Straight guys going to gay clubs

mrDerek

Outa curiosity do gay guys get offended when straight guys go to gay bars?
iv been to a few gay bars and from my experience iv been well received but i doubt they know im straight. i tend to enjoy myself in gay places because its less a tense athmosphere than yer usual fitszimons etc. and i prefer to talk to people without fearin they think i have a "hookin up" agenda and if i talk to a girl in qbar etc they tend to think i wna bang them ( which sometimes i do but thats a dif story)

TylerIE

This arose recently for me... An acquaintance started chatting to a guy in the smoking room of a gay venue. The guy said "I take it your gay", said he was straight and pretty much stormed off looking disgusted.

I dont think its an issue so long as one doesnt take major offence if another guy takes an interest in you that would be broadly similar to the interest you might take in a girl in a straight club... Doesnt mean you have to reciprocate but dont be disgusted!

On a personal level Id almost prefer that straight people stayed away... The first few nights I went on the scene I was being chatted up by girls - way more than it would have happened me in straight venues :P

Zillah

It's fine. If a guy starts taking an interest maybe drop a hint like "I'm just here with a friend" so he doesn't get his hopes up or anything. Straight people go to gay bars all the time, accompanying gay friends if nothing else.

PeterIanStaker

I'm straight and I've been to gay bars loads of times. Don't see a problem at all.

If some stereotypical straight jock type gets offended at being asked if he was gay while in a gay bar, (of all places!) then he needs to grow a brain (which wont happen:))

Chuchoter

I sound like an ignorant cow, but you have any number of your own clubs to go to. Can't we have one place on earth where we don't have to fall for straight people?

Aard

Straight guys going to gay-bars is great; it reduces the ghettoisation of the gays, and - to a greater or lesser extent - tones down the ambient level of campness of the venue.

Links234

crayolastereo wrote: »

I sound like an ignorant cow, but you have any number of your own clubs to go to. Can't we have one place on earth where we don't have to fall for straight people?

LGBT people can go to regular pubs and clubs too, they're not straight-only places. If an establishment excluded gay customers, you'd be rightly pissed. I don't see any problems with straight people in gay clubs.

Chuchoter

Links234 wrote: »

LGBT people can go to regular pubs and clubs too, they're not straight-only places. If an establishment excluded gay customers, you'd be rightly pissed. I don't see any problems with straight people in gay clubs.

I know, my only argument is that like pantibar is a gay place, thats its niche market, and you'd like to assume everyone there was gay. A normal pub doesn't really have a niche market, its just a pub for everyone. I'm not saying they shouldn't be allowed to come....me personally I'd just rather if they didn't.

Penisland

crayolastereo wrote: »

I sound like an ignorant cow, but you have any number of your own clubs to go to. Can't we have one place on earth where we don't have to fall for straight people?

Is this a real opinion?? If so, it is incredibly narrow minded! Its like me saying gay people cant go to straight clubs, can we not have one place that we dont have to see gay people!

Wonder how that would go down with you :rolleyes:

PeterIanStaker

crayolastereo wrote: »

I sound like an ignorant cow, but you have any number of your own clubs to go to. Can't we have one place on earth where we don't have to fall for straight people?

No worries, next time my LGBT friends invite me to the George or Front Lounge for a pint, I'll refuse, citing your post. I'm sure they'll understand.

Chuchoter

I'm sure once I stop being angry at straight people for being assholes to me all the time, I'll change my mind....currently my opinion is no more than pissed off prejudice. I'm not going to claim its any more than that.

Links234

crayolastereo wrote: »

I'm sure once I stop being angry at straight people for being assholes to me all the time, I'll change my mind....currently my opinion is no more than pissed off prejudice. I'm not going to claim its any more than that.

Are the straight people who are being assholes to you all the time the same straight people who accompany their friends to gay bars?

PCPhoto

crayolastereo wrote: »

I'm sure once I stop being angry at straight people for being assholes to me all the time, I'll change my mind....currently my opinion is no more than pissed off prejudice discriminatory. I'm not going to claim its any more than that.

FYP

Seriously !! , I'm not gay - am I not allowed to post here because this is a LGBT forum ?

Chuchoter

Links234 wrote: »

Are the straight people who are being assholes to you all the time the same straight people who accompany their friends to gay bars?

They're the straight people who are really excited to have a 'gay best friend' while being afraid to sit anywhere near me in case I start hitting on them.

baby and crumble

^^^ Much anger I sense in you... Anger leads to hate... hate leads to suffering...

