Is Irish a dead language?

deise go deo

cyclopath2001 wrote: »

To show their sympathy, over 4 million Irish people who could not attend the protest, spoke English today.

Cyclopath, Get over it, you have this odd notion that speaking English means you reject Irish, That is not the case, I speak English all the time, I dont reject Irish. The same is true of most of the population.:rolleyes:

cyclopath2001

deise go deo wrote: »

Cyclopath, Get over it, you have this odd notion that speaking English means you reject Irish, That is not the case, I speak English all the time, I dont reject Irish. The same is true of most of the population.:rolleyes:

In this case, words do speak louder than actions.

Oasis_Dublin

RandomName2 wrote: »

Nomination for silliest post of the thread so far.

Pro-compulsion parties have won... yes, that's right, every election since 1922. Ignorance is bliss.

Oasis_Dublin

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Considering Fine Gael, the only pro optional party, are on route to an overall majority it is you who is ignoring the will of the Irish people.

Not going to win an overall majority. 38% is no where near one. Don't believe the hype!

Oasis_Dublin

cyclopath2001 wrote: »

.....Which is to use English as their common tongue.

and to vote for pro-compulsion parties. Stop ignoring the parts of the argument which suit your agenda please.

Oasis_Dublin

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

"An Irish solution to an Irish problem"? What does that even mean? I asked you a question and you didn't give me an answer. If you want a united Ireland then these are the kinds of tedious little problems that will have to be worked through. And the solution is to make all "cultural" subjects like Irish and religion optional.

Stupid question? I know people who would have claimed to be Arab if it ment they didn't have to do Irish. Now I'll ask you again. In a united Ireland how would you stop people posing as Unionists to get out of Irish class?

Which part of my reply didn't you understand?

Claiming to be an Arab?! Outrageous! These "terrorists" must be brought to the attention of the Gardaí
/sarcasm
What's wrong with pretending to be an Arab?

Oasis_Dublin

cyclopath2001 wrote: »

To show their sympathy, over 4 million Irish people who could not attend the protest, spoke English today.

"Nomination for silliest post of the thread so far."

Scatman John

deise go deo wrote: »

Cyclopath, Get over it, you have this odd notion that speaking English means you reject Irish, That is not the case, I speak English all the time, I dont reject Irish. The same is true of most of the population.:rolleyes:

Couldn't agree more with ya more Deise. If I could choose my first Language it would be Irish, with English being my 2nd language. But unfortunately, it is dying out and if changes aren't made to the education system it will definitely die out eventually.

Oasis_Dublin

cyclopath2001 wrote: »

Sooner or later you will have to.

The bridge will be crossed when there is a need to cross it. Who knows, maybe the Unionists will move out of the Irish state like they did after 1922. (not promoting this as a policy, just saying it could possibly happen)

cyclopath2001

Oasis_Dublin wrote: »

and to vote for pro-compulsion parties. Stop ignoring the parts of the argument which suit your agenda please.

You don't appreciate the paradox or hypocrisy that is an essential part of being Irish.

deise go deo

Scatman John wrote: »

Couldn't agree more with ya more Deise. If I could choose my first Language it would be Irish, with English being my 2nd language. But unfortunately, it is dying out and if changes aren't made to the education system it will definitely die out eventually.

Irish is not currently dieing, It is growing, as a result of the Gaelscoil movement, however if Enda goes ahead with his plan to make Irish optional for the LC then the death of Irish will be brought into view.

Reform of the Curriculum along the lines of what is proposed here is what is needed, not a policy based on Endas opinion.

marienbad

Oasis_Dublin wrote: »

and to vote for pro-compulsion parties. Stop ignoring the parts of the argument which suit your agenda please.

and why dont you stop quoting parts of the argument that suit you ! you are not seriouuly contending that all those votes in favour of ''pro-compulsion'' parties as you call them were based on their policy towards the Irish language and not on isues like health, education, the economy.

If so you are living in a state of delusion

deise go deo

Here is a video on the Protest against Enda's Policy earlier today.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iLFsH6zfzzo

Gaelge abú:)

cyclopath2001

deise go deo wrote: »

Irish is not currently dieing, It is growing, as a result of the Gaelscoil movement,

You mean that part-time speaking of official homogenised Irish is growing among non native speakers....while the use of traditional, authentic Irish is falling in native speaking communities.

