another suspended sentence

Giselle

thebigbiffo wrote: »

i'm saying there are mitigating circumstances, that's all. if those include her being a hussy, looking over the age of 13, being well aware of her actions and basically acting like an adult then so be it, and the judge is right to take that into account.

Obviously this sexually predatory, admittedly previously abused experience, outwardly older-looking child slapper, ensnared these gullible men into acts they'd never consider doing if they knew the truth.

Just WHO is the victim here?!???!:)

FUNKY LOVER

the age of consent in spain is 13.so basically cause in ireland the age is 17 so therefore we must percieve it as wrong,yet its right in spain???

K-9

OutlawPete wrote: »

Why?

Sounds like these school shelters were a place were many people hung out.

I can show you many other school shelters in Ireland, that at the weekend are full of teens drinking.

The school shelters that I drank in as a kid are still being used today for the same purposes we used them, it has zero to do with this case.

This girl kept a diary of the men she was with and seemed to be actively fooling older boys that she was not underage.

There is one thing in the report that sounded odd though, that he met her on her confirmation day, did he know that it was her confirmation day or what?

Strange that not more emphasis was put on this as that would change things entirely.



13 and 14 year olds are dolled up though, that's the point.



They can't take mistakes in regards to a girls age in ANY case now, that's the point.

It has been removed in law so that it can no longer be used as a defense.



If he thought she was over the legal age, then why is there a big difference?

He doesn't seem to be claiming the "she looked older" defence though, in this case. The confirmation point maybe important. It's a small town and I'd be surprised he wasn't aware she was under age.

Mrmoe

OutlawPete wrote: »

Why?

Sounds like these school shelters were a place were many people hung out.

I can show you many other school shelters in Ireland, that at the weekend are full of teens drinking.

The school shelters that I drank in as a kid are still being used today for the same purposes we used them, it has zero to do with this case.

This girl kept a diary of the men she was with and seemed to be actively fooling older boys that she was not underage.

There is one thing in the report that sounded odd though, that he met her on her confirmation day, did he know that it was her confirmation day or what?

Strange that not more emphasis was put on this as that would change things entirely.

I am not saying that this alone should act as definitive proof that she is underage. If this was a common place for teenagers to hang out then it would seem logical that some will be underage and some will be old enough to consent. The problem was that this guy ploughed ahead regardless. It would be different if it was situated in a pub or club. You are less likely to have underage people there. They are more likely to be out the back of the school bush drinking.

OutlawPete wrote: »

13 and 14 year olds are dolled up though, that's the point.

It is definitely possible that a 13 year old could look 17 but you should not rely on this alone. Myself I can be mistaken for being a sweet innocent 12 year old but if I hold a conversation with some one I sould like the crotchety old man I feel.

OutlawPete wrote: »

They can't take mistakes in regards to a girls age in ANY case now, that's the point.

It has been removed in law so that it can no longer be used as a defense.



If he thought she was over the legal age, then why is there a big difference?

In the case of two underage people I would be more lenient in sentencing but not in this case as one of them is legally considered an adult. In my view a 16 year old teen should be held less acountable than a 19 year old adult.

Orla K

Just wondering where people are getting their info on the case, someone said before that she had sex with 30 men anything I've read it's been 21/22 men.

And she didn't go around fooling all the guys about her age, one that is I think in jail now knew her age and had sex with her in his bed as his wife was having his second child(and that was just one of the times he had sex with her) He was given 2 years with 15 months suspended.


I think this guy(in the op) should have got off lightly but not as lightly as he did.

(I think this other guy should have gotten alot more than two years too)

law86

This was happening in a community where the girl was known by reputation, several men were sleeping wtih her and at least some of them knew her age, they admitted it to the Gardai. The investigating Garda believed for a while that there was organised abuse going on, such was the relationship between the men.

To all of those arguing that it's hard to tell sometimes, etc, this really doesn't seem to be the case here.

This was an extremely damaged child, with useless f*ckwit parents, who sought attention from older men. Do you really think you'd see it as an opportunity to throw the leg over, even if you thought she was 14, 15, 16, 17...

