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Is Irish a dead language?

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    #2372
    MysticalRain
    Registered Users Posts: 1,428 ✭✭✭MysticalRain


    And other countries dont fund languages of their own in their schools or foreign languages,because they know how to spell words by magic and Irish kids are meant to be able to construct Irish sentences by magic?Or that should be down to the parents?
    No, it should be down to a pupils own choice. I would argue that some sort of language besides English should be compulsory. Whether or not that is Irish, Chinese, or a European language, should be left up to the children and their parents to decide and not be mandated by the state for the sake of nationalism.
    caseyann wrote: »
    It sounds to me sorry if i am mistaken,you are militarizing Irish language in your own mind and turning it into something it is not.
    No one said that they should not make it compulsory in some schools so you can send your kids to that school.And for the parents who see great importance on Irish send their kids to schools were Irish is readily available for them to learn.Along with all the other subjects they are taught in school which are state funded ;)
    i know a few subjects i would have liked not to have to take which were compulsory in school and quite frankly i will never use and had no interest in at all.

    I don't think it is stretch to argue that there is a militant, uncompromising, attitude behind the teaching of Irish. Not least because of the amount of state coercion involved.


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    #2373
    deise go deo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,677 ✭✭✭deise go deo


    MysticalRain wrote: »
    I would have to question your statistics. Back in the 1960s, my father was taught through Irish for most of his primary schooling and about half of his secondary schooling. So I doubt very much if there were only 10 Irish speaking national schools back in 1972.

    Tá an staidreamh ar fáil ag teo Gaeilscoileanna,An comhlacht atá freagrach as an fás agus forbairt na gaeilscoileanna, Ba mhaith liom iarraidh chun cur in aghaidh fianaise más rud é nach bhfuil tú ag dul a chreidiúint na figiúirí agam ar fáil.

    The statistics are provided by Gaeilscoileanna teo, The body responsible for the growth and development of gaeilscoileanna, I would ask for counter evidence if you are not going to believe the figures I have provided.


    I doubt if Irish in its present context would even rise to the level of a "passing fad". Whatever way you spin it, 20,000 pupils is a miniscule number in the greater scheme of things


    Cén t-ainm a dhéanamh ar céim amháin a thaispeáint go bhfuil fás i gcónaí agus chomh comhleanúnach agus os cionn 30 bliain? Is é an céim á léiriú aon chomharthaí de níos lú as lá atá inniu ann.
    Ba chóir duit seiceáil ar do figiúirí, tá tú faoi líon measta ag leath.;)

    Can you name a single fad that has shown growth constantly and consistently over 30 years? The fad is also showing no signs of slacking off today.
    You should check your figures, You have under estimated the number by half    .;)


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    #2374
    deise go deo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,677 ✭✭✭deise go deo


    MysticalRain wrote: »
    You might actually have a point if you were referring to the long dead language which the Romans actually spoke i.e. Latin. Unlike Latin or Irish, French and Spanish are spoken by hundreds of millions of people around the world and in great demand from an economic perspective. An education system which teaches those languages is much more likely to produce employable graduates in a modern context than teaching Irish ever could.

    If you want to defend the Irish education system's excessive focus on religious indoctrination, then go right ahead. Just remember how well that strategy worked out for education in the Islamic world.

    Right.:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

    So teaching Irish is a Backward, Dev thinking jehadi persuite? Thanks for that, What have I been wasting my time on?

    And you think its odd that we think you have something against Irish:pac:


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    #2375
    MysticalRain
    Registered Users Posts: 1,428 ✭✭✭MysticalRain


    deise go deo wrote: »
    etc etc etc
    Perhaps you should check your figures? There are vastly less people speaking Irish than there were eighty years ago. This newfangled gaelic language fad has a long way to go before the numbers of Irish speakers even reaches 10% of the population.


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    #2376
    deise go deo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,677 ✭✭✭deise go deo


    MysticalRain wrote: »
    I don't think it is stretch to argue that there is a militant, uncompromising, attitude behind the teaching of Irish. Not least because of the amount of state coercion involved.


    I feel the facist label comeing on.:p
    You would be in a small minority on that one.;)


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    #2377
    MysticalRain
    Registered Users Posts: 1,428 ✭✭✭MysticalRain


    deise go deo wrote: »
    Right.:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

    So teaching Irish is a Backward, Dev thinking jehadi persuite? Thanks for that, What have I been wasting my time on?

