Is Irish a dead language?

Enkidu

donegalfella wrote: »

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Ah, I had misunderstood what you are saying. As you say literature is more contentious and is perhaps a better measure of a repressive society.

I also agree with the second paragraph, but unfortunately I think it may even be worse. I fear that even if we did take time away from Irish that mathematics would not really improve. I think this may be due to the very time intensive mental requirments of the subject becoming more "boring" to those used to instant knowledge in the West. Also I question a curriculum that essentially has not changed in the West for 150 years. Perhaps I'm wrong though.

Regardless thank you for taking the time to clear up my misunderstandings.

Permabear

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oscarBravo

deise go deo wrote: »

Do you think it would make any difference to the average tourist if a place uses An Irish version of the place name?

If I was giving my girlfriend directions to (say) Clonbur, I'd have to explain to her that at some point she would stop seeing signposts with "Clonbur" on them, and only see "An Fhairce" - a placename she can't pronounce, and can't parse to that spelling when I pronounce it. Similarly "Béal an Muirthead" or "Gaoth Sáile" or "Gob an Choire".

So yes: I would say that changing the names of places on direction signs mid-route could be just a tad confusing for tourists (and non-Irish-speaking residents).

Iwasfrozen

Rebelheart wrote: »

It is, obviously, not. Try and get out of your little anglocentric cocoon (which you appear to be sharing with several posters here).

Chinese is the number one spoken language in the world in terms of number of native speakers. English however is the number one spoken language in the world in terms of total speakers.

Permabear

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P. Breathnach

oscarBravo wrote: »

If I was giving my girlfriend directions to (say) Clonbur, I'd have to explain to her that at some point she would stop seeing signposts with "Clonbur" on them, and only see "An Fhairce" - a placename she can't pronounce, and can't parse to that spelling when I pronounce it. Similarly "Béal an Muirthead" or "Gaoth Sáile" or "Gob an Choire"....

You need to change girlfriends. Get yourself an Irish speaker.

Focalbhach

P. Breathnach wrote: »

You need to change girlfriends. Get yourself an Irish speaker.

An Irish solution to an Irish-speaking problem...?

Enkidu

oscarBravo wrote: »

If I was giving my girlfriend directions to (say) Clonbur, I'd have to explain to her that at some point she would stop seeing signposts with "Clonbur" on them, and only see "An Fhairce" - a placename she can't pronounce, and can't parse to that spelling when I pronounce it. Similarly "Béal an Muirthead" or "Gaoth Sáile" or "Gob an Choire".

So yes: I would say that changing the names of places on direction signs mid-route could be just a tad confusing for tourists (and non-Irish-speaking residents).

I assume it would be alright if the signs used an Irish placename if the town/village was only known by its Irish name, i.e. it's the consistency of the road signs that is a problem.

sensibleken

oscarBravo wrote: »

If I was giving my girlfriend directions to (say) Clonbur, I'd have to explain to her that at some point she would stop seeing signposts with "Clonbur" on them, and only see "An Fhairce" - a placename she can't pronounce, and can't parse to that spelling when I pronounce it. Similarly "Béal an Muirthead" or "Gaoth Sáile" or "Gob an Choire".

So yes: I would say that changing the names of places on direction signs mid-route could be just a tad confusing for tourists (and non-Irish-speaking residents).

should we change Dun Laoighre back to kingstown for the benefit of those arriving on the ferry?

oscarBravo

sensibleken wrote: »

should we change Dun Laoighre back to kingstown for the benefit of those arriving on the ferry?

No. Why?

sensibleken

oscarBravo wrote: »

No. Why?

just wondering, a lot of non irish people find it impossible to pronounce.

(and yes i know you were talking about changing it mid route but i wasnt directing it solely at yourself)

Yag reuoY

79 pages and practically no Irish on show - you have to respect what Cromwell achieved.

sensibleken

Yag reuoY wrote: »

79 pages and practically no Irish on show - you have to respect what Cromwell achieved.

níl na duine anseo ag caint as gaeilge mar níl gach duine anseo abalta ag caint as gaelge. tá se mímhúinte.

agus tar eis cromwell labhair alán duinne gailge

LordSutch

Yag reuoY wrote: »

79 pages and practically no Irish on show - you have to respect what Cromwell achieved.

Never knew that Cromwell was anti the Irish lingo!

deise go deo

Yag reuoY wrote: »

79 pages and practically no Irish on show - you have to respect what Cromwell achieved.

English is the medium of this fourm. If you want to see Irish head over to
Teach na nGealt.:)

deise go deo

oscarBravo wrote: »

If I was giving my girlfriend directions to (say) Clonbur, I'd have to explain to her that at some point she would stop seeing signposts with "Clonbur" on them, and only see "An Fhairce" - a placename she can't pronounce, and can't parse to that spelling when I pronounce it. Similarly "Béal an Muirthead" or "Gaoth Sáile" or "Gob an Choire".

So yes: I would say that changing the names of places on direction signs mid-route could be just a tad confusing for tourists (and non-Irish-speaking residents).

I find the ammount of French and Italian on menues in restaruants to be a tad confusing.

Just tell her the Irish name and to look at tho top of the signs when shes going to these places, Continuity problem solved.:)

Iwasfrozen

deise go deo wrote: »

I find the ammount of French and Italian on menues in restaruants to be a tad confusing.

Just tell her the Irish name and to look at tho top of the signs when shes going to these places, Continuity problem solved.:)

Squinting to see the smaller font would be a tad dangerous while driving.

deise go deo

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Squinting to see the smaller font would be a tad dangerous while driving.