I think it's safe to assume that all involved were knackers of the highest order.
Especially the girl. How she was even able to write is the real question..

Giselle

Rojomcdojo wrote: »

I think it's safe to assume that all involved were knackers of the highest order.
Especially the girl. How she was even able to write is the real question..

So a kid is brought up by crap parents with no self esteem, no self worth, no value at all, is abused by 20-30 ADULT men, is only twelve years old at the time of the abuse by these MEN, but this child is a bigger knacker?

Jesus, that's rich.

Giselle

Giselle wrote: »

So a kid is brought up by crap parents with no self esteem, no self worth, no value at all, is abused by 20-30 ADULT men, is only twelve years old at the time of the abuse by these MEN, but this child is a bigger knacker?

Jesus, that's rich.

She has sex with the guys, writes it all down, then goes to the police.

But I guess you have a point, they are all equally as knackery - none more knackery than the other. The best sentence the judge could have handed out would be a tactical nuclear strike on her entire town.


Just to add, she does indeed have no value. If anything a negative value. Wonder how many sproggs she has now.

sam34

easyeason3 wrote: »

Yeah the someway fishy is that no matter how developed you are or tarted up as a 12 year old you will still look like a child & unless these men were Stevie Wonder I fail to see how they couldn't have known.

not necessarily

without wanting to go down the "young wans today " route, i cannot get over how grown up some young teenagers look nowadays

i met a cousin of my sister-in-law recently, i had no idea of her age but guessed by her looks that she was 20 or 21

sitting at the dinnertable, i was amazed and jealous of her self-confidence and poise, and i was thinking to myself that she was so lucky at 20/21 to have that self-confidence that i still dont have even though im nearly 31.
i nearly fainted when the waitress came round with the wine and the girl said "no thanks, sure i'm only 13" :eek:

without meaning to sound crude, she had a lovely feminine figure, developed breasts etc. she'd easily pass for 21.

having said that, i have a niece who is 21 and she looks about 12, so it works both ways i guess

sam34

sam34 wrote: »

not necessarily

without wanting to go down the "young wans today " route, i cannot get over how grown up some young teenagers look nowadays

i met a cousin of my sister-in-law recently, i had no idea of her age but guessed by her looks that she was 20 or 21

sitting at the dinnertable, i was amazed and jealous of her self-confidence and poise, and i was thinking to myself that she was so lucky at 20/21 to have that self-confidence that i still dont have even though im nearly 31.
i nearly fainted when the waitress came round with the wine and the girl said "no thanks, sure i'm only 13" :eek:

without meaning to sound crude, she had a lovely feminine figure, developed breasts etc. she'd easily pass for 21.

having said that, i have a niece who is 21 and she looks about 12, so it works both ways i guess

You're not a priest by any chance?

Dravokivich

FUNKY LOVER wrote: »

the age of consent in spain is 13.so basically cause in ireland the age is 17 so therefore we must percieve it as wrong,yet its right in spain???

yeah... and in Russia it's 14... fúck Ireland is so backward...

More to the topic at hand in regards to this guy's case there are 2 issues:

1) 19 year old bloke got sexually involved with an under age girl. <- This I think is disgusting.

2) Under age girl was making note and keeping the names of all the guys she was banging. <- to me this sounds like she was baiting the guys to do her.

I still think Point 1 is disgusting... but Point 2 needs to hold some weight here and is the reason behind the more lenient setentancing. I do agree that the blokes involved should have the sense to not be involved with her, but she's gone and played them big time.

Not to keen on repeating myself when I try to keep a message short and simple...

The above is what I meant when I said this earlier...

K-9

Rojomcdojo wrote: »

She has sex with the guys, writes it all down, then goes to the police.

But I guess you have a point, they are all equally as knackery - none more knackery than the other. The best sentence the judge could have handed out would be a tactical nuclear strike on her entire town.


Just to add, she does indeed have no value. If anything a negative value. Wonder how many sproggs she has now.

Good God of almighty. You know many 12 year old girls?

