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Van Morrison between Them and Astral Weeks?

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  • 03-07-2010 11:57am
    #1
    Amazotheamazing
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,048 ✭✭✭


    I know it's something like heresy to admit it, but one of my favourite Van Morrison albums is "Blowin' Your Mind!", an album that was released without his knowledge and one he doesn't seem to rate himself, which was recorded in 1967. I presume these sessions are the foundation for all the cheap "brown-eyed girl" albums that turn up in bargain bins. What I'm wondering is if it's actually worth picking up any of these albums? Just how much of Astral Weeks (or his later stuff) was first sessioned during this period? I know TB Sheets (obviously) was.

    Before anyone asks, part of the reason I like "Blowin' Your Mind!" is because it's a very rudimentary album and you see Morrison is trying out different styles.


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    #2
    lordgoat
    Moderators, Music Moderators Posts: 11,373 Mod ✭✭✭✭lordgoat


    I don't get some of your post. But if you have never heard Astral Weeks go buy it today. It will be the best thing you do this weekend.


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    #3
    dasdog
    Registered Users Posts: 3,665 ✭✭✭dasdog


    Is it really an album as in I've written and recorded these songs and I'm happy to put my name to them? A similar thing worth picking up is The Bang Masters if that's what your asking. And for sure, Astral Weeks...an album from God (if there is one).


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    #4
    Amazotheamazing
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,048 ✭✭✭Amazotheamazing


    lordgoat wrote: »
    I don't get some of your post. But if you have never heard Astral Weeks go buy it today. It will be the best thing you do this weekend.

    Of course I've heard "Astral Weeks", but I'm just curious about what the rest of the "Blowin' Your Mind" sessions are like. Morrison likes to say Astral Weeks was recorded over two days with a pick-up band but occasionally you see other versions of songs like Madame George listed on the "Brown-Eyed Girl" albums, so clearly Astral Weeks grew out of the "Blowin' Your Mind!" sessions, to some extent at any rate. It's clear Morrison himself doesn't rate much of that stuff, but then again, he doesn't rate the song Brown Eyed Girl either (or at least, not as highly as 300 other songs he has written)

    I'm curious to know if there's a different version of Astral Weeks hidden among all the cheap "Brown Eyed Girl" albums, or are they just unlistenable nonsense?


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    #5
    Amazotheamazing
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,048 ✭✭✭Amazotheamazing


    dasdog wrote: »
    Is it really an album as in I've written and recorded these songs and I'm happy to put my name to them? A similar thing worth picking up is The Bang Masters if that's what your asking. And for sure, Astral Weeks...an album from God (if there is one).

    Morrison himself clearly views "Astral Weeks" as his first solo album, so maybe it's unfair to call "Blowin' Your Mind" one of his albums, a semi-official bootleg of some sort? Still, worth a listen, imo.


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    #6
    dasdog
    Registered Users Posts: 3,665 ✭✭✭dasdog


    Amazotheamazing wrote: »
    I'm curious to know if there's a different version of Astral Weeks hidden among all the cheap "Brown Eyed Girl" albums, or are they just unlistenable nonsense?

    I wish there was. Astral Weeks was written and recorded after he left Them and had just taught Jim Morrison (Doors) how to perform. I have a good few bootlegs from when he starting making the big time but I've yet to find a hidden Astral Weeks (some great bootlegs though; Fillmore West, San Francisco, CA - 4.26.70 is one). There is another not so famous gem from later years, Live at Montreux 1980 (DVD). Go get it if you don't have it.


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    #7
    Amazotheamazing
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,048 ✭✭✭Amazotheamazing


    dasdog wrote: »
    I wish there was. Astral Weeks was written and recorded after he left Them and had just taught Jim Morrison (Doors) how to perform. I have a good few bootlegs from when he starting making the big time but I've yet to find a hidden Astral Weeks (some great bootlegs though; Fillmore West, San Francisco, CA - 4.26.70 is one). There is another not so famous gem from later years, Live at Montreux 1980 (DVD). Go get it if you don't have it.

    Yeah, just looking it up on wikipedia now, it seems that the only "Astral Weeks" songs recorded for the Brown Eyed Girl sessions (more properly called the Bang sessions) were Madame George and Beside You. Incidentally, Morrison had two years between leaving them and recording Astral weeks, that's the era I'm asking about.

