Is Irish a dead language?

Jim236

I'm talking about culture here, of which the education system, the weather, and the dole are not a part.

So again, without the Irish language, what separates us from Britain culturally?

Iwasfrozen

Jim236 wrote: »

I'm talking about culture here, of which the education system, the weather, and the dole are not a part.

So again, without the Irish language, what separates us from Britain culturally?

To be honest not a lot. But then given our history and the proximity of our islands, that's not surprising.

gimme5minutes

Jim236 wrote: »

I'm talking about culture here, of which the education system, the weather, and the dole are not a part.

So again, without the Irish language, what separates us from Britain culturally?

Hey the Yanks and the British both speak English, I suppose that means they have the same culture too? And the Mexicans must have the same culture as the Spanish? Great logic there.

Godge

deise go deo wrote: »

The money spent by the state(Public Expenditure) is less than 1 billion, that includes everything. Now when you think that is less than 2% of the national budget, and there are 4% of the population who actually use Irish as a regular part of their lives(Not to mention the majority of the rest of the population who support the language), I think it is a bit silly to moan about a disproportionate amount of money being spent on Irish. If anything Irish speakers are subsidizing English language services.


I doubt there is any subsidy paid to people who produce text books, Why would there be? They have a guaranteed market equal to that in any other subject taught in our schools.

I love coming back to this thread for a good laugh at the ludicrous arguments put forward to support the Irish language industry.

Why should any of the budget be spent on promoting either language? Arguing that it should be 4% because 4% speak the language is like saying 30% of the budget should be given to Rupert Murdoch because 30% of the population have satellite dishes. Or the budget should be split between various car companies depending on which models are the best-sellers. How about dividing up the whole budget according to which team people support? Should I be allowed split my bit between my Premier League team in soccer and my county team in GAA. On second thoughts would have to only go to Irish teams. How about dividing up the budget based on what type of art you like? This sort of complaint that even though 4% speak the language, only 2% of the budget goes on Irish is so funny when you extrapolate it to other cultural issues.

On the other point, there is no need for an open subsidy to be paid to people who produce text books. There is already a huge hidden subsidy, (wondering out loud whether text book manufacturers donate to FF?). By allowing for textbooks as workbooks, it means that unless a book is filled in only with grey pencil (how boring for a six-year-old) it cannot be used again so the textbook makers sell another one next year. When you add in constant minor syllabus changes at second level (every three years to fit in with the cycles), with chapters shifted around in the book to make it impossible to use the previous edition, there is no need for a subsidy to textbook manufacturers. But that is really for another thread.

Godge

Jim236 wrote: »

I'm talking about culture here, of which the education system, the weather, and the dole are not a part.

So again, without the Irish language, what separates us from Britain culturally?

Joyce, Beckett, both Yeats, Wilde, Eamon Coughlan, Ronnie Delaney, The Dubliners, Roddy Doyle, The Dubs, U2, The Rubber bandits, The Chieftains, The Kilfenora Ceili Band, Moving Hearts, Horslips, Thin Lizzy, Sharon Shannon, Paul McGrath, Johnny Giles, Barry McGuigan, Father Ted, Fair City, Brendan O'Carroll, World Cup 1990, Brian O'Driscoll, Brian Cody, Mick O'Dwyer, these are just a little sample of the cultural differences between us and our larger neighbour

Thing is, you don't need a word of Irish to appreciate all of the above as embodiments of Irish culture. It is time that the Irish language took a step back and realised that it is only a small part (and not an essential one) of what it takes to be Irish.

deise go deo

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

That's not what you wrote in your definition, you wrote.

Polish and Lithuanian are traditionally used by nationals of this state and the group is a smaller one to that of english speakers. So by your definition they are minority languages.

"regional or minority languages" means languages that are:

traditionally used within a given territory of a State by nationals of that State who form a group numerically smaller than the rest of the State's population.

Has Polish Been traditionally used within this state?:rolleyes:

Why isn't it? It meets the ciriteria of the definition you presented.

