To much Conspirecy bad thing???

mugs1

I have been reading through some threads, and noticed that some posters seem to be so wraped up in the conspirecy bubble that they have abandoned any sense of logic and reason, almost has a religous/fanatical feel to it with no checks and balances.

Having spent alot of time looking into this subject myself I can certianly see how this would happen, alot of the stories are amazing and really stimulate the imagination, largley helped by the person telling the Story who is usually very intelligent and carasmatic. Add to this the sense that you have stumbled accross some big secret that only you and a hand full of ENLITGHTENED people know about, So it's your Job to unravell the mystery while everyone else is asleep in the Matrix,

It's all very intoxicating and easy to get lost in the myriad of ideas and theories, All the while your usual checks and balances falling away as the theories get more and more complicated and imaginative, Not realizing that you have created your own little matrix, and your mind has become just as closed if not more so then the Sheeple you claim to be trying to enlighten!

Im not saying all conspirecies are rubbish far from it, just some people don't know when to stop digging!!

Myrddin

I guess it's because so many stories are open to personal viewpoint/beliefs. You can basically create a conspiracy around a bottle of milk if you wish, and for some people, the truth may seem more/less real than others.

I'm sure you'll agree that everyone is absoloutley entitled to believe in whatever they choose. For me it only gets irritating when people (myself included) are accused of being "asleep", or not intelligent enough to realise the conspiracy.

I personally dont't put any faith in the whole Lizard conspiracy. It's my own belief that most conspiracies revolve around money/political gain. But I'd NEVER begrudge someone else for giving the Lizard theory any credance, just because I dont see it.

Regardless, it's always very interesting to read some of the theories on here, regardless of whether you put any faith in them or not. You never know, something might click with you & you'll find yourself a believer

Brown Bomber

mugs1 wrote: »

IIm not saying all conspirecies are rubbish far from it, just some people don't know when to stop digging!!

In other words any conspiracies that you feel are valid is ok anything that doesn't tick your conspiracy checklist is creating "your own little matrix"?

Fairly arrogant pov to be fair.

bonkey

mugs1 wrote: »

I have been reading through some threads, and noticed that some posters seem to be so wraped up in the conspirecy bubble that they have abandoned any sense of logic and reason, almost has a religous/fanatical feel to it with no checks and balances.

Comments like this are, effectively, insulting other posters here.

Please don't do that.

Zombienosh

I think what OP means is there sometimes seems to a line between conspiracy theories and paranoia... Most of the time the first someone would say to me after putting forward an idea or theory is that im just being paranoid...

I can step back sometimes and go, what if i am being paranoid? or am i just seeing what other people cant.

Hes so crazy he doesnt know hes crazy sort of an argument.

bonkey

AlcoholicA wrote: »

I think what OP means is there sometimes seems to a line between conspiracy theories and paranoia...

What the OP said, though, is not only is there such a line but that they feel some posters here have crossed it.

This is the bit I object to.

If you think its acceptable to make derogatory comments about other posters' thought processes, then I'd ask that you make a case for that on the "Feedback" thread stickied at the top of the forum.

Zombienosh

Im kind of used to that assumption to posters here. hes not the first to say things like that and he wont be the last.

mugs1

bonkey wrote: »

Comments like this are, effectively, insulting other posters here.

Please don't do that.

With all due respect...

I haven't insulted anyone, My comment wasn't aimed at anyone in particular, it is merley my reasonable opinion based on what i've read on this public forum.

No different to giving my opinion on the views of an author in a book!

mugs1

bonkey wrote: »

What the OP said, though, is not only is there such a line but that they feel some posters here have crossed it.

This is the bit I object to.

If you think its acceptable to make derogatory comments about other posters' thought processes, then I'd ask that you make a case for that on the "Feedback" thread stickied at the top of the forum.

What Im saying is.... I am asking the Question Is digging into Conspirecey theories to much... a bad thing!! I then gave an explanation why im asking the question, and gave a short outline why i think it might be!


I have made no derogatory comments about anyone's Thought processes to say I have is a bit over the top to be honest!

tallus

mugs1 wrote: »

I have been reading through some threads, and noticed that some posters seem to be so wraped up in the conspirecy bubble that they have abandoned any sense of logic and reason, almost has a religous/fanatical feel to it with no checks and balances.

I think you are mistaken regarding the comment that there are no checks and balances on this forum.

I think you'll find that the most common form of "check and balance" is provided by the regular users of the forum, and also the moderators.
I haven't seen posters getting away with a lack of logic or reason because there are plenty of users here more than willing to use counter arguments.