Most of my friends are straight. Why should I not be allowed bring my friends to a gay club, because "they have their own places"? What would happen if I couldn't go to 'their' bars, because i have 'a place of my own?'

That is exactly the kind of sentiment that was expressed during the civil rights struggles in the US. The 'blacks' had their own bars, so long as everything was kept separate it was grand. What next, a sign saying 'no straights' at the door of the george? Kinda similar to the 'no irish' signs... how about the suffragette movement, the women who fought for our rights to vote? They had many male allies, who helped push things forward. Peoples attitudes wont change until non-members of the 'oppressed' group join in and realise there's no difference, start telling their friends, show soldarity...

I find it deeply offensive and entirely hypocritical that you want full and equal rights to the people you seem to hate. I also find it appalling that in another thread you actually use the example of the civil rights struggle in the US to make a point you are now contradicting here.

Chuchoter

omg you're all acting like I go hunting straight people out of bars. I'm not being super serious. I'm just saying its irritating that in everyday life you end up liking straight people, it would be nice to have a few places where you could be assured you were at least the right gender and I know I'm not the only person who thinks that. In any case, is the idea of having a gay club not discriminatory in the first place any way if thats the logic we're going by? I mean a regular club doesn't cater to straight people specifically, but a gay club says we specifically cater to gay people.

baby and crumble

Well, to be fair, it's hard to read tone on here, and you do sound pretty serious...

LGiamani

Aard wrote: »

Straight guys going to gay-bars is great; it reduces the ghettoisation of the gays, and - to a greater or lesser extent - tones down the ambient level of campness of the venue.

Exactly so true and it gives us boys something to talk about plus the fact that straight guys are different. Where I work there is alot more women than men and the atomsphere can get tense when you throw in a few straight guys the women prefer it as there is more craic in the workplace so why not in the clubs

deirdre_dub

crayolastereo wrote: »

I'm just saying its irritating that in everyday life you end up liking straight people, it would be nice to have a few places where you could be assured you were at least the right gender

So let's be clear about something - you not only have a problem with straight people, you also have a problem with us transsexuals?

I mean a regular club doesn't cater to straight people specifically, but a gay club says we specifically cater to gay people.

A gay club doesn't cater for gay people - it is a club where the culture is a gay culture. Of course there is huge overlap between the two concepts, but they are actually different concepts.

The gay culture is, in case you didn't notice, one of diversity. Guess what - heterosexuality is part of human sexual diversity!!! There are many many heterosexuals who are really into diversity, including sexual diversity. I suggest that the reason why you (apparently) haven't met many of them is because they see a big chip on your shoulder, and so avoid you.

What you seem to be looking for is a place with a big sign on the door saying "only cisgendered gay men are allowed" so that you can be sure that everyone in the place is available to you? If that is where you are coming from, may I recommend a visit to a gay sauna?

Yesterday, I was with my brother and father in a ("straight") restaurant. They had to defend me against the idiocy of the manager, who refused to recognise my gender identity, causing me quite a bit of discomfort. It saddens and sickens me that, less than 24 hours later, I now find myself defending their right to join me for a drink in the Dragon (which they have both done on more than one occasion). I would have hoped that our community would be above all that.

As for the original question - as far as I am concerned, straight people who subscribe to the ethos of diversity are guests of honour in gay bars. Most of us don't have a choice but to subscribe to that ethos - they do have that choice, and they choose well.

Of course, a straight person who gets all in a huff when a gay person comes on to them doesn't really subscribe to that ethos. What should a straight person do when that happens? The same thing a gay person has to do when a straight person comes on to them!

TylerIE

deirdre_dub wrote: »

Yesterday, I was with my brother and father in a ("straight") restaurant. They had to defend me against the idiocy of the manager, who refused to recognise my gender identity, causing me quite a bit of discomfort. It saddens and sickens me that, less than 24 hours later, I now find myself defending their right to join me for a drink in the Dragon (which they have both done on more than one occasion). I would have hoped that our community would be above all that.


Of course, a straight person who gets all in a huff when a gay person comes on to them doesn't really subscribe to that ethos. What should a straight person do when that happens? The same thing a gay person has to do when a straight person comes on to them!

Sorry for going off topic but when the manager caused an issue did he apologize afterward? Does the equal status act provide any protection should a service provider discriminate on the grounds of gender identity?

