Soccer Forum Ban - Has a precedent been set?

IvySlayer

Gordon wrote: »

I've reversed your profile infraction placed by T4TF, Archimedes but, as I said before, I feel the content was trolling and flame-baiting, so I've placed an infraction myself on your profile.

I don't think Mods should be infracting profiles*, profiles should be outwith forums and relating to the site as a whole, but this raises other issues.. The soccer forum rules are that thanking a post that is abusive should receive an infraction. But if that's the case then how do they infract? Hence the profile infraction. Just like when a Mod bans a user and gets the response "go f*ck yourself h*tler!" - they get a ban. So I think we should get our heads together (maybe even in feedforward!) with the soccer mods and admins and cmods about this kind of thing - how to deal with behaviour outwith the charter via methods other than on-thread posting.

*I think. We don't afair have this rule set in stone, but we don't not have it set in stone, as historically we have prevented/reversed mods from infracting profiles.

Does his ban on the Soccer Forum still count?

dr.bollocko

As a moderator your job is to moderate a forum not your private messages. There's a report a private message option. The reports go to admins only cos it ain't our place to act. OP was trolling the PMs. But it's not a moderators job to moderate their PMs. Infractions are for a post. There has to be a post for an infraction or a good reason for a profile infraction. Fair play Gordon on reversing it. The right call IMO. Lets hope this whole unfortunate incident can be ended with the ban being lifted.

Peyton Manning

Thanks for your help Gordon, I accept a broader, site-wide infraction if that's the case. That was my over-riding issue to begin with. How does this affect my standing on the soccer forum though? I presume overturning the soccer forum infraction and turning it into a profile infraction means I am now back down to 5 soccer forum infractions (one of which I intend to challenge at a later date) which means I can post again?

Gordon

copacetic wrote: »

I infracted a few profiles in my time Gordon (mostly to force a 10 infraction siteban on spammers with only a few posts), but also for the abusive PMs/ abusive posts that everyone has seen but later deleted by the user. I've seen it done a fair bit..

Spamfractions are fine obviously, abusive PMs should be reported, abusive posts that have been deleted.. well.. that's fairly rare I think, but something that deserves a process. But that process shouldn't, imo, be infracting a profile, but I'm up for discussion on that one, just like I'm up for discussion on soccer forum rules infracting a user for thanking an abusive post. Maybe we should allow those exceptions, but that's a discussion for a different thread.

Headshot

the admins have to have another look at the modding of the sf, how come no other sf mod is getting complaints like this

has to tell ye something

Dohnny Jepp

Headshot wrote: »

the admins have to have another look at the modding of the sf, how come no other sf mod is getting complaints like this

has to tell ye something

From being here 6 years and having 23 thousand posts you should know that this isnt the first time people went to feedback about a sf mod, nor will it be the last. It happens, sometimes its justified and sometimes it isnt! Not for me to judge if this case is or isnt though.

Gordon

Archimedes wrote: »

How does this affect my standing on the soccer forum though?

Mods are discussing it, bear in mind it's 11:30 on a Sunday night!

flahavaj

Would just like to pop in here and say that Archi is an excellent poster who brings a lot to the forum and I find I am more likely to click a thread if he has replied than if he hasn't. IMO (and I'm just a run of the mill poster) he has been very harshly dealt with. I don't think the infraction should have been given specific to the soccer forum as it was an offence carried outside the mods jurisdiction. The mod in question should have referred it to admins.

I find the over-eagerness of that mod to infract Archi and his somewhat gleeful little "that'd be six infractions yanno" comment a bit worrying. People in authority should handle themselve a little better tbh.

Le King

In my view, the infraction took place outside of the mods jurisdiction. However, he went and infracted Archi for it, as if it was posted on the Soccer Forum. If anything hasn't the mod broken rules here?

I think it's very clear what went on here and IMO the party involved here's position has become untenable. One of the most unpopular mods on the SF.

Fair play to Gordon, a bit of common sense was needed.

Jazzy

aye, gj gordon. i really cant see a reason hed be banned from soccer now

Xavi6

Headshot wrote: »

concerning my 6th yellow card and what the ex mod said

"Tbh I'm a bit annoyed cause I felt like I had dealt with the thread but someone decided to go over my hand and hand out the infraction"

you see, you went over a fellows mods head to get your boot in, but thats you all over

As requested by Headshot, I was the mod in question and yes, I was unhappy that someone went over my head without so much as a courtesy PM to explain why.

I'm not sure of the relevance of that here though.

eagle eye

Xavi6 wrote: »

As requested by Headshot, I was the mod in question and yes, I was unhappy that someone went over my head without so much as a courtesy PM to explain why.

I'm not sure of the relevance of that here though.

I think he wanted you to post that in his helpdesk thread maybe?

eagle eye

Osu wrote: »

In my view, the infraction took place outside of the mods jurisdiction. However, he went and infracted Archi for it, as if it was posted on the Soccer Forum. If anything hasn't the mod broken rules here?

I think it's very clear what went on here and IMO the party involved here's position has become untenable. One of the most unpopular mods on the SF.

Fair play to Gordon, a bit of common sense was needed.

Just leave it out man. Gordon has taken care of things, if they feel there is a problem with moderation I'm sure they will look at it. No need to put the boot in now.

curry-muff

Im sorry, I know this issue has been resolved by now on Archies count but not on an over all basis. The mod in question was clearly making his own clever ploy to tear apart the Man United forum by removing its two most prominent posters on the final day that a 6 month ban could possibly be placed, this cannot be ignored and swept aside as a 'human error'.

In my opinion this was fully intentional and should be dealt with accordingly, it is my own opinion that someone who is so biased against one group of people should not be moderating a diverse group who remain pacife for the most part.

