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Is Irish a dead language?

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    #3422
    Oasis_Dublin
    Registered Users Posts: 2,467 ✭✭✭Oasis_Dublin


    Glad the Fianna Fáil spin has been taken off the Blueshirts' reasonable proposals.


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    #3423
    deise go deo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,677 ✭✭✭deise go deo


    Oasis_Dublin wrote: »
    Glad the Fianna Fáil spin has been taken off the Blueshirts' reasonable proposals.

    It wasent FF spin, Enda Kenny has wanted to make Irish optional for years(Since 2005) Labor however have decided that they will not support removing Irish as a core subject for the LC. This is the compromise they have reached. Both agree that there needs to be reform, so they have decided to do that first, and they have decided not to decide on making it optional.


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    #3424
    Oasis_Dublin
    Registered Users Posts: 2,467 ✭✭✭Oasis_Dublin


    deise go deo wrote: »
    It wasent FF spin, Enda Kenny has wanted to make Irish optional for years(Since 2005) Labor however have decided that they will not support removing Irish as a core subject for the LC. This is the compromise they have reached. Both agree that there needs to be reform, so they have decided to do that first, and they have decided not to decide on making it optional.

    His manifesto proposed increasing the percentage given for the oral part of the LC examination and he proposed consultation with Irish language bodes. Compulsion would not be removed without consulation, which appears to be the same as what is going to happen now.

    If Mary Hanafin was to be believed, we were going to be going to bed as Gaelic warriors one sunday night and waking up as east Americans/west Britons the following morning.


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    #3425
    deise go deo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,677 ✭✭✭deise go deo


    Oasis_Dublin wrote: »
    His manifesto proposed increasing the percentage given for the oral part of the LC examination and he proposed consultation with Irish language bodes. Compulsion would not be removed without consulation, which appears to be the same as what is going to happen now.

    If Mary Hanafin was to be believed, we were going to be going to bed as Gaelic warriors one sunday night and waking up as east Americans/west Britons the following morning.

    To be honest I don't really bother listening to what Hanafin has to say. At this stage if FF say something is up I will assume its down until proven otherwise.

    However, if some members of FG such as James Reilly were to be believed, then Irish was going to be made optional, it was put forward as a fait accompli. Now however it is just going to be considered sometime in the future.

    As long as they come through and implement reform in how Irish is taught first then I will be happy.


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    #3426
    cyclopath2001
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,359 ✭✭✭cyclopath2001


    deise go deo wrote: »
    As long as they come through and implement reform in how Irish is taught first then I will be happy.
    True reform would allow children and their parents to make a choice.


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    #3427
    deise go deo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,677 ✭✭✭deise go deo


    cyclopath2001 wrote: »
    True reform would allow children and their parents to make a choice.


    In your opinion, As far as I am concerned, reforming the curriculum is a vital first step in any case.


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    #3428
    cyclopath2001
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,359 ✭✭✭cyclopath2001


    deise go deo wrote: »
    In your opinion, As far as I am concerned, reforming the curriculum is a vital first step in any case.
    Yes, indeed compulsory Irish lessons and a 'reformed' curriculum are steps towards your organisation's Main Aim.


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    #3429
    Oasis_Dublin
    Registered Users Posts: 2,467 ✭✭✭Oasis_Dublin


    cyclopath2001 wrote: »
    Yes, indeed compulsory Irish lessons and a 'reformed' curriculum are steps towards your organisation's Main Aim.

    That record is broken, you really should change it.


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    #3430
    cyclopath2001
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,359 ✭✭✭cyclopath2001


    Oasis_Dublin wrote: »
    That record is broken, you really should change it.
    It must be very annoying for you not to be able to subdue the truth.


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    #3431
    Oasis_Dublin
    Registered Users Posts: 2,467 ✭✭✭Oasis_Dublin


    cyclopath2001 wrote: »
    It must be very annoying for you not to be able to subdue the truth.

    Fine Gael have switched from wanting to destroy the Irish language to wanting to keep the compulsion and increase the percentage of marks given to the oral exam, as I suggested, in a few shorts weeks. I can only presume they took this decision based upon the recommendations of yours truly.

    I would suggest that the rebuttal you gave was an attempt to point out your own flaws in others. Change the record, it's not playing a sound that anyone can relate to anymore.


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    #3432
    electrictrad
    Registered Users Posts: 367 ✭✭electrictrad


    Ceapaim nach bhfuil se marbh ar chor ar bith, agus is féidir í a neartú agus a chothú, ach caithfimíd tosnú á núsáíd níos mó sa saol. . .b'fheidir go bhfuil sé níos oiriúnach an díospóireacht seo a leanúint as gaeilge?!


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    #3433
    Oasis_Dublin
    Registered Users Posts: 2,467 ✭✭✭Oasis_Dublin


    electrictrad wrote: »
    Ceapaim nach bhfuil se marbh ar chor ar bith, agus is féidir í a neartú agus a chothú, ach caithfimíd tosnú á núsáíd níos mó sa saol. . .b'fheidir go bhfuil sé níos oiriúnach an díospóireacht seo a leanúint as gaeilge?!

    We were already hung out to dry for attempting to throw in a few Irish phrases here and there. Apparently this is an English speaking forum and no Fenians shall use the Leprechaun language, as such. (!)


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    #3434
    Melodeon
    Registered Users Posts: 2,346 ✭✭✭Melodeon


    electrictrad wrote: »
    Ceapaim nach bhfuil se marbh ar chor ar bith, agus is féidir í a neartú agus a chothú, ach caithfimíd tosnú á núsáíd níos mó sa saol. . .b'fheidir go bhfuil sé níos oiriúnach an díospóireacht seo a leanúint as gaeilge?!
    Translation?


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    #3435
    electrictrad
    Registered Users Posts: 367 ✭✭electrictrad


    Oasis_Dublin wrote: »
    We were already hung out to dry for attempting to throw in a few Irish phrases here and there. Apparently this is an English speaking forum and no Fenians shall use the Leprechaun language, as such. (!)

    Well then, I think that answers the question of the thread, dontcha think? . . .a thread on whether Irish is a dead language or not, and one of the rules is that you can't speak Irish. . . .

    Well, to hell with the Penal Laws. . .Gaeilge Abú!!!!!!!!. . . .


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    #3436
    electrictrad
    Registered Users Posts: 367 ✭✭electrictrad


    Melodeon wrote: »
    Translation?

    "I don't think it's dead at all, and it can be strengthened and protected, but we have to start using it more. . .maybe it's more appropriate to continue this thread in Irish?!"


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    #3437
    deise go deo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,677 ✭✭✭deise go deo


    electrictrad wrote: »
    Ceapaim nach bhfuil se marbh ar chor ar bith, agus is féidir í a neartú agus a chothú, ach caithfimíd tosnú á núsáíd níos mó sa saol. . .b'fheidir go bhfuil sé níos oiriúnach an díospóireacht seo a leanúint as gaeilge?!

    Aontaím Leat.
    I agree with you


    Tá cead ann an Ghaeilge a úsáid nuair aistriúchán i mBéarla ar fáil freisin.
    You can post in Irish if you provide an English Translation too.


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    #3438
    deise go deo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,677 ✭✭✭deise go deo


    Irish Times: Review of Leaving and Junior Cert promised

    THE PROGRAMME for government has backed away from controversial Fine Gael policies on the Irish language and third-level fees – but it is promising a review of both the Leaving and Junior Cert exams.

    While Fine Gael planned to abolish Irish as a compulsory Leaving Cert subject, the programme says it will only “consider the question of whether Irish should be optional for Leaving Cert’’ after implementing steps to improve the quality and effectiveness of Irish teaching in schools.


    I have to say I welcome this. I look forward to see what reforms in how Irish is taught will be put in place. Hopefully they will have the effect of bringing the revival of Irish forward to a place where making it an optional subject will not be damaging to the future of the language. Such a point is well into the future however.

    Till then I wish the new government all the best in their plans to reform and improve how the language is taught.


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    #3439
    nesf
    Registered Users Posts: 27,645 ✭✭✭✭nesf


    electrictrad wrote: »
    Ceapaim nach bhfuil se marbh ar chor ar bith, agus is féidir í a neartú agus a chothú, ach caithfimíd tosnú á núsáíd níos mó sa saol. . .b'fheidir go bhfuil sé níos oiriúnach an díospóireacht seo a leanúint as gaeilge?!

    Hey as deise said, please provide a translation if you post in Irish, this is an English language forum and as such English is mandatory. If you want to post solely in Irish and communicate solely in Irish please try out Teach na nGealt (a subforum of After Hours in the Rec category) which is dedicated to Irish only communication.

    Sorry about this requirement but since most posters in this forum do not sufficient Irish to be able to follow a debate as Gaeilge, it is only polite and proper that posts are in English.


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    #3440
    nesf
    Registered Users Posts: 27,645 ✭✭✭✭nesf


    Oh and it amuses me that I'm raising my kids in what's apparently a dead language... :D

    My wife's a native speaker, my written Irish is really poor though takes me bloody ages to read anything. Spoken Irish is improving though.


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    #3441
    cyclopath2001
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,359 ✭✭✭cyclopath2001


    Oasis_Dublin wrote: »
    Fine Gael have switched from wanting to destroy the Irish
    That's a hysterical straw man argument.
    Oasis_Dublin wrote:
    Change the record, it's not playing a sound that anyone can relate to anymore.
    After 80 years, you'd think the Irish enthusiasts would relate better to their fellow citizens and allow them to choose what language they and their children can speak. instead, we just get more of the same but with a 'reformed curriculum'.


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    #3442
    dubhthach
    Registered Users Posts: 3,284 ✭✭✭dubhthach


    deise go deo wrote: »
    Irish Times: Review of Leaving and Junior Cert promised





    I have to say I welcome this. I look forward to see what reforms in how Irish is taught will be put in place. Hopefully they will have the effect of bringing the revival of Irish forward to a place where making it an optional subject will not be damaging to the future of the language. Such a point is well into the future however.

    Till then I wish the new government all the best in their plans to reform and improve how the language is taught.

