Is Irish a dead language?

deise go deo

Kosseegan wrote: »

There are a few thousand native speakers. About as many as the population of a good sized Irish town.

I would like to see where you are getting your figures from, There aer many nore than 'a few thousand'

The OLA is an attempt to boost artificially the use of the language. Most public servants can't work in Irish, jury trials cqnnot be heard in Irish, The Supreme Court cannot put a quorum of three together from within its numbers to hear a case in Irish. Minority languages are being subsumed by their neighbours in the era of greater communication. People made a change around the turn of the 20th century towards English with native speakers bringing up their families through English. It is unstoppable. Better policies in the past migh have helped but the reality is Irish is an intellectual curiosity.

Your point about trials is interesting given that every one in the state has a right to use irish in the court system with out being put at any disadvantage. Again I woulf like to see what you are basing your claims on. Irish is a growing language that has the support of the vast majority of the population. That is the reality.

cyclopath2001

deise go deo wrote: »

every one in the state has a right to use irish in the court system with out being put at any disadvantage.

The would only be a disadvantage if the person in question had Irish as a first and maternal language.

deise go deo wrote: »

Irish is a growing language that has the support of the vast majority of the population. That is the reality.

The reality is that the growth is in synthetic, 'official Irish'. The actual authentic language and the society that created it is withering. The 'support' that you claim is of the 'mom and apple pie' variety.

deise go deo

cyclopath2001 wrote: »

The would only be a disadvantage if the person in question had Irish as a first and maternal language.

There should be no disadvantage, Anyone who wants to can use Irish in the court system with out being put at a disadvantage for their choice of language.

The reality is that the growth is in synthetic, 'official Irish'. The actual authentic language and the society that created it is withering. The 'support' that you claim is of the 'mom and apple pie' variety.

Irish is growing as a spoken language. What is Synthetic about it? Are people who are fluent in, or a native speaker of standardized Irish somehow a less authentic Irish speaker than someone fluent in a Dialect of Irish? How so? If a Gaeilgóir claimed that they would be accused of snobbery.

dubhthach

All languages have the concept of Register. After all the highest register of English is "Received Pronunciation" which isn't really the dialect/accent of anyone but that which you "receive in education".

Usually the highest register of a language be it English, Irish, French, German is dialect neutral (General American for example). Over time what tends to happen is you get "Dialect levelling". This can be seen in Hiberno-English with the rise of what linguists are calling the "New Dublin" accent. This is having a levelling affect in even the most rural parts of Ireland. This is producing a more uniform accent across the younger generations. This is often decried as "Dort-speak/RTE-speak" however it the nature of languages for these things to occur.

The whole authentic/synthetic argument flys in the face of how languages actually evolve. 400 years ago no doubt bards/filí were decrying the "vernacular dialects" as been synthetic compared to the more "authentic" learned-dialect -- which reflected the spoken language 2-300 years before hand.

Same argument could be apply to any language.

cyclopath2001

deise go deo wrote: »

There should be no disadvantage, Anyone who wants to can use Irish in the court system with out being put at a disadvantage for their choice of language.

That would depend on the fluency of the person insisting on

deise go deo wrote: »

What is Synthetic about it? Are people who are fluent in, or a native speaker of standardized I

deise go deo wrote: »

I suppose if you cannot preserve original authentic Irish, a recreated version will have to do.

Godge

deise go deo wrote: »

Irish is a language native to this country, English is not, Hiberno English is nothing more than English that has been influenced by the Irish language, That dosent mean it is native to this Country,
What makes Irish 'Irish' is that it is from this Country, It is shaped by this country, Its expressions are of this Country,
And Most importantly, it is supported by the majority of people in this Country.




I would approve of Aboriginal people learning Aboriginal Languages, Just like Irish people learning the Irish language.;)

deise go deo wrote: »

That has never been my experience, I am a learner who has gone to the gaelthacht to speak Irish many times, I have never once encountered any snobbery.