No It dident.
Here is some clarification for you.

European Charter on Minority Languages

it does not include either dialects of the official language(s) of the State or the languages of migrants;

I'm sure they are. But I'm also sure they would class it themselves as a language and would like some government support. And hell I'd much rather see my tax euros go to the disabled then gravy train Gaelgeoirs.

Gravy train Gaelgoirs? Name calling is for the primary school playground, not serious political discussion.:rolleyes:

• Yeah they do, read back over you'r definition and tell me Polish and Lithuanian don't fit it.

Done.

• Lol, If I knew how many illegal immigrants were in the country I'm sure the government would be very interested in hearing from me.

And you think we should be spending money on providing services for illegal immegrants over providing services in our own National Language? Nice for you, Think i'll pass.:rolleyes:

• Not what, who. De Valera.

When did DeV use Terror to further his objectives? Link?:rolleyes:

When you have a reasonable point to make let me know, till then,

Slán Leat

deise go deo

Godge wrote: »

I love coming back to this thread for a good laugh at the ludicrous arguments put forward to support the Irish language industry.

Why should any of the budget be spent on promoting either language? Arguing that it should be 4% because 4% speak the language is like saying 30% of the budget should be given to Rupert Murdoch because 30% of the population have satellite dishes. Or the budget should be split between various car companies depending on which models are the best-sellers. How about dividing up the whole budget according to which team people support? Should I be allowed split my bit between my Premier League team in soccer and my county team in GAA. On second thoughts would have to only go to Irish teams. How about dividing up the budget based on what type of art you like? This sort of complaint that even though 4% speak the language, only 2% of the budget goes on Irish is so funny when you extrapolate it to other cultural issues.

Not really, The vast majority of the population want the Irish language to be supported by the state. As it happnes, the state also supports many other cultural activities too. 4% of the population use Irish as a regular part of their lives, Why should the state force them to use English.

And by the way, I dident come up with that, people have been moaning that the Irish language is supported disproportunatly to the ammount of speakers, That isent true, but you had to wait till that is pointed out to go on your little rant.

Jim236

gimme5minutes wrote: »

Hey the Yanks and the British both speak English, I suppose that means they have the same culture too? And the Mexicans must have the same culture as the Spanish? Great logic there.

Where did I say that? I said the Irish language is one of the only things that makes us different from Britain, and if you take that away theres really nothing there.

America has plenty to differentiate itself from Britain culturally. We don't, and thats my point.

Jim236

Godge wrote: »

Joyce, Beckett, both Yeats, Wilde, Eamon Coughlan, Ronnie Delaney, The Dubliners, Roddy Doyle, The Dubs, U2, The Rubber bandits, The Chieftains, The Kilfenora Ceili Band, Moving Hearts, Horslips, Thin Lizzy, Sharon Shannon, Paul McGrath, Johnny Giles, Barry McGuigan, Father Ted, Fair City, Brendan O'Carroll, World Cup 1990, Brian O'Driscoll, Brian Cody, Mick O'Dwyer, these are just a little sample of the cultural differences between us and our larger neighbour

Thing is, you don't need a word of Irish to appreciate all of the above as embodiments of Irish culture. It is time that the Irish language took a step back and realised that it is only a small part (and not an essential one) of what it takes to be Irish.

If you'd read my post above you'd see I mentioned GAA and traditional music. And granted we've some great bands and great writers to be proud of.

But some of the other examples you've given are completely laughable. World Cup 1990? Apart from the fact 90% of the team were English, how did an international tournament 20 years ago contribute to our culture? And Fair City.....really? Fair City?! I mean if thats all we have to differentiate ourselves from Britain, then there really is no hope for us.

The point is the Irish language is what makes us really stand out from Britain, and without it we're just seen as the same.

eddyc

Jim236 wrote: »

If you'd read my post above you'd see I mentioned GAA and traditional music. And granted we've some great bands and great writers to be proud of.

