Soccer Forum Ban - Has a precedent been set?

gandalf

TBH the one group of fans that caused the most grief in the Soccer forum when I modded there (and ergo who got banned, these were the days before infractions) were supposedly united fans (now some were ones that continually re-regged as well). Why was this one reason was that they obviously have a bigger supporter pool compared to other teams on here therefore there are more idiots supporting them. BTW I am not labelling all United fans as troublemakers it just appears that more of the troublemakers supported United.

I got accused of Anti-United Bias because of this as well so forgive me when I take those accusations with a pinch of salt. If this is ongoing and it is unfair then it should be quite easy for people to prove this to the admins and get action taken. Normally the best way for this is with proper proof and on the helpdesk so it doesn't appear like a bunch of rabid "townspeople" with pitchforks and torches looking for a lynching.

KittyeeTrix

gandalf wrote: »

TBH the one group of fans that caused the most grief in the Soccer forum when I modded there (and ergo who got banned, these were the days before infractions) were supposedly united fans (now some were ones that continually re-regged as well). Why was this one reason was that they obviously have a bigger supporter pool compared to other teams on here therefore there are more idiots supporting them. BTW I am not labelling all United fans as troublemakers it just appears that more of the troublemakers supported United.

I got accused of Anti-United Bias because of this as well so forgive me when I take those accusations with a pinch of salt. If this is ongoing and it is unfair then it should be quite easy for people to prove this to the admins and get action taken. Normally the best way for this is with proper proof and on the helpdesk so it doesn't appear like a bunch of rabid "townspeople" with pitchforks and torches looking for a lynching.

Sorry, couldn't resist!!!

EDIT.......I was only joking Man U fans

eagle eye

gandalf wrote: »

TBH the one group of fans that caused the most grief in the Soccer forum when I modded there (and ergo who got banned, these were the days before infractions) were supposedly united fans (now some were ones that continually re-regged as well). Why was this one reason was that they obviously have a bigger supporter pool compared to other teams on here therefore there are more idiots supporting them. BTW I am not labelling all United fans as troublemakers it just appears that more of the troublemakers supported United.

I got accused of Anti-United Bias because of this as well so forgive me when I take those accusations with a pinch of salt. If this is ongoing and it is unfair then it should be quite easy for people to prove this to the admins and get action taken. Normally the best way for this is with proper proof and on the helpdesk so it doesn't appear like a bunch of rabid "townspeople" with pitchforks and torches looking for a lynching.

I was on for this stopping but after just reading Archimedes helpdesk appeal I'm not so sure anymore.

As an ex SF mod, defend this infraction. I do think its a case of a mod out to get somebody now.

Nevyn

Des wrote: »

Let's call a spade a spade here.

T4TF is not going to be sanctioned. He's friendly with far too many of the right people for that to happen

That is bullshít Des.

Mods are human we can and do screw up and will get bollixed when it happens. And no one is immune as I found out when I was given a right dressing down by several admins over deleting threads last summer.


If it was a misunderstanding and not malicious then you get made to promise never to do it again.

If you can't see why or how what you did was wrong/misguided/in error and your that out of step you will get demodded be it right away or when you fúck up what ever second chance you get.

It is hard to oust someone who has done volunteer work and held a position for any length of time, same as anything else be it order of malta, parish committee, local soccer team but all the mods are answerable to the admins and to the posters of the site.

A LOT of the demodding and dressing down does happen in private, and honestly the reason why would be to stop arsehole's being a dick and quoting stuff back at mods/posters later on down the line.

Mods can get enough stick from knobheads with given them extra ammo when the make a genuine mistake or bad call and learn from it.

But no one is unaccountable, untouchable or irreplaceable
not you Des or even me :P

Ludo

eagle eye wrote: »

As an ex SF mod, defend this infraction. I do think its a case of a mod out to get somebody now.

Did that warrant an infraction? Well, I guess it depends what was in the post before the mod edited it.

gandalf

eagle eye wrote: »

I was on for this stopping but after just reading Archimedes helpdesk appeal I'm not so sure anymore.

As an ex SF mod, defend this infraction. I do think its a case of a mod out to get somebody now.

Well based on a quick scan of the thread it looks like posts were deleted so I do not have the full context of the infraction.

Based on what's presented it looks harse but without the full context I couldn't stand by that. Based on the deleted posts it could also have been justified.

I assume you brought it to the admins attention back in Feb when it occurred as well? What was the out come of that complaint?

The Recliner

eagle eye wrote: »

I was on for this stopping but after just reading Archimedes helpdesk appeal I'm not so sure anymore.

