Is Irish a dead language?

deise go deo

cyclopath2001 wrote: »

So you do want to bring back the past? And what's this about wanting to be different from the rest of the world, what's that about, really? There are many ways of being Irish, and the current version of the Irish language is only one small attribute.

I dont want to bring back the past, I like my laptop. I want to bring back the language, That you may concider it as something stuck in the past with no relevance to the present dosent mean I am bound by that perception.

What is wrong with being different, It would be horrible if everyone was the same.

Thats not much of an argument against the Language, What would be wrong with bringing it back so it is more widely used?

Or for the Irish to continue speaking English?

Answer the point, Is there any reason for the French to continue speaking French?

Why should they not speak English? Surely it would be more practice, Less translation costs at the EU.

cyclopath2001

deise go deo wrote: »

What is wrong with being different, It would be horrible if everyone was the same.

That's a heck of a way to start a cultural revolution.

deise go deo wrote: »

Thats not much of an argument against the Language,

You think I'm against the language? Is that because I don't wish to learn it?

deise go deo wrote: »

What would be wrong with bringing it back so it is more widely used?

Given the huge lack of interest in speaking Irish it would be a waste of taxpayer's money. No problem, if you can do it at your own expense. Good luck with it.

deise go deo wrote: »

Why should they not speak English? Surely it would be more practice, Less translation costs at the EU.

You're being silly. French is their native language., and for most Irish people, English is ours.

Rebelheart

cyclopath2001 wrote: »

There are many ways of being Irish, and the current version of the Irish language is only one small attribute.

It could be argued that it's "only one small attribute" in your world precisely because defining it as such suits your present personal intellectual and cultural limitations exquisitely well.

caseyann

cyclopath2001 wrote: »

That's a heck of a way to start a cultural revolution.

You think I'm against the language? Is that because I don't wish to learn it?

Given the huge lack of interest in speaking Irish it would be a waste of taxpayer's money. No problem, if you can do it at your own expense. Good luck with it.

You're being silly. French is their native language., and for most Irish people, English is ours.

Oh holy god :rolleyes:

p1akuw47h5r3it

caseyann wrote: »

Oh holy god :rolleyes:

What do you mean he's right!

I was born and raised as English as my native language, therefore Irish isn't my native language. And I'm 100% Irish.

You wouldn't go to a non-Indian American and tell them there native language is Wampanoag or any other Native American language.

caseyann

DanDan6592 wrote: »

What do you mean he's right!

I was born and raised as English as my native language, therefore Irish isn't my native language. And I'm 100% Irish.

You wouldn't go to a non-Indian American and tell them there native language is Wampanoag or any other Native American language.

Good for you

p1akuw47h5r3it

caseyann wrote: »

Good for you

Good you agree with me:)

Sardonicat

Rebelheart wrote: »

It could be argued that it's "only one small attribute" in your world precisely because defining it as such suits your present personal intellectual and cultural limitations exquisitely well.

So, Irish people who don't want to speak Irish are thick and uncultured?

Have you ever wondered why so many people switch off from the language once they leave school?

deise go deo

cyclopath2001 wrote: »

That's a heck of a way to start a cultural revolution.

Ha, an réabhlóid, Have you been talking to GnaG?

Personally I cant think of a better way;)

You think I'm against the language? Is that because I don't wish to learn it?

No I think your against the language because of your constant and consistent attacks on it and its supporters.

Given the huge lack of interest in speaking Irish it would be a waste of taxpayer's money. No problem, if you can do it at your own expense. Good luck with it.

Still no figures I note.:rolleyes:
Taxpayers support the language, Surely their tax should be spent as they want it to be?
So you propose people should have to pay for their own education if they wish for it to be through Irish, Why do you deserve support more than Irish speakers?

You're being silly. French is their native language., and for most Irish people, English is ours.

Are you not against people making unsubstantiated claims about what is and isent other peoples culture? You seem to be doing enough of it your self.
You constantly harp on about English being far more practice as half the world speaks it, Surely the same is true in France or anywhere else, Is translating documents into other languages not wasteful? Or is it only waste if it has to do with Irish?

Rebelheart

Sardonicat wrote: »

Have you ever wondered why so many people switch off from the language once they leave school?

Yes, because they're weak and as such want the easy options in life. Or is that too true for your agenda?

deise go deo

Sardonicat wrote: »

Have you ever wondered why so many people switch off from the language once they leave school?

No, It was quite clear to me, Terrible teaching methods and curriculum making Irish seem pointless, I am interested in Irish but the education system nearly turned me off it, No wonder people who have yet to develop an interest are put off.

Sardonicat

Rebelheart wrote: »

Yes, because they're weak and as such want the easy options in life. Or is that too true for your agenda?