I sympathise with crayolastereo's point, but think that you have put it well - a straight person who wont accept that people of their sex may express an interest and that they are expected to respond appropriately to same is not respecting the ethos of the establishment, and in those instances the person would be better perhaps staying away.

I certainly welcome straight people who go with friends to the gay pubs/clubs, but there are a number who go to "look at the queers" or for a "crazy night" or similar - and indeed one of the UK publications last month had an article on how the gay scene in one of the UKs big cities had turned into a tourist venue....

I even had a girl start provocatively dancing against me and grinding in one of the gay clubs - Im no prude but like whatever about doing that to a guy in a straight club, why when the guy is not interested, or going to be?

mrDerek

crayolastereo wrote: »

omg you're all acting like I go hunting straight people out of bars. I'm not being super serious. I'm just saying its irritating that in everyday life you end up liking straight people, it would be nice to have a few places where you could be assured you were at least the right gender and I know I'm not the only person who thinks that. In any case, is the idea of having a gay club not discriminatory in the first place any way if thats the logic we're going by? I mean a regular club doesn't cater to straight people specifically, but a gay club says we specifically cater to gay people.

i have a feelin that if you met me in the george or sumwer else youd speak to me with nothing but disdain in your voice =/

deirdre_dub

lst wrote: »

Sorry for going off topic but when the manager caused an issue did he apologize afterward? Does the equal status act provide any protection should a service provider discriminate on the grounds of gender identity?

Not only did the manager not apologise, he denied that anything had happened. However, I wasn't denied any product or service, so equal status acts don't come into it. What I was denied was my gender identity (he insisted on calling me "sir", in spite of the trauma I've been putting my body through over the past 9 months on HRT so that I can develop a feminine appearance - he even insisted on calling me "sir" directly after I had politely asked him if he wouldn't mind recognising my gender identity).

As for equal status acts - in general, they do apply, though on the grounds of gender, not gender identity. At least that's how I understand it. It is as if the law sees trans people as a gender all unto ourselves (and there are some trans people who would subscribe to that), and so gender discrimination applies.

I certainly welcome straight people who go with friends to the gay pubs/clubs, but there are a number who go to "look at the queers"

I don't think that is accepting the ethos of diversity either - it is making a circus out of it!

I even had a girl start provocatively dancing against me and grinding in one of the gay clubs - Im no prude but like whatever about doing that to a guy in a straight club, why when the guy is not interested, or going to be?

Sounds to me like my lecture on an ethos of sexual diversity fell on deaf ears.

If you don't like what someone is doing with you, by all means ask them to stop. But if you are in a place which has an ethos of sexual diversity, then you too can expect to have your notions of sexuality challenged, regardless of how small the sexual minority you are in is!!! Because no matter how small that minority is, you can bet that there is an even smaller one out there!!!!!

Sheesh.

TylerIE

deirdre_dub wrote: »

Sounds to me like my lecture on an ethos of sexual diversity fell on deaf ears.

If you don't like what someone is doing with you, by all means ask them to stop. But if you are in a place which has an ethos of sexual diversity, then you too can expect to have your notions of sexuality challenged, regardless of how small the sexual minority you are in is!!! Because no matter how small that minority is, you can bet that there is an even smaller one out there!!!!!

If I was to start dancing on top of a straight guy in coppers one night, and grinding on him, I would not be particularly surprised to get a punch... A girl who knowingly behaves in such a manner with a gay guy, knowing hes gay and doing so cause she knows she can get away with it as hes not gonna grope her, is hardly someone who is there to respect diversity.

If I did that to a girl in a "straight" club id likely be arrested!

Links234

deirdre_dub wrote: »

Not only did the manager not apologise, he denied that anything had happened. However, I wasn't denied any product or service, so equal status acts don't come into it. What I was denied was my gender identity (he insisted on calling me "sir", in spite of the trauma I've been putting my body through over the past 9 months on HRT so that I can develop a feminine appearance - he even insisted on calling me "sir" directly after I had politely asked him if he wouldn't mind recognising my gender identity).

Wow, what a complete asshole! That's absolutely awful. Was this before or after you had your meal? I would have stormed out and made it very clear that I would never return and advise my friends not to go there either.

What was the name of the place so I can avoid it in future?

TylerIE

deirdre_dub wrote: »

Not only did the manager not apologise, he denied that anything had happened. However, I wasn't denied any product or service, so equal status acts don't come into it. What I was denied was my gender identity (he insisted on calling me "sir", in spite of the trauma I've been putting my body through over the past 9 months on HRT so that I can develop a feminine appearance - he even insisted on calling me "sir" directly after I had politely asked him if he wouldn't mind recognising my gender identity).

