More Travellers Tales

bamboozle

my friend had a shot gut put in his face when he asked one lad to settle a bill for work he had carried out.

nuac

I have had a lot of experience with travellers exercising their nomadic culture by trespassing on others' property. Some OK, but many try to intimidate, be bribed to go away, or steal and damage property.

Not talking about an isolated incident or two - experiences going back over 30 years.

gurramok

Just have a look at all the giant boulders on the side of many roads to stop caravans making their home there.

It must be unique to this country as I have not seen such boulders in such numbers on the continent.

the_syco

billy the squid wrote: »

But is it because they are travellers or because they are marginalised.

No fixed abode goes against them no end.

billy the squid wrote: »

My point being that criminality is not a trait of being a traveller, but more the result of marginalisation.

That's crap. They choose to be marginalised by living in caravans in land they mostly do not own. It's either provided by the state, or they just pick a field, and camp there. If I tried that sort of stunt, the Gardai would be over fairly lively to tell me to move, as it's illegal, but somehow the travellers get away with it on a regular basis.

=-=

I wouldn't trust any crime stats to do with travellers. As said, many have walked free due to intimidation of witnesses. When they walk free, they would not be charged, and thus would not become a criminal stat.

Rojomcdojo wrote: »

Am I right in thinking that Billy is of traveler descent?

Who gives a flying f**k if he is?

T.W.H Byron wrote: »

Just curious, but has anyone on this thread every had any direct experience with travellers?

Yes.

Positive experience with them when growing up, as a group of travellers would stop in Leixlip, work in the fields, pubs, etc, and people would not fear them, and talk to them.

The ones who replaced them, and those that came until they blocked off the carpark to any and all people formed my negative opinion of them. Then posts had to line the roads, to stop them camping along the side of the road. And no, god forbid, could they move into the halting site down the road in Maynooth: sure, they didn't like the people living there now...:rolleyes: Yup, they'd much prefer to drive their northern reg cars, jeeps, etc, and live in their northern reg caravans on the side of the road.

Working in a cinema in Liffey Valley, I came across more itinerants. I'd use the k work personally, as these folk never travelled, but I'd get banned. I'd come across these folk on a regular basis, trying to steal goods, gain enterance without payment, etc. Now, some settled people would try this the odd time, but within a month of working there, I knew the "regular" itinerants who'd come in to cause havoc on a daily basis.

gandalf

You see this is the problem it is always the same ones causing problems. There is a travellers halting site close to us where a particular family caused all sorts of grief up until a year ago when they were moved on. It appears that they are now back and their youngest (who is a particularly nasty piece of work) was leading 4 of his friends in a game of kick the car in the car parking area for our apartments yesterday. When I called the Gardai they knew who he was and what they were doing and the officer on the phone said they had been chasing them for most of the day.

So basically these people are damaging our property and wasting Garda time and resources and we have to pay for the privilege of this happening. It has to end now. I think the time of paying for halting sites or accommodation is past. Let them pay for their property and pay taxes like the rest of us and if they have an income stream that cannot be identified audit them.

Does anyone know if they pay rent for their accommodation or not or is it provided free?

seamus

gandalf wrote: »

I think the time of paying for halting sites or accommodation is past. Let them pay for their property and pay taxes like the rest of us and if they have an income stream that cannot be identified audit them.

Well that would be my take on it too. Stop building halting sites, enact legislation that makes it illegal to camp/caravan on any land, public or private (including the side of the road), without the express permission of the land owner (provide a standard form to be filled out and registered with the local Garda station).

It should be possible to confiscate the caravan of anyone doing so, forcibly remove them from the land (make it an arrestable offence) and a minimum fine of €5k imposed, returning the caravan only when the fine is paid.

Then you construct a series of "halting sites" which are effectively caravan parks with running water, electricity outlets and a yearly rent of €10k, payable upfront and in full for all or part of any year. Only those presenting a valid tax clearance certificate can park their caravans in these public parks (private caravan parks are free to have their own rules). The €10k does not include waste disposal and the operator/council should be free to levy additional waste charges to travellers who create additional waste on these sites - confiscating/clamping the caravan as necessary until they've paid the additional charges.

If you want to live in a caravan and preserve your "culture", then you should pay for it like the rest of us. If you cannot afford to pay €10k in parking fees or a €5k fine, then stick yourself on the housing list and go get a job.

nuac

I agree with Séamus and others who have suggested that if nomadism is still to be exercised it should be regulated and paid for by nomadic travellers. The "Rathkeale Rovers" come around the West most years - using Knock as a base for trading activities. It is obvious from the modernity and value of their caravans, vans, SUVs etc that they could well afford to pay for their own halting sites.

