Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Is Irish a dead language?

Options
1…1112141617…131

Comments

  • Options
    #392
    Wolfe Tone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭Wolfe Tone


    donegalfella wrote: »
    This post has been deleted.
    Would be much less no doubt. Is there need these days for these to be physically published? In any language?


  • Options
    #393
    onemorechance
    Registered Users Posts: 3,078 ✭✭✭onemorechance


    eddyc wrote: »
    By that logic Austria, Belgium, Switzerland and countless other countries aren't very individual or unique.

    In terms of their language, no Austria is not unique. Belgium is in that they speak Flanders in the northern half of the country and Switzerland is multilingual.


  • Options
    #394
    Permabear
    Closed Accounts Posts: 39,022 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


  • Options
    #395
    Focalbhach
    Registered Users Posts: 459 ✭✭Focalbhach


    donegalfella wrote: »
    This post has been deleted.

    You're conflating two separate issues there. Not wanting to use it is very different to not being able to use it - whether that inability is due to lack of opportunity, lack of confidence, lack of knowledge, or whatever.


  • Options
    #396
    20goto10
    Registered Users Posts: 1,210 ✭✭✭20goto10


    eddyc wrote: »
    Can't we just get over the national inferiority complex?
    Ireland has a highly positive identity in the world, I would almost compare Irelands image in the world to Apple computers, the reality isn't as good as the marketing of course but my some of my German friends think Ireland is a magical place, great for hiking etc.
    It's not all about being Oirish and promoting Oirishness. It's about improving the country. To me its about being self sufficient and bringing us on a par with the rest of Europe without having to rely on handouts. We can use our language as a tool to help achieve that. Imagine what Germany would be like if their language was half dead and no-one gave a sh!te.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #397
    Iwasfrozen
    Registered Users Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    20goto10 wrote: »
    It's not all about being Oirish and promoting Oirishness. It's about improving the country. To me its about being self sufficient and bringing us on a par with the rest of Europe without having to rely on handouts. We can use our language as a tool to help achieve that. Imagine what Germany would be like if their language was half dead and no-one gave a sh!te.
    I imagine no-one would give a sh!te.


  • Options
    #398
    oscarBravo
    Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 28,798 Mod ✭✭✭✭oscarBravo


    20goto10 wrote: »
    We can use our language as a tool to help achieve that.
    How?


  • Options
    #399
    dochas
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4 ✭dochas


    I've been following this thread for a few days now and I've tried to understand both sides of the argument here. Irish is something I hold very very close to my heart. I'm going to look at this from a young person in universitys persepctive. I can honestly say it is not a dying language, especially amongst young people. Take a look in any lecture hall holding an Irish lecture in any university in Ireland and you'll see full lecture halls. Many universities have cumann gaelachs (irish societies/clubs) which have hundreds of members. In my own university UCC there is an Ionad na Gaeilge Labhartha (centre for spoken Irish) which provides voluntary language courses to nearly 2,000 people annually. Our Student's Union has an Irish Officer to promote the Irish language and is voted directly by the students. To say Irish is a dying language is a bit ludicrous many people still make the effort and enjoy speaking Irish. What I will agree with is the Government spend way too much money on translating documents. As said previously in this thread documents as Gaeilge should be provided on request.


  • Options
    #400
    oscarBravo
    Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 28,798 Mod ✭✭✭✭oscarBravo


    dochas wrote: »
    What I will agree with is the Government spend way too much money on translating documents. As said previously in this thread documents as Gaeilge should be provided on request.
    Hm. Do you think it's OK for the government to spend €30,000 translating a document, if they get a single request for it as Gaeilge?


  • Options
    #401
    Wolfe Tone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭Wolfe Tone


    oscarBravo wrote: »
    Hm. Do you think it's OK for the government to spend €30,000 translating a document, if they get a single request for it as Gaeilge?
    Yes, that is the single biggest waste of govt money ever.


