Birdwatch Ireland replace ICMSA on EU panel

johngalway

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/appointing-bird-expert-to-eu-branded-cuckoo-2246308.html

Cuckoo indeed. Election coming soon hopefully!

vanderbadger

hopefully the greens will disappear after next election

John_F

discussion on pat kenny radio one this morning about this, it is a disgrace that everyone thinks by having green td's etc that it will make ireland a better country, there are only two real sectors in ireland that are large enough to create real money in my opinion, they are tourism and agriculture, but the government has made every one feel that we have to have this 'smart' economy, im reading a new zealand magazine as i write this and they are now on the lookout to export more products to russia, a country on the other side of the world is sending product we could be supplying to a country not to far away, time to get real, farming is a sector that supports thousands of people in this country but because it involves a bit of muck it isn't sexy enough.

on neil prendiville this morning (96fm) he was discussing the bog cutting and how a tour bus was parked and a group of tourists taking pictures of a stack of turf and how this could create more money for local areas, send the asians cutting the turf and having tea in the bog he said.

on the topic of the replacement, it is a real shame that just as discussion on the future of CAP are beginning that people who produce food have less of a say than people representing BIRDS. and come election time we will be hearing the same crap on global warming, how anyone using on should do penance by voting a green member etc etc etc

Birdnuts

I would have thought this was good news for the majority of low intensive small farmers in this country whose activities are generally in harmony with the aims of BWI (which has by the way have over 20,000 members in the republic).

I really don't really see the problem here given that when the CAP is scrapped most EU farm supports will be on the basis of environmental/public benefits provided. The Corncrake grant scheme is an excellent example of succesfull co-operations between BWI and small farmers:)

Birdnuts

John_F wrote: »

discussion on pat kenny radio one this morning about this, it is a disgrace that everyone thinks by having green td's etc that it will make ireland a better country, there are only two real sectors in ireland that are large enough to create real money in my opinion, they are tourism and agriculture,

That doesn't make much sense given that the majority of tourists come here for our scenery and percieved clean green image which supports angling and the growing eco-tourism sector. Also the market for organic farm produce continues to grow world-wide despite the recession.

Birdnuts

johngalway wrote: »

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/appointing-bird-expert-to-eu-branded-cuckoo-2246308.html

Cuckoo indeed. Election coming soon hopefully!

As usual no attempt by the O'Reilly rag journalist to discuss the wider issues here such as the fact that its a standard practice to have environmental groups on such forums accross Europe given the major impact farming has on water quality, landscapes, biodiversity etc. all of which provide wider society with many public goods.

blue5000

The greens are just trying to wag the dog before the next election, after which they will be gone like PDs.

It would have been better if one ot the 3 trade union seats were given to the env sector. Having said that, I reckon Padraig Walshe will do a good job looking after farmers' interests.

Perhaps we as farmers could work with the env. woman. There is plenty of evidence to show that the former reps scheme had a very positive effect on biodiversity, water quality etc. If we work with her to get funding for something similiar funded by EU we could all benefit. I wish her all the best in her new job.

Birdnuts

blue5000 wrote: »

The greens are just trying to wag the dog before the next election, after which they will be gone like PDs.

It would have been better if one ot the 3 trade union seats were given to the env sector. Having said that, I reckon Padraig Walshe will do a good job looking after farmers' interests.

Perhaps we as farmers could work with the env. woman. There is plenty of evidence to show that the former reps scheme had a very positive effect on biodiversity, water quality etc. If we work with her to get funding for something similiar funded by EU we could all benefit. I wish her all the best in her new job.

+1

I wish the rest of the farming/rural lobby would take time out and think of the bigger picture!!

Uriel.

I don't see the issue to be honest. Don't see it as being cuckoo either. Farming interests are still being represented on the forum. All relevant representations should be present. Birdwatch represent almost 30 environmental groups. No reason why the ifa can't represent all farming interests.

It makes perfect sense IMO.

Plenty of money flows into this country from the eu for environmental protection measures. Environmental groups should have a place at the table to discuss value for money

LostCovey

johngalway wrote: »

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/appointing-bird-expert-to-eu-branded-cuckoo-2246308.html

Cuckoo indeed. Election coming soon hopefully!

Pathetic stuff.

Falling for this kind of nonsense is cuckoo, John.

A classic from the Duckworth school of journalism. Sir Anthony AJF O'Reilly's rags have swung elections before with this kind of partisan gutter journalism. It will be wrapping around tomorrow's chips, but week after week, year after year, this kind of corrosive nonsense seeps into feeble minds (present company excepted).