K-9

K-9 wrote: »

Good God of almighty. You know many 12 year old girls?

None. Why, is this common occurrence?

law86

Rojomcdojo wrote: »

She has sex with the guys, writes it all down, then goes to the police.

But I guess you have a point, they are all equally as knackery - none more knackery than the other. The best sentence the judge could have handed out would be a tactical nuclear strike on her entire town.


Just to add, she does indeed have no value. If anything a negative value. Wonder how many sproggs she has now.

She kept the diary to keep track of her periods, and to ascertain who might be the father should she fall pregnant.
SHE WAS A KID.

K-9

Rojomcdojo wrote: »

None. Why, is this common occurrence?

No.

law86

law86 wrote: »

She kept the diary to keep track of her periods, and to ascertain who might be the father should she fall pregnant.
SHE WAS A KID.

And your point is?

law86

Made.

Gunsfortoys

Regardless of what the child has done, this problem lies at the feet of the parents, surely to god the mother or father(as much worthless as an empty crisp packet) knew what the hell was going on. How the hell can a dad stand by and let his daughter get screwed by so many men and not have the nuts to do anything. She is a child and still needs attention at that age, she needs to be taught right from wrong. The parents have failed in this respect. I agree with Outlawpete with the girls looking a lot older these days but men are conscious of this and the accused is an idiot for not realising it, also the fact that she has a reputation didn't seem to bother the ****er.

easyeason3

OutlawPete wrote: »

Younger than 17 though?

Certain sections of society has almost made sexuality in young people a taboo.

Young girls are supposed to be sexy when they start to go though puberty, as are young boys - that's just nature.

Most people adults realise how precious young people's sexuality is and how we can regret decisions made when young, so we have an age of consent.

However, sometimes young men can be surrounded by young girls and can easily believe that a 13 year is in fact 17.

The fact that the girl also says they are, compounds the issue

Look at Traci Lords, she made a few dozen porn movies and became the the No1 pornstar in America at the time, fooling the public and an entire adult industry that she was of legal age.



So how should they be able to tell then?

When a girl is 13 but looks 18 and over, how are they supposed to know exactly?

Here's Aliana Lohan on the front cover of a magazine, she was 14 at the time.

You see I have a huge problem with what you have said there.
This wasn't a young girl experimenting with make up or going to a teenage disco.
Children that are 12 years of age should not be sexualized in any way. And yes I know they are at an age where they experimenting with clothes & make up.
But there is a huge difference between putting on a bit of eyeliner & going out tarted up looking for some action.
Those men have a responsibility whether they like it or not but most of the blame falls at the feet of the girls parents.

And your argument that it's hard to tell when they look older is a bit weakin my book. If the girl was even 14 or 15 I would have more sympathy for those men because it would have been harder to tell.

But 12? Thats stretching it a bit, she's not even a teenager ffs.

prinz

Rojomcdojo wrote: »

She has sex with the guys, writes it all down, then goes to the police.

This IMO is a crucial point and one that seems to have passed you by. She didn't go running to the police. Others went to the police about it all. She was already in care and eventually cooperated with the authorities.

jackiebaron

El Siglo wrote: »

There's a reason why there's an age of consent. Fuck sake, what fucking planet are people on? Oh she knew what she was doing, bullshit, she's still a fucking child. A bit of a dampner on the wedding? It's amazing how everyone was so willing to jump on the Ryan Report bandwagon last year, blame the catholic church for abusing children and yet a fucker like this sexually assaults a child and gets a suspended sentence? Or the stupid bint he's marrying actually goes ahead with it. I wouldn't be surprised if he's up in court again for abusing any of the children he might have in the future. God might fucking forgive you, but the state shouldn't. I'm not surprised anymore, people are fucking retarded.

