Irish soldiers and saluting the queen

R.Dub.Fusilier

xflyer wrote: »

Amazed this thread continues in it's warped way. R.Dub.FusilierI'm sorry what the f was he doing in the British army if he didn't like saluting the Queen? I'm totally confused, it's the British army for heaven sake. It goes with the job..

as far as i know he was in the BA for employment , and the reason for mentioning it was that irish men in the british army didnt like having to salute the british queen even though they took her shilling.

dlofnep

getz wrote: »

how quickly you have forgotten the history of ireland and the UK,just how far back do you want to go ?,should the goverment of republic apologize for the money it paid to the IRA to continue is bombing of civilians,you must move on,and not be a dinosaur

I'm not going back anywhere in history. Derek Wilford presently holds an OBE. The Saville Inquiry very recently brought his career into disrepute.

As for our Government - I don't think anyone stood over the deaths of innocent people. The British Government did for 38 years. Therein lies the problem.

I'd appreciate it if you didn't try to dictate to me what to do. I'm perfectly entitled to hold my view without being accused of being a dinosaur.

cyrusdvirus

dlofnep wrote: »

I'm not going back anywhere in history. Derek Wilford presently holds an OBE. The Saville Inquiry very recently brought his career into disrepute.

As for our Government - I don't think anyone stood over the deaths of innocent people. The British Government did for 38 years. Therein lies the problem.

I'd appreciate it if you didn't try to dictate to me what to do. I'm perfectly entitled to hold my view without being accused of being a dinosaur.

Just as a matter of interest dlofnep, where DO you stand on the Queen being saluted by the PDF?

As myself and some other posters have stated, she is the Head of State of a sovereign nation, and as such is entitled to be saluted/receive full military honours.

Even in time of war senior opposing officers are saluted, why not pay respect to the Queen in time of peace?

Morpheus

exactly, just watch any discovery channel military documentary showing General Charles Huntziger signing the armistice with germany in world war 2 and you will see him recieve and give salutes from/to the german high command... including Hitler!!!

getz

dlofnep wrote: »

I'm not going back anywhere in history. Derek Wilford presently holds an OBE. The Saville Inquiry very recently brought his career into disrepute.

As for our Government - I don't think anyone stood over the deaths of innocent people. The British Government did for 38 years. Therein lies the problem.

I'd appreciate it if you didn't try to dictate to me what to do. I'm perfectly entitled to hold my view without being accused of being a dinosaur.

i take it you hold the same view about any head of state that visits ireland that the police and army has shot its own citizens ?france/spain/italy/USA/russia/china/pakistan/south africa[new]/argentina,ect you can see what i meen,or in your case is it just excuse for a ant-brit rant ? it certainly comes over that way.

dlofnep

getz wrote: »

i take it you hold the same view about any head of state that visits ireland that the police and army has shot its own citizens ?

I'm afraid those killed were all Irish. I'd appreciate it if you didn't get pedantic. If you wish to put forth the view that all Irish nationalists in the city of Derry are not Irish, then you might wish to tell them. Derry has always been a nationalist city - Even in the 1918 elections prior to partition, it had a nationalist majority. Today, it still maintains a nationalist majority. In 1972, it had a nationalist majority. So I'm afraid that you're attempt to debate around the issue of nationality is a non-issue, and is hardly pertinent to an Irish Republican who does not make the distinction between Irishmen or women - regardless of where on this Island that they reside.

There are other threads to discuss such a matter. This isn't one of them.

gatecrash wrote: »

Just as a matter of interest dlofnep, where DO you stand on the Queen being saluted by the PDF?

As myself and some other posters have stated, she is the Head of State of a sovereign nation, and as such is entitled to be saluted/receive full military honours.

Even in time of war senior opposing officers are saluted, why not pay respect to the Queen in time of peace?