Appointing someone who happens to work for BirdWatch Ireland, but represents 28 environmental groups to a minor EU committee in this context is at least as valid as appointing the previous holder of the role - a leader of a sectional farmer's union. I have never voted Green in my life, but the hate campaign building up against them in the media is amazing to watch. They are a special interest group. They do what they can to advance their viewpoint - you may agree or disagree, but they have done bugger all damage to anyone. Compared to the rest.

This country has been driven to the verge of bankruptcy, and emergency legislation drafted to bail out some very dodgy institutions, effectively handing multi-generation mortgages to our children.

The Brothers of Charity in Galway are being forced to close their respite care programme for disabled kids

And what gets the Indo (and the rest of them) all worked up????

- Banning carted stag hunting, which only happens in one part on one county in the country

- Regulating industrial puppy farming

- And now replacing a farming politician on a minor EU committee with an environmentalist.


The Jesuits prided themselves on educating leaders, and Sir Anthony AJF must be their pride and joy. He's leading ye all up the garden path. But in fairness there's always a photo of a looker on the front page of the Sunday Indo. And all that co-ordinated opinion from all those columnists saying the same thing saves all that bother of forming your own opinions.

God help us all.

LostCovey

red bull

One should give a thought to the thousands of very well paid jobs in food processing which are provided by Irish farmers. Farmers are on the breadline at the moment but their produce is providing much needed employment. Without market support no farmers, no food, birds need food too ? How many jobs will birdwatch Ireland provide ? My guess is very few. Rural Ireland is being sold down the the drain to keep the Greens in government. God help us all:rolleyes:

pakalasa

LostCovey wrote: »

................ Sir Anthony AJF O'Reilly's rags have swung elections before with this kind of partisan gutter journalism.
LostCovey......

And I thought I was the only one that had a problem with Sir O'Reilly.
What's this that Billy Conolly said about the UK tabloids..."Dumbing down of society".

I for one have stopped reading the Sunday Independent. Who cares if Rosanna Davison is tired of the public life.Its hardly front page news, is it?
And as for that clown Brendan O'Connor, dont get me started....:D

John_F

Birdnuts wrote: »

I would have thought this was good news for the majority of low intensive small farmers in this country whose activities are generally in harmony with the aims of BWI (which has by the way have over 20,000 members in the republic).

I really don't really see the problem here given that when the CAP is scrapped most EU farm supports will be on the basis of environmental/public benefits provided. The Corncrake grant scheme is an excellent example of succesfull co-operations between BWI and small farmers:)

Birdnuts wrote: »

That doesn't make much sense given that the majority of tourists come here for our scenery and percieved clean green image which supports angling and the growing eco-tourism sector. Also the market for organic farm produce continues to grow world-wide despite the recession.

John_F wrote: »

discussion on pat kenny radio one this morning about this, it is a disgrace that everyone thinks by having green td's etc that it will make ireland a better country, there are only two real sectors in ireland that are large enough to create real money in my opinion, they are tourism and agriculture, but the government has made every one feel that we have to have this 'smart' economy, im reading a new zealand magazine as i write this and they are now on the lookout to export more products to russia, a country on the other side of the world is sending product we could be supplying to a country not to far away, time to get real, farming is a sector that supports thousands of people in this country but because it involves a bit of muck it isn't sexy enough.

i don't think the common agricutural policy will be scraped, europe cannot afford to scrap measures that support safe food for european citizens, if there is no policy then europe will find it hard to regulate the food supply chain putting consumers at risk. Also as the majority of european farmers are family farms that support local areas and communities they cannot afford to be paying out welfare to these people on low incomes. The CAP was to protect european food supplies after a period of food shortage and generate a sustainable income for farm families, if farmers arn't making money (commercially or from subsidies) then food supply will decrease. Bird watch Ireland has 20,000 members, not a vailid argument when the ICMSA also claim to have 20,000 members and along with this represent an industry that has the potential to employ more people.

Sure a clean environment and having environment focused policy does create jobs but the people on this panle do not represent employers as it has done previously, and yes farmers are regared as employers in my opinion. This will only bring more red tape, more forms and more bull sh1t to farmers letter boxes in my opinion, regulations about this that and the other thing while no regulation of banks, public service institutions (HSE) and making a complete mockery of Irish tax payers money

@ Lost Covey, i think you are lost, this isn't propaganda

Uriel.

John_F wrote: »

i don't think the common agricutural policy will be scraped, europe cannot afford to scrap measures that support safe food for european citizens, if there is no policy then europe will find it hard to regulate the food supply chain putting consumers at risk. Also as the majority of european farmers are family farms that support local areas and communities they cannot afford to be paying out welfare to these people on low incomes. The CAP was to protect european food supplies after a period of food shortage and generate a sustainable income for farm families, if farmers arn't making money (commercially or from subsidies) then food supply will decrease. Bird watch Ireland has 20,000 members, not a vailid argument when the ICMSA also claim to have 20,000 members and along with this represent an industry that has the potential to employ more people.