Lighten up there, Judge Roy. You don't know the facts of the case and all of a sudden you are the hanging jury. Knee-jerk reactions and zero tolerance approaches are not cool or macho. They lead to miscarriages of justice, draconian measures and cruelty. Not long ago a homeless person was set upon in Dublin and beaten to death by a gang of youths. Now on paper you would have wanted them all put before a firing squad and shot. Upon further examination of this tragic incident it turned out that one of the youths was the stepson (or nephew, I can't temember) of the assault victim. The homeless (semi-homeless, really) man had a history of brutally assaulting the stepson and subjecting him to savage physical and sexual abuse. Kinda changes the equation doesn't it? In a fit of despair and overall rage (probably fuelled by alcohol as well) the kid rounded up some of his friends to give his tormenter a good hiding. Only it went further than maybe he intended and the guy died. Still want the firing squad at the ready?

In sentencing someone the judge has to take into account whether the custodial sentence will serve its intended purpose. So Lowther had sex with this girl in the back of a car when he was 18 and she was 12 or 13. 18 isn't exactly the age when you are so much more mature and rational than when you were 15 or 16. Maybe he's a scumbag...but that's not a crime. The judge also has to weigh up whether jailing this guy will do more harm than good. Will it protect society from a sexual predator? Will it "rehabillitate" someone? Moreover will it deprive two children of a father (albeit probably a fairly stupid father) in the young years of their lives? Banging up this guy who has a job and a family to support will do one thing. It will contribute to the creation of two more chav kids for society to enjoy as well as a wife/mother who can't support herself or them.
I agree the guy needs to be punished and if he so much as drops a piece of litter in the next 5 years he's going to the big house. But there are other guys coming before the courts who are connected with this case and they were a lot older and a lot wiser than Lowther and are accused of having sex with this girl. Their punishments could be a lot more acute than suspensions.

law86

I agree that the sentences must reflect the gravity of the crime, and there were grey areas in this case but it's a positive step that there were prosecutions and that this behaviour is seen as intolerable.

Most people knew this kid in one form or another, in some town around the country, and there were always rapacious dipsh*ts waiting in the wings to take advantage of her on one hand, and call her a slag on the other.

jackiebaron

brianthebard wrote: »

Agree with this, the headline is very misleading, yes it was a case of statutory rape, but that's an outdated concept that should be done away with, there needs to be more accountability on both sides and consideration of the facts, not a cut and dry conviction based solely on age. If anything that's probably what the judge did here, but instead of being considered progressive or thoughtful he's an idiot that got to be a judge by collecting tea bag tokens. Additionally, people here need to realise that the statutory rape rule is equally applicable to a 16 year old and her boyfriend who's a month older than her as it is to this chap. Is that really the sort of absolutist, no consideration of the facts sort of legal system we want to continue to use?

Well said, Brian. A 16 year old girl and her 16 year old (plus a month) boyfriend are in a legal relationship. He turns 17..they are now in an illegal relationship. And a month later the relationship becomes legal again. It's farcical. Not only that but if this hypothetical 17/16 year old couple were having sex in Donegal, the 17 year-old would be accused of statutory rape but if they walked hand in hand 20 yards across the border and shagged in Derry everything would be fine since the age of consent there is 16.
People are too lazy to think these days. They trot out cliches like "mandatory sentencing" and "zero tolerance" and all that crap without making the effort to approach the subject from all angles. Equating underage sex with murder regarding the minimum sentence that should be applied therein is cretinous.

Consent and non-consent are concepts that the mob here just can't seem to separate.
I'll spell it out right now. Non-consensual sex is a crime no matter if the victim is 5, 15 or 50. The age of consent in Europe ranges from 14 to 18 for sex. So it would appear that many are quite certain that a 14 year-old can make a sound decision whether or not to engage in sexual activity at the age of 14 and only a fool would disagree that some 13 and 12 year olds are also mentally equipped to make this choice.
Let's take the concept of violence. This too falls into the category of consensual and non-consensual. Non-consensual violence against anyone is more commonly termed "assault" and is illegal. However, there IS such a thing as consensual violence and there doesn't seem to be an age of consent for this. I've seen kids as young as 6 steaming into each other in boxing clubs and competitions.

How is it that beating the tar out of each other builds "character" and "discipline" yet a young woman who is more sexually mature, mentally advanced and physically developed than her peers is an aberration?