But some of the other examples you've given are completely laughable. World Cup 1990? Apart from the fact 90% of the team were English, how did an international tournament 20 years ago contribute to our culture? And Fair City.....really? Fair City?! I mean if thats all we have to differentiate ourselves from Britain, then there really is no hope for us.

The point is the Irish language is what makes us really stand out from Britain, and without it we're just seen as the same.

And why should we need to stand out from Britain? This sounds like a cultural inferiority complex.

deise go deo

eddyc wrote: »

And why should we need to stand out from Britain? This sounds like a cultural inferiority complex.

As shocking as this might sound, I agree with you.

Irish dose mark us out as different to Britain, But so what, I dont think many people really care about that, its just a thing in the background that dosent really make any difference.

Irish is of value, not because it marks out who we are different from, But because it is part of who we are as a people. It forms a large part of our heritage, The vast majority of familys in this country were Irish speaking only a few Generations ago. Irish is a link to our Past, But is also a resourse for our future. Ireland has the potential to become a bi-lingual country, Something that would be very benifical to us as a people, Irish is the best way to do it.

MiseEireannach

Godge wrote: »

Joyce, Beckett, both Yeats, Wilde, Eamon Coughlan, Ronnie Delaney, The Dubliners, Roddy Doyle, The Dubs, U2, The Rubber bandits, The Chieftains, The Kilfenora Ceili Band, Moving Hearts, Horslips, Thin Lizzy, Sharon Shannon, Paul McGrath, Johnny Giles, Barry McGuigan, Father Ted, Fair City, Brendan O'Carroll, World Cup 1990, Brian O'Driscoll, Brian Cody, Mick O'Dwyer, these are just a little sample of the cultural differences between us and our larger neighbour

Thing is, you don't need a word of Irish to appreciate all of the above as embodiments of Irish culture. It is time that the Irish language took a step back and realised that it is only a small part (and not an essential one) of what it takes to be Irish.

Gaeilge is a small part but an important part of our culture. Interesting you should mention the Rubberbandits in your list Godge as they are pretty adept at communictaing as gaeilge. Listen to 2 excellent interviews they did with Radio na Life - an sort gaeilge a thugadh spreagadh do daltaí agus blas nua-aimsearatha a chur ar an teanga.

http://soundcloud.com/rnl/rubberbandits

Jim236

deise go deo wrote: »

As shocking as this might sound, I agree with you.

Irish dose mark us out as different to Britain, But so what, I dont think many people really care about that, its just a thing in the background that dosent really make any difference.

Irish is of value, not because it marks out who we are different from, But because it is part of who we are as a people. It forms a large part of our heritage, The vast majority of familys in this country were Irish speaking only a few Generations ago. Irish is a link to our Past, But is also a resourse for our future. Ireland has the potential to become a bi-lingual country, Something that would be very benifical to us as a people, Irish is the best way to do it.

I'm looking at it from a tourists perspective. If a tourist in China perceives Ireland to be just the same as Britain, where do you think they're gonna go? I'm not saying we should all speak Irish so the tourists can come and gawk at us, I'm just making the point it benefits us to be different from our neighbour, not just when it comes to language, but in every way.

It wasn't that long ago that Irish MEPs used to speak French just so that they would be seen as different from the British MEPs.

Michael Collins himself once said if Britain had been a republic, Ireland would've become a monarchy, because for the Irish it was more about being different to Britain that mattered than having a true republic.

deise go deo

Jim236 wrote: »

I'm looking at it from a tourists perspective. If a tourist in China perceives Ireland to be just the same as Britain, where do you think they're gonna go? I'm not saying we should all speak Irish so the tourists can come and gawk at us, I'm just making the point it benefits us to be different from our neighbour, not just when it comes to language, but in every way.

It wasn't that long ago that Irish MEPs used to speak French just so that they would be seen as different from the British MEPs.

Michael Collins himself once said if Britain had been a republic, Ireland would've become a monarchy, because for the Irish it was more about being different to Britain that mattered than having a true republic.