They can salute whomever the wish to salute. I don't feel that they should be forced to do so, nor do I feel that anyone should be forced to welcome her. It's a free country. If the Government wishes to invite her, and the soldiers wish to salute her - that's their business and not mine. If a soldier refuses to salute her, then I feel that he should have the right to do so without being chastised. I somehow doubt that Irish soldiers would refuse to salute her - so ultimately, it's really a non-discussion. However, it would be interesting to see how it plays out.

cyrusdvirus

dlofnep wrote: »

They can salute whomever the wish to salute. I don't feel that they should be forced to do so, nor do I feel that anyone should be forced to welcome her. It's a free country. If the Government wishes to invite her, and the soldiers wish to salute her - that's their business and not mine. If a soldier refuses to salute her, then I feel that he should have the right to do so without being chastised. I somehow doubt that Irish soldiers would refuse to salute her - so ultimately, it's really a non-discussion. However, it would be interesting to see how it plays out.

non Discussion?? the threads lasted 11 bloody pages!!!

A soldier cannot refuse a legal order, it's that simple

BlaasForRafa

dlofnep wrote: »

They can salute whomever the wish to salute. I don't feel that they should be forced to do so, nor do I feel that anyone should be forced to welcome her. It's a free country. If the Government wishes to invite her, and the soldiers wish to salute her - that's their business and not mine. If a soldier refuses to salute her, then I feel that he should have the right to do so without being chastised. I somehow doubt that Irish soldiers would refuse to salute her - so ultimately, it's really a non-discussion. However, it would be interesting to see how it plays out.

It isn't a matter of whether they wish to salute her or not. As a head of state the army are duty bound to salute her as a respect and diplomatic courtesy, there is no "wish to" involved. If a soldier dosen't "wish to" salute someone that they are duty bound to salute then they should resign their commission.

Fratton Fred

dlofnep wrote: »

If a soldier refuses to salute her, then I feel that he should have the right to do so without being chastised. I somehow doubt that Irish soldiers would refuse to salute her - so ultimately, it's really a non-discussion. However, it would be interesting to see how it plays out.

I believe the saying goes something like "The Army is there to preserve democracy, not practice it".

Reg'stoy

While reading online about that horrible crash in Donegal, I happened upon the following article.

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/should-irish-prime-minister-cowen-bow-before-the-queen-14873588.html

I thought it might be of interest considering my original question. Seemingly royal protocol requires males who met her should bow the head and women should curtsey.

I still think if an individual soldier has a moral objection he should be allowing to raise it but I accept that as a part of the military he will have to do things he doesn't like. But I do draw the line at Brian Cowen or his good wife bowing and curtseying for her. This is not a 'repubican' view as I would equally object to them doing it for any monarch but in saying that there is no way of ignoring the big elephant in the room which will be her visit and all the history surrounding it.

moonboy52

He should do what ever is required from him.

If protocol dictates that he bows before another head of state / monarch then he must observe protocol in this case.

Scots Iwish

The Windsors aka Saxe Coburg Gota Wotha Hun Van Roth Money Money Money.

Are the world champion crime syndicate family. Respect

Fergie is a embarrassment, a amateur at the family business.
Only wants £500,000 she will give the family a bad name. That's just Chickenfeed to the usual family rate for acts of exploitations, evils, corruptions etc. etc.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ba7OB0oyaOQ

BlaasForRafa

Scots Iwish wrote: »

The Windsors aka Saxe Coburg Gota Wotha Hun Van Roth Money Money Money.

Are the world champion crime syndicate family. Respect

Fergie is a embarrassment, a amateur at the family business.
Only wants £500,000 she will give the family a bad name. That's just Chickenfeed to the usual family rate for acts of exploitations, evils, corruptions etc. etc.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ba7OB0oyaOQ

Did you put your post into a blender or something and this is what came out?

Scots Iwish

BlaasForRafa wrote: »

Did you put your post into a blender or something and this is what came out?

Yes Bla.
dO YOU WRITE cOMEDY PRofessionally. Or are yo a MercHant banker, U r aren't u. Tell us right now, you are polishing off a photty of the Queen.

She has a nice ass, he is called Charles.