I am a Learner of Irish and have been in the gaelthacht several times, I have never come across this. Nor has any other learner mentioned this to me. The only thing I can think of is the dislike of many towards what is known as 'Béarlachs' that is the direct translation of a phrase from English into Irish that is meaningless in Irish. Phrases like 'Oh mo Dhia' (OMG) But you wont learn these phrases in any book. They are not Irish, They are just a collection of words that mean something in a different language.
This dislaike is not to be confused with a dislike of new phrases coming into the language, There are many such new phrases, but they actually make sense in Irish, its just a dislike of nonsense.



Nonsense. Wher did you come across this? I know that if I were to walk into a pub in the gaelthacht wearing a Liverpool Jersay(For example) I would not face mistrust or haterd, Just get a ribbing from the Man U supporters in the pub(as gaeilge).



Yes it seams you have just come up with them, because I doubt you ever experienced it first hand.

Yes, your two separate posts show that you have never experienced any Irish language-related snobbery, you just tend to dish it out.

deise go deo

Godge wrote: »

Yes, your two separate posts show that you have never experienced any Irish language-related snobbery, you just tend to dish it out.

Ever heard of playing the ball not the man?

That post which you conviently have taken out of context was in relation to a poster claiming that Hiberno English is a language more native to Ireland than the Irish langage is, The general line of his argument was that Irish is not really the 'Irish' language at all. A notion that is purely ridiculus.

The Irish language is more 'Irish' than the English language. That much is obvious from the very form of the sentence. That dosent make me a snob, I dont look down on people for speaking English or make ridiculus generalisations about them like 'Gaelgoirs and gaelthacht people have an apparant mistrust and seeming hatred to things such as football or anything else assoicated with England or Great Britain'



Now if you want to argue the points I made to the other poster in either case then by all means go ahead, but shoddy ad hominum is no way to further your argument.

deise go deo

cyclopath2001 wrote: »

That would depend on the fluency of the person insisting on

I mean they have the right not to be disadvantaged by the system, they have the right to a service as good as that provided through English.

I suppose if you cannot preserve original authentic Irish, a recreated version will have to do.

What are you talking about? What original authentic Irish? Old Irish? Middle Irish?

I suppose English speakers are speaking a recreated version of English that has lost its aunthicity, English is standardised after all.:rolleyes:

I cant for the life of me see what your problem is. The differences between Standardised Irish and the Dialects are minute and Grametical in nature. (The standard is based on the Dialects) Much of the seeming difference is no more than local sayings and pronouncation. Its the same language.

Are people who speak English with a Cork accent less 'Authentic' English speakers than people who speak English with a London accent?

Is standard English 'Less authentic' because it differs from the language that Shakespear wrote in?

I think you are just digging for mud to throw at Irish because your arguments make no sense.

Kosseegan

deise go deo wrote: »

I would like to see where you are getting your figures from, There aer many nore than 'a few thousand' Your point about trials is interesting given that every one in the state has a right to use irish in the court system with out being put at any disadvantage. Again I woulf like to see what you are basing your claims on. Irish is a growing language that has the support of the vast majority of the population. That is the reality.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055958148&page=174

"Somewhere around 20-30 thousand native speakers and 10's of thousands more use it as their main method of communication."
MACARTHAIGH V IRELAND
[URL="javascript:;"][1999] 1 I.R. 200;[/URL]
The applicant was charged with three criminal offences, inter alia, that he did within the Dublin Metropolitan District, rob assorted chocolates and confectionery to the total value of £11,252.50. It was arranged to try the applicant on the charges in question before a judge sitting with a jury in the Circuit Court. The applicant wished to conduct his own side of the criminal proceedings in the Irish language and intimated that anything to be said by him in evidence or any submission to be made by any lawyer acting on his behalf would be in that language. The matter was being prosecuted in the English language by the third respondent. The trial was adjourned to afford the applicant an opportunity to seek judicial review in the High Court requiring a jury having the capacity to understand the Irish language without the assistance of an interpreter. Held by the High Court (O'Hanlon J.), in refusing the application, that there was no violation of the rights of the applicant under the Constitution in not providing a jury which would have an ability to understand evidence or other statements to be made in the Irish language without the assistance of an interpreter. The applicant appealed to the Supreme Court. Held by the Supreme Court (Hamilton C.J., O'Flaherty, Murphy, Lynch and Barron JJ.) in dismissing the appeal that, if every member of a jury had to be able to understand legal matters in the Irish language without the assistance of an interpreter, then the majority of the people of Ireland would be excluded. That would amount to a violation of Article 38.5 of the Constitution.

