Is it too late to go for the Dingle ultramarathon

diy1

Hi All, I have ran 3 marathons since the start of May for a total of 7. On each of the last 3 I got 10 minutes worse with problems especially around 17 miles. I had hoped to try for the Dingle ultramarathon. Two questions.
1) Is there someway to overcome my 17 mile issues. The backs of my legs get very sore and the head says stop.
2) Is it too late to train for 50 miles and could somebody suggest a training schedule if it is not too late.
The one positive thing is that my recovery time after a marthon seems to have got a lot better.
A 3rd quesiton is the Dingle Ultramarathon a crazy one to start with, I see it goes over the Conor pass.

Enduro

No more than my own personal opinions....

(1) try including cycling into your training, and some hillwork as well if possible. It'll get alot more of your muscles trained up. Ultras seek out your weak points. As for the head part... I'm afraid a concrete milkshake is the only real cure (HTFU in other words!)
(2) Its late, but if you've already run 3 marathons then I reckon you're actually in a pretty good position.
(3) There are very few ultras that aren't crazy. Nothing wrong with trying. Better to try and fail than not try at all. It's the only real way to find if you can do it.

My main piece of advice... slow down...pace yourself. 50 hilly miles is a long long way. You'll need to really back off on the pace, especially for the first 40 miles (Not a joke).

Oisin11178

your falling apart after 17 miles in a marathon and you want to do 50 miles down in dingle. You need as enduro said really slow down your pace and do as much hill work as you can. This really isnt a beginners ultra.

TFBubendorfer

Oisin11178 wrote: »

This really isnt a beginners ultra.

There is such a thing as a beginner's Ultra?

I know Connemara is only 39 miles and as such well suited to tip your toe into ultra running, but I would not have tried running it after only 3 marathons that had gone sour after 17 miles. Neither would I try Dingle in those circumstances, but who knows, maybe the slower pace of an ultra is the answer to your problems. Only one way to find out, but if you get into trouble with 33 miles still to go ... :eek:

A few weeks ago someone helpfully pointed out to me that there must be something wrong with your head if you want to run 50 miles, so in one way we're all in the same boat.

mithril

TFBubendorfer wrote: »

There is such a thing as a beginner's Ultra?
Only one way to find out, but if you get into trouble with 33 miles still to go.

I think you need to be able to finish a marathon comfortably before you should look at stepping up to a 50 mile race. Injury risk would be very high otherwise.

In Dingle, there is an easy bail-out option since you arrive in the town 25 miles into the run and then do another route around the coast. You could make a call at this point whether you want to go on.

Krusty_Clown

diy1 wrote: »

On each of the last 3 I got 10 minutes worse with problems especially around 17 miles.

What problems?
Describe your training? How many training runs over 19 miles?

Oisin11178

By beginners ultra i mean one that is slightly longer than a marathon and flat ect...
Portumna last week would have been ideal at 50km. People are fixated with conn on here.
Feel free to knit pick this post to if you want.

TFBubendorfer

Oisin11178 wrote: »

Feel free to knit pick this post to if you want.

OK

Oisin11178 wrote: »

People are fixated with conn on here.

Yup, it's my favourite race. What's wrong with that?

Oisin11178

TFBubendorfer wrote: »

OK



Yup, it's my favourite race. What's wrong with that?

Conn is a pretty hard ultra to start off with. Baby steps:D

Krusty_Clown

Oisin11178 wrote: »

Conn is a pretty hard ultra to start off with. Baby steps:D

Before Portumna (50k), I don't think there was anything that could be classified as shorter/easier than Connemara in Ultra-specific terms. The Wicklow Way Ultra may be substantially shorter than Connemara, but it is far more difficult. Was/is there anything else?

mithril

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

Was/is there anything else?

Galway 50k is new this year as well on August 29th.

On the other extreme, the Mourne Way Ultra is probably the toughest Ultra in the country with the possible exception of some of the more extreme adventure races.

Oisin11178

Your thinking to insular krusty:-)
With the price of flights dirt cheap england is a tiny hop away. Tonnes of ultras over there.

diy1

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

What problems?
Describe your training? How many training runs over 19 miles?

None over 19 miles. I would generally do a few of 13, two of 15 and one of 18 or 19 in preparing. I had hoped that the 3 marathons in 7 weeks meant I had two 26 mile training runs for the 3rd one.

For the first one I ran at whatever speed I felt like and lost it at 17 miles. In Cork I tried to run steady and ran perfect to 17 miles and the miles around 13 / 14 miles were within a 5 second band. Then last Saturday week I decided to run steady again and weakened early as the sun came out but was still going reasonably well until 17 miles despite an energy bomb at 12 miles. The one thing that has improved is that I don't suffer any lingering pains or aches after the marathons and could run again the following day. Some 3 different strategies, heavy rain and wind, good sunshine and the same result at 17 miles.

Krusty_Clown

Hi diy1, you have two real issues:
(1) how to train for a marathon
(2) How to train for an ultra

If you can't get (1) right, you're really going to struggle to get (2) right. I can only make guesses based on the information you've provided, but the mileage you are running in preparation for the marathon sounds insufficient, and the length of your long runs is not giving you an opportunity to develop a sound endurance base.