Fair Enough, I just dont see Being Different to Britain as an Important point in terms of the Merit of the Irish language. Irish people are different to British people, That is true in any language.

But Irish is our language, its part of who we are as a people.

Godge

Jim236 wrote: »

If you'd read my post above you'd see I mentioned GAA and traditional music. And granted we've some great bands and great writers to be proud of.

But some of the other examples you've given are completely laughable. World Cup 1990? Apart from the fact 90% of the team were English, how did an international tournament 20 years ago contribute to our culture? And Fair City.....really? Fair City?! I mean if thats all we have to differentiate ourselves from Britain, then there really is no hope for us.

The point is the Irish language is what makes us really stand out from Britain, and without it we're just seen as the same.

Thought it would get a reaction if you were a cultural snob. Wasn't sure whether it was Roddy Doyle, Moving Hearts, Father Ted, Fair City or the footballers that would set you off. Was thinking of including Jedward or Johnny Logan as well but that might have made it obvious. I could give a few hundred examples of our cultural differences (Yorkshire pudding versus bacon and cabbage?) but I think they would be lost on you.

Were you here for World Cup 1990? You would have to be at least over 35 to appreciate the difference it made to the nation as you would have to have been aware of the experiences of the 1980s. World Cup 1990 was a mass cultural event ranking up there with the Pope's visit in 1979. They are the only two events I know that stopped the country in my lifetime. Stuttgart 1988 was a lesser phenonemon as many did not realise what had been achieved while USA 1994 and since had a taste of been there, done that, what's the fuss? By the way, would like to see you step up to some of them and tell them they are not Irish. Would have an ambulance standing by.

The point I am making and it is lost on the Irish language fanatics just as it is lost on the Comhaltas Irish traditional music fanatics and other traditionalists is that there is so much more to being Irish than the small little place (the 4% place) that they put Irish into. We have an ongoing rich cultural heritage and we don't need to rely on one aspect be it the Irish language, sean-nos singing or Peig to set us apart from our neighbours. It is a sign of immaturity and lack of self-confidence that we have to step back and rely on those minority aspects of our culture to differentiate ourselves.

We have Riverdance, we have the Diaspora, we have U2 and the Corrs, we have The Secret of Kells, we have Dublin humour and Kerry wit and yes, we also have the Irish language. Together they make us Irish. If we are relying on the Irish language to make us Irish then this thread shouldn't be about whether the Irish language is dead but whether Irishness is at a dead end.

Godge

MiseEireannach wrote: »

Gaeilge is a small part but an important part of our culture. Interesting you should mention the Rubberbandits in your list Godge as they are pretty adept at communictaing as gaeilge. Listen to 2 excellent interviews they did with Radio na Life - an sort gaeilge a thugadh spreagadh do daltaí agus blas nua-aimsearatha a chur ar an teanga.

http://soundcloud.com/rnl/rubberbandits

I am not saying the Irish language is not a part of our culture. I am saying our culture is so much bigger than that. Some of my other examples were adept at communicating as gaeilge but that did not define them, nor does it define the Rubberbandits.

deise go deo

Godge wrote: »

I am not saying the Irish language is not a part of our culture. I am saying our culture is so much bigger than that. Some of my other examples were adept at communicating as gaeilge but that did not define them, nor does it define the Rubberbandits.

Intresting you should include them in your argument. The Rubberbandits are playing a concert in Trinity Collage for their Seachtain na Gaeilge today.

They are also working on releasing a song called Róisín as Gaeilge.:)

deise go deo

Godge wrote: »

The point I am making and it is lost on the Irish language fanatics just as it is lost on the Comhaltas Irish traditional music fanatics and other traditionalists is that there is so much more to being Irish than the small little place (the 4% place) that they put Irish into. We have an ongoing rich cultural heritage and we don't need to rely on one aspect be it the Irish language, sean-nos singing or Peig to set us apart from our neighbours. It is a sign of immaturity and lack of self-confidence that we have to step back and rely on those minority aspects of our culture to differentiate ourselves.