    And you think its odd that we think you have something against Irish:pac:

    I have nothing against the teaching of Irish, so long as it's not made compulsory. I just happen to have a different set of values to you when it comes to education. My priorities are oriented towards technological and economic progress. Not turning the clock back to a bygone age where most of us spoke Irish and worshipped some old guy in the Vatican.

    I have absolutely no idea what you're trying to say with "jehadi persuite" and Dev.


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    #2378
    MysticalRain
    Registered Users Posts: 1,428 ✭✭✭MysticalRain


    deise go deo wrote: »
    I feel the facist label comeing on.:p
    You would be in a small minority on that one.;)

    You mean that "small minority" of native English speakers on this island for whom Irish is largely irrelevant on a day to day basis?


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    #2379
    deise go deo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,677 ✭✭✭deise go deo


    MysticalRain wrote: »
    Perhaps you should check your figures? There are vastly less people speaking Irish than there were eight years ago. This newfangled gaelic language fad has a long way to go before the numbers of Irish speakers even reaches 10% of the population.

    Vastly less than 8 years ago? Now I really need to see the figures on this one.

    New how? I cant wait for the answer to this one. Is it that it has a standardised version? (dont let the fact that every modern language has get in the way)

    Irish Fad? Again, Show me a single example of a fad that has a) Been around for hundreds of years and
    b) Has seen its education grow constantly for 30 years.


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    #2380
    deise go deo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,677 ✭✭✭deise go deo


    MysticalRain wrote: »
    You mean that "small minority" of native English speakers on this island for whom Irish is largely irrelevant on a day to day basis?

    I mean the small minority that is against the Irish language being supported by the state. Do you believe the majority in Ireland are against Irish?


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    #2381
    deise go deo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,677 ✭✭✭deise go deo


    MysticalRain wrote: »
    I have nothing against the teaching of Irish, so long as it's not made compulsory. I just happen to have a different set of values to you when it comes to education. My priorities are oriented towards technological and economic progress. Not turning the clock back to a bygone age where most of us spoke Irish and worshipped some old guy in the Vatican.

    I have absolutely no idea what you're trying to say with "jehadi persuite" and Dev.

    Again teaching irish = Backward,
    Not teaching Irish = progressive.

    That is a very dishonest argument to adopt.


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    #2382
    caseyann
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,941 ✭✭✭caseyann


    MysticalRain wrote: »
    You might actually have a point if you were referring to the long dead language which the Romans actually spoke i.e. Latin. Unlike Latin or Irish, French and Spanish are spoken by hundreds of millions of people around the world and in great demand from an economic perspective. An education system which teaches those languages is much more likely to produce employable graduates in a modern context than teaching Irish ever could.

    If you want to defend the Irish education system's excessive focus on religious indoctrination, then go right ahead. Just remember how well that strategy worked out for education in the Islamic world.

    Wow wow wow big difference in Religion in Ireland and religion in Islamic states,even to America we are hugely milder on religious indoctrination.Whole other matter then on this thread.


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    #2383
    MysticalRain
    Registered Users Posts: 1,428 ✭✭✭MysticalRain


    deise go deo wrote: »
    Vastly less than 8 years ago? Now I really need to see the figures on this one.

    New how? I cant wait for the answer to this one. Is it that it has a standardised version? (dont let the fact that every modern language has get in the way)

    Irish Fad? Again, Show me a single example of a fad that has a) Been around for hundreds of years and
    b) Has seen its education grow constantly for 30 years.


    Eight was a typo.

    I never said Irish was a "fad". Far from it. What I actually said is that Irish in the present context doesn't even rise to that level of popularity in the greater scheme of things.

    You keep telling us that Irish is growing. That may be true. But it is from a very small base, and it would take centuries at its present growth to reach the millions of people who spoke the language back in its heyday. That is the point you keep missing.


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    #2384
    MysticalRain
    Registered Users Posts: 1,428 ✭✭✭MysticalRain


    deise go deo wrote: »
    I mean the small minority that is against the Irish language being supported by the state. Do you believe the majority in Ireland are against Irish?

    I don't think anybody on this island would completely agree with cutting state funding for the language. I certainly wouldn't. That's not the question here. The question is whether or not most people on this island which agree with the compulsory teaching of Irish at the expense of other subjects or devote so much of what little money the state has these days towards funding it.


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    #2385
    MysticalRain
    Registered Users Posts: 1,428 ✭✭✭MysticalRain


    caseyann wrote: »
    Wow wow wow big difference in Religion in Ireland and religion in Islamic states,even to America we are hugely milder on religious indoctrination.Whole other matter then on this thread.

    You might have a point nowadays. But we were actually pretty hardcore when it came to religion up until about 20 years ago, as anybody old enough to remember the 1980s can attest.


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    #2386
    deise go deo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,677 ✭✭✭deise go deo


    MysticalRain wrote: »
    I never said Irish was a "fad". Far from it. What I actually said is that Irish in the present context doesn't even rise to that level of popularity in the greater scheme of things.

    Ah, So you think something that is spoken by tens of thousands of people every day, Is tought to tens of thousands more every day and is being learned by further thousands, and has been for several hundred years. And is the first language of the state, and has a TV station, several radio stations and newspapers devoted to it, isent even a fad but is less than a fad.?
    Is that really what you are saying? Are you sure?:rolleyes:

    You keep telling us that Irish is growing. That may be true. But it is from a very small base, and it would take centuries at its present growth to reach the millions of people who spoke the language back in its heyday. That is the point you keep missing.

    You are the only one looking backwards here, why should I care about the past. it is the future I am looking tword, and in that future Irish is growing. That is the point you keep missing.

    You have constantly made irrelevant arguments, bringing up dev ffs, what has he got to do with anything?


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    #2387
    MysticalRain
    Registered Users Posts: 1,428 ✭✭✭MysticalRain


    deise go deo wrote: »
    Again teaching irish = Backward,
    Not teaching Irish = progressive.

    That is a very dishonest argument to adopt.

    From an economic point of view, it's the truth. That's effectively what American multinationals are telling us about our education system these days.


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    #2388
    Focalbhach
    Registered Users Posts: 459 ✭✭Focalbhach


    caseyann wrote: »
    Wow wow wow big difference in Religion in Ireland and religion in Islamic states,even to America we are hugely milder on religious indoctrination.Whole other matter then on this thread.

    Why the feck is religion poking its head into this discussion in the first place??

    :confused:


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    #2389
    deise go deo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,677 ✭✭✭deise go deo


    MysticalRain wrote: »
    From an economic point of view, it's the truth.''In my Opinion''
    That's effectively what American multinationals are telling us about our education system these days.

    Fixed your post.;)


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    #2390
    deise go deo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,677 ✭✭✭deise go deo


    Leto wrote: »
    Why the feck is religion poking its head into this discussion in the first place??

    :confused:

    The age old idea of throw enough mud and some will stick;)


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    #2391
    MysticalRain
    Registered Users Posts: 1,428 ✭✭✭MysticalRain


    deise go deo wrote: »
    Ah, So you think something that is spoken by tens of thousands of people every day, Is tought to tens of thousands more every day and is being learned by further thousands, and has been for several hundred years. And is the first language of the state, and has a TV station, several radio stations and newspapers devoted to it, isent even a fad but is less than a fad.?
    Is that really what you are saying? Are you sure?:rolleyes:
    I never said it was a fad (as I repeat for the third time).
    You have constantly made irrelevant arguments, bringing up dev ffs, what has he got to do with anything?
    I wasn't the one who brought religion and nationalism into this argument, and combined it with Irish.
    You are the only one looking backwards here, why should I care about the past. it is the future I am looking tword, and in that future Irish is growing. That is the point you keep missing.

    I merely pointed out that there are a lot less people speaking Irish than there were 80 or even 150 years ago. Not to mention the fact that the gealteacht areas have been shrinking for decades now.


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    #2392
    MysticalRain
    Registered Users Posts: 1,428 ✭✭✭MysticalRain


    deise go deo wrote: »
    Fixed your post.;)

    The CEO's of the aforementioned technology companies just happen to disagree with you there. I need not point out to you that this country's economy lives or dies based on their whims.


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    #2393
    deise go deo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,677 ✭✭✭deise go deo


    MysticalRain wrote: »
    I never it was a fad (as I repeat for the third time).




    Are you not trying to claim that Irish isent even a fad, that it is less than a fad? So answer the question, Is that what you are really trying to claim? Really?

    I wasn't the one who brought religion and nationalism into this argument, and combined it with Irish.

    Religion hasent been mentioned in a good 50 pages or so, You are the one bringing it up now, so why is that?
    I merely point out that there are a lot less people speaking Irish that there were 80 or even 150 years ago. Not to mention the fact that the gealteacht areas have been shrinking for decades now.