My two cents.

mugs1

Brown Bomber wrote: »

In other words any conspiracies that you feel are valid is ok anything that doesn't tick your conspiracy checklist is creating "your own little matrix"?

Fairly arrogant pov to be fair.

That wasn't what I meant in that at all, the point I was trying to get accross is and i'll use the digging analogy again.

When your digging a hole stop digging every now and again, lift your head, and take a look around just to make sure you haven't dug so deep you can't get out!!

mugs1

tallus wrote: »

I think you are mistaken regarding the comment that there are no checks and balances on this forum.

I think you'll find that the most common form of "check and balance" is provided by the regular users of the forum, and also the moderators.
I haven't seen posters getting away with a lack of logic or reason because there are plenty of users here more than willing to use counter arguments.

My two cents.

Hi tallus,

Yes I agree, I've seen alot of good counter arguments made, but all to often they are convienently ignored, and as such wild sweeping statments of unsubstantiated claims presented as fact, takes the place of intellegent debate!!

Brown Bomber

mugs1 wrote: »

That wasn't what I meant in that at all, the point I was trying to get accross is and i'll use the digging analogy again.

When your digging a hole stop digging every now and again, lift your head, and take a look around just to make sure you haven't dug so deep you can't get out!!

I believe I understood you, you've just reititerated your previous statements as far as I can tell. "digging the hole" is digging further away from your position, that is to say the correct and proper position, which is why I took it as arrogant, still do.

Now I just can't see the difference between you claiming to have it all figured out and a vocal conspiracy theorist, or probably more accurately what you are describing is a new-age follower or paranormal enthusiast.

espinolman

mugs1 wrote: »

Im not saying all conspirecies are rubbish far from it, just some people don't know when to stop digging!!

OOOOOOOOOKKKKKKKKK , ssssssssssssooooooooooo , i will to have to check the threads on the forum , must be something there we are not supposed to be digging into , :rolleyes: , i'll be doing some serious digging now .

espinolman

mugs1 wrote: »

just some people don't know when to stop digging!!

Is it this one here ? : http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055951491

mugs1

espinolman wrote: »

Is it this one here ? : http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055951491

Sorry, i don't see your point at all!!!

mugs1

Jaysus I've really disturbed the hornets nest here haven't I

I like it, I think it's good, it's healthy!!!

Im startin to feel like were connecting.... you know bonding like

mugs1

Brown Bomber wrote: »

I believe I understood you, you've just reititerated your previous statements as far as I can tell. "digging the hole" is digging further away from your position, that is to say the correct and proper position, which is why I took it as arrogant, still do.

Now I just can't see the difference between you claiming to have it all figured out and a vocal conspiracy theorist, or probably more accurately what you are describing is a new-age follower or paranormal enthusiast.

Im sorry but thats just weak....

how's that for arrogance!!!

espinolman

mugs1 wrote: »

Sorry, i don't see your point at all!!!

What is it we should not find out about ?

What do you think could happen if we found out ?

mugs1

espinolman wrote: »

What is it we should not find out about ?

What do you think could happen if we found out ?

Holy crap dude what are you on about.... just get to it and make your point already!!!

mugs1

espinolman wrote: »

What is it we should not find out about ?

What do you think could happen if we found out ?

I think I know what your on about...

this should be funny :rolleyes:

espinolman

mugs1 wrote: »

Holy crap dude what are you on about.... just get to it and make your point already!!!

"Some people don't know when to stop digging "

Stop digging into what exactly ?

Is there something on the forum ?

mugs1

espinolman wrote: »

"Some people don't know when to stop digging "

Stop digging into what exactly ?

Is there something on the forum ?

Oh, you actually have no point to make at all do you.

Brown Bomber

mugs1 wrote: »

Im sorry but thats just weak....

how's that for arrogance!!!

How is it weak? Explain it to me because I think you are wrong.

I'm not saying you are or aren't an arrogant person, your position in this case is however arrogant.

K-9

There are certain threads here that plenty of reasonable evidence has been given to discount the original conspiracy. I suppose if somebody continues to hold that belief and indeed far more worryingly, still holds it to be a fact or true, that is worrying.

Overall, I don't think it is a big problem on this Board.

Brown Bomber

K-9 wrote: »

There are certain threads here that plenty of reasonable evidence has been given to discount the original conspiracy. I suppose if somebody continues to hold that belief and indeed far more worryingly, still holds it to be a fact or true, that is worrying.

Overall, I don't think it is a big problem on this Board.

True. To be fair that is equally the case on the other side of the fence as well. Complete refusal to accept legitimate evidence supporting a CT.

bonkey

mugs1 wrote: »

With all due respect...