But, Séamus, asking for Tax Clearance Certs??. These lads deal in cash - large wads of it being passed around amongst them. Accountants require tiresome items like vouchers, receipts, bank records etc before preparing the annual tax return. Tax Clearance certs are not yet part of travellers' famous "culture", altho anybody else dealing with public bodies has to produce a TCC each year.

Nijmegen

nuac wrote: »

I agree with Séamus and others who have suggested that if nomadism is still to be exercised it should be regulated and paid for by nomadic travellers. The "Rathkeale Rovers" come around the West most years - using Knock as a base for trading activities. It is obvious from the modernity and value of their caravans, vans, SUVs etc that they could well afford to pay for their own halting sites.

But, Séamus, asking for Tax Clearance Certs??. These lads deal in cash - large wads of it being passed around amongst them. Accountants require tiresome items like vouchers, receipts, bank records etc before preparing the annual tax return. Tax Clearance certs are not yet part of travellers' famous "culture", altho anybody else dealing with public bodies has to produce a TCC each year.

If things get that bad that we have the tinkers tarmacing the M50...

mikemac

nuac wrote: »

Tax Clearance certs are not yet part of travellers' famous "culture", altho anybody else dealing with public bodies has to produce a TCC each year.

And a Padre Pio sticker serves as a tax disc for your 4x4

I went to GMIT, Galway.
Walked past Hillside in Castlepark every morning, huge halting site.
It was later converted in modern housing with parking bays for caravans, realy very nice houses.

Never once did I have trouble from them, they'd salute me often.
But there were feuds going on between families and I passed many fights. For such a small community there are some amount of feuds!

Laminations

feelingstressed wrote: »

Never once did I have trouble from them.... I passed many fights

Interesting definition of trouble you have If I had neighbours settled or otherwise who never said boo to me but stood in the garden boxing the heads off each other in a domestic or 'feud' I'd consider that trouble.

mikemac

I suppose
They weren't my neighbours and it didn't involve me.
Let them kill each other I say

I was just walking through the area, my shortcut

FTA69

T.W.H Byron wrote: »

Just curious, but has anyone on this thread every had any direct experience with travellers?

Plenty. There were Travellers in the housing estate in Cork City I'm from, and there was a halting site nearby. I went to school with a number of Travellers and met a number of them via a boxing club. When I moved to London I also worked with Travellers and at one stage was doing jobs for a Traveller who owned a roofing company; the yard in which I worked in Hackney was adjacent to a halting site. As possible as it is to be, I was "friends" with a number of Travellers and regularly socialised with them, even so far as attending a couple of Christenings. Even today I come across a number of Travellers in one of my jobs. All in all, I've had vastly more personal experience with Travellers than most.

When I first moved to London I was 19 and knew nobody at all, it was a family of Travellers who began to introduce me to other people my age, bring me to see the GAA matches and even provided me with extra employment at the weekend at times; in other words I was shown great kindness by them.

Have I had difficulties with Travellers in the past? Yes I have. Have I ended up in scraps with Travellers who were utter tramps, again yes. Are there problems within their wider community with domestic violence, alcoholism and drugs? Yes, and many of the organisations that people deride here are doing great work in addressing that.

That having been said, the majority of Travellers are simply getting by, and are not some sort of inherently malevolent group of retrobates; hence why talk of "animals" and "subspecies" is simply a load of hateful, bigoted sh*t to be honest.

Laminations

FTA69 wrote: »

Plenty. There were Travellers in the housing estate in Cork City I'm from, and there was a halting site nearby. I went to school with a number of Travellers and met a number of them via a boxing club. When I moved to London I also worked with Travellers and at one stage was doing jobs for a Traveller who owned a roofing company; the yard in which I worked in Hackney was adjacent to a halting site. As possible as it is to be, I was "friends" with a number of Travellers and regularly socialised with them, even so far as attending a couple of Christenings. Even today I come across a number of Travellers in one of my jobs. All in all, I've had vastly more personal experience with Travellers than most.

When I first moved to London I was 19 and knew nobody at all, it was a family of Travellers who began to introduce me to other people my age, bring me to see the GAA matches and even provided me with extra employment at the weekend at times; in other words I was shown great kindness by them.

Have I had difficulties with Travellers in the past? Yes I have. Have I ended up in scraps with Travellers who were utter tramps, again yes. Are there problems within their wider community with domestic violence, alcoholism and drugs? Yes, and many of the organisations that people deride here are doing great work in addressing that.

That having been said, the majority of Travellers are simply getting by, and are not some sort of inherently malevolent group of retrobates; hence why talk of "animals" and "subspecies" is simply a load of hateful, bigoted sh*t to be honest.