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Godge

deise go deo wrote: »

Ever heard of playing the ball not the man?

That post which you conviently have taken out of context was in relation to a poster claiming that Hiberno English is a language more native to Ireland than the Irish langage is, The general line of his argument was that Irish is not really the 'Irish' language at all. A notion that is purely ridiculus.

The Irish language is more 'Irish' than the English language. That much is obvious from the very form of the sentence. That dosent make me a snob, I dont look down on people for speaking English or make ridiculus generalisations about them like 'Gaelgoirs and gaelthacht people have an apparant mistrust and seeming hatred to things such as football or anything else assoicated with England or Great Britain'



Now if you want to argue the points I made to the other poster in either case then by all means go ahead, but shoddy ad hominum is no way to further your argument.

You just don't see it. It is snobbery to claim anything as exclusive or better or more Irish. You claim Irish as the one true language and Hiberno English as a lesser language. That is snobbery whichever way you look at it. Personally as the single remaining speaker of Ogham, I look down on all lesser languages that have arrived in Ireland since:D. Get the point yet? Because Hiberno English is spoken by more Irish people, it does have a legitimate claim to be the more important Irish language (or language of Ireland if you prefer). That is an uncomfortable and inconvenient truth for the Irish language fanatics but there you are. By not acknowledging that, you are a snob. You then say you have never experienced snobbery with regard to the Irish language!! I am not too bothered one way or the other, my only concern in this is the huge waste of resources on preserving something which has a natural lifespan and is dying out naturally.

This issue is not unique to Ireland, the French have the same insecurities about their language. To date, the English have been less worried (and the Spanish) but expect great weeping and wailing when Chinglish or Txtspk become the number one language. Fact is, language evolves. Otherwise we would all be speaking Etruscan, Ogham or Hieroglyphics.

Keep up your campaign. I note you create threads with open questions but you then jump on anyone who does not answer the question in the way you want. You also ignore what they say as there are plenty of people in the various threads who have written about their bad experiences with the Irish language elite mafia. Look, you are entitled to do all that, you are entitled to hold your opinions but I am entitled to hold mine and am entitled to point out when I think your posts contradict themselves without being accused of playing the man.

dubhthach

Godge wrote: »

You just don't see it. It is snobbery to claim anything as exclusive or better or more Irish. You claim Irish as the one true language and Hiberno English as a lesser language. That is snobbery whichever way you look at it. Personally as the single remaining speaker of Ogham, I look down on all lesser languages that have arrived in Ireland since:D. Get the point yet? Because Hiberno English is spoken by more Irish people, it does have a legitimate claim to be the more important Irish language (or language of Ireland if you prefer). That is an uncomfortable and inconvenient truth for the Irish language fanatics but there you are. By not acknowledging that, you are a snob. You then say you have never experienced snobbery with regard to the Irish language!! I am not too bothered one way or the other, my only concern in this is the huge waste of resources on preserving something which has a natural lifespan and is dying out naturally.

This issue is not unique to Ireland, the French have the same insecurities about their language. To date, the English have been less worried (and the Spanish) but expect great weeping and wailing when Chinglish or Txtspk become the number one language. Fact is, language evolves. Otherwise we would all be speaking Etruscan, Ogham or Hieroglyphics.

Keep up your campaign. I note you create threads with open questions but you then jump on anyone who does not answer the question in the way you want. You also ignore what they say as there are plenty of people in the various threads who have written about their bad experiences with the Irish language elite mafia. Look, you are entitled to do all that, you are entitled to hold your opinions but I am entitled to hold mine and am entitled to point out when I think your posts contradict themselves without being accused of playing the man.