    Can't shake the feeling that Morrison could release another few albums from that era in the morning if he wanted to. Has he ever released a large boxset like Stringsteen's Tracks or Dylan's Bootleg series (fairly genius idea on Dylan's part, imo, become your own bootlegger and control the myth)


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    #8
    lordgoat
    Moderators, Music Moderators Posts: 11,373 Mod ✭✭✭✭lordgoat


    I actually hate brown eyed girl. I think it's a terrible mushy bland boring song. I get what you're asking now, from what i've in my head from bits and pieces and having a look around today is he seems to have written and played around with the songs in the two year gap and then blitzed them onto a record which would also explain why he could do it in two/three days as he knew how he wanted them. So there may be some versions knocking around but if they are they are under wraps.


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    #9
    Amazotheamazing
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,048 ✭✭✭Amazotheamazing


    Hmm, I was going to pick up Dylan's "Self Portrait" this weekend, but I might have to go out and pick a few of these compilations instead and see what's on them. If it's a bleak musical wasteland I'll let you know!


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    #10
    dasdog
    Registered Users Posts: 3,665 ✭✭✭dasdog


    lordgoat wrote: »
    I actually hate brown eyed girl. I think it's a terrible mushy bland boring song. I get what you're asking now, from what i've in my head from bits and pieces and having a look around today is he seems to have written and played around with the songs in the two year gap and then blitzed them onto a record which would also explain why he could do it in two/three days as he knew how he wanted them. So there may be some versions knocking around but if they are they are under wraps.

    Can't stand it myself. Same goes for Thin Lizzy / Whiskey in the jar. But bland is what sells ads on the radio.


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    #11
    Amazotheamazing
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,048 ✭✭✭Amazotheamazing


    dasdog wrote: »
    Can't stand it myself. Same goes for Thin Lizzy / Whiskey in the jar. But bland is what sells ads on the radio.

    Oddly enough, I don't think Brown Eyed Girl is actually the best song on "Blowin' Your Mind!", TB Sheets, there's a song that gets under your skin and makes it crawl. He Ain't Give You None or Spanish Rose are up there too.

    It's obviously not his best work (by some distance) but for some reason I like it, same with Lucky Town and Springsteen, nowhere near as good as his stuff from the 70's or 80's but for some reason I identify more with it.


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    #12
    henryporter
    Registered Users Posts: 2,089 ✭✭✭henryporter


    Amazotheamazing wrote: »
    it's a bleak musical wasteland
    fairly sums up Dylans 'Self Portrait':D


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    #13
    odonopenmic
    Registered Users Posts: 266 ✭✭odonopenmic


    Amazotheamazing wrote: »
    Yeah, just looking it up on wikipedia now, it seems that the only "Astral Weeks" songs recorded for the Brown Eyed Girl sessions (more properly called the Bang sessions) were Madame George and Beside You. )

    If memory serves, the reason for this is that he was contractually bound to reproduce at least two from these sessions in his first solo album, hence Mme. George and Beside You. This may be sacrilege to some but personally, I prefer the session versions of both songs to the ones on Astral Weeks.

    It's well worth getting a copy in the bargain bins, I think I picked up a 20 track copy for about 5 euro (called Brown Eyed Girl). There are some amazing tunes on there like 'The Back Room'. It's a much happier, bluesier VM to me, he went off all jazz on Astral Weeks. Boo-erns, although it has to be said it's an unreal album.


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    #14
    Amazotheamazing
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,048 ✭✭✭Amazotheamazing


    henryporter wrote: »
    fairly sums up Dylans 'Self Portrait':D

    I don't know, surely there's some good on it, even Shot of Love has Groom's still Waiting at the Alter and Every Grain of Sand...


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    #15
    Amazotheamazing
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,048 ✭✭✭Amazotheamazing


    odonopenmic wrote: »
    If memory serves, the reason for this is that he was contractually bound to reproduce at least two from these sessions in his first solo album, hence Mme. George and Beside You. This may be sacrilege to some but personally, I prefer the session versions of both songs to the ones on Astral Weeks.