And the point that is lost on you is that Irish is growing and is in the Big place(the 93% place) in terms of people who want it to be preserved and promoted. Irish is spoken by a minority but supported by the vast majority.

Jim236

Godge wrote: »

Thought it would get a reaction if you were a cultural snob. Wasn't sure whether it was Roddy Doyle, Moving Hearts, Father Ted, Fair City or the footballers that would set you off. Was thinking of including Jedward or Johnny Logan as well but that might have made it obvious. I could give a few hundred examples of our cultural differences (Yorkshire pudding versus bacon and cabbage?) but I think they would be lost on you.

Cultural snob? Thats a bit rich coming from you when you don't even support preserving the Irish language.

Godge wrote: »

Were you here for World Cup 1990? You would have to be at least over 35 to appreciate the difference it made to the nation as you would have to have been aware of the experiences of the 1980s. World Cup 1990 was a mass cultural event ranking up there with the Pope's visit in 1979. They are the only two events I know that stopped the country in my lifetime. Stuttgart 1988 was a lesser phenonemon as many did not realise what had been achieved while USA 1994 and since had a taste of been there, done that, what's the fuss?

I'm not disputing the boost Italia 90 gave to the nation, I'd have been too young to appreciate it, but I don't see how it could be considered part of Irish culture? Hosting the Special Olympics in 2003 was also a huge moment for our country and the closest we'll ever come to hosting the actual Olympics, yet I wouldn't consider it part of our culture. It was a one-off event.

Godge wrote: »

By the way, would like to see you step up to some of them and tell them they are not Irish. Would have an ambulance standing by.

Get over yourself, they were a bunch of English footballers with Irish grannies.

Godge wrote: »

The point I am making and it is lost on the Irish language fanatics just as it is lost on the Comhaltas Irish traditional music fanatics and other traditionalists is that there is so much more to being Irish than the small little place (the 4% place) that they put Irish into. We have an ongoing rich cultural heritage and we don't need to rely on one aspect be it the Irish language, sean-nos singing or Peig to set us apart from our neighbours. It is a sign of immaturity and lack of self-confidence that we have to step back and rely on those minority aspects of our culture to differentiate ourselves.

I dunno what kinda person you think I am lol, but I'm an average Joe from Dublin, I'm anything but traditionalist, and definitely not some trad music fanatic or sean nós singing lover, but I can still appreciate Irish culture and the part the Irish language has played in the evolvement of our culture and identity.

Godge wrote: »

We have Riverdance, we have the Diaspora, we have U2 and the Corrs, we have The Secret of Kells, we have Dublin humour and Kerry wit and yes, we also have the Irish language. Together they make us Irish. If we are relying on the Irish language to make us Irish then this thread shouldn't be about whether the Irish language is dead but whether Irishness is at a dead end.

No doubt there are several things that make us different from our neighbours, and I never argued otherwise, but the Irish language is one of the main things that makes us seen to be different. The kind of differences you talk about are differences you can find in any city, is that enough to justify independence though?

And before yeh go off on one, I'm not saying we shouldn't be independent. I also don't need a lecture on the different aspects of Irish culture, I'm well aware of them and would be able to name more than the pathetic list you've given (still can't get over Fair City lol), I'm just making the point that there are a number of things that make us, as a nation, different to Britain, and among them is the Irish language. That alone IMO is reason enough to preserve it.

eddyc

deise go deo wrote: »

But Irish is our language, its part of who we are as a people.

Irish is a language from Ireland that some people speak and some don't, its usage has shaped our present culture along with a myriad of other things. Saying something like "it is 'our' language" you would think we all spoke it, which we don't. I don't even know what "its is a part of who we are as a people" means.

RandomName2

Jim236 wrote: »

How can you even compare Irish to Polish, Chinese or Lithuanian?

Unlike any of them, the Irish language is indigenous to this island. Its our native language ffs, have a bit of f***in respect for it.

Whatever some people on here might like to think, the Irish language is a huge part of our culture and identity. You hear it in music, its part of the GAA, you see it on the signs, you see it in media, its part of pop culture. Its what makes us different and without it, our country would be nothing more than a Little Britain.

First, the question must be asked WHY must we make efforts to distinguish ourselves culturally from others? Moreover, if you think having a language that no-one speaks is the only thing that distinguishes us from anybody else then that either says little about your culture, or your perception of it.

I have respect for the language, but the converse is not true. It discriminates against those who do not learn it.

I would not be allowed into third level education in my area if I had not learned Irish. You can say 'well what about all the Irish speakers forced to learn English?'. Well, you can say it but no matter what you do with the statement you can't make it sound anything but idiotic.

Thus, Deise Go Deo states that those who choose to speak Irish are not fairly represented in the budget (and probably otherwise) and I say that they are vastly overrepresented.

I am wondering - do doctors have to learn Irish? Strictly speaking, as public servants they should not be employed without that minority language. But that would be intensely silly, I suppose.

RandomName2

Jim236 wrote: »

No doubt there are several things that make us different from our neighbours, and I never argued otherwise, but the Irish language is one of the main things that makes us seen to be different. The kind of differences you talk about are differences you can find in any city, is that enough to justify independence though?

Look - the justification for independence is NOT because we have a different culture (and certainly not because 4% of our population speaks Gaeilge). It is to do with representation (whereby the parliament that makes laws for the Irish has 100% Irish representation).

You didn't have the United States saying 'oh we have to make native American languages official languages of the state in order to justify our independence'. Actually, talking of which, the US has no official language.

Cú Giobach

Godge wrote: »

The point I am making and it is lost on the Irish language fanatics just as it is lost on the Comhaltas Irish traditional music fanatics and other traditionalists is that there is so much more to being Irish than the small little place (the 4% place) that they put Irish into.

So because I like speaking Irish and I also play Irish trad music I am a "fanatic" and the fact that those things don't make me Irish is lost on me.
Hmmm.... me thinks you are making an unsubstantiatable negative generalisation, based on your own stereotypical view of people who engage in these activities.
What makes me Irish is the fact I was born and reared in Ireland.
I could spend the rest of my life speaking Spanish and playing nothing but Peruvian mountain music and I will remain as Irish as I am now.

Daniel S

Do you guys think it would be better to keep English as our main language, or slowly convert back to Irish? Personally, the one thing that gets me is being called English. I mean this in an ideal sort of way.

RandomName2

deise go deo wrote: »

Has Polish Been traditionally used within this state?:rolleyes:

Has Gaeilge been traditionally used in Leinster in the last 200 years?

Though you are right that MOST eastern Europeans here are non-citizens, are you sure that those who are Irish citizens (notwithstanding that all of them share European citizenship with us - which is why they are allowed come here in the first place) do not outnumber Irish speakers in Ireland?

Jim236

RandomName2 wrote: »

First, the question must be asked WHY must we make efforts to distinguish ourselves culturally from others? Moreover, if you think having a language that no-one speaks is the only thing that distinguishes us from anybody else then that either says little about your culture, or your perception of it.

And if you think language plays no part in a nation's culture and identity, it says a lot about you and how little you know of the subject.

Also tens of thousands of people use Irish everyday, hundreds of thousands use it regularly and nearly 2 million have at least some knowledge of the language. So you saying noone speaks Irish doesn't actually make it true. As has been pointed out to you a number of times in this thread - Irish is a living language.

RandomName2 wrote: »

I have respect for the language, but the converse is not true. It discriminates against those who do not learn it.

Bullsh*t. You have shown nothing but contempt for the language in this thread, and your disregard for the language in your comment above is just one example of that.

RandomName2 wrote: »

I would not be allowed into third level education in my area if I had not learned Irish. You can say 'well what about all the Irish speakers forced to learn English?'. Well, you can say it but no matter what you do with the statement you can't make it sound anything but idiotic.