Minor nitpick, Ogham isn't a language it's an alphabet for writing "archaic Irish" and Pictish (on Ogham stones in Scotland). Similiar to Germanic Runes in a sense. Likewise Hieroglyphics is writing system for "ancient Egyptian" the ancestor of the Coptic language.

As for Hiberno-English it's undergoing several changes at the moment as can be seen with the rise of "New Dublin" . It's quite different from Hiberno-English of 100 years ago. Alot of the salient features of Hiberno-English are due to an Irish language substrate. This can be see in direct borrowings/calques from Irish in grammar/vocabulary/expressions. The other major differential would be preservation of older English terms/pronunciations.

Of course alot of these features are now disappearing no doubt due to the influence of Telecommunications in late 20th century. As a result we will probably see a more general levelling of most English dialects -- "Mid Atlantic English" anyone?

deise go deo

Godge wrote: »

You just don't see it. It is snobbery to claim anything as exclusive or better or more Irish. You claim Irish as the one true language and Hiberno English as a lesser language. That is snobbery whichever way you look at it. Personally as the single remaining speaker of Ogham, I look down on all lesser languages that have arrived in Ireland since:D. Get the point yet? Because Hiberno English is spoken by more Irish people, it does have a legitimate claim to be the more important Irish language (or language of Ireland if you prefer). That is an uncomfortable and inconvenient truth for the Irish language fanatics but there you are. By not acknowledging that, you are a snob. You then say you have never experienced snobbery with regard to the Irish language!! I am not too bothered one way or the other, my only concern in this is the huge waste of resources on preserving something which has a natural lifespan and is dying out naturally.

I have never claimed that Irish is better or exclusive, I have claimed its more 'Irish' but then the clues in the name. That its more 'Irish' dosent make it a better language than any other just different, I have never referred to Irish as the one true language(where do you get this stuff?)

You make the claim that Irish is dying, I wounder if you would be willing to back that claim up with an example, something to show you are correct in your claim from the last 15 years. The truth is that Irish is a growing language, and I can show several examples to back my claim up.

This issue is not unique to Ireland, the French have the same insecurities about their language. To date, the English have been less worried (and the Spanish) but expect great weeping and wailing when Chinglish or Txtspk become the number one language. Fact is, language evolves. Otherwise we would all be speaking Etruscan, Ogham or Hieroglyphics.

Your quite wrong there, language displacement on the scale we have seen here is very rare, It has not happened anywhere else in Europe with the rapidity that it happened here, some people like to convince themselves that Irish declining like it did is in some way 'normal', when in reality it was anything but.

Fortunately we have come through it, and Irish is still a living language and can be revived. As for your notion that Txtspk or Chinglish becoming 'the No1 language' its unlikly that there will ever be a world language and if there is it probably wont be English or any form of it.

Just so you know, no one ever spoke 'ohagm' People did and still do speak Irish however.

Keep up your campaign. I note you create threads with open questions but you then jump on anyone who does not answer the question in the way you want. You also ignore what they say as there are plenty of people in the various threads who have written about their bad experiences with the Irish language elite mafia. Look, you are entitled to do all that, you are entitled to hold your opinions but I am entitled to hold mine and am entitled to point out when I think your posts contradict themselves without being accused of playing the man.

Show me an example of contradiction.

I have never jumped on anyone for answering a question, I may challenge their answer, but not 'jump on them' I find it odd that you expect me to ask a question and then agree with the answers I get, why should I? I asked the questions as a method of starting debate not a head nodding session.

I do not deny that some people have had a bad experience, I have heard some terrible stories of people getting beaten in Irish class etc, but to blame the language rather than the sadists that were beating them is in my opinion misplaced(though on the whole understandable), As for an Irish language elite mafia? That is not reality,(Sounds more like a comic book :rolleyes: )

I was not accusing you of 'playing the man' for trying to show me contradicting myself but for claiming that I was dishing out 'language snobbery'

deise go deo

Kosseegan wrote: »