I agree with all that and have said so myself that generalisations cannot be drawn from the sample of experience. However, talk of 'animals' and 'subspecies' to describe individuals who sh1t on skateboards or throw bags of p1ss at your head, or thieve and mug or beat and bash is apt. It only becomes inappropriate whan the labels are generalised and used as stereotypes. People have a right to feel angry at people (i.e. individuals) who've wronged them

FTA69

Laminations wrote: »

However, talk of 'animals' and 'subspecies' to describe individuals who sh1t on skateboards or throw bags of p1ss at your head, or thieve and mug or beat and bash is apt.

Of course it is. There are Travellers out there who are the most callous, sadistic b*stards you'd ever meet. Nobody is denying that. I've had serious issues with individual Travellers in the past. Similarly I've had serious issues with Bangladeshis as well. However I don't go around tarring all Pavees as utter scum and neither do I view every Bengali youth as a tramp.

It only becomes inappropriate whan the labels are generalised and used as stereotypes.

But those comments weren't directed at individuals, they were directed at an entire community i.e "subspecies" , "I hate Travellers", "the k word" etc.

the_syco

FTA69 wrote: »

But those comments weren't directed at individuals, they were directed at an entire community i.e "subspecies" , "I hate Travellers", "the k word" etc.

I use "the k word" to describe the travellers who don't travel, illegally camp, collect large piles of rubbish, and burn it, and only go when they're paid to do so. I gave up caring if they're just trying to live: if they park on the side of the road, and intimidate people, or camp in a car park, destroy the local spa, and hook up a cable for free electricity from the nearby trainstation, I call them "k"ers.

Fortuneately, the local county council have found a way to deal with them: drop a tonne of muck at the only entrance/exit for a few days, and when they remove it, the k'ers will have gone. They've done this a few times. The carpark is now blocked off from anyone.

I haven't met a traveller in a long long time. I think I've worked with ex-itinerants (he said he was settled), but I'm not sure: you live in a house, you'll look like eveyone else living in a house, and get treated like everyone else.

gandalf

I don't agree with the name calling like subspecies etc. They obviously are not. They are Irish citizens who appear to want the benefits of living in this society without paying for these benefits. It may only be a small number of trouble makers who are giving them a bad name but the travelling community have failed utterly to deal with these people and we are paying the cost.

Why should I be worried about whether my car is going to be damaged parked outside my home because of feral youths allowed to run riot because their parents don't respect the rule of law and because our authorities are scared to address it in case they are accused of "racism".

I certainly will not be paying any property tax as long as the Government are subsidising an element within our society who have no respect for other peoples properties or the rule of law.

Whyme

FTA69 wrote: »

Laminations wrote: »

But those comments weren't directed at individuals, they were directed at an entire community i.e "subspecies" , "I hate Travellers", "the k word" etc.

True I agree but it is very difficult to express my sentiments towards these people in any other way without giving offence to the PC brigade.
The simple fact of the matter is and my experiences aside the vast majority of people are uncomfortable in the presence of or near travellers and there is only one group of people who's fault this is and thats the travellers.

Laminations

Whyme wrote: »

True I agree but it is very difficult to express my sentiments towards these people in any other way without giving offence to the PC brigade.
The simple fact of the matter is and my experiences aside the vast majority of people are uncomfortable in the presence of or near travellers and there is only one group of people who's fault this is and thats the travellers.

You have misattributed that quote to me.

FTA69 I agree with you, but in defence of the_syco he used (or alluded to) the k word to describe a specific cohort of travellers with which he had direct unpleasant experience with - they stole from the cinema and caused troble.

In spite of that defence he then went on to describe all settled or non-nomadic travellers as k***kers which I completely disagree with. I would have more time for his argument if he reserved that moniker for anyone of any background who is a scummy little piece of filth.

Nodin

FTA69 wrote: »

Plenty. There were Travellers in the housing estate in Cork City I'm from, and there was a halting site nearby. I went to school with a number of Travellers and met a number of them via a boxing club. When I moved to London I also worked with Travellers and at one stage was doing jobs for a Traveller who owned a roofing company; the yard in which I worked in Hackney was adjacent to a halting site. As possible as it is to be, I was "friends" with a number of Travellers and regularly socialised with them, even so far as attending a couple of Christenings. Even today I come across a number of Travellers in one of my jobs. All in all, I've had vastly more personal experience with Travellers than most.

When I first moved to London I was 19 and knew nobody at all, it was a family of Travellers who began to introduce me to other people my age, bring me to see the GAA matches and even provided me with extra employment at the weekend at times; in other words I was shown great kindness by them.

Have I had difficulties with Travellers in the past? Yes I have. Have I ended up in scraps with Travellers who were utter tramps, again yes. Are there problems within their wider community with domestic violence, alcoholism and drugs? Yes, and many of the organisations that people deride here are doing great work in addressing that.