Overheal

The thing is, If Archimedes had just let cooler heads prevail, waited for the CMod's response, opened up a Help Desk Thread, and followed the Dispute Resolution Procedure instead of launching another Soccer Feedback Clusterf@#k, he probably would have gotten it reversed anyway. There was no need for any of this.

Xavi6

Overheal wrote: »

The thing is, If Archimedes had just let cooler heads prevail, waited for the CMod's response, opened up a Help Desk Thread, and followed the Dispute Resolution Procedure instead of launching another Soccer Feedback Clusterf@#k, he probably would have gotten it reversed anyway. There was no need for any of this.

In fairness the DPR is, for want of a better phrase, a load of bollox.

If a poster has been wronged (I'm talking in general terms) it's often not worth their while bothering as most bans will be up by the time all the hoops are jumped through.

Overheal

Xavi6 wrote: »

In fairness the DPR is, for want of a better phrase, a load of bollox.

If a poster has been wronged (I'm talking in general terms) it's often not worth their while bothering as most bans will be up by the time all the hoops are jumped through.

The DPR is still pending a Feedforward Review at a later date. In the meantime, its what we've got.

Xavi6

Overheal wrote: »

The DPR is still pending a Feedforward Review at a later date. In the meantime, its what we've got.

I know you're heavily involved in that but the above is a bit of an 'Out of Office' type of response.

Something like this should really be given top priority IMO.

Overheal

Xavi6 wrote: »

I know you're heavily involved in that but the above is a bit of an 'Out of Office' type of response.

Something like this should really be given top priority IMO.

Im not disagreeing with you. Let me see about getting some of those discussions pushed up.

Headshot

Xavi6 wrote: »

As requested by Headshot, I was the mod in question and yes, I was unhappy that someone went over my head without so much as a courtesy PM to explain why.

I'm not sure of the relevance of that here though.

thanks xavi for that, but awhile after i pmmed ya i made a help desk thread so your right it probably doesnt have any relevance here

but thanks for that

RasTa

I've got banned for less

Boggles

Well done to Gordon for applying a bit of common sense.

One question though.

What happens the Mod in question who IMO deliberatly broke the rules and went out of his way to get a user infracted?

Surely this is against the "spirit of boards" or "the don't be a dick" rule?

dr.bollocko

Boggles wrote: »

Well done to Gordon for applying a bit of common sense.

One question though.

What happens the Mod in question who IMO deliberatly broke the rules and went out of his way to get a user infracted?

Surely this is against the "spirit of boards" or "the don't be a dick" rule?

OP, to be fair, also seemed to go out of his way to break the don't be a dick rule.

Boggles

dr.bollocko wrote: »

OP, to be fair, also seemed to go out of his way to break the don't be a dick rule.

Which he has been punished for.

_blank_

Boggles wrote: »

Well done to Gordon for applying a bit of common sense.

One question though.

What happens the Mod in question who IMO deliberatly broke the rules and went out of his way to get a user infracted?

Surely this is against the "spirit of boards" or "the don't be a dick" rule?

Let's call a spade a spade here.

T4TF is not going to be sanctioned. He's friendly with far too many of the right people for that to happen

homerjay2005

dr.bollocko wrote: »

As a moderator your job is to moderate a forum not your private messages. There's a report a private message option. The reports go to admins only cos it ain't our place to act. OP was trolling the PMs. But it's not a moderators job to moderate their PMs. Infractions are for a post. There has to be a post for an infraction or a good reason for a profile infraction. Fair play Gordon on reversing it. The right call IMO. Lets hope this whole unfortunate incident can be ended with the ban being lifted.

This post and indeed this thread, brings me to think about my own case.

i have been banned off the SF for over 2 years now over a PM. how do you propose i proceed to have this looked at? can i post my case here, start another thread or PM the admins?

several attempts at solving this over the last 2 years, in private, have failed.

pickarooney

Am I the only one who hasn't a clue what the joke in the OP was supposed to be?
I read six pages and nobody even addressed it.

Overheal wrote:

The DPR is still pending a Feedforward Review at a later date. In the meantime, its what we've got.

DPR... isn't that what they call North Korea?

ToadVine

tbh wrote: »

You posted in feedback looking for feedback on the pms you posted. Here's my feedback. Those messages make you look like an asshole and I wouldn't put up with it. Was there anything else?

tbh wrote: »

I would just like to say that I don post on the soccer forum because of people like the op. Op, you should not have posted the pms, because they look like the work of a ****head.

I wouldn't gave stood for that either, and if I was expected to take that, as a mod, I'd quit modding

tbh wrote: »

The guy was being a jerk, end of. I said he shouldn't have posted the pms because they made him look like a ****head - read my post again

Is this kind of personal abuse allowed here?

Posts reported.

gandalf

A couple of things from a former mod here.

Firstly OP its obvious that you fired those pms off to T4TF to get a rise out of him. While you were doing it in jest why should someone who donates his time FOC to the smooth running of the Soccer forum have to deal with infantile rubbish like that. As a former mod of soccer I know that the mods get a lot of pm's and reported posts without more from people trying to be smart asses (apologies if I offend but thats how I read it).

On saying that T4TF should not have infracted you for that. He should have reported the PM's.

As for the whole Anti-Man Utd bias that excuse has popped up since the Soccer forum was formed and we have gone through several generations of mods at this stage. There is no anti-United bias on the forum. It is overly PC but thats for a reason, no one wants that place to go back to the way it was before the whole access system was put in place. It still is on the whole a place to have intelligent discussion of soccer because of the mods.

RasTa

There is bias from TGTF though and has being since the start and it's always aimed at United fans for whatever reason. Just look at the poster above claiming he is currently serving a 2 year ban for a PM which is a disgrace. I wonder who issued the ban....

The soccer forum could go the way of the poker forum if this continues.