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When & How could there be a united Ireland?

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Comments

  • #302
    Wolfe Tone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭Wolfe Tone


    owenc wrote: »
    You explain it all well, i think i'll ask you to explain to mussolini the next time when i find it hard to get my words out!;)
    So do you resent Britain meddling in your affairs then?


  • #303
    owenc
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,524 ✭✭✭owenc


    MUSSOLINI wrote: »
    So do you resent Britain meddling in your affairs then?

    What? Don't refer to it as britain as if its a different country its my own country, thats very offensive.


  • #304
    Wolfe Tone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭Wolfe Tone


    owenc wrote: »
    What? Don't refer to it as britain as if its a different country its my own country, thats very offensive.
    You know exactly what I mean. The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland is the title I believe. Stop trying to dodge the question.


    Do you resent the people from Whales, Scotland and England having a very large say over what happens in the north despite not living there. You maintain that the north is a part of the UK, should other UK citizens not have an equal say in what happens there seen as, in your words, is all the one country?

    Or is their meddling unwelcome?


  • #305
    owenc
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,524 ✭✭✭owenc


    MUSSOLINI wrote: »
    You know exactly what I mean. The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland is the title I believe. Stop trying to dodge the question.


    Do you resent the people from Whales, Scotland and England having a very large say over what happens in the north despite not living there. You maintain that the north is a part of the UK, should other UK citizens not have an equal say in what happens there seen as, in your words, is all the one country?

    Or is their meddling unwelcome?

    Would you stop bringing that stupid statement up its The United Kingdom, no one ever refers it to that. Yes i do as long as its nothing to do with a united ireland as that is our choice.


  • #306
    Wolfe Tone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭Wolfe Tone


    owenc wrote: »
    Would you stop bringing that stupid statement up its The United Kingdom, no one ever refers it to that. Yes i do as long as its nothing to do with a united ireland as that is our choice.
    Ah, so the official title of your "country" is stupid.

    So according to that your fellow citizens should not have a say in what happens to a part of their state? Perhaps because the north will be a minority?


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  • #307
    owenc
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,524 ✭✭✭owenc


    MUSSOLINI wrote: »
    Ah, so the official title of your "country" is stupid.

    So according to that your fellow citizens should not have a say in what happens to a part of their state? Perhaps because the north will be a minority?

    I'm sorry but i can't be bothered to answer.


  • #308
    Wolfe Tone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭Wolfe Tone


    owenc wrote: »
    I'm sorry but i can't be bothered to answer.
    Thats your option. These questions have to be asked.


  • #309
    PopeUrbanII
    Closed Accounts Posts: 108 ✭✭PopeUrbanII


    RATM wrote: »
    I remember reading a few years back that in NI Catholics tend to have larger families than Protestants and that eventually would be the largest population by religion.

    Now leaving aside whether or not London or Dublin would ever want Ireland to be united again my question is how would such a unification be put in motion?
    By referendum ? If so would it need a simple majority or a 2/3 one ?

    So to play devils advocate here- lets assume the population at the time of referendum was 51% Catholic, 49% Protestant. It would be fair to say that most, if not all, Protestants would vote to stay in the UK. But do people feel that all Catholics in the north would vote to join the south? Is there an argument that the UK has better roads/education/health than the south and therefore many Catholics would actually vote to stay as part of the UK ?

    As an American, I'm out of touch with popular Irish and Scots-Irish sentiment. That said, I'd hate to see free, Catholic Ireland fall under any sort of British influence. No way.


  • #310
    Wolfe Tone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭Wolfe Tone


    PopeUrbanII wrote: »
    As an American, I'm out of touch with popular Irish and Scots-Irish sentiment. That said, I'd hate to see free, Catholic Ireland fall under any sort of British influence. No way.
    Catholic Ireland is dead and gone friend.


  • #311
    Bebs
    Closed Accounts Posts: 111 ✭✭Bebs


    PopeUrbanII wrote: »
    As an American, I'm out of touch with popular Irish and Scots-Irish sentiment. That said, I'd hate to see free, Catholic Ireland fall under any sort of British influence. No way.

