never happen.

    I would never say never but it's far from the foregone conclusion that Mussolini seems to think it to be.


  • #109
    owenc
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,524 ✭✭✭owenc


    MUSSOLINI wrote: »
    I think it will, all the trends are pointing that way. Wont happen today or tomorrow of course.

    What if the government bring in all the mainland parties and most people start voting for them like in scotland, what happens then.


  • #110
    owenc
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,524 ✭✭✭owenc


    Bebs wrote: »
    I would never say never but it's far from the foregone conclusion that Mussolini seems to think it to be.

    Yes he seems to think its going to happen in the near future.


  • #111
    Wolfe Tone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭Wolfe Tone


    owenc wrote: »
    Ugh whatever way you put it, "the North" shouldn't be in the uk.
    Ok. Thats good.
    owenc wrote: »
    What if the government bring in all the mainland parties and most people start voting for them like in scotland, what happens then.
    Don't quite follow you here....


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  • #112
    Mike 1972
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,018 ✭✭✭Mike 1972


    MUSSOLINI wrote: »
    The North is a drain on the UK economy.

    If this is indeed the case wouldnt it be an even bigger drain on the Irish economy for a very long time following unification
    MUSSOLINI wrote: »
    When it is democratically decided that Ireland is to be united it will happen.

    "When" and "democratically" dont really fit well in the same sentance surely ?


  • #113
    Bottle_of_Smoke
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,770 ✭✭✭Bottle_of_Smoke


    MUSSOLINI wrote: »
    The set up of cross border bodies is a step towards unification I believe.


    Unionist thought so too, RE Council of Ireland, Sunningdale.

    To be honest those bodies are nothing close to a step toward unification. They were basically given so that Sinn Fein could pretend they got something for nationalists in the GFA. Those kind of bodies exist between sovereign states with no intention of unifying all over the world.
    Denerick wrote:
    They did try and march in Dublin and a few troublemakers caused a riot. I sincerely believe that that single incident set back the cause of unification more than any atrocity of the Troubles. The message going north was that Orangemen are not entitled to the same constitutional rights and priviliges inherent to all Irishmen. I don't blame them for not trusting the Republic, or its often narrow minded people.

    That wasn't a normal march. That was set up by a guy called Willie Frazer who acts as a kind of figurehead for IRA victims. He's had a tough life as many members of his family were murdered by republicans but he's not the smartest and in my opinion has a nasty streak to him. I fully believe the dublin riots were exactly what he wanted to happen. The parade was for victims of republicanism and I believe he was implying dublin people were responsible. I guess he didn't realise that the riot happened on the same street as the anti-ira protests in the early 90s.

    Its worth watching his youtube channel to appreciate what kind of guy he is. Check out the bloody sunday ones in particular

    www.youtube.com/fairmedia1


  • #114
    Wolfe Tone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭Wolfe Tone


    owenc wrote: »
    Yes he seems to think its going to happen in the near future.
    I have said multiple times that I feel it will happen in my lifetime, and that 50 years is realistic estimate.


  • #115
    owenc
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,524 ✭✭✭owenc


    Mike 1972 wrote: »
    If this is indeed the case wouldnt it be an even bigger drain on the Irish economy for a very long time following unification

    They couldn't cope with it and they could never give us the money that the uk have given us, and i don't care if yous show me facts and figures the irish government could never give Northern Ireland the money that uk has given us.


  • #116
    owenc
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,524 ✭✭✭owenc


    MUSSOLINI wrote: »
    I have said multiple times that I feel it will happen in my lifetime, and that 50 years is realistic estimate.

    Well its not for happening thats far too close, i'd say at least about 70 years.


  • #117
    Bebs
    Closed Accounts Posts: 111 ✭✭Bebs


    owenc wrote: »
    Yes he seems to think its going to happen in the near future.

    Near or far, it's still outlandish to say that it's definitely going to happen.

    In all likelihood the North will follow the South and the issue will cease to become a defining one and politics will shift to focus primarily on healthcare, education, jobs and politicians expenses and all the other stuff a normal democracy deals with. The national question will just become the preserve of a few die hard nationalists just as it has in the south.


  • #118
    owenc
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,524 ✭✭✭owenc


    MUSSOLINI wrote: »
    Ok. Thats good.


    Don't quite follow you here....

    If they brought in labour and lib dems etc and people starting changing to voting for them ( i mean after all they run the country.) what would happen, there would be no nationalists etc then.


  • #119
    Bottle_of_Smoke
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,770 ✭✭✭Bottle_of_Smoke


    Mike 1972 wrote: »
    NEWSFLASH: There are people in Northern Ireland who are niether Protestant nor Roman Catholic :rolleyes:

    When you say Catholic or Protestant when referring to NI you aren't really talking about religion.

