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Is Irish a dead language?

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    #752
    sensibleken
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,650 ✭✭✭sensibleken


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    A person choosing to use the translated version of a place name is obviously politically motivated in favour of the irish language. That much is obvious.


    I can accept it. I have no problem accepting it. However these people are likely to be a gaelgeoir/nationalist/GAA lunatic etc. Someone that I most likely won't get on with as our political/recreational views are too different.



    isnt that linguistically motivated more than political? Just because someone speaks Irish does not mean they like GAA or are a lunatic. I for example hate GAA. Stereotypes are hard.


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    #753
    Iwasfrozen
    Registered Users Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    sensibleken wrote: »
    isnt that linguistically motivated more than political? Just because someone speaks Irish does not mean they like GAA or are a lunatic. I for example hate GAA. Stereotypes are hard.
    I said likely. That doesn't mean everyone who uses irish place names is a gaelgeoir/nationalist/GAA lunatic. Just that they are likely to be, and I'd rather not take the chance.


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    #754
    Wolfe Tone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭Wolfe Tone


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    I said likely. That doesn't mean everyone who uses irish place names is a gaelgeoir/nationalist/GAA lunatic. Just that they are likely to be, and I'd rather not take the chance.
    The same way you might think that arabs are terrorists?


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    #755
    Iwasfrozen
    Registered Users Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    MUSSOLINI wrote: »
    The same way you might think that arabs are terrorists?
    No, because arabs are not likely to be terrorists.


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    #756
    Wolfe Tone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭Wolfe Tone


    Taking a leaf out of your booK:
    Just that they are likely to be, and I'd rather not take the chance.

    I need facts and figures.
    How can you make such sweeping claims with no proof?


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    #757
    deise go deo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,677 ✭✭✭deise go deo


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    A person choosing to use the translated version of a place name is obviously politically motivated in favour of the irish language.

    Whats likeing the Irish language got to do with politics?
    I can accept it. I have no problem accepting it. However these people are likely to be a gaelgeoir/nationalist/GAA lunatic etc. Someone that I most likely won't get on with as our political/recreational views are too different.

    Now I've answered your question, perhaps you could answer mine. What attachment could a person have to an irish language placename?


    I like the GAA, Dose that make me a lunatic? Just because someones views arent the same as yours is no reason to be abusive.

    Perhaps they appreciate the meaning of the name, Perhaps they like the place and that was the first name someone there used for it.
    Perhaps they are from there and their parents used the name.
    I have an attachment to the Déise.


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    #758
    Iwasfrozen
    Registered Users Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    MUSSOLINI wrote: »
    I need facts and figures.
    How can you make such sweeping claims with no proof?
    You don't need figures when you can come to a conclusion logically. :)


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    #759
    Wolfe Tone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭Wolfe Tone


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    You don't need figures when you can come to a conclusion logically. :)
    I dispute your logic. Back up your claims. You called me up pedantically, I am returning the favor.


    I feel that the majority of people who use Irish place names simply do so without attaching any meaning to it. It is simply a name. It just feels natural.


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    #760
    deise go deo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,677 ✭✭✭deise go deo


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    You don't need figures when you can come to a conclusion logically. :)


    To come to a conclusion in the absence of evidence is not logical:p


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    #761
    Iwasfrozen
    Registered Users Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    deise go deo wrote: »
    Whats likeing the Irish language got to do with politics?
    Likeing the language means the person is probably politically motivated in favour of the irish language. Favouring mandatory irish in school, document translation and tax money paid to organisations such as tg4 and foinse. All of which I'm against.
    deise go deo wrote: »
    I like the GAA, Dose that make me a lunatic? Just because someones views arent the same as yours is no reason to be abusive.
    That depends on how much you like the GAA. If you like it so much that you begin to use irish place names well...
    deise go deo wrote: »
    Perhaps they appreciate the meaning of the name,
    What meaning?
    deise go deo wrote: »
    Perhaps they like the place and that was the first name someone there used for it.
    Irish wasn't the first language spoken in this country.