    Why bother printing any? Why not have it online? Because some don't want to use the internet? Some don't want to read it in English.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #402
    oscarBravo
    Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 28,798 Mod ✭✭✭✭oscarBravo


    MUSSOLINI wrote: »
    Yes, that is the single biggest waste of govt money ever.
    So it's OK to waste money, because more money has been wasted in other ways?
    Why bother printing any? Why not have it online?
    That's not a printing cost, that's a translation cost.


  • Options
    #403
    20goto10
    Registered Users Posts: 1,210 ✭✭✭20goto10


    oscarBravo wrote: »
    How?
    go to any country that speaks its own language and you'll see that it comes hand in hand with a self sufficient economy. Irish products for Irish speaking people. We'll still have English and the advantages of being an English speaking nation. But whats wrong with being bi-lingual? you don't have to go learn it if you don't want to but I would argue that your children should have to. Maybe making all schools Gaelscoileanna may be going a bit too far, but certainly every child should be fluent when leaving primary school. It's a simple task of improving our education system. Our children already have to learn Irish, why not do it properly?


  • Options
    #404
    20goto10
    Registered Users Posts: 1,210 ✭✭✭20goto10


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    I imagine no-one would give a sh!te.
    My point is there's no way it would be the self sufficient, highly efficient economy we see today.


  • Options
    #405
    Wolfe Tone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭Wolfe Tone


    oscarBravo wrote: »
    So it's OK to waste money, because more money has been wasted in other ways? That's not a printing cost, that's a translation cost.
    Its not a waste of money. If someone wants an official document in the states first language then they should have it.


  • Options
    #406
    20goto10
    Registered Users Posts: 1,210 ✭✭✭20goto10


    oscarBravo wrote: »
    Hm. Do you think it's OK for the government to spend €30,000 translating a document, if they get a single request for it as Gaeilge?
    We shouldn't be translating. If you want to read a document that is produced in English then go read the English document. What we should be doing is producing our own documents in Irish.


  • Options
    #407
    CoalBucket
    Closed Accounts Posts: 971 ✭✭✭CoalBucket


    donegalfella wrote: »
    This post has been deleted.

    Alternatively write them in Irish in the first place and see how many people will pay for the english translation.


  • Options
    #408
    oscarBravo
    Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 28,798 Mod ✭✭✭✭oscarBravo


    20goto10 wrote: »
    We shouldn't be translating. If you want to read a document that is produced in English then go read the English document. What we should be doing is producing our own documents in Irish.
    ...and paying thirty grand a pop to translate them into English, for the non-Irish speakers?


  • Options
    #409
    Iwasfrozen
    Registered Users Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    20goto10 wrote: »
    My point is there's no way it would be the self sufficient, highly efficient economy we see today.
    I doubt it.

    America speaks english and is a self sufficient, highly efficient economy.

    Russia speaks its own language and they are far from being a self sufficient, highly efficient economy.


  • Options
    #410
    CoalBucket
    Closed Accounts Posts: 971 ✭✭✭CoalBucket


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    I doubt it.

    America speaks english and is a self sufficient, highly efficient economy.

    Russia speaks its own language and they are far from being a self sufficient, highly efficient economy.

    Ireland speaks english and we are far from being a self sufficient, highly efficient economy.


  • Options
    #411
    Iwasfrozen
    Registered Users Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    CoalBucket wrote: »
    Ireland speaks english and we are far from being a self sufficient, highly efficient economy.
    Exactly which proves a self sufficient, highly efficient economy language doeth not make.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #412
    dochas
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4 ✭dochas


    oscarBravo wrote: »
    Hm. Do you think it's OK for the government to spend €30,000 translating a document, if they get a single request for it as Gaeilge?

    No I don't think it's ok the government actually need to take a proper look at who they are getting to translate these documents because surely it need not be that expensive. There are lots of centres where these documents can be translated and maybe the government are just looking at the most expensive option.


  • Options
    #413
    CoalBucket
    Closed Accounts Posts: 971 ✭✭✭CoalBucket


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    Exactly which proves a self sufficient, highly efficient economy language doeth not make.