That having been said, the majority of Travellers are simply getting by, and are not some sort of inherently malevolent group of retrobates; hence why talk of "animals" and "subspecies" is simply a load of hateful, bigoted sh*t to be honest.

Well said Sir.

Laminations

Nodin wrote: »

Well said Sir.

Why? because his experience with travellers has been mostly positive and he has generalised this to 'the majority of travellers are just trying to get by'. I've had bad experiences as have many people but these can't be generalised. Likewise FTAs positive experiences can't be generalised.

FTA69

I use "the k word" to describe the travellers who don't travel, illegally camp, collect large piles of rubbish, and burn it, and only go when they're paid to do so. I gave up caring if they're just trying to live: if they park on the side of the road, and intimidate people, or camp in a car park, destroy the local spa, and hook up a cable for free electricity from the nearby trainstation, I call them "k"ers.

Reminds me of a speech I saw on TV being made by a Ku Klux Klan member explaining the difference between "n*ggers and black people". The fact is that knacker is an offensive word that is used to slur all Travellers, it isn't some sort of term you can use á la carte like.

I haven't met a traveller in a long long time. I think I've worked with ex-itinerants (he said he was settled), but I'm not sure: you live in a house, you'll look like eveyone else living in a house, and get treated like everyone else.

While Traveller culture is inherently shaped by nomadism, that isn't the sole determining factor. You can have third-generation Travellers who grew up in a house, likewise if I went around the place in a trailor that wouldn't necessarily make me an Irish Traveller.

FTA69

Why? because his experience with travellers has been mostly positive and he has generalised this to 'the majority of travellers are just trying to get by'. I've had bad experiences as have many people but these can't be generalised. Likewise FTAs positive experiences can't be generalised.

Mostly positive, but also some negative experience. As I said, I've had the world of trouble with some individual Travellers when I was a young teenager, and probably have been more on the recieving end of such activity than many of the crowd giving out on this thread.

The thrust of my point is that Travellers aren't some homogenously criminal entity; they're individuals, some of which are lovely, some of which aren't and some of which are out and out b*stards. However, the majority of them are normal enough, decent people. Hence why tarring them all as "animals" is bigoted nonsense.

aDeener

FTA69 wrote: »

Laminations wrote: »

Of course it is. There are Travellers out there who are the most callous, sadistic b*stards you'd ever meet. Nobody is denying that. I've had serious issues with individual Travellers in the past. Similarly I've had serious issues with Bangladeshis as well. However I don't go around tarring all Pavees as utter scum and neither do I view every Bengali youth as a tramp.



But those comments weren't directed at individuals, they were directed at an entire community i.e "subspecies" , "I hate Travellers", "the k word" etc.

christ man the word is knacker, its not a bad word. have you never heard of the knackers yard?

Byron85

aDeener wrote: »

FTA69 wrote: »

christ man the word is knacker, its not a bad word. have you never heard of the knackers yard?

Go up to a traveller and call them a kn***er then.

aDeener

T.W.H Byron wrote: »

aDeener wrote: »

Go up to a traveller and call them a kn***er then.

whats with the **? is it that naughty?

mate, i wouldnt go next or near a knacker let alone have some form of conversation with one

Byron85

aDeener wrote: »

T.W.H Byron wrote: »

whats with the **? is it that naughty?

mate, i wouldnt go next or near a knacker let alone have some form of conversation with one

Yes it is a rather derogatory term to use considering the context in which it's being used in this thread. Most of the posters in here are doing quite a good job of stereotyping an entire class of people based on anecdotal experiences and stories.

Keep tarring all you want though. :rolleyes:

FTA69

christ man the word is knacker, its not a bad word. have you never heard of the knackers yard?

It wasn't me who abreviated the word, rather it was 'the syco'. And if you don't think knacker is highly derogatory term when used toward Travellers then you obviously know very little about the subject.

As your man above said, use it around Travellers and see what reaction you'd get.

murphaph

FTA69 wrote: »

It wasn't me who abreviated the word, rather it was 'the syco'. And if you don't think knacker is highly derogatory term when used toward Travellers then you obviously know very little about the subject.

As your man above said, use it around Travellers and see what reaction you'd get.

What reaction would you get?

murphaph

murphaph wrote: »

What reaction would you get?

Saw one on an ad for their show on tv saying "it's the equivalent of calling a black person a n***er"

So... a very bad reaction

aDeener

murphaph wrote: »

What reaction would you get?

the same reaction you would get if you said nothing - a hiding.

honestly comparing it to nigger for black people is a bit much. next some of ye will be saying tinker is offensive :rolleyes: