Is Irish a dead language?

RandomName2

marienbad wrote: »

all the scrambling now to move the goalposts, so those that want uni do English , those that want science Uni do English and maths, those that want Irish do Irish and those that just want the plain old leaving do what they like and what they are good at. ( usually the same )

Now what is wrong with that picture?

Because if someone just learns Irish they are absolutely crippled for life both socially and economically?

RandomName2

Judgement Day wrote: »

Way back in this thread I asked could someone tell me how much is spent on promoting the Irish language each year - I genuinely don't know? I heard the figure of €1 billion per annum mentioned on the radio today but I find that hard to believe. Anybody?

It was over €1 billion per annum a couple of years ago but apparently it is less now because of the recession.

Judgement Day

I'm sure that most of us could think of better ways of spending that sort of money but I suppose that wouldn't be patriotic. At least all the people lying on hospital trollies will be able to chat with each other in Irish.

Focalbhach

marienbad wrote: »

all the scrambling now to move the goalposts, so those that want uni do English , those that want science Uni do English and maths, those that want Irish do Irish and those that just want the plain old leaving do what they like andr what they are good at. ( usually the same )

What goalposts? What are you talking about?

There has been a lot of talk since last night about the status of English and maths as if they had suddenly undergone a massive transformation. I'm pointing out that every student in every school in the country is automatically enrolled in English and maths classes throughout their school career. Thus, not 'compulsory', but 'core'. The difference to your average student is negligible. That's all.

Focalbhach

RandomName2 wrote: »

It was over €1 billion per annum a couple of years ago but apparently it is less now because of the recession.

May I ask where you saw/heard that figure?

I'm just curious because if it was here I'll make this point again. Wondering if the third sentence has come true

sparkling sea

caseyann wrote: »

Then they should remove English poetry etc... from the schools its not needed.
Thank god yous cant touch the Irish schools where i will send my kids.:p
I refuse to allow my kids learn English poetry etc.. from now on

Aren't you lucky to have the choice, a choice you want to take from other people because of your own prejudice.

The reading of English peotry is considered to be one of the best way of gaining an understanding of the language and other languages.
Lets hope your children stay here and that your narrow judgement does not impange their chances if they eventually have to leave this country.

By the by the people who are against compulsory Irish are unlikely to want to touch the Gaelscoileanna, and are more likely to believe in parental autonomy.

caseyann

I was going to answer the post the LC student asked, but now i couldn't be arsed.
Welcome to the thread,thank god not real life.

marienbad

Leto wrote: »

What goalposts? What are you talking about?

There has been a lot of talk since last night about the status of English and maths as if they had suddenly undergone a massive transformation. I'm pointing out that every student in every school in the country is automatically enrolled in English and maths classes throughout their school career. Thus, not 'compulsory', but 'core'. The difference to your average student is negligible. That's all.

So you would be happy enough to have Irish as a 'core' subject then ??

Lord TSC

caseyann wrote: »

I was going to answer the post the LC student asked, but now i couldn't be arsed.

Don't worry. It seems like everytime a post comes up that the pro-compuslsion crew can't answer, it's ignored. Why buck the trend now, huh?

Judgement Day

Leto wrote: »

May I ask where you saw/heard that figure?

I'm just curious because if it was here I'll make this point again. Wondering if the third sentence has come true

Which is why I am still looking for definite information. Do you have any?

Focalbhach

marienbad wrote: »

So you would be happy enough to have Irish as a 'core' subject then ??

Did I say that?

RandomName2

Leto wrote: »

May I ask where you saw/heard that figure?

I'm just curious because if it was here I'll make this point again. Wondering if the third sentence has come true

Very annoyingly I cannot find the umpteen articles that widely publicised that figure :mad::mad::mad:

This is the nearest thing for a source:
E1.2 Billion (for this year) -->
http://www.ippn.ie/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=5877:walsh-urges-halving-irish-language-budget-independentie&catid=50:education-news&Itemid=158

Focalbhach

Judgement Day wrote: »

Which is why I am still looking for definite information. Do you have any?

I don't, I'm afraid. I just liked the idea of the figure you introduced a few pages back being fed back by another poster as confirmation of itself

caseyann

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

Don't worry. It seems like everytime a post comes up that the pro-compuslsion crew can't answer, it's ignored. Why buck the trend now, huh?

Why the hell should i contribute to this thread with the asshole comment from the post above me and the ****ty attitudes like this one? I can answer them no problem just couldnt be arsed.Pathetic come back

For the LC student take it up with your parents they should have took you out of Irish when you struggled.their fault.

marienbad

Leto wrote: »

Did I say that?

Well you did point out the difference is 'negligible' did you not ?

Judgement Day

Leto wrote: »

I don't, I'm afraid. I just liked the idea of the figure you introduced a few pages back being fed back by another poster as confirmation of itself

Well I hope the post just before yours by RandomPost2 puts you back in your box. When you add the cost of teaching the language in school to the cost of TG4, Udaras na Gaeltachta, duplication of official documentation etc.etc. , the total cost must be absolutely staggering. Come on CaseyAnn - let's be hearing from you.

