judgements

jimmy2806

Hi, I know this is probably not the correct section, but I could not find one. I have a judgement coming up against me and I am trying to find out what happens. I cannot pay this and have no assets. I am not sure that I will even in the country for the case. It is for 10,000 by a bank. What happens one the judgement is got against me. I do not even have any assets. What happens if I dont turn up in court?

mr j tayto

I imagine they will destroy your credit rating before hunting you down like a dog till the end of time. Go to court and sort it out before the beak,then move on with your life.;)

smcgiff

Moved to Legal - hope you get more specific response here...

jimmy2806

mr j tayto wrote: »

I imagine they will destroy your credit rating before hunting you down like a dog till the end of time. Go to court and sort it out before the beak,then move on with your life.;)

Firstly, my credit rating has been damaged due to my business failing. Secendly its not 1970 so haveing a bank "hunt you down like a dog" is not going to happen.
My question was legally what can happen>

Our man in Havana

You will get a circuit court civil bill from the bank. You can choose to defend against it or do nothing. Either way the bank will get a judgement.

After the bank gets a judgement they will send the sheriff around to see if you have goods to the value of the judgement. Normally he goes away empty handed.

Then the bank will summons you to the district court to obtain an instalment order based on your means. The judge decides what you are able to pay if anything.

If the bank gets an instalment order and you don't pay, they will issue a committal summons where the bank will seek to have you imprisoned for failure to pay.

If you own any property in your name or jointly they will seek to register the judgement as a mortgage on the property meaning they get first dibbs on any money left if you sell the house.

Delancey

I read recently that there has been a huge fall in the number of debt commitals to prison - apparently judges are reluctant to grant them in the light of the economic situation.
Personally I think sending people to jail for debt is like something from a Dickens novel - I sometimes wonder are we as ' progressive and modern ' as we like to think.

Lorraine_ie

Judges are now only granting commital orders if the debtor is refusing to pay (i.e has the money). However if they feel the debtor genuinely cannot pay, then they will only reduce the amount in the instalment order. It is in your best interest to attend court for the instalment order anyway in order to prove that you are unable to pay this debt. If you dont turn up, the judge will grant an instalment order to the creditor for whatever amount they wish. Whereas if you are there to prove what your income and expenditure is, the judge will grant an instalment order for only what you can afford. It will be more favourable to you if you turn up.

Cheapo

Hi Back in 2008 a judgment was obtained against me for a Bank loan....since then I have luckily found employment and have been paying the debt of each month...I maybe lucky enough to have this paid of in a few months time and I was just wondering once this has been paid do i need to do anything to clear my name etc? i understand that i will have a bad record on my Credit rating for a further 5 years but will the judgement do any further damage?

many thanks and sorry for high jacking the tread..

Our man in Havana

Make sure the bank gets the courts to mark the judgement as satisfied.

445279.ie

Haddockman wrote: »

You will get a circuit court civil bill from the bank. You can choose to defend against it or do nothing. Either way the bank will get a judgement.

After the bank gets a judgement they will send the sheriff around to see if you have goods to the value of the judgement. Normally he goes away empty handed.

Then the bank will summons you to the district court to obtain an instalment order based on your means. The judge decides what you are able to pay if anything.

If the bank gets an instalment order and you don't pay, they will issue a committal summons where the bank will seek to have you imprisoned for failure to pay.

If you own any property in your name or jointly they will seek to register the judgement as a mortgage on the property meaning they get first dibbs on any money left if you sell the house.

Excellent post, this should be made a sticky

Explains everything in nice simple terms

JD Dublin

Following up what Our Man in Havana said and probably slightly off topic, what has to happen for the judgemetn to be removed from the record? Do you have to apply to the court, or can you ask the bank to remove the judgement? Are they obliged to do so? Should you engage a solicitor to do that?

shaneybaby

JD Dublin wrote: »

Following up what Our Man in Havana said and probably slightly off topic, what has to happen for the judgemetn to be removed from the record? Do you have to apply to the court, or can you ask the bank to remove the judgement? Are they obliged to do so? Should you engage a solicitor to do that?

It kinda depends on which record you're talking about.

The courts record won't change unless the judgment has been obtained by deception or surprise. You can motion the court the judgment was given in.

If you are talking about a court judgment being registered in Stubbs Gazette ie. Johnny Murphy, 1 the lawn, townsville, €218,987.34, Revenue Commissioners, then it will be necessary to have the solicitor(bank) who registered the judgment send in a satisfaction piece, this will require the debt to be paid. As far as i know you can't get a partial satisfaction for part payment before the Judgment is taken off Stubbs Gazette etc.

JD Dublin

Shane thanks for that. Even minor judgements can hang around forever. I just wondered how they can be removed from the record. Basically what you are saying is pay them then get on to the solicitor/bank who registered them in the first place and ask them to notify everyone ( bank, Stubbs etc ) that they are now removed.

shaneybaby

JD Dublin wrote: »

Shane thanks for that. Even minor judgements can hang around forever. I just wondered how they can be removed from the record. Basically what you are saying is pay them then get on to the solicitor/bank who registered them in the first place and ask them to notify everyone ( bank, Stubbs etc ) that they are now removed.