    What are you talking about? That country only exists in American imaginations.


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  • #312
    Wolfe Tone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭Wolfe Tone


    And seriously, I think that the RCC was a huge stumbling block in a UI, which is now gone.


  • #313
    Bebs
    Closed Accounts Posts: 111 ✭✭Bebs


    MUSSOLINI wrote: »
    And seriously, I think that the RCC was a huge stumbling block in a UI, which is now gone.

    We can only hope.


  • #314
    Wolfe Tone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭Wolfe Tone


    owenc wrote: »
    They are still obsessed with the catholic church but.
    Who are they?
    What a sweeping ignorant statement.


  • #315
    jordan..
    Closed Accounts Posts: 262 ✭✭jordan..


    owenc wrote: »
    Well i predict that a good lot will leave and as a matter of fact i know a few people who have said that they would leave is this was to happen.

    good riddance!!!


  • #316
    Wolfe Tone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭Wolfe Tone


    jordan.. wrote: »
    good riddance!!!
    I would disagree with that, what we need is to build an inclusive Ireland for everyone on this island.


  • #317
    Mike 1972
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,018 ✭✭✭Mike 1972


    Bebs wrote: »
    I think that the orchestrator of the 1916 rising are completely mythologised by the republican movement. You have to respect their willingness to die for their ideals .

    Actually I dont have to do anything of the sort.

    But if you do buy into this cult of martyrdom and the sacred cows which accompany it then you also has to respect the willingness of the likes of Mohamed Atta to kill die for his beliefs and overlook how twisted and f***ed up these beliefs actually were.


  • #318
    Wolfe Tone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭Wolfe Tone


    Thats just ridiculous. The Easter rising and September 11th are not comparable.


  • #319
    owenc
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,524 ✭✭✭owenc


    jordan.. wrote: »
    good riddance!!!

    I'd be happy to leave! I can't stick this place as it is, its crap, theres nothing to do.


  • #320
    Mike 1972
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,018 ✭✭✭Mike 1972


    MUSSOLINI wrote: »
    Thats just ridiculous. The Easter rising and September 11th are not comparable.

    Yes one happened in Spring the other in Autumn

    Totally different like


  • #321
    owenc
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,524 ✭✭✭owenc


    MUSSOLINI wrote: »
    Thats just ridiculous. The Easter rising and September 11th are not comparable.

    Yes but you don't respect them they killed innocent people and were very evil, you should know that by even looking at them especially that leader one he scared the living daylights out of me especially his voice, and what he said about the police force was not nice.:mad:


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  • #322
    Wolfe Tone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭Wolfe Tone


    Mike 1972 wrote: »
    Yes one happened in Spring the other in Autumn

    Totally different like
    Because they were completely different events, with completely different motivations.


  • #323
    Wolfe Tone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭Wolfe Tone


    owenc wrote: »
    Yes but you don't respect them they killed innocent people and were very evil, you should know that by even looking at them especially that leader one he scared the living daylights out of me especially his voice, and what he said about the police force was not nice.:mad:
    What?


  • #324
    owenc
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,524 ✭✭✭owenc


    MUSSOLINI wrote: »
    What?

    Oh you didn't watch the video and you are a very strict nationalist!:eek: Told you we learn't about irish history in school here.


  • #325
    Bebs
    Closed Accounts Posts: 111 ✭✭Bebs


    Mike 1972 wrote: »
    Actually I dont have to do anything of the sort.

    But if you do buy into this cult of martyrdom and the sacred cows which accompany it then you also has to respect the willingness of the likes of Mohamed Atta to kill die for his beliefs and overlook how twisted and f***ed up these beliefs actually were.

    I don't see how you can equate an attempt to wrest military control of Dublin from the British army with ramming an airplane full of non-combatants into a building full of non-combatants.


  • #326
    Wolfe Tone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭Wolfe Tone


    owenc wrote: »
    Oh you didn't watch the video and you are a very strict nationalist!:eek: Told you we learn't about irish history in school here.
    Which one are you talking about?


  • #327
    owenc
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,524 ✭✭✭owenc


    Bebs wrote: »
    I don't see how you can equate an attempt to wrest military control of Dublin from the British army with ramming an airplane full of non-combatants into a building full of non-combatants.