    It's well worth getting a copy in the bargain bins, I think I picked up a 20 track copy for about 5 euro (called Brown Eyed Girl). There are some amazing tunes on there like 'The Back Room'. It's a much happier, bluesier VM to me, he went off all jazz on Astral Weeks. Boo-erns, although it has to be said it's an unreal album.

    Yeah, it does seem to be the missing link between Them and Astral Weeks alright. I didn't get a copy this week as could find one with both Madame George and Beside You on it, found ones with one or the other songs but never with both, strange.


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    #16
    henryporter
    Registered Users Posts: 2,089 ✭✭✭henryporter


    Amazotheamazing wrote: »
    I don't know, surely there's some good on it, even Shot of Love has Groom's still Waiting at the Alter and Every Grain of Sand...

    Normally I put it on once a year to see if my ears weren't deceiving me, but even as the first bars of "All the Tired Horses" come into focus, you'll feel a bit like Dylan on the back cover, standing in a field staring up at the sky wondering how did it get to this. Every other Dylan album has its saving grace bar this one.


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    #17
    duckworth
    Registered Users Posts: 274 ✭✭duckworth


    henryporter wrote: »
    Normally I put it on once a year to see if my ears weren't deceiving me, but even as the first bars of "All the Tired Horses" come into focus, you'll feel a bit like Dylan on the back cover, standing in a field staring up at the sky wondering how did it get to this. Every other Dylan album has its saving grace bar this one.

    Bleh, Knocked out Loaded has no saving grace at all. That one's the real pits.

    I like bits of Self Portrait on occasion, but mostly it's awful.

    If you haven't heard "World Gone Wrong" and "Good As I Been to You", get them as a matter of great urgency, they are amazing (especially world gone wrong), and nobody ever talks about them.


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    #18
    henryporter
    Registered Users Posts: 2,089 ✭✭✭henryporter


    duckworth wrote: »
    Bleh, Knocked out Loaded has no saving grace at all. That one's the real pits.

    I like bits of Self Portrait on occasion, but mostly it's awful.

    If you haven't heard "World Gone Wrong" and "Good As I Been to You", get them as a matter of great urgency, they are amazing (especially world gone wrong), and nobody ever talks about them.

    Brownsville Girl on Knocked out Loaded is the only standout track there. Totally agree with you on World Gone Wrong and good as I've Been to You; superb.

    Had another listen to Self Portrait on the way to work: it still sucks - it's only purpose seems to be being the nadir of Dylans career. I wonder was this the album he described in Chronicles as the one he wanted to offend his fans with, to stop them climbing all over his house?

    Sorry for hijacking the Van thread here btw


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    #19
    Amazotheamazing
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,048 ✭✭✭Amazotheamazing


    henryporter wrote: »

    Had another listen to Self Portrait on the way to work: it still sucks - it's only purpose seems to be being the nadir of Dylans career. I wonder was this the album he described in Chronicles as the one he wanted to offend his fans with, to stop them climbing all over his house?

    Yes, along with the out-takes album titled Dylan it's considered the worst of anything he did up to the religious period, and the Dylan album was only released to spite him for moving to Geffen (?) to release Planet Waves.

    Trying to remember Knocked Out Loaded, from what I recall, even Brownsville Girl wasn't good enough to justify the album, though I have a suspicion I just thought it was a dull, bland album moreso than it being unlistenable.


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    #20
    stovelid
    Closed Accounts Posts: 27,252 ✭✭✭✭stovelid


    Love Blowing Your Mind, OP.

    Think a lot of it found it's way on to an album called TB Sheets as well.


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    #21
    duckworth
    Registered Users Posts: 274 ✭✭duckworth


    henryporter wrote: »
    Brownsville Girl on Knocked out Loaded is the only standout track there. Totally agree with you on World Gone Wrong and good as I've Been to You; superb.

    Had another listen to Self Portrait on the way to work: it still sucks - it's only purpose seems to be being the nadir of Dylans career. I wonder was this the album he described in Chronicles as the one he wanted to offend his fans with, to stop them climbing all over his house?

    Sorry for hijacking the Van thread here btw

    Actually I love Brownsville Girl - completely forgot that was on Knocked out Loaded.


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