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When & How could there be a united Ireland?

1…34689…20

Comments

  • #252
    owenc
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,524 ✭✭✭owenc


    MUSSOLINI wrote: »
    You see what I meant?

    I was talking in reference to what the Boys paragraph had in it at the end, stop talking to me like a peace of crap, and going on like i know nothing about history.:mad:


  • #253
    owenc
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,524 ✭✭✭owenc


    MUSSOLINI wrote: »
    The souths constitution will have to be changed, so a vote on whether to accept the 6 counties will be needed, and a all Ireland vote (hopefully) on a new constitution.

    Thats not fair as then the unionists will never get a chance. In that sence they better bring in another Ulster Covenant and i WILL be signing it.:mad: If you do that there will be riots and i will be happy about it, (i usually don't side with them but since that would be unfair...).


  • #254
    owenc
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,524 ✭✭✭owenc


    MUSSOLINI wrote: »
    They are my heroes. And to look at it that way is a very blinkered view.

    Whatever expect my view on things and get on with it.


  • #255
    Wolfe Tone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭Wolfe Tone


    owenc wrote: »
    I was talking in reference to what the Boys paragraph had in it at the end, stop talking to me like a peace of crap, and going on like i know nothing about history.:mad:
    Ok Owen, but speaking from past experience you seem to hanker back to what your teacher has said and use that to refute peoples posts, or use "my teacher said this" as a source, and refuse to accept correction.


  • #256
    Wolfe Tone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭Wolfe Tone


    owenc wrote: »
    Thats not fair as then the unionists will never get a chance. In that sence they better bring in another Ulster Covenant and i WILL be signing it.:mad: If you do that there will be riots and i will be happy about it, (i usually don't side with them but since that would be unfair...).
    No, you don't seem to follow. The north will vote amongst themselves, then the south will vote to accept the north, then we will have an all Ireland vote on a new constitution.


  • #257
    owenc
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,524 ✭✭✭owenc


    MUSSOLINI wrote: »
    No, you don't seem to follow. The north will vote amongst themselves, then the south will vote to accept the north, then we will have an all Ireland vote on a new constitution.

    Oh thank god i thought you said yous had a choice, i nearly died with anger!:mad:


  • #258
    Wolfe Tone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭Wolfe Tone


    owenc wrote: »
    Oh thank god i thought you said yous had a choice, i nearly died with anger!:mad:
    See, its not nice having decisions made by different states is it.....


  • #259
    owenc
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,524 ✭✭✭owenc


    MUSSOLINI wrote: »
    See, its not nice having decisions made by different states is it.....

    Why what are you talking about?


  • #260
    Wolfe Tone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭Wolfe Tone


    owenc wrote: »
    Why what are you talking about?
    You seem angry at the thought that the south could decide your future.... similar to the way many were angry that Britain could, and can, decide theirs.


  • #261
    owenc
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,524 ✭✭✭owenc


    MUSSOLINI wrote: »
    You seem angry at the thought that the south could decide your future.... similar to the way many were angry that Britain could, and can, decide theirs.

    Well thats not my fault it was done by a majority and those people are living in the uk anyway.


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  • #262
    Wolfe Tone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭Wolfe Tone


    owenc wrote: »
    Well thats not my fault it was done by a majority and those people are living in the uk anyway.
    Indeed, in the UK, seen by many as a foreign country.... should that foreign country decide the fate of another?

    Owen, as a British citizen will you obey what Westminster says, or will you follow the route of many Unionists and only follow when it suits, and when it doesn't "viciously defy" Britain's orders?


  • #263
    owenc
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,524 ✭✭✭owenc


    MUSSOLINI wrote: »
    Indeed, in the UK, seen by many as a foreign country.... should that foreign country decide the fate of another?

    Owen, as a British citizen will you obey what Westminster says, or will you follow the route of many Unionists and only follow when it suits, and when it doesn't "viciously defy" Britain's orders?

    I will follow the ulster unionist party and conservatives...


  • #264
    Wolfe Tone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭Wolfe Tone


    owenc wrote: »
    I will follow the ulster unionist party and conservatives...
    Hypothetically speaking, if the entire UK were to vote about the North and it was decided to give the six counties back, would you follow the will of the majority?