    There's also the issue regarding access to Irish medium schools. At the moment there is only space for 12k~ students in Gaelcholáiste (secondary) in the state. In comparison there's about three times the number of children in Gaelscoileanna (primary).

    On an 8 year primary cycle that equals: 4,500 kids per year
    On a 6 year secondary cycle that equals: 2,000 kids per year

    As a result over 50% of children in 6th class in Gaelscoileanna will not have an option to continue their studies in Irish (if they so want to) when they go to secondary.

    In general I think there is quite abit of support for Irish medium schools (Gaelscoil/Gaelcholáiste) among the public and I think making it easier to access such schools will have a beneficial effect on the language.


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    #3443
    aDeener
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,487 ✭✭✭aDeener


    it is certainly not a dead topic for discussion anyway


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    #3444
    cyclopath2001
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,359 ✭✭✭cyclopath2001


    aDeener wrote: »
    it is certainly not a dead topic for discussion anyway
    Story in the Irish Times shows that one Gaeltacht will be defended by a full Irish speaking battalion together with Irish speaking horses.


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    #3445
    Bottle_of_Smoke
    Registered Users Posts: 9,770 ✭✭✭Bottle_of_Smoke


    dubhthach wrote: »
    There's also the issue regarding access to Irish medium schools. At the moment there is only space for 12k~ students in Gaelcholáiste (secondary) in the state. In comparison there's about three times the number of children in Gaelscoileanna (primary).

    That's interesting - how did that come about? Is it easier to set up a primary school or just less demand at second level?

    I suppose from their perspective they'll be fluent in irish after 8 years anyway, but maybe still slightly better at English so prefer to do subjects through that


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    #3446
    dubhthach
    Registered Users Posts: 3,284 ✭✭✭dubhthach


    Bottle_of_Smoke wrote: »
    That's interesting - how did that come about? Is it easier to set up a primary school or just less demand at second level?

    I suppose from their perspective they'll be fluent in irish after 8 years anyway, but maybe still slightly better at English so prefer to do subjects through that

    Well there's been a huge growth in number of Gaelscoileanna (primaries) over the last 15years. As there hasn't been similar growth in number of Gaelcholáiste you end up with a bottleneck. There are a couple counties that don't even have a Gaelcholáiste. Even those counties that do don't have many.

    For example Galway only has two Gaelcholáiste outside of the Gaeltacht, one in Galway city (Coláiste na Corribe -- setup around 93/94) and a new one in Athenry -- I know there's a campaign been run for a new one in and around Stillorgan area. Plenty of potential feeder schools however the Dept of Education has not recognised any new Gaelscoil/Gaelcholáiste since 2008! So the school in Rathtoath at the moment is unrecognised and only supported by the parents/community.

    In general given the lack of planning regarding school buildings in this country (even though we gather demographic data every 5 years in form of census) it's not an altogether surprising issue.


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    #3447
    Kosseegan
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 987 ✭✭✭Kosseegan


    cyclopath2001 wrote: »
    Story in the Irish Times shows that one Gaeltacht will be defended by a full Irish speaking battalion together with Irish speaking horses.


    Irish speaking battalion my ass. A friend of mine spent two weeks there. The only Irish he saw or heard was a sign with meal times was Irish and the names of the past commanding officers on a board were in Irish.


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    #3448
    deise go deo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,677 ✭✭✭deise go deo


    Kosseegan wrote: »
    Irish speaking battalion my ass. A friend of mine spent two weeks there. The only Irish he saw or heard was a sign with meal times was Irish and the names of the past commanding officers on a board were in Irish.

    A friend of yours said? If thats what they said then I would take it with a pinch of salt as there is no possibility that they dident hear Irish. Why were they there anyway? Are they in the RDF? If so they should definatly have heard Irish as it gets shouted at them a lot. Clé is Left Deas is right etc.

    All drill orders given in the Army are through Irish.(Not just in An Céad Cath)

    Maybe they were wearing hearing protection the whole time? :D


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    #3449
    cyclopath2001
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,359 ✭✭✭cyclopath2001


    deise go deo wrote: »
    All drill orders given in the Army are through Irish.(Not just in An Céad Cath)
    This of course would be wholly in the tradition of compulsory Irish and a model for the future of the language. Irish speaking soldiers, Gardai and family counsellors are an important part of the 20 year strategy to make more people speak Irish.


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    #3450
    deise go deo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,677 ✭✭✭deise go deo


    cyclopath2001 wrote: »
    This of course would be wholly in the tradition of compulsory Irish and a model for the future of the language. Irish speaking soldiers, Gardai and family counsellors are an important part of the 20 year strategy to make more people speak Irish.

    Read into it what you want, but don't expect many people to take you seriously.:rolleyes:


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    #3451
    cyclopath2001
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,359 ✭✭✭cyclopath2001


    deise go deo wrote: »
    Read into it what you want, but don't expect many people to take you seriously.:rolleyes:
    it's understandable that you'd want to downplay the absurdities of Irish language policy and the actions of its supporters.

    Why do we need a battalion of (allegedly) Irish speaking soldiers in Galway?


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