I haven't insulted anyone, My comment wasn't aimed at anyone in particular, it is merley my reasonable opinion based on what i've read on this public forum.

Please read the charter. Pay attention to the bit which says :

Please don't use sweeping generalisations which indirectly attack or belittle other posters here.

I don't care one whit that your comment wasn't aimed at anyone "in particular". You made your comments about some posters, which means you clearly feel that some poster or posters here fir the bill. Not naming them doesn't make your insults acceptable.

Please also pay attention to the bit which says :

Don't argue with moderator decisions in-thread

Black Swan

mugs1 wrote: »

It's all very intoxicating and easy to get lost in the myriad of ideas and theories

"That's entertainment!" Beats the soaps.

Methinks most CTs are really not CTs, but often resulting from government incompetence, which, around election time, they try to cover up like cats in a litter box.

That is not to say there are no CTs, but the odds are the real ones we would never discover on this forum.

Torakx

mugs1 wrote: »

I have been reading through some threads, and noticed that some posters seem to be so wraped up in the conspirecy bubble that they have abandoned any sense of logic and reason, almost has a religous/fanatical feel to it with no checks and balances.

Having spent alot of time looking into this subject myself I can certianly see how this would happen, alot of the stories are amazing and really stimulate the imagination, largley helped by the person telling the Story who is usually very intelligent and carasmatic. Add to this the sense that you have stumbled accross some big secret that only you and a hand full of ENLITGHTENED people know about, So it's your Job to unravell the mystery while everyone else is asleep in the Matrix,

It's all very intoxicating and easy to get lost in the myriad of ideas and theories, All the while your usual checks and balances falling away as the theories get more and more complicated and imaginative, Not realizing that you have created your own little matrix, and your mind has become just as closed if not more so then the Sheeple you claim to be trying to enlighten!

Im not saying all conspirecies are rubbish far from it, just some people don't know when to stop digging!!

To answer your main question i think with some people too much conspiracy theory can be a bad thing.Just as i believe too much ignorance can also be a bad thing.Not that they are reservedly on each side of the same coin.But i find i have learned so much about the world to my obvious advantage that conspiracy theories have done more good than harm in my case.
There are people i know who are totally reliant on the system created for us (aka mainstreamlife) to give them basis for their version of reality.
But i see quite clearly this way of living might be blissfull when things are going great but confusion or misdirection is often the result with these people when things arent going so great.Ignorance IS bliss when everything is blissfull imo.
The flipside is finding out what is actually going on in the world, which leads to a ton of misdirection in itself due to the nature of conspiracy theories being bogged down by misinformation.

As i always say i think its best to strike a balance and also be more self aware, so as to counter ignorance and misinformation.
Too many people are either bogged down with defending their own point of view to be able to even see other peoples perspectives or appreciate the validity of them.Or even to just let go of themselves or who they think they are and enter into what if discussions about some CT's without worrying they will lose themselves or their identity...maybe im wrong on that just a thought.

If i grew up in an enviornment where i was told that the colour blue is actually green and vice versa then in this isolated enviornment i meet a visitor who argues that the sky is actually blue i would laugh at him because i would already know that colour is obviously green...pft..tourists eh!
Its the same for all these conspiracy theories except that it is not so black and white..... or green and blue lol
People will have various different views on life and situations that have occurred.Everyones belief has a valid reason for being in their heads.Everyone is wrong at some stage,so its maybe the lack of this realisation mixed with a sense of loss of self based on our beliefs being wrong or taken away from us that is a bad thing as appose to the CT's themselves or too much of them maybe.
There is an issue with the brain though and repetition.If you see something enough times your brain will aknowledge it as existing and integrate it into your beliefs or memories from what i have been reading.So its wise to choose carefully or be very self aware when programming your brain and mind.Especially if its in the form of TV imo.After all dont people sometimes refer to tv shows as tv programs?What are we programming? The tv or the people watching it?maybe both.

mugs1

Torakx wrote: »

To answer your main question i think with some people too much conspiracy theory can be a bad thing.Just as i believe too much ignorance can also be a bad thing.Not that they are reservedly on each side of the same coin.But i find i have learned so much about the world to my obvious advantage that conspiracy theories have done more good than harm in my case.
There are people i know who are totally reliant on the system created for us (aka mainstreamlife) to give them basis for their version of reality.
But i see quite clearly this way of living might be blissfull when things are going great but confusion or misdirection is often the result with these people when things arent going so great.Ignorance IS bliss when everything is blissfull imo.
The flipside is finding out what is actually going on in the world, which leads to a ton of misdirection in itself due to the nature of conspiracy theories being bogged down by misinformation.