  • #265
    Bebs
    Closed Accounts Posts: 111 ✭✭Bebs


    MUSSOLINI wrote: »
    Indeed, in the UK, seen by many as a foreign country.... should that foreign country decide the fate of another?

    Owen, as a British citizen will you obey what Westminster says, or will you follow the route of many Unionists and only follow when it suits, and when it doesn't "viciously defy" Britain's orders?

    The Republic is just as foreign a country when it comes to Northern Ireland.


  • #266
    Wolfe Tone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭Wolfe Tone


    Bebs wrote: »
    The Republic is just as foreign a country when it comes to Northern Ireland.
    The South wont decide the fate of the north, I was merely stating that we shall have a need to vote on it, for constitutional reasons.


  • #267
    Bebs
    Closed Accounts Posts: 111 ✭✭Bebs


    Well that is the Republic having a say in the future of Northern Ireland just as it would be Northern Ireland having a say in the future of the Republic.


  • #268
    Wolfe Tone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭Wolfe Tone


    Bebs wrote: »
    Well that is the Republic having a say in the future of Northern Ireland just as it would be Northern Ireland having a say in the future of the Republic.
    Wait, I dont think you follow me here, if the North were to vote to unite with the 26, the south would need to vote to accept that.


  • #269
    Eliot Rosewater
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,745 ✭✭✭Eliot Rosewater


    MUSSOLINI wrote: »
    No, you don't seem to follow. The north will vote amongst themselves, then the south will vote to accept the north, then we will have an all Ireland vote on a new constitution.

    What makes you think we will have a new constitution?


  • #270
    Wolfe Tone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭Wolfe Tone


    Eliot Rosewater wrote: »
    What makes you think we will have a new constitution?
    At the very least there will need to be an amendment. It is the aim of most republican parties for a new constitution, as I have outlined earlier, one based on the foundations of the 1916 proclamation. I think the country needs a new constitution. Do you?


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  • #271
    owenc
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,524 ✭✭✭owenc


    Bebs wrote: »
    The Republic is just as foreign a country when it comes to Northern Ireland.

    It is a foreign country.


  • #272
    Eliot Rosewater
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,745 ✭✭✭Eliot Rosewater


    MUSSOLINI wrote: »
    At the very least there will need to be an amendment. It is the aim of most republican parties for a new constitution, as I have outlined earlier, one based on the foundations of the 1916 proclamation. I think the country needs a new constitution. Do you?

    I think that the country could do with a better constitution that put limits on the powers of government, and introduces checks and balances. What exactly do Republican parties interpret the aims of the 1916 rising to be? Or, what will be put in the constitution to make it different to the current one?


    I personally think we'll just have an amendment. Far easier to pass.


  • #273
    owenc
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,524 ✭✭✭owenc


    MUSSOLINI wrote: »
    Hypothetically speaking, if the entire UK were to vote about the North and it was decided to give the six counties back, would you follow the will of the majority?

    Its our choice, no other region or country, just OUR choice.


  • #274
    Wolfe Tone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭Wolfe Tone


    Eliot Rosewater wrote: »
    I think that the country could do with a better constitution that put limits on the powers of government, and introduces checks and balances. What exactly do Republican parties interpret the aims of the 1916 rising to be? Or, what will be put in the constitution to make it different to the current one?


    I personally think we'll just have an amendment. Far easier to pass.
    Well personally I would like to see a federal republic. Lumping in some extra TDs wont work.


  • #275
    Wolfe Tone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭Wolfe Tone


    owenc wrote: »
    Its our choice, no other region or country, just OUR choice.
    Ok, then why should Britain decide on anything that happens in the North? Such as its taxes? And budget?


  • #276
    owenc
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,524 ✭✭✭owenc


    MUSSOLINI wrote: »
    Ok, then why should Britain decide on anything that happens in the North? Such as its taxes? And budget?

    Because that is our country.:rolleyes: But When it comes to when a region stays in the country its the regions choice.


