Civil Partnership bill, can you explain something to me?

sasser · 07-07-2010 4:04pm #1

It's being debated at the moment, I keep hearing that it will undermine /threaten marriage. Can someone explain how, really, I just don't undertstand this argument?

Viper_JB · 07-07-2010 4:06pm

My understanding of this is that they're saying that if you can have all the rights that married couples are afforded or even some of the rights then there's allot less encouragment to get married.

sasser · 07-07-2010 4:07pm

But gay/lesbian people can't get married?

southsiderosie · 07-07-2010 4:09pm

Viper_JB wrote: »

My understanding of this is that they're saying that if you can have all the rights that married couples are afforded or even some of the rights then there's allot less encouragment to get married.

The current welfare system does far more to dis-incentivize marriage than "expanding the franchise" ever could.

Viper_JB · 07-07-2010 4:11pm

It covers everyone in a relationship - well cohabitating couple reguardless on sexual preference.

sasser · 07-07-2010 4:12pm

The current welfare system does far more to dis-incentivize marriage than "expanding the franchise" ever could.

Did you know that when being means tested for dole/job seekers allowance, they take what your partner is earning into consideration. However, you don't get any extra tax credits for being a couple, double standard there.

Gone Drinking · 07-07-2010 4:14pm

Its like hayfever, for gays. I call it.. gayfever

Robbo · 07-07-2010 4:17pm

By opening up the number of potential unions, existing marriages are now devalued, like when taxis were deregulated. This means their value decreases and many will be left in negative equity on existing marriages and will never be able to sell on their wives. Many will be left stuck with a "starter wife" which will be of a completely unsuitable size in years to come.

I call for a NAMA for the recently married.

fontanalis · 07-07-2010 4:21pm

sasser wrote: »

It's being debated at the moment, I keep hearing that it will undermine /threaten marriage. Can someone explain how, really, I just don't undertstand this argument?

It will utterly destroy it. Those priests and bishops marriages will be the same as some infidels living in sin.

enniscorthy · 07-07-2010 4:25pm

if gays dont like the law of the land nobodys forcing them to stay

us irish on the other hand are a charitable and understanding race

how many gays are in the country surely we can clear off some rocky island somewhere out west and put them all on that and they can have their own little country

do what they like then

j1974 · 07-07-2010 4:25pm

sasser wrote: »

It's being debated at the moment, I keep hearing that it will undermine /threaten marriage. Can someone explain how, really, I just don't undertstand this argument?

basically it means that if gay people are given similar rights to straight married couples, then it takes away from the conventional idea of the mammy/daddy 2.4 children scenario. Basically you should only have tax breaks etc if your straight. What do you expect in a roman catholic country. the church tell you, what you can do, who you can marry, whether you can wear a condom etc etc. They keep the juicy decisions for themselves, like should I have one or two children today!!!!!:D

dRNk SAnTA · 07-07-2010 4:27pm

As Stephen Colbert said:

Marriage is a basic building block of society. If gay men get married then that threatens my marriage immediately, because I only got married as a taunt toward gay men, because they couldn't. I don't know why else I got married other than to rub it in gay peoples faces.

And

If gay marriage is legalised, what's to stop some guy breaking into my house and gay-marrying me in my sleep.

fontanalis · 07-07-2010 4:29pm

enniscorthy wrote: »

if gays dont like the law of the land nobodys forcing them to stay

us irish on the other hand are a charitable and understanding race

how many gays are in the country surely we can clear off some rocky island somewhere out west and put them all on that and they can have their own little country

do what they like then

Sweet jebus!

Caoimhín · 07-07-2010 4:32pm

I think the real reason that this is causing a stir is not so much the legal contract that marriage is but the resulting rights the couple will have to adopt and rear children.

sasser · 07-07-2010 4:38pm

I think the real reason that this is causing a stir is not so much the legal contract that marriage is but the resulting rights the couple will have to adopt and rear children.

What do you mean, I thought everyone was giving out that this bill doesn't give rights and protection to children of same sex couples.

Piste · 07-07-2010 4:44pm

Does the civil partnership bill give couples the right to adopt children?

starbelgrade · 07-07-2010 4:47pm

Piste wrote: »

Does the civil partnership bill give couples the right to adopt children?