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055958148&page=174

"Somewhere around 20-30 thousand native speakers and 10's of thousands more use it as their main method of communication."
MACARTHAIGH V IRELAND
[URL="javascript:;"][1999] 1 I.R. 200;[/URL]
The applicant was charged with three criminal offences, inter alia, that he did within the Dublin Metropolitan District, rob assorted chocolates and confectionery to the total value of £11,252.50. It was arranged to try the applicant on the charges in question before a judge sitting with a jury in the Circuit Court. The applicant wished to conduct his own side of the criminal proceedings in the Irish language and intimated that anything to be said by him in evidence or any submission to be made by any lawyer acting on his behalf would be in that language. The matter was being prosecuted in the English language by the third respondent. The trial was adjourned to afford the applicant an opportunity to seek judicial review in the High Court requiring a jury having the capacity to understand the Irish language without the assistance of an interpreter. Held by the High Court (O'Hanlon J.), in refusing the application, that there was no violation of the rights of the applicant under the Constitution in not providing a jury which would have an ability to understand evidence or other statements to be made in the Irish language without the assistance of an interpreter. The applicant appealed to the Supreme Court. Held by the Supreme Court (Hamilton C.J., O'Flaherty, Murphy, Lynch and Barron JJ.) in dismissing the appeal that, if every member of a jury had to be able to understand legal matters in the Irish language without the assistance of an interpreter, then the majority of the people of Ireland would be excluded. That would amount to a violation of Article 38.5 of the Constitution.

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It seams that judgment was made in 1999, Since then we have had the Official languages act 2003 which guarantees that people have the right to a trial(Among other things) through Irish.

Jo King

deise go deo wrote: »

It seams that judgment was made in 1999, Since then we have had the Official languages act 2003 which guarantees that people have the right to a trial(Among other things) through Irish.

That judgement was based on Article 38 of the Constitution. Article 38 has not been changed. An Act of the Oireachtas cannot change the Constitution. AS of now a person who desires to can give evidence in Irish but this evidence must be translated for the benefit of those jurors who cannot follow it ( typically the majority of any jury). Only a small proportion of Judges can and do conduct cases through Irish. There was a judge in Donegal for a number of years recently who could not conduct cases through Irish, this in a county with a Gaeltacht area. No sane defendant if he had Irish would use it under those conditions, language act or not.

deise go deo

Jo King wrote: »

That judgement was based on Article 38 of the Constitution. Article 38 has not been changed. An Act of the Oireachtas cannot change the Constitution. AS of now a person who desires to can give evidence in Irish but this evidence must be translated for the benefit of those jurors who cannot follow it ( typically the majority of any jury). Only a small proportion of Judges can and do conduct cases through Irish. There was a judge in Donegal for a number of years recently who could not conduct cases through Irish, this in a county with a Gaeltacht area. No sane defendant if he had Irish would use it under those conditions, language act or not.

That judgment has nothing to do with the fact that any person has the right to use Irish in their trial, and they have the right to be facilitated to do so, the service they receive has to be as good as that provided through English. Anything needed to facilitate their choice of Language is to be provided and can not put the person choosing to use Irish at a disadvantage.

People can conduct their business in the courts through Irish is they choose to.

SC024

Yes its dead, No sense wasting money flogging a dead horse We should just stop teaching it, stop printing state papers in irish and Good Riddance. Put it in a museum

deise go deo

SC024 wrote: »

Yes its dead, No sense wasting money flogging a dead horse We should just stop teaching it, stop printing state papers in irish and Good Riddance. Put it in a museum

Would you care to back up that assertation with evidience? If Irish really is dead, surly you can prove (or at least show some evidence) that its dead.

Do you know what a dead language is?

nisior

Irish is not dead. I speak Irish on a daily basis. I'm lucky for it to be my first language. Because I had 2 languages at such a young age I picked up French and German no bother in Secondary.
What I think needs to happen is (if you have Irish everyday at school) that there should be 3 days of spoken Irish a week and 2 classes of Irish Literature. You don't need to know all the grammar. I have no idea about the grammar to be honest, just speak what you know.
It really saddens me when people just think you're silly because you're in love with your native language and culture. A few people that live with my boyfriend (from Mayo) are so nasty about it. Other random people I meet around Galway are asking me questions about my irish (I don't bring it up, my name is in Irish so when I introduce myself they ask about it).

nisior

SC024 wrote: »

Yes its dead, No sense wasting money flogging a dead horse We should just stop teaching it, stop printing state papers in irish and Good Riddance. Put it in a museum

I think i've met you....