As i always say i think its best to strike a balance and also be more self aware, so as to counter ignorance and misinformation.
Too many people are either bogged down with defending their own point of view to be able to even see other peoples perspectives or appreciate the validity of them.Or even to just let go of themselves or who they think they are and enter into what if discussions about some CT's without worrying they will lose themselves or their identity...maybe im wrong on that just a thought.

If i grew up in an enviornment where i was told that the colour blue is actually green and vice versa then in this isolated enviornment i meet a visitor who argues that the sky is actually blue i would laugh at him because i would already know that colour is obviously green...pft..tourists eh!
Its the same for all these conspiracy theories except that it is not so black and white..... or green and blue lol
People will have various different views on life and situations that have occurred.Everyones belief has a valid reason for being in their heads.Everyone is wrong at some stage,so its maybe the lack of this realisation mixed with a sense of loss of self based on our beliefs being wrong or taken away from us that is a bad thing as appose to the CT's themselves or too much of them maybe.
There is an issue with the brain though and repetition.If you see something enough times your brain will aknowledge it as existing and integrate it into your beliefs or memories from what i have been reading.So its wise to choose carefully or be very self aware when programming your brain and mind.Especially if its in the form of TV imo.After all dont people sometimes refer to tv shows as tv programs?What are we programming? The tv or the people watching it?maybe both.

Some great points well made Torakx.

much appreciated,

tallus

mugs1 wrote: »

Hi tallus,

Yes I agree, I've seen alot of good counter arguments made, but all to often they are convienently ignored, and as such wild sweeping statments of unsubstantiated claims presented as fact, takes the place of intellegent debate!!

If counter arguments are being ignored that still doesn't negate the fact that people are still making them, and therefore I stand over my original point that nobody is getting away with a lack of logic or reason.
The checks and balances are still in place in my opinion.
If people choose to ignore opposition to their argument, that doesn't make said opposition disappear.

mugs1

bonkey wrote: »

Please read the charter. Pay attention to the bit which says :

Please don't use sweeping generalisations which indirectly attack or belittle other posters here.

I don't care one whit that your comment wasn't aimed at anyone "in particular". You made your comments about some posters, which means you clearly feel that some poster or posters here fir the bill. Not naming them doesn't make your insults acceptable.

Please also pay attention to the bit which says :

Don't argue with moderator decisions in-thread

hmm... there's no arguement here only healthy discussion, any chance you could repost this without your admin hat on?

that way I can respond in thread without fear of been banned!!

This is a public discussion forum after all is it not?

mugs1

AlcoholicA wrote: »

I think what OP means is there sometimes seems to a line between conspiracy theories and paranoia....

Not really paranoid, more that their is so much information out there that its far to easy to get bogged down in it and lose perspective!

mugs1

EnterNow wrote: »

I guess it's because so many stories are open to personal viewpoint/beliefs. You can basically create a conspiracy around a bottle of milk if you wish,

http://www.indianexpress.com/news/milk-we-drink-is-poison-ngo/619725/0

Who wants to run with this one!!!

uprising2

Was going to put this in the Bill Gates wants 50 trillion dead thread, but could be good here.

Citizens for Truth
:eek::eek::eek::eek:Who killed Bill Gates?:eek::eek::eek::eek:
If you thought you knew the answer to that question, we're glad you're here. Most Americans, depending on accounts reported in the mainstream media, believe that the assassination of Bill Gates has been solved to a certainty. Lone assassin, story finished, case closed.
But Citizens for Truth believes that the real story behind the assassination and aftermath has yet to be fully determined

http://www.citizensfortruth.org/

Yitzhak Rabin

uprising2 wrote: »

Was going to put this in the Bill Gates wants 50 trillion dead thread, but could be good here.

Citizens for Truth
:eek::eek::eek::eek:Who killed Bill Gates?:eek::eek::eek::eek:
If you thought you knew the answer to that question, we're glad you're here. Most Americans, depending on accounts reported in the mainstream media, believe that the assassination of Bill Gates has been solved to a certainty. Lone assassin, story finished, case closed.
But Citizens for Truth believes that the real story behind the assassination and aftermath has yet to be fully determined

http://www.citizensfortruth.org/

but....Bill Gates is alive?

uprising2

yekahs wrote: »

but....Bill Gates is alive?

Not any more!, he died in 1999.

Brown Bomber

uprising2 wrote: »

Not any more!, he died in 1999.

Thats what happens when you **** with George Clooney and his illuminati buddies.

mysterious

To much of anything is a bad thing, what a pointless thread that will "again" lead to silly arguments. How am I not surprised.:rolleyes:

mugs1

mysterious wrote: »

To much of anything is a bad thing, what a pointless thread that will "again" lead to silly arguments. How am I not surprised.:rolleyes:

Ha lol... What a pointless statment again!!!,what would you prefer, that we all come on here and just tell each other how clever we are, and how stupid all the sheeple are??