Maybe this girl was a troubled kid who yearned for any kind of attention to make up for her insecurities and threw herself at every and any man she could find and as a consequence got taken advantage of by these assholes. Maybe she did look quite older than 12 and more appealing than a pre-teen would normally be. That's irrelevant. These guys committed crimes and all the circumstances should be weighed up. But for these people on here to bay for blood and belch forth the rantings of a mob is nauseating and pathetic. It goes to show that they simply let their emotions steer their arguments because to do otherwise wold involve a bit of brainpower, a bit or restraint and a bit of cool-headed rationale.

Seems in very short-supply.

jackiebaron

jackiebaron wrote: »

Well said, Brian. A 16 year old girl and her 16 year old (plus a month) boyfriend are in a legal relationship. He turns 17..they are now in an illegal relationship. And a month later the relationship becomes legal again. It's farcical.

The relationship itself isn't illegal...

prinz

jackiebaron wrote: »

These guys committed crimes and all the circumstances should be weighed up. But for these people on here to bay for blood and belch forth the rantings of a mob is nauseating and pathetic. It goes to show that they simply let their emotions steer their arguments because to do otherwise wold involve a bit of brainpower, a bit or restraint and a bit of cool-headed rationale..

Thinking a suspended sentence in thid case is on the lenient side has nothing to do with mob-rule, ranting, emotions, lack of engaging the brain or lack of rationale.

jackiebaron

easyeason3 wrote: »

You see I have a huge problem with what you have said there.
This wasn't a young girl experimenting with make up or going to a teenage disco.
Children that are 12 years of age should not be sexualized in any way. And yes I know they are at an age where they experimenting with clothes & make up.
But there is a huge difference between putting on a bit of eyeliner & going out tarted up looking for some action.
Those men have a responsibility whether they like it or not but most of the blame falls at the feet of the girls parents.

And your argument that it's hard to tell when they look older is a bit weakin my book. If the girl was even 14 or 15 I would have more sympathy for those men because it would have been harder to tell.

But 12? Thats stretching it a bit, she's not even a teenager ffs.

I agree that there is a difference between putting on a bit of lippy and going to a teeny-bopper disco, and going out on the prowl but you can't just say that your limits/standards apply to all. I know 12 is amazingly young and most girls this age are still innocently practicing the Britney (or whoever the package-pop queen du jour is) steps in their bedrooms and are still interested in horses and swimming rather than boys.....BUT there are exceptions. Some 12 and 13 year old girls are fully sexually developed. They are almost overnight thrown into a very annoying and confusing quandary. They're too mature for their childish, giggling peers yet they're too young to associate with those with whom they may have more in common. Some girls navigate this channel with skill and lead a double life of going to gigs and hanging out with musicians and people much older than themselves whilst during the day they take on human form again and study for their Inter Cert. Others don't quite handle it as well and become insecure or promiscuous.

Yes 12, I think, is too young. But my first girlfriend got her period when she was 10. Barely out of nappies and she's shopping for tampons and bras.

gooch2k9

Inter Cert?

law86

Saying that there should be repercussions for these acts is not baying for blood. The last several posts have been quite moderate and willing to see the nuances in this situation.

At the end of it all, a young girl was abused, of course there should be some repercussions. Just because a kid develops physically doesn't mean she has adult mental faculties.

Orla K

law86 wrote: »

Saying that there should be repercussions for these acts is not baying for blood. The last several posts have been quite moderate and willing to see the nuances in this situation.

At the end of it all, a young girl was abused, of course there should be some repercussions. Just because a kid develops physically doesn't mean she has adult mental faculties.

And she really wasn't mentally/emotionally prepared for any of it

From her Victim impact statement
"I would run away from the home to take drugs, do anything to block out the reality of my life. I would cut myself. My legs and arms were covered in scars.

"I hated my life. I wanted to die."

jackiebaron

gooch2k9 wrote: »

Inter Cert?

Old name for the Junior Cert exams, sorry.

jackiebaron

Orla K wrote: »

And she really wasn't mentally/emotionally prepared for any of it

From her Victim impact statement
"I would run away from the home to take drugs, do anything to block out the reality of my life. I would cut myself. My legs and arms were covered in scars.