Bhoy_

I can barely speak Irish, but I love to string a few sentences when I'm on holidays or especially when I'm visiting relatives in the States.

I wouldn't call it dead at all, especially with loads of teenagers going to Gaeltachts.

Jo King

deise go deo wrote: »

That judgment has nothing to do with the fact that any person has the right to use Irish in their trial, and they have the right to be facilitated to do so, the service they receive has to be as good as that provided through English. Anything needed to facilitate their choice of Language is to be provided and can not put the person choosing to use Irish at a disadvantage.

People can conduct their business in the courts through Irish is they choose to.

It has everything to do with it. If you are chatged with rape and are arraigned tomorrow, you will not be able to insist on a jury of fluent Irish speakers. You will have a jury with a small percentage of fluent speakers of Irish and if you give evidence in Irish , it will have to be translated for the benefit of the jury. It would be absolutely stupid to gamble a life sentence on the quality of the translation. You will have difficulty securing lawyers of the requisite calibre and experience who can take your instructions in Irish and who can conduct the case in Irish.
You will have a very restricted number of judges who can conduct the trial in Irish and if you ultimately appeal to the Supreme Court you will find that there are not enough judges who can hear your proceedings in Irish.
Even if you are charged with a road traffic offence in the District Court the chances of getting a guard who has taken his notes in Irish is minuscule. The chances of getting a judge with adequate Irish are slim.
Language Act or not, the service available to a person who wishes to conduct business in the courts through Irish is second rate.

Krusader

Jo King wrote: »

It has everything to do with it. If you are chatged with rape and are arraigned tomorrow, you will not be able to insist on a jury of fluent Irish speakers. You will have a jury with a small percentage of fluent speakers of Irish and if you give evidence in Irish , it will have to be translated for the benefit of the jury. It would be absolutely stupid to gamble a life sentence on the quality of the translation. You will have difficulty securing lawyers of the requisite calibre and experience who can take your instructions in Irish and who can conduct the case in Irish.
You will have a very restricted number of judges who can conduct the trial in Irish and if you ultimately appeal to the Supreme Court you will find that there are not enough judges who can hear your proceedings in Irish.
Even if you are charged with a road traffic offence in the District Court the chances of getting a guard who has taken his notes in Irish is minuscule. The chances of getting a judge with adequate Irish are slim.
Language Act or not, the service available to a person who wishes to conduct business in the courts through Irish is second rate.

To join the bar you must pass a test in Irish to show that you could facilitate such a scenario, irish isn't very formal in the way it is spoken, you don't have to use big words to try and sound smart in it,
To sound smart in Irish it's all about idiom

Jo King

Crosáidí wrote: »

To join the bar you must pass a test in Irish to show that you could facilitate such a scenario,

Since when?

There used to be a test which was a joke. Art Cosgrove, former provost of UCD, who had fluent Irish refused to take it, on account of it being such a farce, and the test was subsequently abolished.

deise go deo

Jo King wrote: »

It has everything to do with it. If you are chatged with rape and are arraigned tomorrow, you will not be able to insist on a jury of fluent Irish speakers. You will have a jury with a small percentage of fluent speakers of Irish and if you give evidence in Irish , it will have to be translated for the benefit of the jury. It would be absolutely stupid to gamble a life sentence on the quality of the translation. You will have difficulty securing lawyers of the requisite calibre and experience who can take your instructions in Irish and who can conduct the case in Irish.
You will have a very restricted number of judges who can conduct the trial in Irish and if you ultimately appeal to the Supreme Court you will find that there are not enough judges who can hear your proceedings in Irish.
Even if you are charged with a road traffic offence in the District Court the chances of getting a guard who has taken his notes in Irish is minuscule. The chances of getting a judge with adequate Irish are slim.
Language Act or not, the service available to a person who wishes to conduct business in the courts through Irish is second rate.