How's the answer to the genitive case question coming along?

deise go deo

cyclopath2001 wrote: »

You mean that part-time speaking of official homogenised Irish is growing among non native speakers....while the use of traditional, authentic Irish is falling in native speaking communities.

Please inform us what exactly is the problem with the Irish spoken in Gaelscoileanna. How dose it differ from your supposed 'Authentic Irish'?

It is Irish, Pure and simple, and is learned to fluency/near fluency. This means that many people in the next generation will be native Irish speakers.

I would also like you to back up your claim about Irish falling in Gaelthachtaí, (Within the last 15 years or so please)

deise go deo

It seams yet another FG Election candidate has come out and criticized Enda's Policy on Irish.

Cllr Brendan Griffin of Kerry South has called it a 'Regressive step'

Describing the measure as “a regressive step in the development of the language”, Cllr. Brendan Griffin is the latest Fine Gael election candidate to state his concern.

Mr Kenny’s proposal has caused “great worry, upset and annoyance” to many of his constituents and would have “negative cultural and economic implications on a local and national level”, the Kerry South candidate said.

Protest over FG language strategy

Focalbhach

Oasis_Dublin wrote: »

Claiming to be an Arab?! Outrageous! These "terrorists" must be brought to the attention of the Gardaí
/sarcasm
What's wrong with pretending to be an Arab?

The original question wasn't great but this is getting a bit silly, to be fair.

cyclopath2001

deise go deo wrote: »

Please inform us what exactly is the problem with the Irish spoken in Gaelscoileanna. How dose it differ from your supposed 'Authentic Irish'?

It is not native, authentic, Irish this can only be learned from native speaking parents.

deise go deo wrote: »

I would also like you to back up your claim about Irish falling in Gaelthachtaí, (Within the last 15 years or so please)

Perhaps you don't read reports about the survival of Irish language? Or maybe the state of Native Irish, as spoken in the Gaeltacht is of no concern to you?

Irish Times Mon 07 Jul 2007
Study sees decline of Irish in Gaeltacht
A new study which predicts the early demise of Irish as a primary Gaeltacht language is to be brought to Cabinet in the autumn, according to the Department of Community, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs.

The study by NUI Galway's Acadamh na hOllscolaiochta Gaeilge and NUI Maynooth's national institute for regional and spatial analysis says that Irish will cease to exist as the language of the "home" and the community in the Gaeltacht within 20 years unless radical measures are taken.

deise go deo

cyclopath2001 wrote: »

It is not native, authentic, Irish this can only be learned from native speaking parents.

Please tell us what the differences are, Why is one 'Authentic' and the other 'artificial'?

I know as a learner, I have never had a problem communicating with a native speaker in my local Gaelthacht, they may say 'Haw mé' and i say 'Tá Mé' but its the same language.

Just like in Waterford we say Well instead of Hello. It dosent make us any more or less 'authentic'

Euroland

deise go deo wrote: »

It is Irish, Pure and simple, and is learned to fluency/near fluency. This means that many people in the next generation will be native Irish speakers.

Do we really need to waist out time on this? Does it add value to our country and our economy?

deise go deo

Euroland wrote: »

Do we really need to waist out time on this? Does it add value to our country and our economy?

Well Dr John Walsh would argue that it would, But you can read his book for that.

Irish Plays Central Role in Socio-Ecomonic Development

The promotion of Irish has a positive influence on Ireland’s socio-economic development and the language should have a central role in the effort now needed to rebuild the country, that’s according to the author of a new book entitled Contests and Contexts: The Irish Language and Ireland’s Socio-Economic Development.

How exactly dose it wast your time? If people want to send their kids to a Gaelscoil, and if those kids want to raise their Kids through Irish, What business is it of yours? What does the economy have to do with it exactly?

Iwasfrozen

Oasis_Dublin wrote: »

Not going to win an overall majority. 38% is no where near one. Don't believe the hype!

Apparently they only need 40% (don't ask me how I'm as confused about it as you are) to get an over all majority.

Oasis_Dublin wrote:

Which part of my reply didn't you understand?