As an ex SF mod, defend this infraction. I do think its a case of a mod out to get somebody now.

This was referenced earlier in this thread

He called Terry a twat in the opening post

it is quite clear in the charter that you can't do that, even in jest and even if it is true

gandalf

The Recliner wrote: »

This was referenced earlier in this thread

He called Terry a twat in the opening post

it is quite clear in the charter that you can't do that, even in jest and even if it is true

Ah ok it was justified so.

Mr. Presentable

gandalf wrote: »

TBH the one group of fans that caused the most grief in the Soccer forum when I modded there (and ergo who got banned, these were the days before infractions) were supposedly united fans (now some were ones that continually re-regged as well). Why was this one reason was that they obviously have a bigger supporter pool compared to other teams on here therefore there are more idiots supporting them. BTW I am not labelling all United fans as troublemakers it just appears that more of the troublemakers supported United.

I got accused of Anti-United Bias because of this as well so forgive me when I take those accusations with a pinch of salt. If this is ongoing and it is unfair then it should be quite easy for people to prove this to the admins and get action taken. Normally the best way for this is with proper proof and on the helpdesk so it doesn't appear like a bunch of rabid "townspeople" with pitchforks and torches looking for a lynching.

That's pretty much what my impression of SF is. And it's happening in this thread too - the whole victim mentality some Man U fans have. I dunno, maybe they have a younger age profile than supporters of other clubs and that explains their insecurity, but whatever it is it is there. It's a reason I supported them being given their own sub-forum.

It must be tough to moderate a forum when you're going to be accused of bias every time you have to pull someone up on something.

I have had some (slight) run-ins with T4TF, but don't believe he is biased, and don't believe he'd still have the job after so long if he were. I think in this case his judgement was off, but I'm going to accept that he's human and made a genuine mistake, nothing more.

--amadeus--

Op has a series of bans in other forums, mostly for trolling and personal abuse. Before this incident they had racked up 5 yellow cards in less than a year. Hardly a butter wouldn't melt newbie deserving some kind of benefit of teh doubt.

They knew that they were a day or two away from having the 5 current yellow cards wiped out, giving them a clean slate. They also knew that one more infraction would give them a 6 month ban.

Wouldn't you think that a smart person - especially if they value thier access to the SF so highlu - would keep thier heads down and wait out the cleaning of thier record?

But no, they think they are waaaaay to smart and think they know a way to game the system, if they send a trolly PM then it's *outside* the SF so there is no way they can get a ban. How original.

So they send a PM that was clearly designed to provoke a reaction to a Mod that they claim doesn't like them.

And they come crying on here when the PM gets a reaction, but not the one they wanted?

The ban might not be right by the letter of teh law but it is right by the spirit. For all the OP's "I'm a reformed character me" claims he still couldn't resist when he thought he had the chance to do some stirring and now he isn't big enough to man up and take teh punishment.

flahavaj

nipplenuts wrote: »

That's pretty much what my impression of SF is. And it's happening in this thread too - the whole victim mentality some Man U fans have. I dunno, maybe they have a younger age profile than supporters of other clubs and that explains their insecurity, but whatever it is it is there. It's a reason I supported them being given their own sub-forum.

I've posted for quite some time on the Soccer forum and I can't say I've noticed United fans (or fans of any other club) in particular having this "victim mentality." In general they're quite a sensible bunch.

T4TF and his modding have been called into question before but in fairness it hasn't been just United supporters, as even in this thread Des has done so and AFAIK he supports Shels. I can't really comment on T4TF myself as I've had no experience of the guy good or bad in the past, apart from what I've seen in this thread.

I think its a bit unfair to single out one group of supporters as being the ones kicking up all the fuss and the "younger age group" comment is a bit of a sly dig tbh.

gandalf

flahavaj wrote: »

I've posted for quite some time on the Soccer forum and I can't say I've noticed United fans (or fans of any other club) in particular having this "victim mentality." In general they're quite a sensible bunch.

T4TF and his modding have been called into question before but in fairness it hasn't been just United supporters, as even in this thread Des has done so and AFAIK he supports Shels. I can't really comment on T4TF myself as I've had no experience of the guy good or bad in the past, apart from what I've seen in this thread.

I think its a bit unfair to single out one group of supporters as being the ones kicking up all the fuss and the "younger age group" comment is a bit of a sly dig tbh.

TBH my comments and nipplenuts were in response to the accusations of Anti-United bias by one of the posters.

All I can give is my experience of moderating in the past.