I have no problem with the language itself. What puts me off joining a class or conversation group is the thought of encountering someone like you, who thinks that those of us who can't speak it very well are traitors. Maybe you should reflect on your attitude and how it effects the future of the language.

caseyann

DanDan6592 wrote: »

Good you agree with me:)

No i dont much care for other people speaking for most of Irish.Its just a language that they speak but not native Language of Irish
You keep English for yourself.:)

deise go deo

Sardonicat wrote: »

I have no problem with the language itself. What puts me off joining a class or conversation group is the thought of encountering someone like you, who thinks that those of us who can't speak it very well are traitors. Maybe you should reflect on your attitude and how it effects the future of the language.

Try it, I made many friends from Irish, I have yet to meet someone who thinks people that Don't have good Irish are traitors or anything, My Irish is far from liofa, Dosent mean I cant enjoy learning it.

Sardonicat

Wasn't getting at you, Deise.:)

caseyann

Sardonicat wrote: »

Wasn't getting at you, Deise.:)

Go for it,never let lack of Irish discourage you from going to learn it again or more of it Most of time you will find very helpful and alot of friendship in them circles.

Sardonicat

As I said, I'm not embarrased about my rubbish Irish, I have enough to pick up the thread again pretty quickly, I think. In fact, I have more Irish than some people who insist on mangling it and claiming to be speakers. I wouldn't dream of claiming to be able to speak it. But, I can't stand language fascists ( and they do exist). Just 'cos I'd like to learn it doesn't mean I think it's part of my "unique identity". I don't. And I love the English language.

deise go deo

Sardonicat wrote: »

As I said, I'm not embarrased about my rubbish Irish, I have enough to pick up the thread again pretty quickly, I think. In fact, I have more Irish than some people who insist on mangling it and claiming to be speakers. I wouldn't dream of claiming to be able to speak it. But, I can't stand language fascists ( and they do exist). Just 'cos I'd like to learn it doesn't mean I think it's part of my "unique identity". I don't. And I love the English language.

Think about it, I certainly got more out of Irish personally than I put into it.(and I don't mean financially)

You get pric*s in all walks of life, Don't let people put you down or let them get in the way of you doing something. Just ignore them.
Don't hold a few peoples opinions against Irish.

Enkidu

Rebelheart wrote: »

Yes, because they're weak and as such want the easy options in life. Or is that too true for your agenda?

Please Rebelheart, stuff like this is just an awful thing to say. As I said before there are many parts of Irish culture or other cultures for people to indulge in, not liking the Irish language or not engaging with it is a choice, not a weakness. I think real damage is done by a small minority such as yourself who paint Irish as some sort of national obligation, rather than something you learn for personal reasons.

greatwall

irish is becoming to a dead language for midia...

cyclopath2001

Rebelheart wrote: »

It could be argued that it's "only one small attribute" in your world precisely because defining it as such suits your present personal intellectual and cultural limitations exquisitely well.

Am I to infer from what you say that you consider Irish people who don't wish to speak Irish as being culturally and intellectually limited?

Do you speak Irish so that you can feel superior to others?

Wrong reason.

Cú Giobach

Sardonicat wrote: »

. In fact, I have more Irish than some people who insist on mangling it and claiming to be speakers. I wouldn't dream of claiming to be able to speak it. But, I can't stand language fascists ( and they do exist).

That is the attitude of a language fascist. (and is fairly common with non-native but not with native speakers).
Would you consider a foreigner with broken English to be "mangling" the language.
One of the most important things in language learning is confidence and people should be encouraged and never scorned, no matter how much they "mangle" their attempts.

AlexderFranke

The numbers of speakers stated in the Census does clearly not meet with the truth. But on the other hand I have noticed in Ireland that those who have a fairly good ability to speak Irish often underestimate their own ability. Quite often Irish persons said to me that their Irish would not be that good or that they have a bit. But in reality, a simple conversation was quite easily possible. One time it was very strange. When I went into a pub where the barkeeper stated that he would not be fluent. But in reality he had wonderful Irish. In such cases it is useful to encourage people by praising their Irish.

Irish is clearly neither a dead language nor a widely spoken language. However, Irish is, however, probably the language with the highest amount of people with some knowledge in it beneath English in the Republic from my own experience. French could have as many people with some knowledge in it as Irish.

Ní fhreastalaíonn uimhir na gcainteoirí Gaeilge tugtha sa Dhaonáireamh leis an bhfírinne. Ach ar thaobh eile thug mé faoi déara in Éireann go measann iad seo le cumas sách-mhaith ar labhairt na Gaeilge a gcumas féin faoi luach go minic. Sách-mhinic, dúirt roinnt Éireannach liom nach bhfuil a nGaeilge chomh maith sin nó go bhfuil beagán Gaeilge acu. Ach san fhírinne, d´fhéadfaí comhrá simplí a bheith ann go héasca. Aon uair, bhí sé go han-aisteach. Nuair a chuaigh mé isteach chuig teach tábhairne, dúirt fear an chuntair nach mbeach sé líofa. Ach san fhírinne, bhí Gaeilge iontach aige. I gcásanna mar sin, is fiú misneach a chur trí mholadh a gcuid Gaeilge.

