A Foxy Dilemma

doctor evil

Discodog wrote: »

If the hens were properly secured then the fox would of sought food elsewhere.

The fox would check every single night for the smallest sign of weakness in the fencing.

Do you hold rats in the same regard?

Discodog

doctor evil wrote: »

The fox would check every single night for the smallest sign of weakness in the fencing.

Do you hold rats in the same regard?

Of course they do which is why you make the hen house secure. Foxes may be persistent but they do not carry screwdrivers & wirecutters. Part of the problem is with "chicken wire" which is widely used & not always fox proof. If you make the house secure to start with then it doesn't need constant checking.

I hold no dislike of rats. Many of us know a child (or adult !) that has a pet rat. They are intelligent & very clean. The rat that inhabits our streets is the same. If we don't provide their food then there will be no urban foxes or rats. If we do provide food then we can hardly blame them for exploiting it.

flutered

Discodog wrote: »

It's not a case of being pro or anti fox. The original thread was about the threat posed to children by foxes. It has now extended into the OP saying that foxes pose a serious risk to Irish gardens & presumably gardeners.

In many years of living in the countryside, rescuing wildlife & gardening I have never heard this. The only reference posted is from Tasmania. As a gardener I am well aware of Tetanus but I have never heard anyone referring to fox pooh until this thread.

I would have to wonder how any farmer could lose 56 animals to foxes & not act. There is no way that 56 were killed at once. If foxes were killing 56 animal per night we would all be hunting foxes. My local farmer/neighbour has just raised lambs. Both I & he have seen foxes in the same field as the sheep but no animals have been lost. In fact I don't know of anyone in my village who shoot foxes & most have livestock.

I will keep returning to the point that you cannot & will not eradicate foxes so why not live with them.

i am not not in favour of eradicating foxes,
my neighbour employed the help of the local gun club, if my memory serves me right in the first hour they had 40 foxes bagged,
this guy had the sheep in hill country.

Discodog

flutered wrote: »

i am not not in favour of eradicating foxes,
my neighbour employed the help of the local gun club, if my memory serves me right in the first hour they had 40 foxes bagged,
this guy had the sheep in hill country.

Rural foxes have a typical territory size of about 4 sq kilometres. So 40 foxes could have a territory size of 160 sq kilometres which is a pretty big area. To shoot 40 foxes in one hour would be remarkable. A hunt might not get 40 in a year.

Sonnenblumen

Discodog wrote: »

I hold no dislike of rats. Many of us know a child (or adult !) that has a pet rat. They are intelligent & very clean. The rat that inhabits our streets is the same. If we don't provide their food then there will be no urban foxes or rats. If we do provide food then we can hardly blame them for exploiting it.

Oh dear oh dear, why does information not work for everyone?:mad:

Discodog

Well zoologist Richard Collins has just been on Newstalk & he was agreeing with me. I guess that I am selective about the credentials of those that give me information.

Qualitymark

flutered wrote: »

i am not not in favour of eradicating foxes,
my neighbour employed the help of the local gun club, if my memory serves me right in the first hour they had 40 foxes bagged,
this guy had the sheep in hill country.

Unfortunately, the result of this is usually that the rodent population explodes, and then neighbouring foxes move in. They don't, however, have the local knowledge of the dead foxes, and so they're much more likely to attack farm animals. Self-defeating.

jacknife

flutered wrote: »

i.m.o. this thread seems to suggest that anyone that is anti fox is wrong, and whoever likes them is right, ah well if it would be so simple, a neighbour lost 16 sheep and 40 lambs to foxes some time ago, the ewes were attacked while lambing, lambs savaged while asleep.

Scientific studies in Britain found that between 0.5 % and 3 % of otherwise viable lambs may be taken by foxes, described as a small amount when compared to the mortality caused by exposure, starvation and disease.

Does a fox have the strength to kill an adult sheep?

flutered

jacknife wrote: »

Scientific studies in Britain found that between 0.5 % and 3 % of otherwise viable lambs may be taken by foxes, described as a small amount when compared to the mortality caused by exposure, starvation and disease.

Does a fox have the strength to kill an adult sheep?

when in the throes of lambing a ewe is powerless.

flutered

mods please close this thread as it has lost direction

johngalway

flutered wrote: »

i am not not in favour of eradicating foxes,
my neighbour employed the help of the local gun club, if my memory serves me right in the first hour they had 40 foxes bagged,
this guy had the sheep in hill country.

Straight up, you're being told lies.

Discodog wrote: »

Rural foxes have a typical territory size of about 4 sq kilometres.

I wouldn't take that as Gospel. I have followed foxes for miles at a time.

Qualitymark wrote: »

Unfortunately, the result of this is usually that the rodent population explodes, and then neighbouring foxes move in. They don't, however, have the local knowledge of the dead foxes, and so they're much more likely to attack farm animals. Self-defeating.