"I hated my life. I wanted to die."

You won't find me vilifying this young girl like others on the forum. Nor will you find me demanding that the abusers be burnt at the stake. Some people seem to think that every issue in life is black and white whether it be rednecks screaming for Muslims to all be gassed to death and if you disagree then you are a terrorist sympathiser. Or if you empathise with gays wanting to get married then you are an enemy of the family or some such crap.
This young girl is a tragedy and she is as deserving of society's protection as much as all of those who call her a knacker/skanger/slag. The assholes who took advantage of her need to be punished but again they are as deserving of fair trials as the people who would want them hanged. They are also deserving of just sentencing within the framework of the law and at the discretion of the judge. The whole issue of the age of consent was brought up to cast a boilerplate on this case when one cannot apply. The age of consent is a tricky topic and exists (let's face it) to warn off the adult rather than protect the minor.

Because people are so frightened of the ugly side of human nature and the uncomfortable ills that plague every society they either try to gloss over it (she's a slut...it's her fault) or they overract to a scenario that scares and disgusts them (hang the guys who abused her). This kind of flippant dismissal or knee-jerk reaction is the lazy and cowardly way out. It allows people to shirk their responsibilities as citizens so they don't have to face up to uncomfortable truths and get to the root of the problem thereby coming closer to a solution.

OutlawPete

easyeason3 wrote: »

Children that are 12 years of age should not be sexualized in any way.

Who is talking about sexualizing young girls?

easyeason3 wrote: »

Those men have a responsibility whether they like it or not but most of the blame falls at the feet of the girls parents.

Both sexes have some responsibility to make sure the person that wants to have sex with them is of legal age.

When I was a kid, I was with a woman from Bath, England on holidays in Spain.

She knew I was underage but didn't care, did she commit a crime?

I'm not so sure as Spansih law seems to say 14 is the legal ago of consent.

easyeason3 wrote: »

And your argument that it's hard to tell when they look older is a bit weakin my book.

I was not talking about this specific case, as none of us know what the girl looks like.

I was talking about the real world where some 12 year old girls, look and act like adults and some adults act and look like children.

You may be happy with a law that says men can not use a defense that they believed a girl to be of age, but I am not as I believe it a human rights issue.

Law should always be based on intent and not automatic guilt for people who have no idea they are committing a crime.

easyeason3 wrote: »

But 12? Thats stretching it a bit, she's not even a teenager ffs.

Simple question.

If a nineteen year old man met Faryl Smith when she was 14 and she told him she was 17 and they ended up having sex.

Do you think he should have no right in a court of law to say that he was mistaken in regards to the her age?

Here she is giving an interview at 14:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zhfr1IdVKUw

Orla K

jackiebaron wrote: »

You won't find me vilifying this young girl like others on the forum. Nor will you find me demanding that the abusers be burnt at the stake. Some people seem to think that every issue in life is black and white whether it be rednecks screaming for Muslims to all be gassed to death and if you disagree then you are a terrorist sympathiser. Or if you empathise with gays wanting to get married then you are an enemy of the family or some such crap.
This young girl is a tragedy and she is as deserving of society's protection as much as all of those who call her a knacker/skanger/slag. The assholes who took advantage of her need to be punished but again they are as deserving of fair trials as the people who would want them hanged. They are also deserving of just sentencing within the framework of the law and at the discretion of the judge. The whole issue of the age of consent was brought up to cast a boilerplate on this case when one cannot apply. The age of consent is a tricky topic and exists (let's face it) to warn off the adult rather than protect the minor.

Because people are so frightened of the ugly side of human nature and the uncomfortable ills that plague every society they either try to gloss over it (she's a slut...it's her fault) or they overract to a scenario that scares and disgusts them (hang the guys who abused her). This kind of flippant dismissal or knee-jerk reaction is the lazy and cowardly way out. It allows people to shirk their responsibilities as citizens so they don't have to face up to uncomfortable truths and get to the root of the problem thereby coming closer to a solution.