Sure a clean environment and having environment focused policy does create jobs but the people on this panle do not represent employers as it has done previously, and yes farmers are regared as employers in my opinion. This will only bring more red tape, more forms and more bull sh1t to farmers letter boxes in my opinion, regulations about this that and the other thing while no regulation of banks, public service institutions (HSE) and making a complete mockery of Irish tax payers money

@ Lost Covey, i think you are lost, this isn't propaganda

Farmers remain to be represented though. So I really don't get the issue. The enviornmental pillar has one nomination to represent all environmental interests. The farmers will have the same.

All relevant interests should be represented. Sustainable advancement and ensuring protection of key environmental issues should be a key factor (as well as farmer interests etc..). Accountability is a very key element in moving forward. Plenty of EU money is pumped into Ireland and I think, if the EU believes environmental considerations must be given a opportunity to be managed then that's exactly what should happen.

I don't believe only one side of the "arguement" should have a say. Farmers or developeres or banks or whoever, will only do the things that provide them with the greatest return on investment without general regard for other matters or the common good. Regulation is there to, in principal deal with that issue. Having all sides represented at a table gives an opportunity to ensure a balanced approach going forward.

Birdnuts

red bull wrote: »

One should give a thought to the thousands of very well paid jobs in food processing which are provided by Irish farmers. Farmers are on the breadline at the moment but their produce is providing much needed employment. Without market support no farmers, no food, birds need food too ? How many jobs will birdwatch Ireland provide ? My guess is very few. Rural Ireland is being sold down the the drain to keep the Greens in government. God help us all:rolleyes:

This type of inaccurate hysteria does farmers no favours among the EU tax-payers who bankroll the CAP, which given the state of many economies across the EU is going to come under extreme pressure in the coming years. The environmental and farming sector should instead work together to get the best deal that will benefit both the environment and small farmers. The shrill nonsense I hear from many farming organisations on this topic makes me and many others suspect that they are only interested in lining the pockets of the biggest farmers and big agri-business like Greencore etc.:(

John_F

Birdnuts wrote: »

This type of inaccurate hysteria does farmers no favours among the EU tax-payers who bankroll the CAP, which given the state of many economies across the EU is going to come under extreme pressure in the coming years. The environmental and farming sector should instead work together to get the best deal that will benefit both the environment and small farmers. The shrill nonsense I hear from many farming organisations on this topic makes me and many others suspect that they are only interested in lining the pockets of the biggest farmers and big agri-business like Greencore etc.:(

i agree that payments should be relative to current production and not based on past figures, and also have a ceiling on it.

But for the family run unit that money is spent in local communities.

@ Uriel: The issue is that dairy farming in Ireland has the ability to take us out of the economic mess we are in, alot more than windmills and the sort. The social partnership already has

employers, unions, farmers and community groups

, these are all groups that represent people who work and pay taxes, i really do not know what an environmental group can do on this fourm, i just don't think its the right place. While you may say that the IFA are still on it i dont think they will truly represent the thousands of dairy farmers who lost money in 2009.

Can one of you please post a link to where this lobbiest says what it is she will do for Ireland?

LostCovey

John_F wrote: »

Can one of you please post a link to where this lobbiest says what it is she will do for Ireland?

The farming lobby can come across as far more shrill than the wonkiest dippiest Green.

A representative is a representative. I would expect her to represent the groups she represent. Keep some perspective.

She is replacing Jackie Cahill FFS!

I am sure she will maintain the high representative standards he has set.

LostCovey

LostCovey

vanderbadger wrote: »

hopefully the greens will disappear after next election

The Greens, like the poor, you will always have with you.

Get over it.

LC

John_F

LostCovey wrote: »

The farming lobby can come across as far more shrill than the wonkiest dippiest Green.

A representative is a representative. I would expect her to represent the groups she represent. Keep some perspective.

She is replacing Jackie Cahill FFS!

I am sure she will maintain the high representative standards he has set.

LostCovey

Dont see your point and also you are wrong,

Former ICMSA president Frank Allen is being replaced by Birdwatch Ireland policy officer Siobhan Egan, who represents 28 environmental groups.

And also we wont always have to get into bed with the greens, its mostly urban middle class people are the voters of the green party and as soon as they see that they are not really doing much for this country the better, money must be made for ireland to get into surplus budget once again, this can be done with growing our indigenous sector that exports over 85% of its product, not so much by talking about saving the trees,

LostCovey

red bull wrote: »

One should give a thought to the thousands of very well paid jobs in food processing which are provided by Irish farmers. Farmers are on the breadline at the moment but their produce is providing much needed employment.