    When we fill out forms for jobs here you have to tick a box saying you're from the protestant or catholic community whether you practice religion or not

    The only ones who don't are immigrants from outside Ireland/Britain


  • #120
    Bebs
    Closed Accounts Posts: 111 ✭✭Bebs


    owenc wrote: »
    They couldn't cope with it and they could never give us the money that the uk have given us, and i don't care if yous show me facts and figures the irish government could never give Northern Ireland the money that uk has given us.

    Absolutely. How could it hope to match the UK's generosity when it wouldn't be able to afford the same largess to its own people?


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  • #121
    owenc
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,524 ✭✭✭owenc


    Bottle_of_Smoke wrote: »
    When you say Catholic or Protestant when referring to NI you aren't really talking about religion.

    When we fill out forms for jobs here you have to tick a box saying you're from the protestant or catholic community whether you practice religion or not

    The only ones who don't are immigrants from outside Ireland/Britain

    Yes but theres a separate one for your religion, and that background thing wouldn't work because a catholic could live in a protestant area and have to tick that off.


  • #122
    owenc
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,524 ✭✭✭owenc


    Bebs wrote: »
    Absolutely. How could it hope to match the UK's generosity when it wouldn't be able to afford the same largess to its own people?

    Wait to you see it'll be like 6 seconds and then someone will go against that saying a load of nonscence showing a whole pile of facts which aren't true.


  • #123
    karma_
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,798 ✭✭✭karma_


    owenc wrote: »
    Wait to you see it'll be like 6 seconds and then someone will go against that saying a load of nonscence showing a whole pile of facts which aren't true.

    Do you understand what a fact is?


  • #124
    Mike 1972
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,018 ✭✭✭Mike 1972


    Bottle_of_Smoke wrote: »
    When you say Catholic or Protestant when referring to NI you aren't really talking about religion.

    I didnt realise there was a local edition of the English dictionary published here :rolleyes:
    Bottle_of_Smoke wrote: »
    When we fill out forms for jobs here you have to tick a box saying you're from the protestant or catholic community whether you practice religion or not The only ones who don't are immigrants from outside Ireland/Britain

    1) There are three options on that form
    2) one doesnt have to fill it out (mine usually goes straight in the bin as Ive a pathological hatred of the things)
    3) The form is sent to everyone. A Middle eastern friend of mine was sent one. Oh and Ive never stated my nationality on a job application form. Im an "EU citizen"
    owenc wrote: »
    a catholic could live in a protestant area.
    Then its not a "Protestant area"
    gurramok wrote: »
    Name one political party in the Dail that do not want an United Ireland. .
    I could name one which dont have a policy either way. Theyre actually in Government right now.


  • #125
    Bottle_of_Smoke
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,770 ✭✭✭Bottle_of_Smoke


    owenc wrote: »
    Wait to you see it'll be like 6 seconds and then someone will go against that saying a load of nonscence showing a whole pile of facts which aren't true.

    Where you live doesn't matter, its who your parents are etc.

    It says something like

    please tick the box

    I am a member of the Protestant Community

    I am a member of the Roman Catholic Community

    I am neither a member of the Protestant or Roman Catholic Community*

    *Whether we practice religion or not, here in Northern Ireland we are generally seen as being Catholic or Protestant. If you choose neither option we will assign you based on available information

    I assume the last bit means your name/school you went to.


  • #126
    owenc
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,524 ✭✭✭owenc


    Bottle_of_Smoke wrote: »
    Where you live doesn't matter, its who your parents are etc.

    It says something like

    please tick the box

    I am a member of the Protestant Community

    I am a member of the Roman Catholic Community

    I am neither a member of the Protestant or Roman Catholic Community*

    *Whether we practice religion or not, here in Northern Ireland we are generally seen as being Catholic or Protestant. If you choose neither option we will assign you based on available information

    I assume the last bit means your name/school you went to.


    Well i won't be ticking any of them boxes. When someone asks me i say i don't goto church and they say what religion are you and i say i don't church and they just look at me, people are so thick here.


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  • #127
    owenc
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,524 ✭✭✭owenc


    Mike 1972 wrote: »
    I didnt realise there was a local edition of the English dictionary published here :rolleyes:



    1) There are three options on that form
    2) one doesnt have to fill it out (mine usually goes straight in the bin as Ive a pathological hatred of the things)
    3) The form is sent to everyone. A Middle eastern friend of mine was sent one. Oh and Ive never stated my nationality on a job application form. Im an "EU citizen"


    Then its not a "Protestant area"

    Yes it is, so you are saying that the shankhill road isn't a protestant area?


  • #128
    Mike 1972
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,018 ✭✭✭Mike 1972


    If you choose neither option we will assign you based on available information

    How does that work then ?

