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Is Irish a dead language?
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deise go deo wrote: »Not entirely true, there is really nothing to stop you from just refusing to do it.
As I said, there is no law making people do it, and there is no requirement to sit the Irish Exam.
It is possible to just not do it.
On that basis, Irish is no more compulsory than English or maths.
Except, as was pointed out several times during the general elections, Irish IS complusory and is the only subject that is legally compulsory as judged by the department of education.
To be eligible to get out of the subject, you must be...
* Students whose primary education up to 11 years of age was received in Northern Ireland or outside Ireland
* Students who were enrolled in a primary or post-primary school and who are now enrolling again after having been abroad. The student must have been abroad for at least three years. The student must be at least 11 years of age when re-enrolling.
* Students who function at an average or above-average level of ability, but who have a specific learning difficulty that is so severe that they cannot reach expected levels of attainment in their mother tongue.
* Students who have a general learning disability due to a serious intellectual impairment and who are not acquiring basic language skills in their mother tongue.
* Students who have a general learning disability on account of a serious sensory impairment, and who are not learning basic language skills in their mother tongue
Source: http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/education/the_irish_education_system/exemption_from_irish.html
So you cannot just choose not to do the language, at least not without proving there is something wrong with your ability to learn. To do that, you mst provide psychologist documentation to prove you have a learning disability. The other option is to come from outside the country, which I'd imagine isn't an option for most
And I do not know what school you went to, but you cannot simply "refuse" to do a subject without serious ramifications from the school, especially a core and compulsory subject. 0 -
Teamshadowclan wrote: »Except, as was pointed out several times during the general elections, Irish IS complusory and is the only subject that is legally compulsory as judged by the department of education.
To be eligible to get out of the subject, you must be...
* Students whose primary education up to 11 years of age was received in Northern Ireland or outside Ireland
* Students who were enrolled in a primary or post-primary school and who are now enrolling again after having been abroad. The student must have been abroad for at least three years. The student must be at least 11 years of age when re-enrolling.
* Students who function at an average or above-average level of ability, but who have a specific learning difficulty that is so severe that they cannot reach expected levels of attainment in their mother tongue.
* Students who have a general learning disability due to a serious intellectual impairment and who are not acquiring basic language skills in their mother tongue.
* Students who have a general learning disability on account of a serious sensory impairment, and who are not learning basic language skills in their mother tongue
Source: http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/education/the_irish_education_system/exemption_from_irish.html
So you cannot just choose not to do the language, at least not without proving there is something wrong with your ability to learn. To do that, you mst provide psychologist documentation to prove you have a learning disability. The other option is to come from outside the country, which I'd imagine isn't an option for most And I do not know what school you went to, but you cannot simply "refuse" to do a subject without serious ramifications from the school, especially a core and compulsory subject.
What kind of ramifications? The school can't make you sit the exam.
They can place you in an Irish class, but they can't make you take part.
If the student does not want to do it, nothing can be done by the school to force them.
The subject is not 'Legally Compulsory'
The mechanism for schools getting a capitation for a student is that the student is registered as taking Irish as a subject.
If the student doesn't do Irish, the school doesn't get any money for teaching them. As such, the schools make Irish compulsory.0 -
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OK can we move on from the debate on 'is it/is it not compulsory' now? I think it's been well trashed out.
Just to add to Godge, and people may disagree, but I can't help but feel the compuslory question is the biggest one in any discussion on the prevelance of Irish. It's really the only time in our lives that everyone is subjected to the subject.
Outside of schools, everyone is given the choice of whether to use it or not, and outside of schools, the question doesn't matter; people who speak Irish speak it, and those who don't want to do have to. In otherwords, outside of the debate on the academic nature of the language, everyone gets to make their own opinion of the question and adjust their lives accordingly.
Schools are the only place where people don't get to make said priorities for themselves and thus is, in my opinion, the biggest part of the debate
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deise go deo wrote: »I am simply pointing out that Irish is not as compulsory as some would like to put forward, in terms of English and maths, there is far less option not to do them than there is Irish. Yet Irish is supposedly the only compulsory subject.
Irish is compulsory for the reason I have said.
If schools did not make Irish compulsory they would suffer a financial hit, as such they make Irish compulsory.
As for screwing themselves over in terms of a Uni course, the very same is true for supposedly 'optional' English and Maths'
Several people have claimed that Irish is the only compulsory subject. I don't recall you making that point in relation to those claims.
English and Maths are required for Uni because the Uni requires them.
A *third* language is required because the Uni requires them.
Two science subjects are required for a science course because the Uni requires them.
Honours maths is required for a maths course because the Uni requires it.
Irish is required because the state requires it.
Trinity College Dublin does not require Irish.
It is the leading Irish third level institute.
It does not require Irish.
How can you go to an Irish Uni, without doing Irish? Don't be Irish
(or go to Trinity).
It's compulsory, it's compulsory, it's compulsory. Saying anything else is just hand waving bullsh*t used to support the compulsory position. It's like saying paying your taxes is optional.
Why not make it optional?0 -
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This discussion has been closed.
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