Claiming to be an Arab?! Outrageous! These "terrorists" must be brought to the attention of the Gardaí
/sarcasm
What's wrong with pretending to be an Arab

The "Irish solution to an Irish problem" bit.

They would claim to be any ethnic group that came to mind just to get out of Irish. So they would certainly have no qualms with claiming to be unionist.

aDeener

deise go deo wrote: »

Please tell us what the differences are, Why is one 'Authentic' and the other 'artificial'?

I know as a learner, I have never had a problem communicating with a native speaker in my local Gaelthacht, they may say 'Haw mé' and i say 'Tá Mé' but its the same language.

Just like in Waterford we say Well instead of Hello. It dosent make us any more or less 'authentic'

because it suits his argument :rolleyes:

as you imply yourself, there is a massive difference between the english spoken in various parts of the country and the world. makes it no less 'authentic' - what a stupid way to describe it in the first instance

Permabear

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deise go deo

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

With the way the points system is structured, not to mention how bad the curriculum of Irish is, people will be forced to drop Irish.

This will lead to the death of the language. Something that a great many people are very annoyed about.

As for the idea that FG's policy could cause "negative ... economic implications on a local and national level," that is utterly laughable, especially after what 14 years of FF-led governance has done to the economy.

For the foreseeable future, most young people who take the Leaving Cert will have to emigrate—and I don't see how the ability to speak Irish, of marginal value here in Ireland, will remotely benefit them in Sydney or Vancouver.

If Irish declines, which it most certainly will should FG go ahead with its policy. Then there will be damage done to our economy.

Summer camps are worth 14million to the local economy of Galway alone. If FG makes Irish optional, less people will go on these courses, negativly effecting demostic tourism.

As for the economic impact on a wider scale, see the link I posted above.

deise go deo

IRISH WILL NOT BE REMOVED AS A COMPULSORY LEAVING CERTIFICATE SUBJECT UNTIL IT WILL BE A NATURAL CHOICE FOR ALL STUDENTS

Fine Gael Candidate for Cork North West has made an assurance that Irish will not be removed as compulsory language for the leaving certificate for a generation or two.

It seams that Enda's Plan to make Irish optional will have to wait, if Michael Creed TD is to be believed.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

z0oT

deise go deo wrote: »

Whith the way the points system is structured, not to mention how bad the curriculum of Irish is, people will be forced to drop Irish.

This will lead to the death of the language. Something that a great many people are very annoyed about.

I'd have to agree about the cirriculum of Irish in schools at the minute. Back when I did the leaving cert I disliked Irish as a subject, not the language which I quite enjoyed.

By all means it could be made optional for the Leaving Cert, but not in my opinion without a radical reform eg. - the literature aspect should be removed, and there should be far more focus on the spoken language. Why is it that by the end of the leaving cert. one has as much French/German/Spanish etc. as Irish, when one has only been learning the former(s) for 4/5 years, but the latter for 10+ ?

It's obvious the points system has manys a flaw, but if the Irish was more enjoyable or was seen as "Easy Points", then a very large number of students would do it, so as to whether it was optional or not would not necessarily be a bad thing, if of course the course saw the drastic reform that it needs.

deise go deo

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

Its not that I refuse to admit it, it is that there has yet to be any evidience shown that this is the case.

All evidience shows that the vast majority of people are in favor of the language.
The curriculum is terrible. People who actually try to learn Irish fail to do so.

Some people will choose not to study Irish, But far more people will be forced not to study Irish.

If the language can only be kept "alive" by foisting it upon resentful and unwilling students, which the state has done for the past 75 years without notable effect, then one could be forgiven for not seeing the point in continuing the charade.

I have yet to see any evidience of wide spread resentment, People resent the curriculum they have to study, no doubt about that, But that is not the same as resenting having to study the language.

Again, when asked how people feel about the language, time and again there is a massively positive responce. Where is the resentment? It must be burryed very deep.:rolleyes:

RandomName2

deise go deo wrote: »

Some people will choose not to study Irish, But far more people will be forced not to study Irish.

If, as you say, the only thing keeping Gaeilge from 'dying' is its compulsory nature until the leaving Cert and the only way in which it can possibly grow is through full immersion schooling, then perhaps the kindest thing would be to let it... die, or at least the attempts at revival.

Having said that, even if you concede death, you need not necessarily abandon preservation.