By the bank registering the Judgment in the Court's Office the solicitor for the Creditor has basically said to the world "this lad owes me money". Stubbs Gazette and...i think it's Irish Judgments or something, they go off and check these registers every week and then publish them. Stubbs aren't a court offic but a private enterprise.

Once you pay the debt the solicitor for the creditor will then (well, he/she SHOULD) go and register a satisfaction piece which basically tells the courts office that this fella no longer owes the debt. Stubbs pick up on this again and any judgment searches will show that the debt is satusfied.

I'm actually not 100% on whether a judgment serach will show that the judgment was rgeistered but subsequently paid or whether it will just come up as blank...

Our man in Havana

Judgement will cease to be effective 12 years after the date it was obtained.

Hippo

shaneybaby wrote: »

I'm actually not 100% on whether a judgment serach will show that the judgment was rgeistered but subsequently paid or whether it will just come up as blank...

The judgment will appear as registered and subsequently satisfied

hinault

In the case of a judgement obtained by a trade creditor - as opposed to a judgement obtained by a bank/revenue commissioners - I presume that the same
process takes place ie.sheriff tries to collect on foot of the judgement etc?

Our man in Havana

Yes, normally. The sheriff only appears if the judgement holder tells him to go collect.
Sometimes creditors skip the sheriff (when they know there is nothing to take) and go straight to the instalment order stage.

hinault

Our man in Havana wrote: »

Yes, normally. The sheriff only appears if the judgement holder tells him to go collect.
Sometimes creditors skip the sheriff (when they know there is nothing to take) and go straight to the instalment order stage.

Thanks

shaneybaby

Our man in Havana wrote: »

Yes, normally. The sheriff only appears if the judgement holder tells him to go collect.
Sometimes creditors skip the sheriff (when they know there is nothing to take) and go straight to the instalment order stage.

I find it's a lot more difficult (read it has never worked) if there has never been a sherrif visit i.e. a nulle bonne, unless the debtor agrees to the instalment order that is then it would save time all round really.

JD Dublin

Our man in Havana wrote: »

Judgement will cease to be effective 12 years after the date it was obtained.

Wow thats some length of time for a bad smell to follow you around! Is it just the record of the judgement and that it was satisfied?

shaneybaby

JD Dublin wrote: »

Wow thats some length of time for a bad smell to follow you around! Is it just the record of the judgement and that it was satisfied?

I think it's 12 years in which it can be enforced rather than effective. You can't apply for a well charging order (an order for sale) after 12 years.
"Under section 32 of the Statute of Limitations 1957 the
period for bringing an action seeking a court sale is 12 years from the
date when the action accrues – subject to possible extension where
there has been acknowledgement or part payment. In the case of a
judgment mortgage this means 12 years from the date judgment is
marked – not the date when the judgment mortgage affidavit was
registered."
page 22 http://www.lawreform.ie/_fileupload/CPS%202004%20and%20older/CP%20Judgment%20Mortgages.pdf

The charge sits on the property thereafter (until the debtor dies). at least that's my reading of it...

Section 119 of the 2009 Act clarifies the time from which a right of action accrues in relation to a judgment mortgage.

Our man in Havana

It can be removed by the debtor after it has expired.

shaneybaby

Our man in Havana wrote: »

It can be removed by the debtor after it has expired.

By expired do you mean on the death of the debtor and the estate removes it or after the 12 years? Any source for that? it'd be handy to know. Sound! S

Our man in Havana

They can be removed 12 years after the date of the judgement if the debtor applies to the land registry otherwise if will stay there but will still be unactionable.

shaneybaby

Our man in Havana wrote: »

They can be removed 12 years after the date of the judgement if the debtor applies to the land registry otherwise if will stay there but will still be unactionable.

Fair enough, just can't find it anywhere. Form 76 which is for the discharge of a judgment mortgage only refers to a judgment creditor, i can't find anything in the Land reg rules (or reg of deeds)which says a debtor is allowed remove it after twelve years or otherwise.

LAND REGISTRATION RULES, 1972 section 122 (http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1972/en/si/0230.html) only refers to the Creditor and his/her PR as being allowed to discharge a judgment mortgage.

BTW i believe you i just can't anything about it;)

JD Dublin

A big thanks to all who have answered questions so far, now another few for the legal eagles out there -

One of the judgements which was the subject of the previous emails is now paid off, and the solicitor for the other side has been asked to remove the judgement and has asked for a Deed of Discharge.

(a ) what is a Deed of Discharge?
(b) who is supplosed to fill it in?
(c) where is it to be filed? and
(d) where can one get a copy of it?

One judgement registered has been paid and the opposing solicitor is asking for this document ( Deed of Discharge ).

Again thanks to all who have contributed to this discussion to date.