    I agree, language has nothing to do with self sufficency or a highly efficient economy


  • Options
    #414
    sensibleken
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,650 ✭✭✭sensibleken


    donegalfella wrote: »
    This post has been deleted.


    and translating them is a job for which you need Irish. See, jobs created, everyone happy. Buiochas le Dia. :)


  • Options
    #415
    Focalbhach
    Registered Users Posts: 459 ✭✭Focalbhach


    oscarBravo wrote: »
    Do you think it's OK for the government to spend €30,000 translating a document...?
    oscarBravo wrote: »
    ...and paying thirty grand a pop to translate them into English, for the non-Irish speakers?

    As a point of fact, the figure you're using is incorrect. The Irish Times report (where I assume you're getting the €30,000 figure from) states that €30,000 was spent on three documents, over four years.

    All else being equal, that's €10,000 per document or €7,500 per year on translation. Take your pick.

    Of course, the translator may have had other duties as part of their salary included in those figures, but we don't know either way. Regardless, those are the appropriate figures to use if you're talking about the cost of translating a document or employing a translator.


  • Options
    #416
    SkepticOne
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,718 ✭✭✭SkepticOne


    Leto wrote: »
    As a point of fact, the figure you're using is incorrect. The Irish Times report (where I assume you're getting the €30,000 figure from) states that €30,000 was spent on three documents, over four years.
    Excellent value!


  • Options
    #417
    oscarBravo
    Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 28,798 Mod ✭✭✭✭oscarBravo


    Leto wrote: »
    All else being equal, that's €10,000 per document or €7,500 per year on translation. Take your pick.
    Accepted. I'll take €10,000 per document, so.


  • Options
    #418
    20goto10
    Registered Users Posts: 1,210 ✭✭✭20goto10


    CoalBucket wrote: »
    I agree, language has nothing to do with self sufficency or a highly efficient economy

    It would in Irelands case. We have strong exports already but our imports are way too high. The Irish language economy would lessen our imports as well as generating jobs.


  • Options
    #419
    P. Breathnach
    Registered Users Posts: 12,089 ✭✭✭✭P. Breathnach


    dochas wrote: »
    No I don't think it's ok the government actually need to take a proper look at who they are getting to translate these documents because surely it need not be that expensive. There are lots of centres where these documents can be translated and maybe the government are just looking at the most expensive option.

    There is a relative scarcity of translators, especially for material with technical content, and they don't come cheap.


  • Options
    #420
    SkepticOne
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,718 ✭✭✭SkepticOne


    20goto10 wrote: »
    go to any country that speaks its own language and you'll see that it comes hand in hand with a self sufficient economy.
    How do you define "its own language"? For example, Austrians speak German. Are they speaking their own language or someone else's? If they are speaking someone else's, what is the language they should be speaking?


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #421
    SkepticOne
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,718 ✭✭✭SkepticOne


    dochas wrote: »
    I can honestly say it is not a dying language, especially amongst young people. Take a look in any lecture hall holding an Irish lecture in any university in Ireland and you'll see full lecture halls. Many universities have cumann gaelachs (irish societies/clubs) which have hundreds of members. In my own university UCC there is an Ionad na Gaeilge Labhartha (centre for spoken Irish) which provides voluntary language courses to nearly 2,000 people annually. Our Student's Union has an Irish Officer to promote the Irish language and is voted directly by the students. To say Irish is a dying language is a bit ludicrous many people still make the effort and enjoy speaking Irish.
    But the interesting thing about these examples is that they're all institutional uses of the language.

    What people want to know when they ask if Irish is a living language is whether there are places you can go where it is the predominant language for day-to-day practical communications.

    I think the answer to this is that in most of the country Irish is dead. It is true many people have knowledge of the language but that is different to it being a living language. Some of these people may even be fluent and may meet with others to use the language socially, but this is not really a living language.

    I used the example of Latin earlier in the thread. Latin is a dead language but it was once widely known among the educated classes of Europe. It was the language of discourse for science, theology and other subjects. Knowledge of the language and the fact that lectures were conducted in it (like your lectures in Galway) did not stop it from being a dead language. What made it a dead language was the fact that it was not used by ordinary people in day-to-day situations. For the most part that is also the situation in Ireland with Irish.


This discussion has been closed.
Advertisement