Honor Guard, Honor Guard Attention

cyrusdvirus

BlaasForRafa wrote: »

Did you put your post into a blender or something and this is what came out?

hehe hehe hehe

getz

Morphéus wrote: »

exactly, just watch any discovery channel military documentary showing General Charles Huntziger signing the armistice with germany in world war 2 and you will see him recieve and give salutes from/to the german high command... including Hitler!!!

even the during the signing of surrender, the japanese and allies saluted each other,if the japenese even after a atom bomb was used against their cities,could salute why cannot some irish follow protocol and respect,trying to refuse because [we dont believe in it because we are a republic] isent a excuse,many countries are republics,there are even 16 countries within the commonwealth who are republics and they do not have a problem, all that will happen if respect is not shown to visiting heads of countries,is that for ireland on the world stage it will be embarrassing

Scots Iwish

gatecrash wrote: »

hehe hehe hehe

Glad you find the neglect of your supposed brave boyos so funny.

You two will get a great laugh out of this reality of the remembrance day(s) 364 of the year.

The neglect of ex-servicemen was branded a 'disgrace' yesterday as it was revealed that 20,000 are in prison or on probation in England and Wales.
The shocking figures compiled by probation staff show that one in ten prisoners used to be in the armed forces - up by almost a third in five years.
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1216015/More-British-soldiers-prison-serving-Afghanistan-shock-study-finds.html#ixzz0tfQFkavW

Does not take account of the old boys of ww2 living in near poverty, no one gives a toss about.

Let's all follow gitz example, salute the crime syndicate billionaire Windsors. All wars so far have been a win win for them
hehe hehe hehe
hehe hehe hehe
Gatecrash

60 % of B army alcoholics

When you are old enough to join
you can change that to
hic hic hic just before you puke

cyrusdvirus

Your source is the Daily Mail, not exactly regarded as a paragon of journalistic integrity.

Your sentiments may well hold water, and in light of our own national day of remembrance the other day, a ceremony that was not exactly "advertised" (wrong word i admit, but i've had a crappy day and the brain is turning to mush) are somewhat timely.

The only thing is your post looks like it is the product of a drunk 14 year old.

You may have a problem with the Queen. If you are a UK&NI citizen then you have more of an ability and right to do anything about it than us Irish people do.

HOWEVER, SHE IS STILL THE HEAD OF STATE AND UNTIL THAT IS NO LONGER THE CASE THEN DIPLOMATIC PROTOCOL DICTATES THAT SHE IS GIVEN FULL MILITARY HONOURS WHILE HERE ON A STATE VISIT.

End of Story

Morpheus

Scots Iwish ...

For sanity's sake can you please post in the Queens english?

Your posts are causing my eyes to cross and im having a brain-fart trying to make sense of your literary nonsense.

I believe you are trying to get SOME point across but unless you type it out in a sane meaningful (not full of shyte) manner myself and many of my comrades here will shortly become bored with your wit (or lack there of) and I personally will stop reading your posts for the same reasons that I dont read The National Enquirer!!!

Scots Iwish

Morphéus wrote: »

Scots Iwish ...
im having a brain-fart trying.
and I personally will stop reading your posts for the same reasons that I dont read The National Enquirer!!!

Your fart brain is not my concern.
Please for the sake of the definition of vanity , let's have a little Lesspheus.

JonnyTwoCombs

Ok, ok I’ve read this eye stringing, brain draining thread from the start!

When I went to school Northern Ireland was part Great Britain, therefore making the citizens of that area BRITISH! It’s even helpfully printed on the cover of their passports (a document used to denote citizenship)

An ideology does not amount to citizenship of a state. So been a nationalist doesn’t mean your Irish. (Wasn’t some English guy, around the time of Parnell, ENGLISH but also an IRISH NATIONALIST?)

So what if some Colonel was awarded an honour based around the medieval concept of an honours system. In this day and age, that only means he uses a little more ink to sign his name. It's not like he was awarded land or anything.

With regard to the actual question posed in this thread, I believe the DF will do what they have always done, and that is to parade, with bass shined, boots bulled to a mirror shine and represent the country.

Manic Moran

OK, Scots. I'm starting to get fed up with your immature, provocative posting manner, and you're heading for a ban if you keep this up.

If you've got a point to make, do it properly. Being anti-British isn't a crime here. Acting the git is

NTM