Its not that much smaller.
Anyway there is always P.Breathnach's solution:P

Iwasfrozen

deise go deo wrote: »

Its not that much smaller.
Anyway there is always P.Breathnach's solution:P

Lol, true.

SeanW

MysticalRain wrote: »

It's got nothing to do with bigotry. One language is printed in a bigger font because only a tiny fraction of the population actually understands the other one. Of course I'm sure you'll still believe there is some kind of English conspiracy going on regardless of the real reason behind it.

It's also the case that (personal observation) Irish language placenames are longer, sometimes by far, than their English counterparts.

Dublin
Baile Atha na Cliath

Mullingar
An Muillean gCear

Athlone
Baile Atha naLuan

Dingle
An Daingean or
Daingean I chuis.

Need I go on? It only makes sense to put the long drawn out rambling gaelic names in a smaller font.

deise go deo

SeanW wrote: »

It's also the case that (personal observation) Irish language placenames are longer, sometimes by far, than their English counterparts.

Dublin
Baile Atha na Cliath

Mullingar
An Muillean gCear

Athlone
Baile Atha naLuan

Dingle
An Daingean or
Daingean I chuis.

Need I go on? It only makes sense to put the long drawn out rambling gaelic names in a smaller font.

Sometimes, but Irish name is set to a smaller font wether it is long or not.

sometimes its the other way round eg

An Rinn
Ringville

LordSutch

Was at Dublin Airport recently & two English tourists asked me where they would get a bus bound for Dublin, I said that's it there, parked opposite with 'Baile Átha Cliath' on the front, to which they replied "we'd never have guessed, does that really mean Dublin in Gaelic"? to which I replied yes - kind of-ish, they smiled & we all got on board, nearing the city centre the driver then shouted 'Busaras' next stop, the English toursits turned to others sitting around & asked what does he mean by shouting that? and a woman said "the next stop is Busaras" they still looked puzzled & shrugged their shoulders, the woman said again very slowly 'its the busaras' speaking at them as if they were slow learners, so I eventually perked up and explained that it meant the 'Central Bus Station', they then thanked me & said that's a relief, as that's where they wanted to go . . . .

As they left the bus they said cheerio & thanks for the Gaelic lessons today

Just an observation really, I'd say the Baile Atha na Cliath, & Busaras catches out quite a lot of tourists from all over.

LordSutch

LordSutch wrote: »

Was at Dublin Airport recently & two English tourists asked me where they would get a bus bound for Dublin, I said that's it there, parked opposite with 'Baile Átha Cliath' on the front, to which they replied "we'd never have guessed, does that really mean Dublin in Gaelic"? to which I replied yes - kind of-ish, they smiled & we all got on board, nearing the city centre the driver then shouted 'Busaras' next stop, the English toursits turned to others sitting around & asked what does he mean by shouting that? and a woman said "the next stop is Busaras" they still looked puzzled & shrugged their shoulders, the woman said again very slowly 'its the busaras' speaking at them as if they were slow learners, so I eventually perked up and explained that it meant the 'Central Bus Station', they then thanked me & said that's a relief, as that's where they wanted to go . . . .

As they left the bus they said cheerio & thanks for the Gaelic lessons today

I know how she feels, getting the train in Italy to Munich, for some reason, it said Monaco, and then when we arrived, the station said Munchen, totally unfair to have to learn 3 names for the one place

LordSutch

Well in fairness, Munchen is much closer to Munich than Baile Atha Cliath is to Dublin.

I think what catches tourists out here is the fact that nobody speaks Irish, but then you get one or two Irish names or phrases (mentioned above) that take you by surprise "Baile Atha Cliath" which sounds nothing like "Dublin", being the prime example!

LordSutch

LordSutch wrote: »

Well in fairness, Munchen is much closer to Munich than Baile Atha Cliath is to Dublin.

I think what catches tourists out here is the fact that nobody speaks Irish, but then you get one or two Irish names or phrases (mentioned above) that take you by surprise "Baile Atha Cliath" which sounds nothing like "Dublin", being the prime example!

You're right, and someone should tell the Italians that Monaco is in the south of France and not Baveria

I would also strongly advise against travelling in the dolomites of Northern Italy, where many villages have 3 names,

e.g.Ortisei - St. Ulrich - Urtijëi is the same place, with signs for all 3 names common

Strangely enough, this area gets millions of tourists, with the locals usually speaking Laidin, the local language, Italian the national language, and German the provincial language, (as well as English)

deise go deo

LordSutch wrote: »

Well in fairness, Munchen is much closer to Munich than Baile Atha Cliath is to Dublin.

I think what catches tourists out here is the fact that nobody speaks Irish, but then you get one or two Irish names or phrases (mentioned above) that take you by surprise "Baile Atha Cliath" which sounds nothing like "Dublin", being the prime example!

Well, In my opinion this is a good thing, Makes a holaday intresting.
What would be the point of coming here if it was the same as where you came from.

aDeener

deise go deo wrote: »

Well, In my opinion this is a good thing, Makes a holaday intresting.
What would be the point of coming here if it was the same as where you came from.

this here +1000

i travel to places for their uniqueness im sure that's what other travellers do too

Permabear

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SeanW

aDeener wrote: »

this here +1000

i travel to places for their uniqueness im sure that's what other travellers do too

I disagree, this "uniqueness" is totally artificual and manufactured.

And as to the tourists in an earlier post, they would not likely have been impressed by the whole thing, for the simple reason that they're English speakers who had come to Ireland on the understanding that we spoke English also.

If I go to Germany, I understand they speak German (primarily) and I prepare for this appropriately. I also expect to come across things like Munich/Munchen. Those two tourists who came here did not (and should not have been expected to) have this understanding.