As regards any mod whose decisions are questionable. If people do not report them via the proper channels then no one who can make a difference can do anything. Threads like this one are counter productive as you can already see with people who themselves appear to have a grudge against a certain moderator jump in with their own agendas.

RasTa

Is above [HIV]Gandalf btw?

Mr. Presentable

flahavaj wrote: »

I've posted for quite some time on the Soccer forum and I can't say I've noticed United fans (or fans of any other club) in particular having this "victim mentality." In general they're quite a sensible bunch.

T4TF and his modding have been called into question before but in fairness it hasn't been just United supporters, as even in this thread Des has done so and AFAIK he supports Shels. I can't really comment on T4TF myself as I've had no experience of the guy good or bad in the past, apart from what I've seen in this thread.

I think its a bit unfair to single out one group of supporters as being the ones kicking up all the fuss and the "younger age group" comment is a bit of a sly dig tbh.

To be fair, I am responding in a thread where a group are suggesting there is a bias against them without any real substantiation.

In respect of your "sly dig" comment, mine was a proposition, not a statement. I'm disappointed you'd take it as a dig. You don't think it's likely?

gandalf

As in the Q2 clan? errr briefly yep !!! Hated that game though LOL

DeVore

copacetic wrote: »

looks like a piss poor attempt at trolling/being a dick via unsolicited pm, gets an infraction and user already has a pile so they get a ban. simples and pretty easy to predict. posting the pms here shows the OP isn't on the level imo.

also shouldn't this be in helpdesk?

Copacetic and I dont often agree but.... nail. head. thump.


DeV.

Dub13

I go away for a weekend and all hell brakes out.

Right looks like the Archie situation is sorted out,for the record it was discussed by the soccer mods and I asked for it to be kicked up to the Cat Mod just for complete impartiality.

As for the other 6 months bans handed out,I will admit the soccer forum mods fcuked up and dropped the ball when it came to monitoring the infractions on some users.This was a mistake and should not have happened and we will try and insure it does not happening going forward.For lads to start giving out now after going over the limit is a bit like giving out to the ref after been sent off,you knew the rules.I myself had warned at least 1 of that group that they were very close to the limit.

With regards the Anti-Man Utd agenda claims well IMO thats complete crap,I personally have bent over back wards to help some Utd fans and I would hope that its a)seen and b)appreciated.

ctrl-alt-delete

Video evidence is needed to be honest. How an online forum has not embraced technology is beyond comprehension

Dub13

ctrl-alt-delete wrote: »

Video evidence is needed to be honest. How an online forum has not embraced technology is beyond comprehension

Sepp Blatter is a Boards Admin.

Dohnny Jepp

Thaedydal wrote: »

And no one is immune as I found out when I was given a right dressing down by several admins over deleting threads last summer.

Pics or it didnt happen.. . . cough joking cough

LuckyLloyd

Some things that seem relevant:

- When I was modding the forum with T4TF his club affiliation never seemed to influence any moderating decision (or discussions on moderating decisions) involving himself or other members of the mod team;

- The 6 infractions and you're out system only catches out a tiny portion of the soccer forum user base as a whole. If you've fallen foul of moderation over five times in a 10 month span then you aren't the angel you perceive yourself to be. I think it works really well because it has shifted on some genuinely moronic posters over the past couple of years. I couldn't ever have any sympathy for people who fall foul of it. I mean, 6 yellow cards. Six!! If you get that many you really aren't playing by the rules. So GTFO;

- It is difficult to comprehend how much work goes into monitoring the soccer forum if you haven't done it yourself. Yes, sometimes one of the mods will give out an infraction without checking the posters record. As such, there are cases where there is a delay between the sixth infraction being issued and the six month ban being issued. But come on, so what? That is a minor administrative error. It doesn't in of itself make the individual infractions, the cumulative ban, or (and most importantly) the overall system a bad one. Complaints of that nature are no more than childish whining;

- The original PM from Archimedes was antaganistic. I mean, there is no other way to assess it. As far as I'm concerned, PMs are for people you know or for specific requests or questions to people you don't. The PM in this case is weird at best and pure trolling at worst;

- It would be a terrible shame if this thread sidetracks the end of season soccer forum review. This stuff is not the core issue that needs to be tackled from a moderating perspective. The core issue remains the same as it ever was;

RasTa

DeVore wrote: »

Copacetic and I dont often agree but.... nail. head. thump.


DeV.

Why does the infraction go towards Soccer and not the other forums he mods?