    And your point is? Do you disagree that gaeilscoileanna are growing at an impressive rate? Do you think this growth will die out anytime soon?


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    #2394
    Focalbhach
    Registered Users Posts: 459 ✭✭Focalbhach


    MysticalRain wrote: »
    I wasn't the one who brought religion and nationalism into this argument, and combined it with Irish.

    Yes, you did. In the last hour or so, you've decided to talk about...


    "Superstitious Iron Age beliefs":
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=68958064&postcount=2367

    "Religious indoctrination":
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=68959253&postcount=2369

    "Not turning the clock back to a bygone age where most of us spoke Irish and worshipped some old guy in the Vatican" :
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=68960065&postcount=2378


    I'm baffled by the point you're trying to make.


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    #2395
    deise go deo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,677 ✭✭✭deise go deo


    MysticalRain wrote: »
    The CEO's of the aforementioned technology companies just happen to disagree with you there.

    You are twisting a broad comment by a foreign business man on Irish education into an attack on the teaching of Irish, Be honest now, that is far from a fair representation.

    Anyway, Im sure you will forgive me if I don't base the Irish education system on something the CEO of dell happened to say once.
    I need not point out to you that this country's economy lives or dies based on their whims.


    Has dell not already left?


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    #2396
    MysticalRain
    Registered Users Posts: 1,428 ✭✭✭MysticalRain


    Leto wrote: »
    Yes, you did. In the last hour or so, you've decided to talk about...


    "Superstitious Iron Age beliefs":
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=68958064&postcount=2367

    "Religious indoctrination":
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=68959253&postcount=2369

    "Not turning the clock back to a bygone age where most of us spoke Irish and worshipped some old guy in the Vatican" :
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=68960065&postcount=2378


    I'm baffled by the point you're trying to make.

    It wasn't me who "decided" to talk about religion. It was another poster who introduced that element into the thread.

    If you had actually read the quotes above the text you copied and pasted here, you would have figured out that I was responding to somebody else's point about religion.

    If you want to bitch about somebody introducing religion into this discussion, then take it up with the person I was replying to, not me.


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    #2397
    Focalbhach
    Registered Users Posts: 459 ✭✭Focalbhach


    MysticalRain wrote: »
    It wasn't me who "decided" to talk about religion. It was another poster who introduced that element into the thread.

    If you had actually read the quotes above the text you copied and pasted here, you would have figured out that I was responding to somebody else's point about religion.

    If you want to bitch about somebody introducing religion into this discussion, then take it up with the person I was replying to, not me.

    Ah, fair enough - I hadn't noticed that you were responding to caseyann's comment. Apologies. If you notice, I queried the same point with caseyann above too (edit: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=68960397&postcount=2389).

    Carry on!


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    #2398
    MysticalRain
    Registered Users Posts: 1,428 ✭✭✭MysticalRain


    deise go deo wrote: »
    You are twisting a broad comment by a foreign business man on Irish education into an attack on the teaching of Irish, Be honest now, that is far from a fair representation.
    The head of HP in Ireland specifically said that the Irish education system spends too much time on subjects like Irish and not enough time on math and science. It doesn't get any more specific than that.
    Anyway, Im sure you will forgive me if I don't base the Irish education system on something the CEO of dell happened to say once.
    It's easy to figure out you don't work in science or technology with words like that.


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    #2399
    deise go deo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,677 ✭✭✭deise go deo


    MysticalRain wrote: »
    the so-called promoters of the language have spent the last 80 years doing that much more successfully than any critic of the language

    Before I forget, What have you to go along whit this nugget of insight? It seams to me you will happily sling any half baked argument against Irish.


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    #2400
    MysticalRain
    Registered Users Posts: 1,428 ✭✭✭MysticalRain


    Leto wrote: »
    Ah, fair enough - I hadn't noticed that you were responding to caseyann's comment. Apologies. If you notice, I queried the same point with caseyann above too (edit: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=68960397&postcount=2389).

    Carry on!

    No problem. Hopefully I will convince the other poster that I never said Irish was a "fad" either.


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    #2401
    deise go deo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,677 ✭✭✭deise go deo


    MysticalRain wrote: »
    It's easy to figure out you don't work in science or technology with words like that.

    I am actually studying materials and engineering teaching in University.:eek:


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