    Name: Seamus Williamson
    Address: Malone Road, Belfast
    Hobbies: Cricket, Hurling
    owenc wrote: »
    Yes it is, so you are saying that the shankhill road isn't a protestant area?
    Yes I am
    Its a predominantely protestant area.


  • #129
    RATM
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,591 ✭✭✭RATM


    Mike 1972 wrote: »
    NEWSFLASH: There are people in Northern Ireland who are niether Protestant nor Roman Catholic :rolleyes:

    There's no need to be pedantic. Of course there's more than two religions in NI, thats why I prefaced the sentence with 'lets assume'. Did you want me to name over 50 different religions with stats like Janism: 0.023% or something ?:rolleyes:


  • #130
    owenc
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,524 ✭✭✭owenc


    Mike 1972 wrote: »
    How does that work then ?

    Name: Seamus Williamson
    Address: Malone Road
    Hobbies: Cricket, Hurling


    Yes I am
    Its a predominantely protestant area.


    What if you live in a mixed area and you don't play any sports and have an irish and scottish name?


  • #131
    Mike 1972
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,018 ✭✭✭Mike 1972


    owenc wrote: »
    What if you live in a mixed area and you don't play any sports and have an irish and scottish name?

    ...and went to an integrated school

    Which was pretty much the point I was making


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  • #132
    jordan..
    Closed Accounts Posts: 262 ✭✭jordan..


    It would be a hugely historical event to have our country united again, to live to experience it would be amazing. But I wont hold my breath.

    The cons unfortunately out weigh the pros. Apart from getting back what is rightfully ours we have nothing much else to gain. We have come along way with the northern situation. Priority should be to keep building positive relations. Im sure at somestage a united Ireland will come on the cards as it is clear the British regret their colonial exploits in the North of Ireland.


  • #133
    Mike 1972
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,018 ✭✭✭Mike 1972


    RATM wrote: »
    There's no need to be pedantic. Of course there's more than two religions in NI, thats why I prefaced the sentence with 'lets assume'. Did you want me to name over 50 different religions with stats like Janism: 0.023% or something ?:rolleyes:

    Do you live in the Republic ?

    If so are you Fianna Fail or Fine Gael ?

    That 0.023 % could be quite significant someday if the numbers of Protestants and Catholics are virtually equal

    Whats the point of "assuming" something that cant and wont ever happen ?
    MUSSOLINI wrote: »
    No, everyone who votes for a nationalist party wants a UI. It is a stated aim of SDLP too.
    So nobody in Northern Ireland ever votes on any issue other than whether they want NI to be part of the Republic of Ireland or the United Kingdom ?

    Even in European Elections ?


  • #134
    owenc
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,524 ✭✭✭owenc


    jordan.. wrote: »
    It would be a hugely historical event to have our country united again, to live to experience it would be amazing. But I wont hold my breath.

    The cons unfortunately out weigh the pros. Apart from getting back what is rightfully ours we have nothing much else to gain. We have come along way with the northern situation. Priority should be to keep building positive relations. Im sure at somestage a united Ireland will come on the cards as it is clear the British regret their colonial exploits in the North of Ireland.

    Actually it belongs to the british as the majority of its citizens are british desendants, plus we are way closer to the mainland than anywere down south, i mean i goto glasgow when i want to goto america not dublin, dublin is 130 miles away glasgow only 90.


  • #135
    karma_
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,798 ✭✭✭karma_


    owenc wrote: »
    Actually it belongs to the british as the majority of its citizens are british desendants, plus we are way closer to the mainland than anywere down south, i mean i goto glasgow when i want to goto america not dublin, dublin is 130 miles away glasgow only 90.

    Are you suggesting it's easier to go to Glasgow than to Dublin? As someone who has made both trips it most definitely is not.


  • #136
    Bottle_of_Smoke
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,770 ✭✭✭Bottle_of_Smoke


    I didnt realise there was a local edition of the English dictionary published here

    You can roll-eyes all you want, but that statement shows you don't really know what you're talking about. In the six counties when you say someone's Catholic you mean they're of native descent. When you say they're Protestant you mean they're of Scottish Planter Descent. Its silly but this is Northern Ireland. I'm somewhat suspicious you know this and are just being pedantic to be honest.

    Mike 1972 wrote: »
    How does that work then ?

    Name: Seamus Williamson
    Address: Malone Road, Belfast
    Hobbies: Cricket, Hurling


    Yes I am
    Its a predominantely protestant area.

    I agree its ridiculous. My mate is an atheist from a "mixed marriage" family where kids were raised Catholic. Though his dad's a Protestant and has a very Ulster Scots sounding surname. I wonder what he's expected to put down.