    It dosen't matter what you compare them to, they were bad and evil for what they have done.


  • #328
    owenc
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,524 ✭✭✭owenc


    MUSSOLINI wrote: »
    Which one are you talking about?

    I think its the micheal collins one.


  • #329
    Bebs
    Closed Accounts Posts: 111 ✭✭Bebs


    owenc wrote: »
    It dosen't matter what you compare them to, they were bad and evil for what they have done.

    Who were, the 1916 crew or the 911 lads?


  • #330
    Wolfe Tone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭Wolfe Tone


    owenc wrote: »
    I think its the micheal collins one.
    He was not a leader in 1916. He was an aide de camp I believe.


    Wait so you feel that Collins was an evil man?


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  • #331
    owenc
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,524 ✭✭✭owenc


    Bebs wrote: »
    Who were, the 1916 crew or the 911 lads?

    Both of them obviously.


  • #332
    karma_
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,798 ✭✭✭karma_


    owenc wrote: »
    Both of them obviously.

    Bubbles, it is you!


  • #333
    owenc
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,524 ✭✭✭owenc


    karma_ wrote: »
    Bubbles, it is you!

    What?


  • #334
    Mike 1972
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,018 ✭✭✭Mike 1972


    Bebs wrote: »
    I don't see how you can equate an attempt to wrest military control of Dublin from the British army with ramming an airplane full of non-combatants into a building full of non-combatants.

    First off I didnt (initially at least) I questioned the logic of the age old mantra of unquestioning respect for those who willingly kill die for thier beliefs (TM)

    But since youve brought it up : wrest military control of Dublin from the British army do you seriously believe they stood a snowball in hells chance of doing such a thing ?

    It was a suicide mission and they were well aware of it.


  • #335
    Bebs
    Closed Accounts Posts: 111 ✭✭Bebs


    owenc wrote: »
    Both of them obviously.

    I'll have to agree to disagree with you then. I'm no republican but I do recognise the sacrifice that those men made in the pursuit of self determination for their country.

    Perhaps the aim of the game wasn't to roll the British army back. They must've known that they couldn't match the might of the Empire but perhaps they were hoping to inspire their countrymen and women.


  • #336
    owenc
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,524 ✭✭✭owenc


    Bebs wrote: »
    I'll have to agree to disagree with you then. I'm no republican but I do recognise the sacrifice that those men made in the pursuit of self determination for their country.

    Yes but they killed people, so i will reconise no sacrifice.


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  • #337
    Wolfe Tone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭Wolfe Tone


    Mike 1972 wrote: »
    First off I didnt (initially at least) I questioned the logic of the age old mantra of unquestioning respect for those who willingly kill die for thier beliefs (TM)

    But since youve brought it up : wrest military control of Dublin from the British army do you seriously believe they stood a snowball in hells chance of doing such a thing ?

    It was a suicide mission and if they were well aware of it.
    Prior to the countermanding orders they no doubt believed they would win.

    However blood sacrifice came to the fore no doubt on Easter Sunday, when they arranged to go out with much reduced numbers the following day.

    The fact that the had to courage to persevere despite terrible odds, is part of what makes them heroes.


  • #338
    Wolfe Tone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭Wolfe Tone


    owenc wrote: »
    Yes but they killed people, so i will reconise no sacrifice.
    That, once again, is a very blinkered view.


  • #339
    Bebs
    Closed Accounts Posts: 111 ✭✭Bebs


    owenc wrote: »
    Yes but they killed people, so i will reconise no sacrifice.

    All's fair in love and war.


  • #340
    owenc
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,524 ✭✭✭owenc


    MUSSOLINI wrote: »
    Prior to the countermanding orders they no doubt believed they would win.

    However blood sacrifice came to the fore no doubt on Easter Sunday, when they arranged to go out with much reduced numbers the following day.

    The fact that the had to courage to persevere despite terrible odds, is part of what makes them heroes.

    They aren't hereos, if they killed one of your family members you wouldn't be calling them hereos now and you know fine well you wouldn't.


