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Is Irish a dead language?
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I think the Irish language should be optional in schools. that the government has no role to play in trying to resuscitate it and that if Irish is to take root all over the country it will have to do so because people actively seek to learn it, maybe through community groups, GAA or something organic anyway.
A secondary factor, but still relevant, is the fact that we all type the word Irish here as if its all the one, but in reality there are different dialects (is that the right term?) I have an aunt in Donegal and I can't understand her English half the time. I've heard her speaking Irish, and don't get a word of it.
This accounts for maybe 15% of the reason why I think that the government and schools should stay out of Irish, because if people are looking for an overhaul of how Irish is taught through the present school system, its going to be the same interest groups that are there now(and look at the great job they do) that will be around the table deciding how to take Irish forward.So change will equal no change.
And on a more light hearted note, I will say that its really funny how there are so many makey uppy words in Irish, I watched some tennis on TG4 before and I'm fairly certain that the commentators made up the tennis vocab themselves. brilliant
I wouldn't be bothered personally if the language dies or flourishes.
I'd be interested in knowing though how many people think that the state should play an active role in promoting Irish and how many think that the state should stay out of it.0 -
I think the Irish language should be optional in schools. that the government has no role to play in trying to resuscitate it and that if Irish is to take root all over the country it will have to do so because people actively seek to learn it, maybe through community groups, GAA or something organic anyway.
A secondary factor, but still relevant, is the fact that we all type the word Irish here as if its all the one, but in reality there are different dialects (is that the right term?) I have an aunt in Donegal and I can't understand her English half the time. I've heard her speaking Irish, and don't get a word of it.
This accounts for maybe 15% of the reason why I think that the government and schools should stay out of Irish, because if people are looking for an overhaul of how Irish is taught through the present school system, its going to be the same interest groups that are there now(and look at the great job they do) that will be around the table deciding how to take Irish forward.So change will equal no change.
And on a more light hearted note, I will say that its really funny how there are so many makey uppy words in Irish, I watched some tennis on TG4 before and I'm fairly certain that the commentators made up the tennis vocab themselves. brilliant
I wouldn't be bothered personally if the language dies or flourishes.
I'd be interested in knowing though how many people think that the state should play an active role in promoting Irish and how many think that the state should stay out of it.
There's not a huge difference between the dialects. Generally there's some unique vocabulary, it's fairly equivalent to comparing "accents/dialects" of English. For example in context of Hiberno-English:
Belfast, North Cork (city) and Inner City Dublin are quite different from each other but generally there isn't a problem with speakers understanding each other. Of course if you then bring in an american they tend to have problems mainly due to speed of Hiberno-English especially when heavily accented.
By analogy often L2 (non-native) Irish speakers/learners have trouble initially understaning people from Gaeltacht due to speed of speech. I listen to about 3 hours of RnaG a day nowadays (streaming over internet) and have generally no issues understanding a Donegal speaker (older speakers are most troublesome) -- back when I did the Leaving everyone dreaded if a Donegal speaker came on the tape during the Aural.
I also think the traditional means of teaching was flawed in that tape recordings of native speakers were only used when it came near exam time. Surely part of teaching is to ensure the pupils can hear examples of proper pronunciation.
As for community driven, well this is situation with the Gaelscoilleanna. They are all community driven, mainly as teaching through medium of Irish became almost extinct outside the Gaeltacht during the 1970's When there was only 11 primary schools teaching through Irish. This has grown to 298. These schools have been created by parents grouping together, as a result many Gaelscoilleanna still in prefabs etc.
If anything the state hasn't recognised a new Gaelscoil since 2008 even though there is a built up demand. Going by current demand the number of pupils in Gaelscoileanna will more then double in the next 15years!0 -
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And on a more light hearted note, I will say that its really funny how there are so many makey uppy words in Irish, I watched some tennis on TG4 before and I'm fairly certain that the commentators made up the tennis vocab themselves. brilliant
Powerful argument here. Someone who doesn't care whether or not the language goes under or not, who and doesn't have a decent grasp of it, can't understand the tennis commentators on TG4 and thus assumes the vocab they have used is made up.
Thank God all worlds used by the hooligans who speak English are entirely of "English" origin themselves. Anyone fancy some whiskey? That said, you might want to have an auld goosey gander over to your local google internet search page and type in, "non english words in english."0 -
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And on a more light hearted note, I will say that its really funny how there are so many makey uppy words in Irish,
Do you mean like the English words "Television" a makey uppy mix of Latin and Greek and "Megabyte" from Greek and a makey uppy spelling of "Bite" to avoid confusion with "Bit", or borrowed words like "bungalow" from a Hindustani word for a type of small house, or words like "Guitar" derived originally from Persian.
Do you find the absolutly enormous number of "makey uppy" words in English (many many more than Irish) funny and if not, why?
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Oasis_Dublin wrote: »Powerful argument here. Someone who doesn't care whether or not the language goes under or not, who and doesn't have a decent grasp of it, can't understand the tennis commentators on TG4 and thus assumes the vocab they have used is made up.
Thank God all worlds used by the hooligans who speak English are entirely of "English" origin themselves. Anyone fancy some whiskey? That said, you might want to have an auld goosey gander over to your local google internet search page and type in, "non english words in english."
How do you know what my level of Irish is, the only thing I said was that I have difficulty with understanding Donegal Irish.
The point about the words was that it was the commentators themselves made the words up, they don't come in into usage organically like in english,that was only a small point, I'm fairly sure that the preceding line went more something like this..... On a lighter note
I love the way ye edited out that part ladies!!
lol
ye still haven't made any decent rebuttal to what I argued.
Back to the drawing board. this time, try thinking before typing. Less emotion, try taking a more holistic approach to the issue.0 -
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A secondary factor, but still relevant, is the fact that we all type the word Irish here as if its all the one, but in reality there are different dialects (is that the right term?) I have an aunt in Donegal and I can't understand her English half the time. I've heard her speaking Irish, and don't get a word of it.
I'm not disagreeing at all here, I'm just interested to know what exactly you mean about the dialects? If you couldn't understand her half the time in English does that not indicate that there are different dialects in English too, even though we treat that as the one language too?And on a more light hearted note, I will say that its really funny how there are so many makey uppy words in Irish, I watched some tennis on TG4 before and I'm fairly certain that the commentators made up the tennis vocab themselves. brilliant
I didn't actually interpret this as in any way disparaging of Irish, but you might be interested to know that I remember shortly after TG4 secured the rights to Wimbledon the Pat Kenny show on Radio 1 interviewed one of the sports presenters and this very question came up. There had been no pre-existing terminology for tennis in Irish (naturally enough) so it was necessary to 'make up' some. This wasn't just done, however, by adding a fada to every other i in the English words but rather they borrowed a lot of pre-existing terms in Irish for moves in card games (which is covered by a vast vocabulary) and adapted them to tennis. This is where pointe na cinniúna (match point) comes from, for example, if memory serves me. It was very interesting altogether how they did it.0 -
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