Ní teanga mharbh ná teanga labhraithe go forleathan í an Ghaeilge go soléir. Ar aon chaoi, is í an Ghaeilge an teanga leis an méid daoine le heolas éigin uirthi is airde sa Phoblacht in aice leis an mBéarla, is dócha, i mo thaithí féin. B´fhéidir go bhfuil an mhéid daoine le heolas éigin ar an bhFrainicis chomh ard leis an gceann le heolas ar an nGaeilge.

p1akuw47h5r3it

caseyann wrote: »

No i dont much care for other people speaking for most of Irish.Its just a language that they speak but not native Language of Irish
You keep English for yourself.:)

Your post doesn't make sense:pac::)

p1akuw47h5r3it

Rebelheart wrote: »

Yes, because they're weak and as such want the easy options in life. Or is that too true for your agenda?

I chose to study a very difficult language in University. i certainly didn't take "easy option".

That post is a load of ****e!

deise go deo

greatwall wrote: »

irish is becoming to a dead language for midia...

Whats the link for?


Not really dead for media when you consider we have more Irish language media than ever before.

cyclopath2001

deise go deo wrote: »

Not really dead for media when you consider we have more Irish language media than ever before.

That's an interesting statement.

Name one Irish-langauge daily newspaper, that's not given away and which is not subsidised by the government?

deise go deo

cyclopath2001 wrote: »

That's an interesting statement.

Name one Irish-langauge daily newspaper, that's not given away and which is not subsidised by the government?

What has that to do with what I said, That they recieve support from the state dosent mean they dont exist.

I said that there is more Irish language media now than there has ever been before, Do you disagree with that?

Eliot Rosewater

<moved from the "forced culture" thread - oB>

listermint wrote: »

So by removing the onus of Irish within education would this not then effectively kill off the language ?

Well, this is the point. If the Irish people value the Irish language enough they will keep learning it. If the whole lot of them don't care about it, it will die. As a result, the fate of the language is directly based on whether the Irish people want it or not. That seems fair to me.

For what it's worth, I don't think the Irish language would die. There's even an argument to be made that it would be strengthened: if it were voluntary there would be a onus on the teachers and educators to make it more interesting and culturally relevant. This would result in a better curriculum and increased student interest.

listermint wrote: »

But are you not by projecting your own personal view point on your children emulating everything that you have posted against in this thread?

Yes, of course. There's simply no other way. 10 year old children are not in a position to make responsible decisions about their education, so that task is delegated to parents and the State. I believe the State has some responsibility to ensure parents don't raise their kids without maths and English, but in the case of Irish, where it is of very subjective merit, I believe the decision should be left to the parents.

listermint wrote: »

In summation, what literal 'harm' does an additional language do to the children.

The opportunity cost of the Irish language is enormous. Irish children spend time on it nearly every day of their 14 years in primary and secondary school. This very valuable time could instead be spent teaching science, politics, philosophy, ethics, further reading skills, further maths skills etc etc.

deise go deo

Eliot Rosewater wrote: »

Well, this is the point. If the Irish people value the Irish language enough they will keep learning it. If the whole lot of them don't care about it, it will die. As a result, the fate of the language is directly based on whether the Irish people want it or not. That seems fair to me.

Do they not pay tax?
If people pay tax for an education system and want Irish as part of that system then should it not be?

For what it's worth, I don't think the Irish language would die. There's even an argument to be made that it would be strengthened: if it were voluntary there would be a onus on the teachers and educators to make it more interesting and culturally relevant. This would result in a better curriculum and increased student interest.

There is an even better argument for it to be reformed in schools.

Yes, of course. There's simply no other way. 10 year old children are not in a position to make responsible decisions about their education, so that task is delegated to parents and the State. I believe the State has some responsibility to ensure parents don't raise their kids without maths and English, but in the case of Irish, where it is of very subjective merit, I believe the decision should be left to the parents.

There is nothing subjective about the merrit of learning a second Language and as something to have on your CV Irish opens up many Job Oppertunities, R na G, Irish Teaching, TG4, Jobs in Gaelthachts etc

The opportunity cost of the Irish language is enormous. Irish children spend time on it nearly every day of their 14 years in primary and secondary school. This very valuable time could instead be spent teaching science, politics, philosophy, ethics, further reading skills, further maths skills etc etc.

Yes and in ten years time we will be looking at threads on how Philosophy is a waste of time in Schools, Students dont want to do it, Waste of money, Let them pay for it themselvs if they want to learn it, etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc