España -v- Germany, Wed 7:30pm RTE & ITV HD

#15

Warper wrote: »

Puyol is better than every English defender. The only one you could make a case for being better would be Ashley Cole.

I half agree with you.

Rio Ferdinand produced a masterclass in 2008. That season was better than any that Puyol has produced.

That said, Puyol has performed at a high level for longer than Rio has.

the_monkey

Spain will win this one.

110% certain.

They will narrowly win and it will be undeserved but they will win nonetheless, like Nadal's undeserved win in Wimby his country will
rob the World Cup...

ArmaniJeanss

I wanted a Spain victory at the start of the competition but now I'd be rooting for a Germany victory in the semi-final.
Its nothing against Spain as such, they just haven't inspired and excited me.

OPENROAD

Really really hoping Germany win this match and win it well.

missingtime

the_monkey wrote: »

Spain will win this one.

110% certain.

They will narrowly win and it will be undeserved but they will win nonetheless, like Nadal's undeserved win in Wimby his country will
rob the World Cup...

the_monkey

OPENROAD wrote: »

Really really hoping Germany win this match and win it well.

I do too, but unfortunately, all things Spanish seemed to have been giving a devine touch this year...

-edit why do I cheer against Spain ?

well try living here for a few years and listen to the CRAP by the media, for instance according to the commentators
after the Portugal game Spain had won the world cup ....

efb

Why isn't Deutschland in the title? Or is there a theme?

_Bella_

the_monkey wrote: »

I do too, but unfortunately, all things Spanish seemed to have been giving a devine touch this year...

Hey Germany won the Eurovision

OPENROAD

_Bella_ wrote: »

Hey Germany won the Eurovision

Have to say I did like that German girl

Bodhisopha

End of the line for the Germans. They have been a revelation in this world cup, i have enjoyed their performances and it will be sad to see them go.

efb

Germany just need A Little Peace of luck...

ultain

Warper wrote: »

Puyol is better than every English defender. The only one you could make a case for being better would be Ashley Cole.

If puyol had Cole's legs he'd be power-house for the Spanish (I seem to be developing a fixation with legs)

efb

If he'd Walcott's he'd be faster, but wouldn't be able cross for sh1t

ultain

Bodhisopha wrote: »

End of the line for the Germans. They have been a revelation in this world cup, i have enjoyed their performances and it will be sad to see them go.

ah ha!!...reverse psychology;)..surely?

ultain

efb wrote: »

If he'd Walcott's he'd be faster, but wouldn't be able cross for sh1t

sad but true.

_Bella_

As a German supporter I'm quite worried that Spain are doing the same as Italy in 2006. Italy managed to get just enough luck and produced just about enough to win each game. I hope it doesn't happen. Germany will struggle as they probably wont be able to control the midfield. Mueller missing is a big blow and I'm worried that it will prove very costly. Mueller had pace while also covered the left back position if Lahm ventured foreward. Who knows if his replacement will be up for it. Hopefully Torres will start . The Spanish defence has not looked impressive but they will be weary by now of what the Germans can do on the counter. I am confident that if Germany can get the first goal they will win it as they can protect and then counter like they have done in the last two games. If its 0-0 at 60 mins I will be worried and if the Spanish go ahead we will see what this German side is made of.

Loew has proved so far that he is a tactical genius. I predict 2-1 victory Germany.

redout

Bodhisopha wrote: »

End of the line for the Germans. They have been a revelation in this world cup, i have enjoyed their performances and it will be sad to see them go.

I spat my water on the screen reading that.

Cheers brother

Oat23

Just keep underrating the Germans, it's great.

redout

Oatesy23 wrote: »

Just keep underrating the Germans, it's great.

I dont know what you are talking about - most posters on the thread seem to think or want Germany to win.

ultain

redout wrote: »

I dont know what you are talking about - most posters on the thread seem to think or want Germany to win.

Well i for one would like to see Germany win so we can have really good final (as far as history goes anyway) plus i dont fancy Holland against a jazzy Spain, I think if anyone the Netherlands might be the next best tactical team to the Germans left in the tournament. That whole Germanic mentality an all. (No offence meant)

Oat23

redout wrote: »

I dont know what you are talking about - most posters on the thread seem to think or want Germany to win.

I wasn't responding to the people here. Germany have been underrated in every knockout game so far, I just want it to continue .

kinaldo

the_monkey wrote: »

Spain will win this one.

110% certain.

They will narrowly win and it will be undeserved but they will win nonetheless, like Nadal's undeserved win in Wimby his country will
rob the World Cup...

What a strange comment. How exactly did Nadal not deserve to win Wimbledon despite winning it convincingly?

kinaldo

redout wrote: »

I think that your argument is weak.

Saying that Barca and Spain have weak defences is just the same old excuse people use to knit-pick with when they they cannot find anything else. One of the most common sayings in football is that your attack is your first form of defence.

Spain have conceded twice in the tournament - one attributed to a goalkeeping error and the second a wicked deflection off Pique which changes the shot from right corner to left corner. No team is yet to actually score a proper goal against them as yet but still they are supposedly weak.

If they are as weak as you make out then enlighten us as to why a free flowing Chile side couldnt score a proper goal nor could the Portuguese, Hondurans or the Paraguayans ?

The thing you mention about a brand of arrogance stems from bitterness and petty hatred to be honest and is not that much dissimilar to the hatred which Man Utd and their fans receive in British football. If fans cant feel confident and express their views about their team then there is something fundamentally wrong. I see fans of English clubs on this forum expressing what you call arrogance regularly by saying that their club will win the league, champions league or that we will beat this team. A case of double standards to be honest.

Beating three of the bigger English teams over the past couple of seasons has seen this bitterness and resentment grow.

The evidence is right here on this forum - go back to 2008 and there is practically none shown whatsoever - fast forward after Barca win every competition and do it in style by defeating two of the bigger english clubs along the way and the amount shown on the forum miraculously just explodes - funny coincidence that.

The better teams the world over always seem to split fans - on one side you will have those that are bitter and on the other you have those who adore and appreciate it.

I would tend to agree with this.

Anyway, football fans are about as fickle as the RTE pundits, a few good games against shambolic and overrated opposition, and all of a sudden Germany are world beaters. They forget that this Spanish side has beaten all before them over the last 3 years, at club level as well, and have only recently been winning while playing badly (and almost as good as with 10 men). Surely that is more of a sign of champions.

I don't underestimate this German side, before the tournament I predicted them to get to the semis or final, but I can't see past Spain. It's too hard to see Villa not scoring, not to mention having Fabregas on the bench or starting, and Muller out suspended.

¡Viva España!

OPENROAD

kinaldo wrote: »

football fans are about as fickle as the RTE pundits,

What :eek::eek: "the pundits that tell it like it is"

Pepe LeFrits

Come on Germany!

#15

Agree with the above post by kinaldo

Despite both teams being excellent, someone will come along and post about the loser of the semi-final: they were found out

No they weren't, they were just beaten by a better team.

/Pre-emptive mini-rant over/

PS Auf geht's Deutschland!!

CorkMan

#15 wrote: »

Agree with the above post by kinaldo

Despite both teams being excellent, someone will come along and post about the loser of the semi-final: they were found out

No they weren't, they were just beaten by a better team.

/Pre-emptive mini-rant over/

PS Auf geht's Deutschland!!

....after the semi-finals

Bill O Herlihy: Well John, what did you think of the quality of the whole world cup as a whole, and in particular, the semi-final we have just seen.

Johnny Giles: Back in my day.....

Boskowski

Well if from here on in is going to be a reflection of what we have seen in the CL then Spain will go out next and Holland will beat Germany.

Spanish footie still up there looking the best but having lost the edge, the hunger just a tad. The Germans rising but not quite there yet and a big time Dutch contribution in the CL final with their playmaker winning the trophy.

Of course while that may sound good it means sfa.

On a serious note...this will be Germanys biggest test. Again different tactics will be required as this is the strongest midfield they're playing so far. This one could be for the connaisseur as I'm looking forward to see how we're going to attempt to neutralize the spanish midfield. Spain will have to become more clinical to punish the german defense. They won't be allowed to feckarse around our box for 67% posession like with their other opponents. Spanish defense won't be as rocksolid as widely predicted I'd say our breaks will shake them up quite a bit.
Anything is possible from a narrow Spanish win to another stormer by Germany.

carlop

Really looking forward to this match.

I don't really get the hate for Spain, they play great football, or at least try to, and they are undoubtedly quality. They have stuttered a bit by their own high standards, but they are in the semi-finals on merit.

Villa has been sensational, not only is he banging them in, but they have nearly all been lovely goals. More ominous for the Germans, Iniesta is beginning to reach top gear.

As for the Germans, I never thought I would like a German side as much as I like this one. They play in a very refreshing, exciting manner and there appears to be a great team spirit running through the side.

They have played the best football of this tournament, and seeing Mueller shake the referees hand at the end of the Argentina match, despite the fact his poor decision means Mueller will miss arguably the biggest match of his career (along with the CL final), captured the spirit in which they've gone about things.

At the start of the tournament if someone asked me who I'd want to win in a semi-final between Germany and Spain there would only ever have been one answer, but this German side has won me over and I'll be supporting them on Wednesday.

Whether they'll do it or not I have no idea. Form suggests they should, but Spain are a cut above England and the tactically clueless Argentina. I really don't know what way its going to go, though I have a sneaking suspicion Spain will sneak it.

carlop

Boskowski wrote: »

On a serious note...this will be Germanys biggest test. Again different tactics will be required as this is the strongest midfield they're playing so far. This one could be for the connaisseur as I'm looking forward to see how we're going to attempt to neutralize the spanish midfield. Spain will have to become more clinical to punish the german defense. They won't be allowed to feckarse around our box for 67% posession like with their other opponents. Spanish defense won't be as rocksolid as widely predicted I'd say our breaks will shake them up quite a bit.
Anything is possible from a narrow Spanish win to another stormer by Germany.

I was going to mention how Germany are finally coming up against a midfield that doesn't contain a clearly unfit player (Barry) or one that is tactically retarded (Argentina). Given that both had more possession than Germany, I think Spain, with Xavi and co and their incredible ball retention could nudge over the 60% mark possession wise, the question is can they use it?

Germany have already shown that they can destroy a team despite having less of the ball. They seem to always make the right decision when on the ball, always making the right pass.

Boskowski

What's bugs me a bit tho and I'm not accusing you of it in particular. Everytime we've done something cool they all coming out saying after 'ye but the others were out of form tactically bad shocking defense plain sh1te whatnot'.The way these discussions are going I could see it happen that Germany wins the world cup going through England, Argentina, Spain and Holland and someone will come out and say ah sure they had it easy Ireland would have beat those they were shocking/shambolic or whatever the negative flavour of the week word is.
Every team has weaknesses. I think we have been just very good at exposing these.

An Citeog

Boskowski wrote: »

What's bugs me a bit tho and I'm not accusing you of it in particular. Everytime we've done something cool they all coming out saying after 'ye but the others were out of form tactically bad shocking defense plain sh1te whatnot'.The way these discussions are going I could see it happen that Germany wins the world cup going through England, Argentina, Spain and Holland and someone will come out and say ah sure they had it easy Ireland would have beat those they were shocking/shambolic or whatever the negative flavour of the week word is.
Every team has weaknesses. I think we have been just very good at exposing these.

The strengths are there for all to see. It's just that people love finding the weaknesses and the faults and it's not just Germany either. Anyway, they've been absolutely superb this world cup. They've won a lot of admirers because of the way they play and the attitude of the player. I think the best compliment you can give them and Jogi Löw is that the team is greater than the sum of its parts.

keano_afc

Hopefully del Bosque will pick the right team, unlike Maradona. Spain were a completely different side when Fabregas came on and Villa went up top. He has to start with Fab and Iniesta where Villa was on the left to have any chance.

redout

Albiol trained yesterday no problems and Del Bosque and has said that Torres is the focal point of their attack but he is not untouchable - read into that what you will.

I reckon he will start but that comment certainly leaves the door open.

_Bella_

According to the castrol index Spain are 60% more to likely to win

Vyse

I think it's very hard to call a game at this stage of the World Cup. I wouldn't even want to call the Uraguay v Holland game. Could go either way.

DubDani

According to the german coach Khedira has trained and will be fit for the Spain match.

carlop

Boskowski wrote: »

What's bugs me a bit tho and I'm not accusing you of it in particular. Everytime we've done something cool they all coming out saying after 'ye but the others were out of form tactically bad shocking defense plain sh1te whatnot'.The way these discussions are going I could see it happen that Germany wins the world cup going through England, Argentina, Spain and Holland and someone will come out and say ah sure they had it easy Ireland would have beat those they were shocking/shambolic or whatever the negative flavour of the week word is.
Every team has weaknesses. I think we have been just very good at exposing these.

Germany have been awesome, I was just pointing out a common weakness in two of their opponents, but hammering England and Argentina is a massive achievement and I didn't intend taking anything away from them.

SlickRic

i honestly think this is Germany's.

although i like Spain, the have not hit gear properly at all, and as they say, you can't switch it on and off like a tap. Germany are in the zone, and Spain's style suits them down to the ground. Spain will probably keep it narrow, try to play through them, thus not stretching the German CBs, and so not exposing that weakness.

i see Germany hitting Spain on the break like they have every other team so far. Puyol, Pique and Busquets will have to be at their best to keep them out in the form they're in.

in saying all this, class is also permanent, and Spain are absolute top quality. they could very easily 'turn it on' suddenly, but my gut is telling me Germany, simply because of the form they're in and the fact Spain's style suits them IMO.

3-2 Germany in a cracking game.

Sir Gallagher

Does anybody know what bars in town(Dublin) are getting behind Germany or Spain for the match? I want to go in a catch a game before its over.

What options to Germany have considering Mueller is going to miss this one?

Warper

Spain need to drop Torres for this. They cant afford to carry him against top opposition like Germany. If they drop him they have a chance, if they play him they will lose. Del Bosque needs to stand up now.

DubDani

Sir Gallagher wrote: »

Does anybody know what bars in town(Dublin) are getting behind Germany or Spain for the match? I want to go in a catch a game before its over.