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  • #277
    Japer
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 792 ✭✭✭Japer


    MUSSOLINI wrote: »
    They are my heroes.

    The men behind the easter 1916 rising were and are not everyones heroes. At the time they were considered terrorists by many, and still are. Do not forget they were jeered and spat at by the plain people of Dublin when they surrendered. Hundreds of thousands of Irish people had relatives in the forces in WW1. Not that many people took part in the Easter rising. Of course, it was drummed in to most Irish people here in the south the men of 1916 were heroes. People are entitled to another point of view.


  • #278
    oscarBravo
    Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 28,822 Mod ✭✭✭✭oscarBravo


    owenc wrote: »
    Because that is our country.:rolleyes: But When it comes to when a region stays in the country its the regions choice.
    To be fair, if there's a question of whether or not a region joins my country, I'd like to be asked for my opinion.


  • #279
    Wolfe Tone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭Wolfe Tone


    owenc wrote: »
    Because that is our country.:rolleyes: But When it comes to when a region stays in the country its the regions choice.
    Ok, then, so why cant nationalist regions in the North leave then?

    So if Britain votes on something that will, in your eyes, adversely affect the north it shouldn't go ahead?


  • #280
    owenc
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,524 ✭✭✭owenc


    oscarBravo wrote: »
    To be fair, if there's a question of whether or not a region joins my country, I'd like to be asked for my opinion.

    This is staying in a country, its northern irelands choice and thats final, leave me alone and stop friggen challenging me everytime i say something which isn't nationalist (and i'm talking to all of you).


  • #281
    Wolfe Tone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭Wolfe Tone


    Japer wrote: »
    The men behind the easter 1916 rising were and are not everyones heroes. At the time they were considered terrorists by many, and still are. Do not forget they were jeered and spat at by the plain people of Dublin when they surrendered. Hundreds of thousands of Irish people had relatives in the forces in WW1. Not that many people took part in the Easter rising. Of course, it was drummed in to most Irish people here in the south the men of 1916 were heroes. People are entitled to another point of view.
    I never said that someone else was not entitled to their own point of view. I stated that they are my heroes. It was never drummed into me.


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  • #282
    owenc
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,524 ✭✭✭owenc


    MUSSOLINI wrote: »
    Ok, then, so why cant nationalist regions in the North leave then?

    So if Britain votes on something that will, in your eyes, adversely affect the north it shouldn't go ahead?

    OMG this is talking about staying in the country not money or anything like that.:rolleyes:


  • #283
    Wolfe Tone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭Wolfe Tone


    owenc wrote: »
    This is staying in a country, its northern irelands choice and thats final, leave me alone and stop friggen challenging me everytime i say something which isn't nationalist (and i'm talking to all of you).
    If anything people from speaking from a nationalist point of view get challenged.This very thread is questioning nationalist/republicans(at least some of them)


  • #284
    owenc
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,524 ✭✭✭owenc


    MUSSOLINI wrote: »
    I never said that someone else was not entitled to their own point of view. I stated that they are my heroes. It was never drummed into me.

    Yes but you are constantly arguing against peoples views instead of excepting it and thats what you are doing now to me.:mad:


  • #285
    Wolfe Tone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭Wolfe Tone


    owenc wrote: »
    OMG this is talking about staying in the country not money or anything like that.:rolleyes:
    So if the majority of British citizens were to decide that the north was an unwanted drain, their views should be ignored?

    Hypothetically speaking of course.


  • #286
    owenc
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,524 ✭✭✭owenc


    MUSSOLINI wrote: »
    So if the majority of British citizens were to decide that the north was an unwanted drain, their views should be ignored?

    Hypothetically speaking of course.

    Its our choice not theirs now stop it and drop this now.


  • #287
    Wolfe Tone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭Wolfe Tone


    owenc wrote: »
    Its our choice not theirs now stop it and drop this now.
    But Owen, seen as you are an equal British citizen, should other British citizens not have a say? Say for instance, people in Wales?


  • #288
    owenc
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,524 ✭✭✭owenc


    MUSSOLINI wrote: »
    But Owen, seen as you are an equal British citizen, should other British citizens not have a say? Say for instance, people in Wales?