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    #762
    dlofnep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,759 ✭✭✭✭dlofnep


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    I never said I got upset. I claimed that gaelgeoirs who use irish place names when speaking english are pompous, self-important and politically motivated. I see no other reason why one would use the irish name when there is a perfectly good english name. Hyperbole doesn't futher any discussion.

    LOL @ being pompous because they might throw in an occasional irish word.

    This hysteria on this thread is hilarious. A person does not have to be politically motivated to use the Irish language. Repeating it does not make it true either.


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    #763
    dlofnep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,759 ✭✭✭✭dlofnep


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    That depends on how much you like the GAA. If you like it so much that you begin to use irish place names well...

    Jesus christ. So liking the GAA makes someone a lunatic now, does it? LOL... It appears to me that you have a huge chip on your shoulder in relation to anything remotely attached to Irish culture - be it the language, sport or place-names.
    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    Irish wasn't the first language spoken in this country.

    Neither was English. But that's here nor there, and hardly relevant to any bollocks you're trying to convey.


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    #764
    Iwasfrozen
    Registered Users Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    dlofnep wrote: »
    LOL @ being pompous because they might throw in an occasional irish word.

    This hysteria on this thread is hilarious. A person does not have to be politically motivated to use the Irish language. Repeating it does not make it true either.
    I disagree.

    If a person chooses to use the irish language version of a place name above the english language version then that person is obviously politically motivated in favour of the irish language. How you can't see this is beyond me.


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    #765
    Wolfe Tone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭Wolfe Tone


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    I disagree.

    If a person chooses to use the irish language version of a place name above the english language version then that person is obviously politically motivated in favour of the irish language. How you can't see this is beyond me.
    I do not agree, but however:

    you are so set against the language that you would refuse to speak with that person?


    That is one massive chip.


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    #766
    Iwasfrozen
    Registered Users Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    dlofnep wrote: »
    Jesus christ. So liking the GAA makes someone a lunatic now, does it? LOL... It appears to me that you have a huge chip on your shoulder in relation to anything remotely attached to Irish culture - be it the language, sport or place-names.
    Perhaps you should read my previous posts before replying? I believe I already said this:
    Iwasfrozen wrote:
    That depends on how much you like the GAA. If you like it so much that you begin to use irish place names well...
    Never did I say everybody who likes the GAA is a lunatic.
    dlofnep wrote: »
    Neither was English. But that's here nor there, and hardly relevant to any bollocks you're trying to convey.
    Again, you don't read my posts. I was replying to a poster who claimed this:
    deise go deo wrote:
    Perhaps they like the place and that was the first name someone there used for it.
    I countered that by saying the irish language was not the first language used in this country.


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    #767
    dlofnep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,759 ✭✭✭✭dlofnep


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    I disagree.

    If a person chooses to use the irish language version of a place name above the english language version then that person is obviously politically motivated in favour of the irish language. How you can't see this is beyond me.

    Or, they might be just an Irish language speaker?

    And what does "politically motivated" in favour of the Irish language mean? Could it not be that they are just enthusiastic, and couldn't give a bollocks about the politics of anything in the background?

    Look - if you want to judge people based on the language that they use - I'd say that makes you xenophobic.


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    #768
    dlofnep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,759 ✭✭✭✭dlofnep


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    Never did I say everybody who likes the GAA is a lunatic.

    No, but you did lump GAA fans and Irish language enthusiasts into a lunatic basket. A person can be a fan of GAA, and an Irish language enthusiast without being a lunatic. Your consistent attempts to attack the character of those who speak the language, or who are a fan of the GAA (Which I am not, for the record) - is pretty low, and a weak basis for an argument.