Peyton Manning

Im sorry but an Admin has already said T4TF acted beyond his power (dr. bollocko's post sums up how). T4TF made it quite clear in his responses to me that he would be chasing up a soccer forum ban, which is not the appropriate course of action. As such, an Admin has removed to the soccer forum infraction and replaced with a profile infraction which I have no problem with. I have not claimed to innocent in this at all. As far as Im concerned, the appropriate action has now been taken.

LuckyLloyd

Archimedes wrote: »

Im sorry but an Admin has already said T4TF acted beyond his power (dr. bollocko's post sums up how). T4TF made it quite clear in his responses to me that he would be chasing up a soccer forum ban, which is not the appropriate course of action. As such, an Admin has removed to the soccer forum infraction and replaced with a profile infraction which I have no problem with. I have not claimed to innocent in this at all. As far as Im concerned, the appropriate action has now been taken.

I still don't know why you decided to act like a dick in the first place.

That the infraction isn't counting towards a soccer forum ban seems to be the worst type of technical reprieve. It was a PM sent on the subject of soccer to a poster you would only know / interact with via the soccer forum. You should also be taking something away from the fact that other members of the mod team and a C - Mod viewed your actions negatively as an initial reaction.

Congratulations on successfully kicking up a fuss I guess.

gandalf

Ah so now you have had your ego massage all is well is it Archimedes.

To be honest the only reason T4TF got that PM from you was because he was a mod of the Soccer Forum. You sent it to annoy him, from my perspective it is soccer related and it should be dealt with as if it occured on the soccer forum.

T4TF should have referred it to one of the other mods and they should have been the ones that took action.

Peyton Manning

gandalf wrote: »

Ah so now you have had your ego massage all is well is it Archimedes.

To be honest the only reason T4TF got that PM from you was because he was a mod of the Soccer Forum. You sent it to annoy him, from my perspective it is soccer related and it should be dealt with as if it occured on the soccer forum.

T4TF should have referred it to one of the other mods and they should have been the ones that took action.

Ego massage? What on earth are you talking about? I've admitted I shouldn't have sent it in the first place, I haven't denied any wrongdoing. My problem was the repercussions were inappropriate. An admin and a lot of other people agreed with me on this point, so much so in fact the decision has been reversed by an admin and the correct action has been taken. If you think what the Admin did was wrong, Im not the one to take it up with.

Dohnny Jepp

gandalf wrote: »

Ah so now you have had your ego massage all is well is it Archimedes.

To be honest the only reason T4TF got that PM from you was because he was a mod of the Soccer Forum. You sent it to annoy him, from my perspective it is soccer related and it should be dealt with as if it occured on the soccer forum.

T4TF should have referred it to one of the other mods and they should have been the ones that took action.

Whatever should have happened is no longer important IMO, what is important is that we learn from this and make sure that there is solid rulings for what should happen in the future.

gandalf

Archimedes wrote: »

Ego massage? What on earth are you talking about? I've admitted I shouldn't have sent it in the first place, I haven't denied any wrongdoing. My problem was the repercussions were inappropriate. An admin and a lot of other people agreed with me on this point, so much so in fact the decision has been reversed by an admin and the correct action has been taken. If you think what the Admin did was wrong, Im not the one to take it up with.

Actually you are wrong you started this thread so you are the person to take this up with.

Why did you send that series of PM's

Was it because

A. T4TF was a good mate who could help you with your dilemma?
or
B. Because he is a mod you wanted to annoy him?

I think we all know the answer.

As LuckyLloyd said you have gotten off on a technical reprieve.

@Dohnny Jepp yeah maybe we have learnt that with certain users the rope to hang them with should be shortened.

Peyton Manning

gandalf wrote: »

As LuckyLloyd said you have gotten off on a technical reprieve.

I have not gotten off with anything. I have been given the correct punishment. As for technicalities, it is the same method through which T4TF has handed out extremely harsh bans. Just look at Headshot's thread in Help Desk for further proof.

Jazzy

gandalf wrote: »

Ah so now you have had your ego massage all is well is it Archimedes.

To be honest the only reason T4TF got that PM from you was because he was a mod of the Soccer Forum. You sent it to annoy him, from my perspective it is soccer related and it should be dealt with as if it occured on the soccer forum.

T4TF should have referred it to one of the other mods and they should have been the ones that took action.

and was it really such a big deal as to infract at all? people accusing archi of causing a drama should really look both ways.. if t4tf was in some way chilled out then it wouldnt have a big deal in the first place. he decided not to be chilled out about it and maybe people should ask why that is..