I don't know why you've quoted my post, all I was saying is that she wasn't mentally/emotionally prepared for what happened to her.

K_user

Didn't a guy get jail a couple of years ago for swapping mobile credit for picture messages? I think he was in his 20's and the girls were in their teens.

The images were taken from the "safety" of a girls room, sent across the phone network to a complete stranger. And yet a guy walks free after actually messing around with a 12 year old in person?

Surely he should have a sentence of some sort to serve? Or is that just me?


I'm reminded of a story I read in a paper a few years back, comparing jail sentences to the crimes committed. A guy who had attacked and robbed pensioners, in their own homes, walked out scott free - sorry suspended sentence - yet a woman who refused to pay her bin charges got a couple of months in prison...

law86

QUOTE=OutlawPete "I was not talking about this specific case, as none of us know what the girl looks like.
I was talking about the real world where some 12 year old girls, look and act like adults and some adults act and look like children."


This case is the real world, and this thread is about the specifics of this case.

We all know that there are kids who look and behave older than they actually are but as already posted, it seems that in the instant case, the men were aware of this child's age.

I believe that the honest belief defence should be available in all cases, then left to a jury to decide whether or not they believe the accused.


I don't want to see anyone hung, drawn and quartered either but I come down on the side of the kid, not the side of the assholes who saw an obviously damaged young girl as an opportunity to get sex.

OutlawPete

law86 wrote: »

This case is the real world..

I never said it wasn't.

I am saying that comments implying that nobody could ever mistake a 13 year old as over 17, are not in the real world.

law86 wrote: »

..and this thread is about the specifics of this case.

Many comments made on this thread, by myself and others, ARE NOT about the specifics of this case.

They are general comments in response to general statements.

In fact, my first reply on this thread was in response to such a statement, this one:

easyeason3 wrote: »

.. no matter how developed you are or tarted up as a 12 year old you will still look like a child ..

The only comments I have made regarding the specifics of this case, were re: her diary, why more emphasis was not placed on the fact that the guy was with her on the day of her confirmation and that school shelters been the location was irrelevant.

easyeason3

OutlawPete wrote: »

Who is talking about sexualizing young girls?



Both sexes have some responsibility to make sure the person that wants to have sex with them is of legal age.

When I was a kid, I was with a woman from Bath, England on holidays in Spain.

She knew I was underage but didn't care, did she commit a crime?

I'm not so sure as Spansih law seems to say 14 is the legal ago of consent.



I was not talking about this specific case, as none of us know what the girl looks like.

I was talking about the real world where some 12 year old girls, look and act like adults and some adults act and look like children.

You may be happy with a law that says men can not use a defense that they believed a girl to be of age, but I am not as I believe it a human rights issue.

Law should always be based on intent and not automatic guilt for people who have no idea they are committing a crime.



Simple question.

If a nineteen year old man met Faryl Smith when she was 14 and she told him she was 17 and they ended up having sex.

Do you think he should have no right in a court of law to say that he was mistaken in regards to the her age?

Here she is giving an interview at 14:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zhfr1IdVKUw

And you keep giving examples of teenage hollywood wannabe starlets that have make up, hair & tan done & also are being interviewed in an adult setting & I'm fairly sure they would have been prepped on what to say so they don't come across as being immature. So while they look older it still doesn't cut the mustard with me.

This happened in a small town where there is a very strong chance Lowther knew her age. Regardless of whether he was 'duped' or not is irrelevant because he effectively broke the law, not with a teenager, but with a child.

Given the nice weather we have been having recently the amount of young girls walking around town wearing shorts up their ass & skimpy tops is a little bit disturbing. Yes they have fantastic bodies but the clothes their parents are allowing them out in is nothing short of disgusting. You see men ranging in age from 16 to 50 openly gawking at them & what's worse is that these girls seem to enjoy the attention even if it is from a man in his 40's/ 50's that has a young family himself if not children their age.