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    #769
    Iwasfrozen
    Registered Users Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    MUSSOLINI wrote: »
    you are so set against the language that you would refuse to speak with that person?
    You don't read previous posts either! I already replyed to this:
    Iwasfrozen wrote:
    Oh for God's sake I was exaggerating when I said that. As I've said before it's not really an issue because I've never met a person who uses irish place names but if I did I wouldn't physically walk away from the person but I would keep my distance in future. Mindful that they are politically motivated and we probably won't get on.


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    #770
    Wolfe Tone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭Wolfe Tone


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    You don't read previous posts either! I already replyed to this:
    Exactly you are exaggerating on all fronts and being daft. You have no proof at all for what you are saying. Sweeping generalizations all the way.


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    #771
    cyclopath2001
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,359 ✭✭✭cyclopath2001


    dlofnep wrote: »
    Or, they might be just an Irish language speaker?
    Or someone, not originally a speaker of Irish, who has rejected their English-language heritage and has selected for him or herself an alternative ethnic identity and language.

    Quite why this might happen is an interesting topic.


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    #772
    deise go deo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,677 ✭✭✭deise go deo


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    Likeing the language means the person is probably politically motivated in favour of the irish language. Favouring mandatory irish in school, document translation and tax money paid to organisations such as tg4 and foinse. All of which I'm against.

    Many people who like Irish dont want to keep Irish manditory, Fine Gael for example. As for the rest,Tax is spent on lots of things, Some increadibly stupid things, I dont think it would take you long to find something worse than providing a newspaper for Irish speakers.

    That depends on how much you like the GAA. If you like it so much that you begin to use irish place names well...

    Well I like it alot, I think it is very entertaing.
    I even own a hurley, I guess theres no hope for me:rolleyes:

    What meaning?

    Carrick on Suir,
    Carrige na Suire - The rock in the suir.

    Waterford,
    Déise - Relats to the Déisí tribe that lived in the Waterford region

    Kilmacthomas
    Choill mhic Thomasín - The forrest of the son of thomas
    Most irish placenames have a meaning
    Irish wasn't the first language spoken in this country.

    Closer than English though. Not what I ment anyway. I ment someone goeing to a town, likeing it, asking someone the name of the town, being told the Irish name for tha town and them assosiating the Irish name with the toun in their minds from then on. Like me with Bhaile na nGall in Gaeltacht na Rinne


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    #773
    Iwasfrozen
    Registered Users Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    dlofnep wrote: »
    Or, they might be just an Irish language speaker?
    Who, if they wee speaking to me, would be speaking in english. In which case there is no need to use irish language place names.
    dlofnep wrote: »
    And what does "politically motivated" in favour of the Irish language mean? Could it not be that they are just enthusiastic, and couldn't give a bollocks about the politics of anything in the background?
    If they are only enthusiastic about it for themselves then yes, it is possible. Unlikely, but possible.
    dlofnep wrote: »
    Look - if you want to judge people based on the language that they use - I'd say that makes you xenophobic.
    I'd say you're very fond of throwing names about.


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    #774
    Iwasfrozen
    Registered Users Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    MUSSOLINI wrote: »
    Exactly you are exaggerating on all fronts and being daft. You have no proof at all for what you are saying. Sweeping generalizations all the way.
    I don't think this warrents a reply. Oh wait, I just did. :rolleyes:


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    #775
    deise go deo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,677 ✭✭✭deise go deo


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    I disagree.

    If a person chooses to use the irish language version of a place name above the english language version then that person is obviously politically motivated in favour of the irish language. How you can't see this is beyond me.


    So then someone who uses an English placename above the Irish version is politically motivated in favour of the English language?

    I think your reading too much into it mate:rolleyes:


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    #776
    Iwasfrozen
    Registered Users Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    deise go deo wrote: »
    Many people who like Irish dont want to keep Irish manditory, Fine Gael for example. As for the rest,Tax is spent on lots of things, Some increadibly stupid things, I dont think it would take you long to find something worse than providing a newspaper for Irish speakers.
    Yes, but I'm against both the silly things and providing a paper for bilingual irish speakers. What you're saying amounts to "yes spending on irish is silly but it should continue because money is being spent on even sillier things.
    deise go deo wrote: »
    Carrick on Suir,
    Carrige na Suire - The rock in the suir.