Both are official languages of the state, so you should be able to get into college with either language.

RandomName2 wrote: »

Look - the justification for independence is NOT because we have a different culture (and certainly not because 4% of our population speaks Gaeilge). It is to do with representation (whereby the parliament that makes laws for the Irish has 100% Irish representation).

You didn't have the United States saying 'oh we have to make native American languages official languages of the state in order to justify our independence'. Actually, talking of which, the US has no official language.

I never said it was the only reason but it definitely was one of the reasons. If you want to disagree, fine, you're entitled to your opinion.

RandomName2

Jim236 wrote: »

It wasn't that long ago that Irish MEPs used to speak French just so that they would be seen as different from the British MEPs.

Are you serious.:eek: If this is true it is the most embarrassing thing I have heard since I learned that the IMF was moving in.

Being different for the sake of being different is divisive, backward and irrational ( I believe that nationalism should be understood and accommodated, but deliberately encouraging it is seriously ill-judged.)

Why should the real important aspects of our nationhood (in relation to the manner in which our democracy works and in relation to our subservience to European law) should command so little attention whilst piddling things (like Gaeilge as a banner of national identity) should maintain such a focus frankly strikes me as bizarre.

RandomName2

Jim236 wrote: »

And if you think language plays no part in a nation's culture and identity, it says a lot about you and how little you know of the subject.

Your definition of 'living' leaves a lot to be desired, but I'll let that stand as 'how long is a piece of string?' comes to be applied in the context.

Gaeilge certainly has a part to play in the culture of our country - I never said otherwise (although I might have stipulated that it's contribution was merely historical ).

Sure it has aided our culture - but our culture is not a sacred cow, it is merely part of who we are. We cannot put a tiny fraction of it, put it on a pedestal and say: ' all else must come second to this'.

ALL CHILDREN MUST LEARN EVERY WORD OF ULYSSES OFF BY HEART !!!!

Well, you can say it, but it mightn't be a great idea.

Jim236 wrote: »

Bullsh*t. You have shown nothing but contempt for the language in this thread, and your disregard for the language in your comment above is just one example of that.

I have shown contempt for the language by saying QUOTE: 'I have respect for the language, but the converse is not true. It discriminates against those who do not learn it.'

If I do not learn this language (which nobody uses) I would not be allowed into University College Dublin, I would not be allowed teach (ANYTHING!), I would not be allowed become a Guard, I would not be allowed to become a public servant (office job or otherwise), I don't think I would be allowed even become a fireman!

So I would say that your assessment of the situation is 'Bullsh*t'.

Focalbhach

RandomName2 wrote: »

If I do not learn this language (which nobody uses) I would not be allowed into University College Dublin, I would not be allowed teach (ANYTHING!), I would not be allowed become a Guard, I would not be allowed to become a public servant (office job or otherwise), I don't think I would be allowed even become a fireman!

Bolded part not true.

That notwithstanding, to suggest that you need Irish to become a public servant is blatantly untrue.
So is the suggestion that you would not be allowed to teach.
So is the suggestion that you could not become a Garda (who need an Ordinary Level D3 in two languages, one of which must be English or Irish).
So is the suggestion that you would not be allowed to become a fireman.

A little less hysteria, please.

deise go deo

Leto wrote: »

Bolded part not true.

That notwithstanding, to suggest that you need Irish to become a public servant is blatantly untrue.
So is the suggestion that you would not be allowed to teach.
So is the suggestion that you could not become a Garda (who need an Ordinary Level D3 in two languages, one of which must be English or Irish).
So is the suggestion that you would not be allowed to become a fireman.

A little less hysteria, please.

Maith Thú,

Some people seam to take the approach when gathering information that if its about Irish and its negative then it must be true .:rolleyes:

So RandomName2, Would you care to retract the following?

'I have respect for the language, but the converse is not true. It discriminates against those who do not learn it.'