I am not arguing about the jury, Anyone can choose to use Irish in court if they want to and have the right to a service as good as the service they would get if they chose English. The court system has to facilate them and their language choice.

As for the point about lawyers, Dlí agus Gaeilge UCC

ALPI

Dr. Baltar

I haven't read entirely through this thread but I just want to make a simple point about this.

Is Irish a dead language?

No it's not, although, if things aren't changed it will start dying at a faster rate than it is at the moment.

Should Irish be compulsory in school?
In Primary school and all the way up to the Junior Cert I think yes, but having compulsory Irish in the leaving cert is ridiculous. Subjects should be provided for the economy that we are placed into. If I want to do a course on English or Maths I do not see what relevance Irish has to that.
Furthermore, compulsory Irish makes people hate the language more.

Make it voluntary, and dear God! Change the structure of it so that it can become a language that we can SPEAK. My Irish is ok on paper. It's terrible in words!

deise go deo

Dr. Baltar wrote: »

Is Irish a dead language?

No it's not, although, if things aren't changed it will start dying at a faster rate than it is at the moment.

Irish isent dying. The Gaelthachts are more or less stable(The Larger Gaelthachts have Declined very slightly over the last ten years and the smaller weaker gaelthachts have grown slightly over the last ten years)

Outside the Gaelthacht the language is growing, this can be seen in the expantion of the Gaelscoile movement over the last 30 years.

Krusader

deise go deo wrote: »

Irish isent dying. The Gaelthachts are more or less stable(The Larger Gaelthachts have Declined very slightly over the last ten years and the smaller weaker gaelthachts have grown slightly over the last ten years)

Outside the Gaelthacht the language is growing, this can be seen in the expantion of the Gaelscoile movement over the last 30 years.

The problem is ordinary folk can't see this increase on the ground level, many don't know about the leaps and bounds Irish has come on in the North aswell. The language needs a focal points in large urban areas like the Cultúrlanna in Belfast/Derry. Because Irish isn't apart of the social/business lifes they tend to think it is dying

deise go deo

Crosáidí wrote: »

The problem is ordinary folk can't see this increase on the ground level, many don't know about the leaps and bounds Irish has come on in the North aswell. The language needs a focal points in large urban areas like the Cultúrlanna in Belfast/Derry. Because Irish isn't apart of the social/business lifes they tend to think it is dying

Thats the problem, Lack of visibility, Most people dont know what is going on around them with regards tha Language, And then just assume that nothing is going on. They dont see it because they are not looking for it.

Centers like An Cultúrlann would be great, Hopefully there will be one built in Dublin in the not too distant future. It would be great to have a Gaelthacht Quater in Dublin like in Belfast and Derry.

Static Jak

I don't think it's "dead" but I honestly can't say it's very popular or has a real use outside of general pride for the language/culture.
I'd much rather see Irish as a choice rather than mandatory. If I was back in school, I'd rather have used those Irish classes to learn the likes of French, German or other languages that I could find useful in the future.

deise go deo

Static Jak wrote: »

I don't think it's "dead" but I honestly can't say it's very popular or has a real use outside of general pride for the language/culture.

It is actually quite popular, the Gaelscoil movement has grown very rapidly over the last 30 years, Irish Societies in Third Level Instutions are growing year on Year. (UCD has 2000 members in their Cumann Gaelach)
Every survey conducted into peoples attuide to the Languages has returned a very positive result.

As for its usefullness, There are many jobs available that require Irish, And the list is growing.

I'd much rather see Irish as a choice rather than mandatory. If I was back in school, I'd rather have used those Irish classes to learn the likes of French, German or other languages that I could find useful in the future.

You did have the option to do French or German etc,(At least most schools offer a Forighn language) Irish is far more usefull in this country than French or German or any other second language.

I for one dont measure someones oppertunities by the list of Countries they can emigrate to, and For someone staying here they are by far more likely to use(or have the oppertunity to use) Irish in later life than any other second language.