I'm not an ultra expert having only run one of them (on the back of marathon training) but I would suggest you shelve thoughts of an ultra until you can run a marathon comfortably at a consistent pace without suffering a slow-down after 17 miles. The key to achieving that is to get your endurance right, through following a structured program with an emphasis on long runs (with 3-5 x 20 mile runs). Maybe you should consider following one of HalHigdons Intermediate marathon plans that will help you to reach your target. The other key factor is pacing them correctly. If you head out on the ultra at a similar pace, you'll likely hit the same invisible barrier after 17 miles, however, the finish line will be a lot further away.

You didn't mention how your first four marathons went? Did these go successfully, without a slow-down?

Aimman

I'd agree with Krusty, I think 50M is a big single step from a marathon and the training does put more of an emphasis on endurance. For a start there's the extra long runs and doubling up on LSRs at the weekends etc. Secondly, there is also a psychological element to overcome, only 80 participants max in Dingle, so the spread is going to be very thin on the road, and its not a spectator sport. There's wont be a lot of crowd support to bring you along whe you need it. Its going to be a big difference to running a popular marathon.

I think the Galway 50k is a world championship event and is invitation only, and Portumna is another year away now. Dont know about many more home grown Ultras as an alternative to Conn in the next few months

hot to trot

Im in a similar mind frame as you so if you dont mind my hijacking - can I ask a question....
I would quite liked to have trained for the Dingle 50 as well but I thought that there was a qualifying distance of at least 39 miles to do before your registration was accepted. Is this still true??? Thats why I ended up backing off after Portumna. ( feeling a bit lost since)

I had done 26/10 saturday/ sunday runs x4 and lots of 20/10's. If I want to do Conne ultra or comrades next year , is it too early to keep doing these as a base ?

ultraman1

Aimman wrote: »

I think the Galway 50k is a world championship event and is invitation only,

its open with a 5hr cut off ....

ultraman1

hot to trot wrote: »

Im in a similar mind frame as you so if you dont mind my hijacking - can I ask a question....
I would quite liked to have trained for the Dingle 50 as well but I thought that there was a qualifying distance of at least 39 miles to do before your registration was accepted. Is this still true??? Thats why I ended up backing off after Portumna. ( feeling a bit lost since)

I had done 26/10 saturday/ sunday runs x4 and lots of 20/10's. If I want to do Conne ultra or comrades next year , is it too early to keep doing these as a base ?

dont think there is a qualifier for dingle..ull need to take a rest some time and you may lose some endurance,but you will find it will come a bit easier than when you gained it first....

TFBubendorfer

hot to trot wrote: »

I thought that there was a qualifying distance of at least 39 miles to do before your registration was accepted. Is this still true???

In his original email, the RD mentioned these qualifying criteria but there is nothing at the website now, apart from a strict 11 hour cut-off (which really is rather generous in my opinion).

Thinking about it now, there was also no beep about any qualifying criteria when I signed up, so I guess you're free to go if you want to.

diy1

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

Hi diy1, you have two real issues:
(1) how to train for a marathon
(2) How to train for an ultra

If you can't get (1) right, you're really going to struggle to get (2) right. I can only make guesses based on the information you've provided, but the mileage you are running in preparation for the marathon sounds insufficient, and the length of your long runs is not giving you an opportunity to develop a sound endurance base.

I'm not an ultra expert having only run one of them (on the back of marathon training) but I would suggest you shelve thoughts of an ultra until you can run a marathon comfortably at a consistent pace without suffering a slow-down after 17 miles. The key to achieving that is to get your endurance right, through following a structured program with an emphasis on long runs (with 3-5 x 20 mile runs). Maybe you should consider following one of HalHigdons Intermediate marathon plans that will help you to reach your target. The other key factor is pacing them correctly. If you head out on the ultra at a similar pace, you'll likely hit the same invisible barrier after 17 miles, however, the finish line will be a lot further away.

You didn't mention how your first four marathons went? Did these go successfully, without a slow-down?

Hi Krusty, the Halhigdons site is a good one. Looking at it I was training to somewhere between an Intermediate 1 and 2. Typically 3x5.5 miles during the week, 9 miles on a Saturday and then a variable long run on the Sunday. I started training Jan 14th for the Limerick marathon on the May weekend having run Cork and Dublin last year.This year I had seen the Limerick Marathon as part of my training for Cork and then another one 3 weeks later meant Cork could also be a training run. As I said earlier however Limerick was the best finishing time but it also had the best weather of the 3. Sounds like two options. Option 1 ) Go and give blood as I generally stop while training but would be interested to see how it affects me and then enter Dublin. Option 2) Go as far down a 50 mile training program as I can in 6 weeks with the intention to start Dingle but not finish so as to get a feel for the course for next year. I do feel 50 is achievabled next year but the 100k in Portumna is a very big stretch and the Connemara race would mean training over the Winter. Anybody planning a 39 miler?