Brown Bomber

mugs1 wrote: »

Ha lol... What a pointless statment again!!!,what would you prefer, that we all come on here and just tell each other how clever we are, and how stupid all the sheeple are??

People need to get over the whole "sheeple" thing. Unless you are in a position of power we are all part of the same herd; just some of us are aware of that fact is all.

--Kaiser--

From my perusals of this forum it seems that there are only a handful of frequent posters, all of whom do seem to slap each other on the back and agree with each others theories and give the old :rolleyes: to the 'sheep' who don't agree with them. The fact that there is usually an absence of evidence for the theories ( and sometimes, in the case of moon landings, a great deal of evidence to the contrary) doesn't seem to impact the fervent belief held by the hardcore CTers.

It seems to me that a lot of these theories are reminiscent of Schizophreniform persecutary delusions, backed up by disorded thinking. Having some (albeit limited) experience of people with such disorders I can see similarities with some of the ideas that arise with such conditions and with some of the more far fetched conspiracy theories.

humanji

--Kaiser-- wrote: »

From my perusals of this forum it seems that there are only a handful of frequent posters, all of whom do seem to slap each other on the back and agree with each others theories and give the old :rolleyes: to the 'sheep' who don't agree with them. The fact that there is usually an absence of evidence for the theories ( and sometimes, in the case of moon landings, a great deal of evidence to the contrary) doesn't seem to impact the fervent belief held by the hardcore CTers.

It seems to me that a lot of these theories are reminiscent of Schizophreniform persecutary delusions, backed up by disorded thinking. Having some (albeit limited) experience of people with such disorders I can see similarities with some of the ideas that arise with such conditions and with some of the more far fetched conspiracy theories.

Or maybe there are too many questions left unanswered about the official stories and people want to find out what the answers are before coming to a conclusion?

--Kaiser--

humanji wrote: »

Or maybe there are too many questions left unanswered about the official stories and people want to find out what the answers are before coming to a conclusion?

Questioning things is fine, it's a sign of an open mind, but too many posters here seem to blindly accept things, like the below post 'I think this forum should be renamed Truth Theories'......based on a youtube clip???

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055954190

mugs1

humanji wrote: »

Or maybe there are too many questions left unanswered about the official stories and people want to find out what the answers are before coming to a conclusion?

Fair enough but making up answers to fit a theory because they want it to be true, or jumping to conclusions, based on at best flimsy evidence, at worst out right lies, is counter productive!

It just muddy's the water and makes more it difficult to get to any truth that might actually be there to find.

mysterious

I told you this thread was getting nowhere.

--Kaiser--

mysterious wrote: »

I told you this thread was getting nowhere.

You're missing a :rolleyes:

Brown Bomber

--Kaiser-- wrote: »

From my perusals of this forum it seems that there are only a handful of frequent posters, all of whom do seem to slap each other on the back and agree with each others theories and give the old :rolleyes: to the 'sheep' who don't agree with them. The fact that there is usually an absence of evidence for the theories ( and sometimes, in the case of moon landings, a great deal of evidence to the contrary) doesn't seem to impact the fervent belief held by the hardcore CTers. .

That's nice

--Kaiser-- wrote: »

It seems to me that a lot of these theories are reminiscent of Schizophreniform persecutary delusions, backed up by disorded thinking. Having some (albeit limited) experience of people with such disorders I can see similarities with some of the ideas that arise with such conditions and with some of the more far fetched conspiracy theories .

That's nice too

pschyology forum is here: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=604

Have fun!

Oh and a word to the wise you probably won't be able to insult the users in that forum like you did here with your most excellent response.

Brown Bomber

--Kaiser-- wrote: »

You're missing a :rolleyes:

Well he was proven correct, by you as it happens.

--Kaiser--

Brown Bomber wrote: »

That's nice
Oh and a word to the wise you probably won't be able to insult the users in that forum like you did here with your most excellent response.

Believe it or not I wasn't trying to insult posters here, I was expecting a reasoned debate but so far none has been forthcoming

Brown Bomber

Well you reap what you sow my friend.

there are only a handful of frequent posters, all of whom do seem to slap each other on the back and agree with each others theories

It seems to me that a lot of these theories are reminiscent of Schizophreniform persecutary delusions, backed up by disorded thinking

What did you expect a kiss on the cheek, if you weren't trolling you were completely lacking in any tact. You've directly accused the majority CT posters of having a mental illness.