What options to Germany have considering Mueller is going to miss this one?

It looks as if they will replace Mueller with 20 year old Toni Kroos from Bayern (was on loan at Leverkusen last season).

redout

Talk that Silva or possibly Cesc will replace Torres.

eagle eye

redout wrote: »

Talk that Silva or possibly Cesc will replace Torres.

I think thats very unlikely. I think Spain will play Villa and Torres but if Torres goes I think Llorente will come on. Villa is playing as a wide forward they need somebody up top in the middle. I doubt they are worried about possession as this German team is not set up to hold possession, they used the ball quickly.

redout

eagle eye wrote: »

I think thats very unlikely. I think Spain will play Villa and Torres but if Torres goes I think Llorente will come on. Villa is playing as a wide forward they need somebody up top in the middle. I doubt they are worried about possession as this German team is not set up to hold possession, they used the ball quickly.

Well there is several Spanish media outlets all reporting the same story so we will see how it goes - Llorente also mentioned.

Warper

I like the idea of playing Silva. Lahm is Germany's most experienced defender and captain. Push Villa into the middle and Silva take on Lahm.

Just heard there on Newstalk, Graham Hunter reckons Silva was forbidden to sort out his transfer during the WC and this is why Del Bosque wont play him now. Seems pretty stupid by Silva.

Boskowski

Hoping for a cracking match, touch and go stuff. I think this one has all the right ingredients for it.
Here the fresh new challengers with their stylish play (still can't believe that's us actually) and on the other hand the classy and now matured number one seed probably still not at their peak.
Before the tournament there was little doubt that any serious contender would eventually have to meet Spain. Spain proved such expectations right.
Germany will have to find another gear yet again as the test gets more difficult with every match. So far we passed all our tests with full marks but you're just waiting for the Nationalmannschaft to find their match. I think Spain will be that match and they may be more than that, too

For me this is definitely match of the tournament. Getting pretty nervous about it now. Hoping of course for what could be an epic final.

parker kent

CorkMan wrote: »

....after the semi-finals

Bill O Herlihy: Well John, what did you think of the quality of the whole world cup as a whole, and in particular, the semi-final we have just seen.

Johnny Giles: Back in my day.....

I'm really fed up of posts like this. Giles was raving about how well the Germans played against England and Argentina. He did mention some issues about the vulnerability they can have at the back which is a fair point but otherwise he was full of praise. Giles and Brady are consistent in what they say. Just because they do not jizz their pants over every modern day player does not mean they think they are all useless either.

Anyway...I really hope Germany win the tournament as it would be a victory for running football the right way. I put up an article here a few months ago about how well the Bundesliga is run and this success would vindicate the many steps they have taken to prevent their league having the problems that have severely dented the Italian league and national team (yes I know they won the last World Cup but a league winning team with no Italians, poor attendances and a dearth of young talent are big issues). The English would do well to copy the German model.

DazMarz

Spain are just making their way along slowly but surely, waiting for the time when they really have to turn it on. Class is most definitely permanent, and the talent the Spanish have on offer will most definitely mean they will always have a chance in any game they play.

Spain have no option now but to truly show the world what they are capable of, and then some. If they play the similarly languid stuff they've been playing thusfar and only show the same flashes of brilliance that they've shown so far, the Germans could easily punish them.

Muller, who has really found his feet this tournament!, will be sorely missed, but Klose is hitting sublime form now and with the likes of Khedeira, Ozil, Schweinsteiger and Podolski feeding through into the box and all also well capable of scoring themselves, the German attack must not be underestimated.

This is shaping up to be an absolute cracker all told; two teams who are both old powers but who also have plenty of young guns in the squad.

This is, however, painfully familiar territory for the Germans; this will be Spain's first ever World Cup semi-final. The little bit of national psychological advantage may take over. But then again, these are more or less the same sides that met in the Euro 2008 final. Will the Spanish look to repeat that success? Or will the Germans be thirstier for revenge?

I personally can see the Germans shading it, they just look that bit sharper, more ruthless and are in far better form. 2-1 or possibly even 3-1 to Germany.

Spaniards to also get frustrated when things don't go their way and one of them to pick up a 2nd yellow for an ill-timed lunge at a German who does the theatrics expertedly...

redout

Report that Germany plan to smother Xavi, Iniesta and Villa - what else is new!

Parguay had 2/3 on Villa and Xavi everytime they touched the ball.

Growing belief that Cesc will play instead of Torres with Villa moving central up front on his own for this game.

One thing is for sure - every outlet in Spain reckons there is a big chance of a change in lineup with Torres making way for either Cesc, Llorente or Silva.

If it does happen my money is on Cesc - its obviously to counter the German midfield were they have shown to be strong and break with Speed.

EDITS: reports Cesc could need an injection also.