    If you ask me they should do away with the form.


  • #137
    owenc
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,524 ✭✭✭owenc


    karma_ wrote: »
    Are you suggesting it's easier to go to Glasgow than to Dublin? As someone who has made both trips it most definitely is not.

    yes it is, its only a 10 minute flight it is 30 minutes to dublin.


  • #138
    Mike 1972
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,018 ✭✭✭Mike 1972


    owenc wrote: »
    plus we are way closer to the mainland than anywere down south,.

    That may be the case in Larne or Carrickfergus but hardly in Newry, Enniskillen or (London)Derry


  • #139
    Wolfe Tone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭Wolfe Tone


    That majority is ever dwindling......


  • #140
    jordan..
    Closed Accounts Posts: 262 ✭✭jordan..


    owenc wrote: »
    Actually it belongs to the british as the majority of its citizens are british desendants, plus we are way closer to the mainland than anywere down south, i mean i goto glasgow when i want to goto america not dublin, dublin is 130 miles away glasgow only 90.

    At the moment that is the case, but you know yourself! It is Irish land occupied by foreign settlers!


  • #141
    Mike 1972
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,018 ✭✭✭Mike 1972


    Bottle_of_Smoke wrote: »
    In the six counties .
    Wheres that ?

    Bottle_of_Smoke wrote: »
    when you say someone's Catholic you mean they're of native descent. When you say they're Protestant you mean they're of Scottish Planter Descent. .

    Even if theyre Southern Protestants or Mainland Catholics ?

    And not all Protestants in NI are of Scottish Planter Descent. Many are of Anglo-Irish decent (or some mixture thereof)

    Not to mention many Catholics (and others)


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  • #142
    karma_
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,798 ✭✭✭karma_


    owenc wrote: »
    yes it is, its only a 10 minute flight it is 30 minutes to dublin.

    Your talking rubbish, complete unadulterated rubbish. I am beginning to believe you may be the greatest troll on these boards since Bubbles.


  • #143
    Wolfe Tone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭Wolfe Tone


    Don't act stupid. You are better than that. You know perfectly well what he means by the six counties.


  • #144
    Mike 1972
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,018 ✭✭✭Mike 1972


    jordan.. wrote: »
    It is Irish land occupied by foreign settlers!

    Dude its not "occupied" by anyone

    The plantation didnt take place during the 20th Century you know :rolleyes:


  • #145
    owenc
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,524 ✭✭✭owenc


    karma_ wrote: »
    Your talking rubbish, complete unadulterated rubbish. I am beginning to believe you may be the greatest troll on these boards since Bubbles.

    Don't believe me look at this then: http://www.travelmath.com/flight-time/from/Coleraine,+United+Kingdom/to/PIK


  • #146
    Mike 1972
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,018 ✭✭✭Mike 1972


    MUSSOLINI wrote: »
    You know perfectly well what he means by the six counties.

    "Six counties" could refer to any random but contigous group of six counties on the Island of Ireland or elsewhere.

    Why cant he say "Northern Ireland" it isint hard ?


  • #147
    karma_
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,798 ✭✭✭karma_


    owenc wrote: »
    Don't believe me look at this then: http://www.travelmath.com/flight-time/from/Coleraine,+United+Kingdom/to/PIK

    There is no airport in Coleraine, what exactly does that prove?


  • #148
    owenc
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,524 ✭✭✭owenc


    Mike 1972 wrote: »
    "Six counties" could refer to any random but contigous group of six counties on the Island of Ireland or elsewhere.

    Why cant he say "Northern Ireland" it isint hard ?

    Yea i'm sick and tired of them saying six counties and the north, its ignorant to say that.


  • #149
    owenc
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,524 ✭✭✭owenc


    Mike 1972 wrote: »
    That may be the case in Larne or Carrickfergus but hardly in Newry, Enniskillen or (London)Derry

    from coleraine to the mull of kintyre its only 30 miles, from coleraine to donegal is far further. I can currently see scotland from my house when i look out the window.


  • #150
    Wolfe Tone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭Wolfe Tone


    Myself, or anyone else can call the six counties whatever they want, Ulster, the North, whatever. Each is valid.


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  • #151
    owenc
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,524 ✭✭✭owenc


    Mike 1972 wrote: »
    Wheres that ?




    Even if theyre Southern Protestants or Mainland Catholics ?

    And not all Protestants in NI are of Scottish Planter Descent. Many are of Anglo-Irish decent (or some mixture thereof)

    Not to mention many Catholics (and others)

    Actually quite alot of catholics have scottish surnames, i read somewhere that ulster used to be 90% protestant and then people converted, thats why so many catholics have scottish surnames, my mothers family are catholic and have a scottish surname.


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