No.

sasser · 07-07-2010 4:48pm

No couples (be it same sex or opposite sex) can currently adopt in Ireland. The bill does not give that right to either. However, someone can adopt as a single person, sexual orientation is irrelevant. The problem for unmarried gay and straight couples is that the 2nd partner gets no legal rights.

Piste · 07-07-2010 4:49pm

How does it "undermine" marriage then?

(not specifically asking you, just in general).

Personally I think it's an awful Bill in that it's opt-out, not opt-in. I don't want the government deciding I have some sort of obligation to a boyfriend if I live with him for a certain period of time.

Sulmac · 07-07-2010 4:49pm

The Civil Partnership Bill will "undermine" marriage in the same way legalising homosexuality, divorce and pornography "undermined" marriage - in that IT WON'T.

sasser · 07-07-2010 4:50pm

It doesn't undermine marriage, the same argument was rolled out for the divorce referendum. That's my question, how?

fontanalis · 07-07-2010 4:50pm

Sulmac wrote: »

The Civil Partnership Bill will "harm" marriage in the same way legalising homosexuality, divorce and pornography "harmed" marriage - IT WON'T.

Youmean treating people like adults and letting them make their own decisions.
I hope god doesn't get mad, he might strike the country down with a famine . . . . again

starbelgrade · 07-07-2010 4:51pm

sasser wrote: »

It's being debated at the moment, I keep hearing that it will undermine /threaten marriage. Can someone explain how, really, I just don't undertstand this argument?

It's a nonsensical argument put forward by the type of backward, idiotic, conservative f*ckwit politicians that represent the voice of a percentage of the electorate that still live in the dark ages.

Caoimhín · 07-07-2010 4:55pm

sasser wrote: »

What do you mean, I thought everyone was giving out that this bill doesn't give rights and protection to children of same sex couples.

I havent read the bill, nor am I likely to, but looking at the Frontline on Monday the issue with the gheys raising kids seemed to be the problem the crazy god people had.

For the record, i think anyone who wants to get married is daft.

GLaDOS · 07-07-2010 4:56pm

People who don't like homosexuality use it as an excuse to try and stop it becoming more accepted in society, it's nonsensical and bigoted.

humanji · 07-07-2010 5:00pm

Basically, about 1000 years ago the Irish were oppressed by Viking raiders. The Vikings went off, and in came the British, who oppressed the Irish for 800 years give or take. After that, the British left (most of) us alone and the Catholic Church came along and oppressed us.

Now that the Church's power is waining, people are wising up and getting on on the ground floor this time around. We're going to oppress a minority before someone else oppresses us. It just happened to be homosexuals.

v2 · 07-07-2010 5:08pm

enniscorthy wrote: »

if gays dont like the law of the land nobodys forcing them to stay

us irish on the other hand are a charitable and understanding race

how many gays are in the country surely we can clear off some rocky island somewhere out west and put them all on that and they can have their own little country

do what they like then

Such a place already exists: It's called the Isle of Man.

v2 · 07-07-2010 5:09pm

humanji wrote: »

Basically, about 1000 years ago the Irish were oppressed by Viking raiders. The Vikings went off, and in came the British, who oppressed the Irish for 800 years give or take. After that, the British left (most of) us alone and the Catholic Church came along and oppressed us.

Now that the Church's power is waining, people are wising up and getting on on the ground floor this time around. We're going to oppress a minority before someone else oppresses us. It just happened to be homosexuals.

In other words: the Irish are incapable of self governance.

AnonoBoy · 07-07-2010 5:13pm

Oh people will be marrying potatoes and horses and microwave ovens next I suppose.

I think we should ban marriage altogether for everyone, then we wouldn't have this problem. :mad:

Mike 1972 · 07-07-2010 5:23pm

Sulmac wrote: »

The Civil Partnership Bill will "undermine" marriage in the same way legalising homosexuality, divorce and pornography "undermined" marriage - in that IT WON'T.

Unfortunately ?

kylith · 07-07-2010 5:40pm

Sulmac wrote: »

The Civil Partnership Bill will "undermine" marriage in the same way legalising homosexuality, divorce and pornography "undermined" marriage - in that IT WON'T.

Agreed. The only people who are argueing that it will 'undermine' marriage are bigots who feel that homosexuals are not normal, and don't like the idea of them being able to form a legally binding partnership for some reason, the bigots.

Civil Partnership bill, can you explain something to me?

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