RandomName2

caseyann wrote: »

Why the hell should i contribute to this thread with the asshole comment from the post above me and the ****ty attitudes like this one? I can answer them no problem just couldnt be arsed.Pathetic come back

For the LC student take it up with your parents they should have took you out of Irish when you struggled.their fault.

taken

caseyann

RandomName2 wrote: »

taken

Took

Lord TSC

caseyann wrote: »

Why the hell should i contribute to this thread with the asshole comment from the post above me and the ****ty attitudes like this one? I can answer them no problem just couldnt be arsed.Pathetic come back

You're deflecting. It's not a bad attitude to ask people to answer questions. It's a bad attitude to ignore posts which logically go against your views, and then claim you won't answer one post cause you couldn't be arsed. It shows you're struggling to find a decent retort so are trying to casually imply your answer is so magnificent, it does not need saying.

For the LC student take it up with your parents they should have took you out of Irish when you struggled.their fault.

They probably couldn't; I'd imagine that being bad at a subject is not enough to get out of it due to its compulsory nature. What we're arguing for is the chance to leave a subject if you're bad at it. You may have failed to notice this but you've just suggested what all of the pro-options crowd want to happen; if someone is bad at a subject or doesn't want to pursue it, they have the option to be taken or to drop out of it. You claim it's the parent's fault but with no choice at the moment, it isn't.

Lord TSC

RandomName2 wrote: »

taken

I wouldn't bother; you're trying to deal with someone who thinks English as a subject is not important...

caseyann

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

You're deflecting. It's not a bad attitude to ask people to answer questions. It's a bad attitude to ignore posts which logically go against your views, and then claim you won't answer one post cause you couldn't be arsed. It shows you're struggling to find a decent retort so are trying to casually imply your answer is so magnificent, it does not need saying.



They probably couldn't; I'd imagine that being bad at a subject is not enough to get out of it due to its compulsory nature. What we're arguing for is the chance to leave a subject if you're bad at it. You may have failed to notice this but you've just suggested what all of the pro-options crowd want to happen; if someone is bad at a subject or doesn't want to pursue it, they have the option to be taken or to drop out of it. You claim it's the parent's fault but with no choice at the moment, it isn't.

No its shows i wont be attacked on a thread for no reason.

I will say it again,i went to school with people who were allowed out of Irish because asked to be let out by parents,and they cant force anyone to do Irish.
That is age old myth you all buy into,and parents fault for not being more observant of their childs unhappiness.

Focalbhach

RandomName2 wrote: »

Very annoyingly I cannot find the umpteen articles that widely publicised that figure :mad::mad::mad:

This is the nearest thing for a source:
E1.2 Billion (for this year) -->
http://www.ippn.ie/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=5877:walsh-urges-halving-irish-language-budget-independentie&catid=50:education-news&Itemid=158

Judgement Day wrote: »

Well I hope the post just before yours by RandomPost2 puts you back in your box.

I suppose it does! :cool: Although that €1.2 billion (without further explanation) seems suspiciously close to the very arbitrary estimate given on politics.ie... maybe I'll channel cyclopath here:

cyclopath2001 wrote: »

Well, first off you've relied on the Irish Independent, which is really, very unwise.

Appreciate the effort you put in though!

Lord TSC

caseyann wrote: »

No its shows i wont be attacked on a thread for no reason.

I will say it again,i went to school with people who were allowed out of Irish because asked to be let out by parents,and they cant force anyone to do Irish.
That is age old myth you all buy into,and parents fault for not being more observant of their childs unhappiness.

Surely then you'd be open to it being made optional? The only difference between the situation you're describing and the reality of the current system is your school's parents were made aware of the options available. Surely in this case, you'd be happy with making the option garrunteed and informing everyone of this option?

Focalbhach

marienbad wrote: »

Well you did point out the difference is 'negligible' did you not ?

Yes. The difference to the average student is negligible. How or why you're drawing conclusions about my own views from that, I'm not sure.

bonkey

A bit less aggro wouldn't be a bad thing around here, please-and-thank-you

caseyann

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

Surely then you'd be open to it being made optional? The only difference between the situation you're describing and the reality of the current system is your school's parents were made aware of the options available. Surely in this case, you'd be happy with making the option garrunteed and informing everyone of this option?

No they were not,they marched into the school,said their child is struggling with Irish no longer wishes to do it and would like to be let out of Irish and they moved to another class during Irish period.
I couldnt give a toss if its optional i would like all subject to be optional.I dont think some kids can even cope with maths and English poetry or Irish poetry or lit or art history appreciation but like art(and are forced to do art appreciation). All kids should have a choice for what their subjects are.
Separate classes is the answer,kids whos parents want them to learn Irish and kids whos parents dont care either way.:)

marienbad

Leto wrote: »

Yes. The difference to the average student is negligible. How or why you're drawing conclusions about my own views from that, I'm not sure.

well, a central theme running through the pro-compulsion proponents on these threads has been the that maths and english are also compulsory for the Leaving and if it is right for those subjects why is not not ok for Irish. Or, to put it another way, why are the anti compulsion crowd not agitating against these examples,
Now that the crutch has been demolished a new world enters the discussion -''core'' subjects .

If as you say the difference is negligible what objection can you have to Irish being a 'core' subject ?

Focalbhach

marienbad wrote: »

If as you say the difference is negligible what objection can you have to Irish being a 'core' subject ?

I can't see that there would be one but, since I don't think I have ever made that argument, I'll leave it to those who do to answer for themselves.

marienbad

Leto wrote: »

I can't see that there would be one but, since I don't think I have ever made that argument, I'll leave it to those who do to answer for themselves.

your original post introducing the term ''core'' subject implied it by any reasonable reading of the English language.

Focalbhach

marienbad wrote: »

your original post introducing the term ''core'' subject implied it by any reasonable reading of the English language.

I might quibble with the assumption that your reading of what I say is reasonable, but in any case: no, that was not the intention.