Sorry didnt address this in original reply.

I would be much oblidged if you either PM'd me or write up the name of the venue as that behaviour is unacceptable.

I imagine that the restaurant should suffer the loss of at least a few "pink punts".

Furthermore I respectfully suggest that you follow up with trying to get the overall manager / owner.

I was getting poor service on a number of occasions in a restaurant that I used owing to its convenient location and appropriate menu for where I was based. A number of complaints went unheeded the the shift manager but eventually I got the general manager and in addition to a full apology from the owner, and a generous voucher, was also given the general managers mobile number in case of future issues.

rere

There is absolutely no reason why straight people shouldn't be in Gay bars.
It shows the changing attitude of society and as was mentioned earlier, lessens the ghettoisation of the LGBT community.
Hopefully in the years to come there'll be more and more of a crossover. I dont mean for Gay bars to go altogether, just more variety. The more customers there are the better things could be.

Basically I'm just looking forward to the day when I can sit in a nice quiet bar in the evening having a drink with my Girlfriend and feeling comfortable there, and excluding straight people wont make this happen faster.

Improbable

If you think about it in those terms, you're likely to walk down some very ugly paths. If straight people arent allowed into gay clubs and pubs are for everyone, then where does that leave straight people for their own venues? Should we set up bars and clubs that only let in straight people? Absolutely not, because not only is that extreme discrimination, could you imagine the furious uproar that would be rightly generated by LGBT rights groups?

billyjojason

Aard wrote: »

Straight guys going to gay-bars is great; it reduces the ghettoisation of the gays, and - to a greater or lesser extent - tones down the ambient level of campness of the venue.

Here-here, and don't forget straight gals either, straight couples too.

let all be welcome everywhere thats what i say

Dr. Baltar

Totally agree with the post above.
We are looking for equal rights, not better rights than straight people.

My opinion on straights in gay bars is simple. Enjoy your time here, have the craic, but if someone chats you up don't get angry/pissed off. You are in a gay bar after all.

deirdre_dub

lst wrote: »

If I was to start dancing on top of a straight guy in coppers one night, and grinding on him, I would not be particularly surprised to get a punch...

I don't think coppers have an ethos of sexual diversity.

A girl who knowingly behaves in such a manner with a gay guy, knowing hes gay

How did she know you are gay?

I hope you aren't going to say "because I was in a gay bar". Did it ever occur to you that maybe she was bisexual, and that she was hoping that you were too?!

If I did that to a girl in a "straight" club id likely be arrested!

Are you SERIOUSLY saying that she committed a criminal act against you?!

deirdre_dub

Links234 wrote: »

Wow, what a complete asshole! That's absolutely awful. Was this before or after you had your meal? I would have stormed out and made it very clear that I would never return and advise my friends not to go there either.

What was the name of the place so I can avoid it in future?

This is what I wrote on irishtrannie about the incident -

<snip> is a restaraunt on <snip> I used to go there a lot, and the Gemini Club Christmas party has been held there on, I believe, more than one occassion.

I was there tonight, with my brother and father. The first thing I noticed is that the menu has changed quite a bit, with my favorite dish no longer on the menu. I suspect the place is under new management.

Anyway, they cooked the wrong meal for me. I insisted on the meal I had ordered. When it arrived, I was told "sorry, sir".

When it came time to pay, I asked to see a manager. The person who was taking the money off us introduced himself as the manager. I mentioned that the wrong meal was given to me. I also said "I was called "sir" earlier on - I would appreciate if my gender identity were respected by the staff".

I cannot think of a reply that could have been more concentrated with offense.

"Why, sir?"

I kid you not.

My brother immediately picked up on "why", and my father immediately picked up on "sir". My Dad said "you don't speak to a lady like that"!

Then started the denials. "I called you "sir" and I called and you "sir"", he said, pointing to my brother and father. Suddenly I ceased to have ever existed.

The three of us left in disgust. I recommend avoiding like the plague.

As well as being upset at what happened, I cannot say how proud I am of my brother and father, and how priviledged I feel to have them in my life.

I would like to add to that report that, in fairness, the manager didn't seem to have a great command of english, so he may not have understood the phrase "gender identity". But he had enough of a command to know that what we were saying about him having called me "sir" in his "why, sir?" comment was true - yet he effectively denied it.