    I told you i'm not answering i gave you an answer and except it and stop challenging it, its doing my head in.


  • #289
    Bebs
    Closed Accounts Posts: 111 ✭✭Bebs


    I think that the orchestrator of the 1916 rising are completely mythologised by the republican movement. You have to respect their willingness to die for their ideals but at the same time they're no founding fathers. A lot of their social and economic ideas don't really stand the light of day.


  • #290
    Wolfe Tone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭Wolfe Tone


    I told you i'm not answering i gave you an answer and except it and stop challenging it, its doing my head in.

    You are trying to have your cake and eat it too. You now see why people resent having a country across the waves decide what happens. Typical Unionist cherry picking.


  • #291
    Bebs
    Closed Accounts Posts: 111 ✭✭Bebs


    Mussolini what you're asking is essentially the West Lothian question.

    The Northern Irish are just as entitled to resent the Republic meddling in their affairs. The Republic has no claim on Northern Ireland.


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  • #292
    Wolfe Tone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭Wolfe Tone


    Bebs wrote: »
    Mussolini what you're asking is essentially the West Lothian question.

    The Northern Irish are just as entitled to resent the Republic meddling in their affairs. The Republic has no claim on Northern Ireland.
    Yes I know.(RE: WL) The UK does have a claim on the north, and unionists acknowledge and for the most part embrace it. Why so if they will only be willing to accept Britain's wishes when it suits them?


  • #293
    Bebs
    Closed Accounts Posts: 111 ✭✭Bebs


    Because they can and because sometimes it suits them. That's basic politics really, nothing unusual in that.


  • #294
    Wolfe Tone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭Wolfe Tone


    I call it hypocrisy.


  • #295
    Bebs
    Closed Accounts Posts: 111 ✭✭Bebs


    MUSSOLINI wrote: »
    I call it hypocrisy.

    It's not peculiar to Unionists. People of every ideology do it and that includes Republicans. It's just smart politics.


  • #296
    Wolfe Tone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭Wolfe Tone


    Bebs wrote: »
    It's not peculiar to Unionists. People of every ideology do it and that includes Republicans. It's just smart politics.
    It is hypocritical. They roll out the "majority" reasoning time and time again. Yet it only applies when it suits them.

    What happened to majorities with fermanagh?


  • #297
    Bebs
    Closed Accounts Posts: 111 ✭✭Bebs


    MUSSOLINI wrote: »
    It is hypocritical. They roll out the "majority" reasoning time and time again. Yet it only applies when it suits them.

    What happened to majorities with fermanagh?

    I'm not saying it isn't hypocrisy but I am saying that there's nothing wrong with it. They're trying to get the best deal for their community and who could fault them for trying?


  • #298
    Eliot Rosewater
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,745 ✭✭✭Eliot Rosewater


    MUSSOLINI wrote: »
    Well personally I would like to see a federal republic. Lumping in some extra TDs wont work.

    But is that what the 1916 risers wanted? You said here that Republicans want their wish fulfilled; I'm just interested in what that wish it.


  • #299
    owenc
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,524 ✭✭✭owenc


    Bebs wrote: »
    Mussolini what you're asking is essentially the West Lothian question.

    The Northern Irish are just as entitled to resent the Republic meddling in their affairs. The Republic has no claim on Northern Ireland.

    You explain it all well, i think i'll ask you to explain to mussolini the next time when i find it hard to get my words out!;)


  • #300
    owenc
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,524 ✭✭✭owenc


    MUSSOLINI wrote: »
    I call it hypocrisy.

    Its called changing your views Mussonlini you don't have to keep your views accordingly.


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  • #301
    Wolfe Tone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭Wolfe Tone


    But is that what the 1916 risers wanted? You said here that Republicans want their wish fulfilled; I'm just interested in what that wish it.


    I have been through this a few pages back. I cant speak for every republican of course.

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=66747090&postcount=214


    I think the "Éire Nua" formula is a good one. Something along these lines.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%89ire_Nua
    I dont think Unionists would believe it to be fair for extra TDs etc... nor would they accept it.


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