    Waterford,
    Déise - Relats to the Déisí tribe that lived in the Waterford region

    Kilmacthomas
    Choill mhic Thomasín - The forrest of the son of thomas
    Most irish placenames have a meaning
    I knew that but their english counterparts carry on that meaning. It's not an argument to say only the irish language versions carry meaning. Why anyone would identify with this is beyond me though.
    deise go deo wrote: »
    Closer than English though. Not what I ment anyway. I ment someone goeing to a town, likeing it, asking someone the name of the town, being told the Irish name for tha town and them assosiating the Irish name with the toun in their minds from then on.
    Who would ever do that? The town would be signposted anyway.
    deise go deo wrote: »
    Like me with Bhaile na nGall in Gaeltacht na Rinne
    I don't think they would be very happy if I began to angloise their town name.


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    #777
    dlofnep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,759 ✭✭✭✭dlofnep


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    Who, if they wee speaking to me, would be speaking in english. In which case there is no need to use irish language place names.

    They can use whatever they like. I don't see how it's going to affect your life. If someone says slán to you heading off for the night and it offends you, you need to re-assess your station in life.
    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    If they are only enthusiastic about it for themselves then yes, it is possible. Unlikely, but possible.

    :rolleyes:
    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    I'd say you're very fond of throwing names about.

    I wasn't throwing names around. I see you didn't actually dispute it. Your posts demonstrate xenophobia. Do you dispute this?


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    #778
    Iwasfrozen
    Registered Users Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    dlofnep wrote: »
    They can use whatever they like. I don't see how it's going to affect your life. If someone says slán to you heading off for the night and it offends you, you need to re-assess your station in life.
    Agreed, but that wouldn't offend me.
    :rolleyes:
    :rolleyes::rolleyes:
    dlofnep wrote: »
    I wasn't throwing names around. I see you didn't actually dispute it. Your posts demonstrate xenophobia. Do you dispute this?
    It don't care enough to dispute other peoples perceptions of me.


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    #779
    deise go deo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,677 ✭✭✭deise go deo


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    Yes, but I'm against both the silly things and providing a paper for bilingual irish speakers. What you're saying amounts to "yes spending on irish is silly but it should continue because money is being spent on even sillier things.

    No I was makeing the point that you are focusing unfairly on the Irish language, I dont thing that thei is a silly waste of money.
    I knew that but their english counterparts carry on that meaning. It's not an argument to say only the irish language versions carry meaning. Why anyone would identify with this is beyond me though.

    No they dont, the word Kilmacthomas dosent suggest any kind of conection to a forest. If they carry any meaning then one would have to know the Irish meaning first.
    Who would ever do that? The town would be signposted anyway.

    AS I said me.
    I don't think they would be very happy if I began to angloise their town name.

    Well I dont think there is an English translation for Bhaile na ngall but a vilige gust up the road from it Seanphobail. Is often refered to by its english name Old Parish. I have never heard anyone complain about anyone doing this, I certainaly dont see any political motivation for it.


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    #780
    cyclopath2001
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,359 ✭✭✭cyclopath2001


    deise go deo wrote: »
    So then someone who uses an English placename above the Irish version is politically motivated in favour of the English language?
    I never used the word 'politics', so I have no idea how you arrive at that conclusion.

    The issue is why people whose original language is English, decide to adopt Irish.


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    #781
    P. Breathnach
    Registered Users Posts: 12,089 ✭✭✭✭P. Breathnach


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    A person choosing to use the translated version of a place name is obviously politically motivated in favour of the irish language....

    You have a poor sense of direction. Almost all translated versions of placenames in Ireland are translations from the Irish. A handful of Irish placenames are Scandinavian in origin, and some recent creations started off in English, mainly thanks to developers.


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