I can understand where you are coming from. At 15/ 16 I was able to get into nightclubs because I made myself look older. I was asked for ID once & I was 19 at that stage. It is very easy to look older but to act it is another thing.

law86

Fair enough, Outlaw but the thread was started about this case and it bothers me that the reaction is to do with men who mistakenly have sex with underage girls and get tried for it.

These guys were brought to court on the specifics of the case which the thread refers to and so they should have been.

rovert

Wow an AH suspened sentence thread where people are making reasonable points.

law86

rovert wrote: »

Wow an AH suspened sentence thread where people are making reasonable points.

You startin?

OutlawPete

easyeason3 wrote: »

Given the nice weather we have been having recently the amount of young girls walking around town wearing shorts up their ass & skimpy tops is a little bit disturbing. Yes they have fantastic bodies but the clothes their parents are allowing them out in is nothing short of disgusting. You see men ranging in age from 16 to 50 openly gawking at them & what's worse is that these girls seem to enjoy the attention even if it is from a man in his 40's/ 50's that has a young family himself if not children their age.

Lots of women "gawking" at young boys too

Overheal

So you have sex with a girl (under unusual circumstances by my reading) and you're given an 18 month sentence, suspended for 5 years.

I know I will be ringing this cowbell for years to come, but how did he manage to get a worse sentence than a bloke that drank, drive, and killed an even younger child?

prinz

rovert wrote: »

Wow an AH suspened sentence thread where people are making reasonable points.

By Jove, you're right. What this thread needs is a dose of 'possible scenarios, what ifs, conspiracy theories, and groundless quasi-allegations. That would be fair more reasonable.

rovert

prinz wrote: »

By Jove, you're right. What this thread needs is a dose of 'possible scenarios, what ifs, conspiracy theories, and groundless quasi-allegations. That would be fair more reasonable.

And for people to think that Im actually saying possible scenarios, what ifs, conspiracy theories, and groundless quasi-allegations are what actually happened despite labelling them as possible scenarios, what ifs, conspiracy theories, and groundless quasi-allegations. Ho hum.

K-9

easyeason3 wrote: »

And you keep giving examples of teenage hollywood wannabe starlets that have make up, hair & tan done & also are being interviewed in an adult setting & I'm fairly sure they would have been prepped on what to say so they don't come across as being immature. So while they look older it still doesn't cut the mustard with me.

This happened in a small town where there is a very strong chance Lowther knew her age. Regardless of whether he was 'duped' or not is irrelevant because he effectively broke the law, not with a teenager, but with a child.

Given the nice weather we have been having recently the amount of young girls walking around town wearing shorts up their ass & skimpy tops is a little bit disturbing. Yes they have fantastic bodies but the clothes their parents are allowing them out in is nothing short of disgusting. You see men ranging in age from 16 to 50 openly gawking at them & what's worse is that these girls seem to enjoy the attention even if it is from a man in his 40's/ 50's that has a young family himself if not children their age.

I can understand where you are coming from. At 15/ 16 I was able to get into nightclubs because I made myself look older. I was asked for ID once & I was 19 at that stage. It is very easy to look older but to act it is another thing.

That's a different case, but same girl, to the one in the OP.

Highland Radio » Suspended sentence for man guilty of sex with a 13 year-old

I would have more sympathy in that case, the girl was nearly 14 then. He doesn't come from Ballyshannon either, so he may not have known the girl too well previously.

Bob Z

thebigbiffo wrote: »

whoops, sorry. i'll go fetch my pitchfork...

and in response to the rest of the mob, my opinion is a suspended sentence is the right call here. this guys in his late 20's now with 2 kids to look after. a judge forming the opinion that he's seen the error of his ways or has seem some mitigating factors in the case is fine with me. he didn't kill anyone, has shown remorse and yer one was obviously sluttin around town while her folks drank themselves silly.

people...SHE SLEPT WITH 30 ODD lads, kept there names and f'ucking rated them. she was 13 (only a few years younger than most of these fellas at the time) and she knew exactly what she was doing. comparing this to institutional abuse insults the victims in those cases ffs

Shes was only 13 if she was doing all that then she must have ben disturbed