  • #341
    owenc
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,524 ✭✭✭owenc


    MUSSOLINI wrote: »
    That, once again, is a very blinkered view.

    I SAID EXCEPT PEOPLES views and move on!:mad:


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  • #342
    karma_
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,798 ✭✭✭karma_


    owenc wrote: »
    Yes but they killed people, so i will reconise no sacrifice.

    That is what militaries do Bubbles, they kill people. Do you have any issues with the killing of Afghan or Iraqi civilians by the British or American armed forces? Are they evil. What about the men who fought fascism in Spain in the early days, I guess they were evil and the men who killed and died to stop Hitler, evil were they?

    You know what owen, if your not actually a bona fide troll, then I actually feel sorry for you, for everyone from your parents to your education has let you down.


  • #343
    oscarBravo
    Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 28,822 Mod ✭✭✭✭oscarBravo


    MUSSOLINI wrote: »
    Prior to the countermanding orders they no doubt believed they would win.
    Oh, please. They never had a hope in hell, and they knew it.
    The fact that the had to courage to persevere despite terrible odds, is part of what makes them heroes.
    The fact that they engaged in an act that resulted in Dublin being shelled, and civilians killed, tarnished that heroic image beyond redemption for me, I'm afraid.


  • #344
    lugha
    Registered Users Posts: 3,235 ✭✭✭lugha


    MUSSOLINI wrote: »
    The fact that the had to courage to persevere despite terrible odds, is part of what makes them heroes.
    So wouldn't that make dissident republicans heroes too? I'm sure that at least some of them are driven by principle, but the odds of them getting anywhere are next to nothing too.


  • #345
    Bebs
    Closed Accounts Posts: 111 ✭✭Bebs


    In fairness to Owen, I thought that Mussolini was trolling but then I always get that impression around SF heads.


  • #346
    owenc
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,524 ✭✭✭owenc


    karma_ wrote: »
    That is what militaries do Bubbles, they kill people. Do you have any issues with the killing of Afghan or Iraqi civilians by the British or American armed forces? Are they evil. What about the men who fought fascism in Spain in the early days, I guess they were evil and the men who killed and died to stop Hitler, evil were they?

    You know what owen, if your not actually a bona fide troll, then I actually feel sorry for you, for everyone from your parents to your education has let you down.

    Aw is this because i don't agree with your republican ideas, how about all the unionists terrorise you and and millionuse how would yous like that!


  • #347
    oscarBravo
    Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 28,822 Mod ✭✭✭✭oscarBravo


    No more accusations of trolling. Read the charter, people - and stop getting personal.


  • #348
    Wolfe Tone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭Wolfe Tone


    oscarBravo wrote: »
    Oh, please. They never had a hope in hell, and they knew it. The fact that they engaged in an act that resulted in Dublin being shelled, and civilians killed, tarnished that heroic image beyond redemption for me, I'm afraid.
    I disagree. If the Aud had not been captured and the thousands of rifles and machine guns lost to the oceans depths, I believe they had a good chance. A country wide rebellion was planned remember. That loss relegated it to a Dublin affair.


  • #349
    Bebs
    Closed Accounts Posts: 111 ✭✭Bebs


    oscarBravo wrote: »
    Oh, please. They never had a hope in hell, and they knew it. The fact that they engaged in an act that resulted in Dublin being shelled, and civilians killed, tarnished that heroic image beyond redemption for me, I'm afraid.

    With that sort of logic the Palestinians should be admonished for provoking the Israelis into killing civilians. Silly Palestinians, they've only themselves to blame.


  • #350
    Wolfe Tone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭Wolfe Tone


    owenc wrote: »
    Aw is this because i don't agree with your republican ideas, how about all the unionists terrorise you and and millionuse how would yous like that!

    Hmmmmm

    That never happened against nationalists before surely?


  • #351
    karma_
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,798 ✭✭✭karma_


    owenc wrote: »
    Aw is this because i don't agree with your republican ideas, how about all the unionists terrorise you and and millionuse how would yous like that!

    I'm not even a Republican.

    I have an interest in history sure, but I'm actually more of a Socialist than anything else.


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