Is Irish a dead language?

astrofool · 26-07-2010 10:03am

To be fair to IWasFrozen, if someone in real life actually spoke like that, they would usually be classed as a pretentious git, and suitably ignored.

Same as people who come back from a holiday to Barthelona.

Permabear · 26-07-2010 10:24am

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deise go deo · 26-07-2010 11:14am

Our country is also known as Éire, I see no need to change that so as to cater to the linguistic fixations of a few people with a chip on their shoulder.

Permabear · 26-07-2010 11:25am

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P. Breathnach · 26-07-2010 11:38am

We have a small constitutional oddity: the proper name of the state is Éire in every language except English.

[Article 4 of the constitution: "The name of the State is [I]Éire[/I], or, in the English language, [I]Ireland[/I]."]

Kev_ps3 · 26-07-2010 11:46am

Who cares? That one of the things that is wrong with this country, we care too much what foreigners think.. Let them be confused.

Permabear · 26-07-2010 11:51am

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P. Breathnach · 26-07-2010 11:53am

I care. On a personal level, when I travel outside the country I find it generally advantageous to let it be known that I am Irish. Our people are well-regarded in many places; in some other places, the advantage is that we might not have the baggage that people from certain English-speaking countries have.

dlofnep · 26-07-2010 11:56am

Nonsense. More people outside of Ireland use the term Éire more than we even do. Infact, just 2 seconds before I posted this my friend from New York just asked me on facebook "How's Eire?"

On a personal note, I rarely refer to it as Éire in English. But to suggest that people can't call it so, without affecting trade or investment is out of whack.

deise go deo · 26-07-2010 11:59am

No one is ridiculing you for your choice not to use Irish placenames, or refere to Ireland as Éire, thats your choice and I am fine with that, so why are you hostile to people who do choose to use the Irish version of a placename?

And yes someone in california probibly wont have heard of the term Éire, They probably havent heard of athlone either, what will we call that?

dlofnep · 26-07-2010 12:10pm

San Bernadino.

Permabear · 26-07-2010 12:17pm

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deise go deo · 26-07-2010 12:27pm

While I acknowledge the fact I dont think its a very good argument against people here chooseing to refer to Ireland as Éire, so what if they do, how dose that affect you, Why are you so hostile to it

caseyann · 26-07-2010 12:29pm

I do it to enlighten them

p.s impressed by your correct spelling of the proper names of those countries.

Permabear · 26-07-2010 12:34pm

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deise go deo · 26-07-2010 12:42pm

Ah so thats what you were on about, I got the impression that you were suggesting that ordinary people refering to Ireland as Éire would affect the economy.

I think that what they said that the BBC do already refer to Ireland as Éire from time to time, not that they should.

So just to clarify you dont have a problem with ordinary people refering to Ireland as Éire if they want to?

Permabear · 26-07-2010 1:08pm

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deise go deo · 26-07-2010 1:15pm

Well I never suggested that we insist on calling Ireland, Éire.
However I wouldent worry about confuseing people in america, some of them cant even point to America on a map:rolleyes:

tolosenc · 26-07-2010 1:51pm

I think you misunderstood me there...

dlofnep · 26-07-2010 3:03pm

rofl @ the hysteria.

I suppose España creates "create gratuitous confusion" for the Spanish government. Or Cymru creates confusion for the Welsh government.

Nobody is putting forward the claim to be known only as Éire, and indeed nobody I know uses it in the English language. The original argument was with a poster who claimed that they would walk away from someone who uttered an Irish word in a conversation with them. Let's try keep it in context.

Permabear · 26-07-2010 3:35pm

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sensibleken · 26-07-2010 3:52pm

I actually recently had a discussion with someone, and they weren't the first person to argue this, that they found it extremely offensive when English people called Ireland Éire. Despite the constitution, stamps, coinage etc.

I think Irish would be more popular if we actually learned useful phrases instead of mindlessly conjugating verbs like idiots. such as..

Go raibh grainneóg a chead chac eile agat

Dionysus · 26-07-2010 4:15pm

Which makes perfect sense given that when English people use the word "Eire" they use it to mean the part of Éire which is independent from their government. They do not see that Ireland is merely the English translation of Éire and, as such, Belfast, Ireland is the English for Béal Feirste, Éire. In short, they use "Eire" in a manner which supports their politics rather than which reflects the basic Éire=Ireland fact.

As for the Constitution: referring to Ireland as 'Éire' when speaking/writing English is, despite your claim to the contrary, unconstitutional. I think it was Dessie Ellis who was, many years ago, not extradited specifically because the Supreme (High?) Court of Ireland ruled that they did not recognise the name of the state as Éire because the document was written in English. This was definitely a ruling in some extradition case.

sensibleken · 26-07-2010 4:26pm

I didn't claim that. I was saying article 4 states the name of the state as Eire or in the english language Ireland. It also says Eire on stamps and coinage. So i can understand English people getting stroppy if someone says its offensive when its called that on our coinage and stamps.

There are some Irish people who think the English are out to get them and anything they say is a dig. Ive never heard an English person refer to Eire in a political fashion

deise go deo · 26-07-2010 4:36pm

Some people really need to lighten up:rolleyes:

dlofnep · 26-07-2010 5:30pm

:rolleyes:

I wasn't twisting any words. The context for the discussion was a poster getting upset with people who opted to use Irish words here and there in conversation. This somehow on your behalf turned into an argument between the use of Éire and it somehow affecting our trade agreements. Nobody anywhere was stipulating that we use Éire by default.

What do you want, me to provide you with a study on the percentage of the population that use Éire outside of Ireland? I'm sure that would make a marvelous basis for a thesis. I never hear the term Éire here in Ireland, except when speaking in Irish. However, I often here it used by Americans, and even the English. But to be honest - I've no idea why we're even debating such a minuscule issue. You missed the point completely.

I don't speak Spanish, and I've no hangups on whether people use Spain or Espana. In the same respect, I never made the case that everyone knows a country by it's indigenous name.

So allow me to summarise this whole fiasco of what's going on. Between people getting uppity because someone might use an Irish phrase in a sentence, and people who start harping on about trade agreements when even the mere mention of Éire is uttered - I'd say we're well and truly beyond having a reasonable discussion.

Iwasfrozen · 26-07-2010 6:07pm

I never said I got upset. I claimed that gaelgeoirs who use irish place names when speaking english are pompous, self-important and politically motivated. I see no other reason why one would use the irish name when there is a perfectly good english name. Hyperbole doesn't futher any discussion.

deise go deo · 26-07-2010 6:14pm

There you go again, What political motivation? Iv asked you before and im asking you again.

Why cant you accept that some people may have an attachment to an Irish placename as gaeilge and prefer to use it to its English version?

Valmont · 26-07-2010 6:48pm

I lived in the United States for nine months and I never heard anyone refer to Ireland as Eire; heck, I even met a few people who hadn't heard of the term Ireland.

Iwasfrozen · 26-07-2010 7:11pm

A person choosing to use the translated version of a place name is obviously politically motivated in favour of the irish language.

I can accept it. I have no problem accepting it. However these people are likely to be a gaelgeoir/nationalist/GAA lunatic etc. Someone that I most likely won't get on with as our political/recreational views are too different.

Now I've answered your question, perhaps you could answer mine. What attachment could a person have to an irish language placename?

Is Irish a dead language?

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