New foxes to an area quickly take up the routes and feeding area of the previous population. Year on year I see foxes use the same routes across hill and farmland.

jacknife wrote: »

Scientific studies in Britain found that between 0.5 % and 3 % of otherwise viable lambs may be taken by foxes, described as a small amount when compared to the mortality caused by exposure, starvation and disease.

Does a fox have the strength to kill an adult sheep?

Studies based on what types of farms in what kind of areas, are ewes housed, into what situation are ewes and lambs at foot let out, what alternative food sources are available to the fox, is the ground otherwise food rich or poor. "Viable lamb" is a very ropey term.

No an adult sheep will not normally be killed by a fox. An ill or incapacitated sheep may be a different story. The heaviest fox I've heard of shot was 36 pounds weight, that's a very big fox. Most will be in or around 10-16 pounds weight.

Nonmonotonic

Seems a lot of people are exercised by this question.

http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/tv/news/a236863/bbcs-fox-attack-doc-pulls-in-4m.html


I have a problem with the concept of 'problem' predators. Surely that is what they do, prey on other creatures. The 'problem' I see is that urban foxes have lost their natural fear of humans and in fact view us literally as meal tickets regarding the food we discard. Foxes are beautiful creatures but not pets and the sight of a lady feeding an urban fox in the above program shows that we are causing the problem.

The answer to the question posted really depends on the position you hold. If you regard them as vermin and a danger, kill them. If you take a more benign view, the suggestions regarding water sprays and electric fences are more appropriate. Either way urbanization of foxes should be discouraged.

Discodog

But we will not be able to stop people feeding foxes. Neither will we be able to prevent foxes coming into urban areas. Even after the fox "attack" over 65% of Londoners said that they like the foxes & would oppose destroying them. Politicians are quick to jump on a bandwagon but it would appear that Boris is having second thoughts, since the poll, about his initial comments that the foxes need controlling. The British public would never let a fox cull happen. The most effective answer could be some form of birth control - the people that make Cillit Bang have just bought the company that make Durex - can't wait to see the ads !

Sonnenblumen

We can try and educate people and point out the consequences of irresponsible practices, like encouraging foxes with feeding but I think Irish people have a poor record when it comes to changing behaviour.

Relying on the general public to change and hoping this may influence the increasing presence of foxes in urban areas is simply aspirational. The onus is on the Authoriities to curb this emerging menace.

Individual control measures should also not be ruled out.

There should be no sanctuary for foxes as these wild animals do not belong in urban areas/domestic gardens.

Discodog

Sonnenblumen wrote: »

There should be no sanctuary for foxes as these wild animals do not belong in urban areas/domestic gardens.

If that is what you believe then why instigate this thread & ask for advice ?.

Do you apply the same rules to hedgehogs, birds etc ?.

Sonnenblumen

Discodog wrote: »

If that is what you believe then why instigate this thread & ask for advice ?.

Do you apply the same rules to hedgehogs, birds etc ?.

My views on foxes have changed based on my original experience but more I suppose from investigating the incidence of foxes in urban areas. My motivation in posting the thread was to discover how other people dealt with the problem. In hindsight it is much easier now to discriminate.

In relation to birds (with the exception of magpies) and hedgehogs, I would encourage these benign creatures wherever possible. I am not aware of any problems caused by songbirds or hedgehogs, on the contrary I believe such creatures to make very important and positive contributions without any negative effects to the enjoyment of the garden environment.

flutered

what seems to be overlooked only so much wild life can live in any one area, that is the amount that can be supported, regardless of how many birds are hatched during the season, at the end of the year there will be only the amount that was there at the start of the year, the same applys to all of the animal kingdom.

Sonnenblumen

flutered wrote: »

what seems to be overlooked only so much wild life can live in any one area, that is the amount that can be supported, regardless of how many birds are hatched during the season, at the end of the year there will be only the amount that was there at the start of the year, the same applys to all of the animal kingdom.

That would be reasonable if one was only looking at the factors of how many can be sustained by Natural Order. However many animals perish from unnatural causes, human error, accidents etc etc eg indiscriminate mirrors in gardens, cars, pollution, loss of habitat, excessive monoculture agriculture... then there are also unusual weather patterns causing prolonged wet, dry, or cold conditions, etc etc

lrushe

I had 2 pet foxes as a child, my dad found them dug out of an earth at 3 days old. I had them for maybe 4 or 5 years, they lay on the couch with me while I watched cartoons, slept on the end of my bed when I was sick etc. Surely if they were so disease ridden I wouldn't have even made it to adulthood???
Personally I don't know why you can't live next door to them but if you do decide to 'get rid' of them please do it humanely, no posions or traps

flutered

i managed to get a fox to mate with a terrier bitch one time, the litter were the same as the bitch, except for the tails, which were heavily wire coated, more anon.