If this summarises the current economics of farming after
40 or 50 years of all the IFA/ICMSA representatives lobbying in Dublin & Brussels,
and IFA officers packing all the boards,
and all the lobbying and backslapping,
and all the belligerent marching,
and roaring into microphones on the back of lorries,
and all the IFA past-presidents in opinion-forming influential roles,
I think maybe the BirdWatch lady might do a better job of representing us!

Give her a go.

She might be the next Padraig Walshe.

LC

LostCovey

John_F wrote: »

Dont see your point and also you are wrong,

And also we wont always have to get into bed with the greens, its mostly urban middle class people are the voters of the green party and as soon as they see that they are not really doing much for this country the better, money must be made for ireland to get into surplus budget once again, this can be done with growing our indigenous sector that exports over 85% of its product, not so much by talking about saving the trees,

My mistake, I thought she was replacing the current ICMSA president.

She is replacing a former one.

Right.

Nuff said bout representation.

LC

LostCovey

John_F wrote: »

Dont see your point and also you are wrong,

its mostly urban middle class people are the voters of the green party and as soon as they see that they are not really doing much for this country the better

I don't disagree.

But I think it takes a particular type of tunnel vision to imagine that the current all-out mindless attack on the Greens and attempt to make them the blamehound for the apocalypse will damage them in the eyes of that demographic.

But when it comes to fingering who wrecked the country, most of us don't blame the fella in the bicycle clips, dotty as he may be.

The boys in the Galway Tent did us in. That won't be forgotten by anyone, urban or rural, who is furnished with accompanied brain cells.

The Greens will be a splinter in your a*se for years to come, but watch that rotten branch you are dancing on.

LC

LostCovey

blue5000 wrote: »

I reckon Padraig Walshe will do a good job looking after farmers' interests.

Dead right.

He was a fantastic IFA president. Wasn't he?

LC

John_F

LostCovey wrote: »

I don't disagree.

But I think it takes a particular type of tunnel vision to imagine that the current all-out mindless attack on the Greens and attempt to make them the blamehound for the apocalypse will damage them in the eyes of that demographic.

But when it comes to fingering who wrecked the country, most of us don't blame the fella in the bicycle clips, dotty as he may be.

The boys in the Galway Tent did us in. That won't be forgotten by anyone, urban or rural, who is furnished with accompanied brain cells.

The Greens will be a splinter in your a*se for years to come, but watch that rotten branch you are dancing on.

LC

Lost Convey, i dont take issue with protecting the environment, nbut it has to be realistic, there is already too many regualtions and forms around farmers necks, and for the record im not praising Fianna Fáil for one second and they too should step down, but thats for another day


Im over it now, cows in the morning... good night :cool:

LostCovey

John_F wrote: »

Lost Convey, i dont take issue with protecting the environment, nbut it has to be realistic,
Im over it now, cows in the morning... good night :cool:

Realistic?????

I hate the way you make me campaign for the Greens. I don't really like them, but they are harmless. I wish in ways they were less harmless, because we could do with some robust environmental legislation with teeth.

What have they done that is unrealistic????

Making us buy slightly dearer longer lasting bulbs and insulate new houses better

Stopping Gavin Duffy and his chums dogging a skulled deer across Meath till it can't run??

Forcing an ANNUAL veterinary inspection on people who make a fortune keeping rows of breeding bitches in farrowing pens like sows in the 70s ??

Hardly unrealistic is it?

Goodnight fella.

LC

Sisu200

vanderbadger wrote: »

hopefully the greens will disappear after next election

I agree in an enviromentally green fashion:D

Birdnuts

John_F wrote: »

Lost Convey, i dont take issue with protecting the environment, nbut it has to be realistic, there is already too many regualtions and forms around farmers necks:

Not my argument but many non-farmers would say that if farmers don't like the rules then they shouldn't take the money in the form of EU farm supports!!

John_F

Birdnuts wrote: »

Not my argument but many non-farmers would say that if farmers don't like the rules then they shouldn't take the money in the form of EU farm supports!!

Yes thats all well and good untill you have inspectors from the dept of ag, dept of environment, bord bia and local government / council all looking for the same thing, theres a great amount of repetition involved that uses up farmer time. I dont have a problem complying with sensible laws, i do have a problem with the nonsensical regulations and the waste of money paying the 'jobs for the boys'

irishh_bob

the i.c.m.s.a do fcuk all as far as i can see anyway

whelan1

irishh_bob wrote: »

the i.c.m.s.a do fcuk all as far as i can see anyway

have to agree with you there