Holland -v- Spain - World Cup Final

Paul Tergat

pickarooney wrote: »

Spain made me a Holland fan tonight.
I don't know how anyone with any integrity can favour the sort of person who willfully throws himself over at every opportunity over one who gets stuck in in full view of the officials.

Very selective viewing and nice choice of words.

The dutch dive/cheat just as much and 'stuck in' is not correct, they were out and dirty and cynical.

niallo27

pickarooney wrote: »

Spain made me a Holland fan tonight.
I don't know how anyone with any integrity can favour the sort of person who willfully throws himself over at every opportunity over one who gets stuck in in full view of the officials.

I kinda agree with ya, could not belive the panel on rte, does anyone not remember a certain Roy keane doing the same to holland a few years ago

titan18

Spain and Holland made me a German fan tonight.Most entertaining team in the tournament imo.

pickarooney

p_larkin99 wrote: »

Very selective viewing and nice choice of words.

The dutch dive/cheat just as much and 'stuck in' is not correct, they were out and dirty and cynical.

potatoes/tomatoes - there's little as cynical as diving and waving a pretend card IMO. You'd give a four-year old a box for that kind of carry-on.

leninbenjamin

Both teams were very cynical tonight. While Holland took a more physical approach to fouling, Spain were still quite cynical off the ball. Lots of jersey pulling, little trips, blocking runs off the ball, dives etc. Hollands game plan was to rough Spain up so they lost their composure, Spain's was to slow the game down totally when Holland had the ball so they couldn't build up any momentum. While De Jong's Tony Jaa impression took things to a different level, Spain are no angels. In many respects this World Cup was a victory for cynical football tbh.

Paul Tergat

pickarooney wrote: »

potatoes/tomatoes - there's little as cynical as diving and waving a pretend card IMO. You'd give a four-year old a box for that kind of carry-on.

I 100% agree. Im saying it was a 2 sided thing is all. People saying theyre not fans of Spain and would cheer for the Dutch need to look a little closer.

pickarooney

p_larkin99 wrote: »

I 100% agree. Im saying it was a 2 sided thing is all. People saying theyre not fans of Spain and would cheer for the Dutch need to look a little closer.

It could well have been the case. I joined the match late and didn't see if Dhr. Robben was up to his usual chicanery, so my anger may be a little biased as I only saw 4 clear dives, all from Spanish players.

Het-Field

Xavi6 wrote: »

I got paid out for Diego



Four chances each overall? Bollox

Spain: Ramos header x2, Fabregas one on one, Villa side net, Navas deflected effort wide, Inisesta denied by Gio Van B's tackle.

Holland: Heitinga header, Mathijsen header, Robben shots saved x2, Sneijder free kick saved.

There were 11 shots on target (31 overall) - Spain 6, Holland 5 (18 v 13 overall)

There were 15 corners - Spain 8, Holland 6

And possession was 44% to 56% in favour of Spain.

It was end to end.

Interesting stats.

It doenst negate the fact that most of those chances came in Extra Time. Thus, I am willing to conceed that perhaps the ET was end to end, but you cannot ignore the fact that the regulation time was not.

When speaking of the "Three Chances Each" in normal time I was talking
about Ramos's header. The game was not end to end, especially in the 90 mins. A 12% advantage in possession stakes is a large advantage for a World Cup final. If it was 4% or 2% then i would agree with you on that point, but 12% is a significant advantage, which would indicate domination.

I would also note that of the 5 Netherlands shots on Target, at least three (Kuyt, Van Persie, and Schneider) were harmless shots, which never troubled Cassillas.

Paul Tergat

pickarooney wrote: »

It could well have been the case. I joined the match late and didn't see if Dhr. Robben was up to his usual chicanery, so my anger may be a little biased as I only saw 4 clear dives, all from Spanish players.

No doubt about it both teams were up to foul play. Its sadly just the way football is these days, diving is an 'accepted' part of the game

cson

pickarooney wrote: »

Spain made me a Holland fan tonight.
I don't know how anyone with any integrity can favour the sort of person who willfully throws himself over at every opportunity over one who gets stuck in in full view of the officials.

Come off it; getting stuck in and the thuggery Holland were engaging in are two entirely different things. It's quite unbelieveable that Messrs Van Bommel and De Jong didn't do anyone a serious injury let alone didn't get sent off during the World Cup.

pickarooney

It was hardly Uruguay 80s vintage in fairness.

Mr Alan

de jongs kick to Alonso's chest was as bad as anything you'll see. shocking shocking shocking.

CorkMan

anyone know where I can download the match in high definition? (Preferably a web connection, bit torrent would be cool though)

thegen

Delighted the Spanish won, the Dutch tactics to kick their way to victory was terrible. They can play if they want to!!!!!

cson

Mr Alan wrote: »

de jongs kick to Alonso's chest was as bad as anything you'll see. shocking shocking shocking.

Agree with that.

There's getting stuck in and then there's kung fu kicks to the chest.

Chuck Norris would have been proud of that effort.

pickarooney

Mr Alan wrote: »

de jongs kick to Alonso's chest was as bad as anything you'll see. shocking shocking shocking.

Yeah, I've just seen a replay of that now actually. What the fuсk was he up to? Did it get a yellow (on what grounds?) or was it missed completely?

SlickRic

thank goodness Spain won.

i didn't care much before the game who won, but during the night, it became clear that Spain had to win that game.

the RTE lads maybe went slightly over the top with it being a 'sad day for football', but Dunphy said one thing that was very accurate...if Holland had won, it would have justified how they went about their business.

they set out to intimidate, not play any sort of constructive football.

de Jong's tackle in particular was embarrassing.

also, stick for Howard Webb is ludicrous. he tried to set his stall out getting them to stop kicking and diving in, but they didn't listen, and then he was left in a quandary; he doesn't want to leave a team with 10 men unless he absolutely had to. it's unfortunate that Holland took advantage of that fact and destroyed most of the final.

well done Spain.

Mr.Nice Guy

Howard Webb did well I thought. While I do think De Jong should have walked I think Webb did his best to try not to ruin the spectacle. It was probably the worst match a referee can deal with as players were constantly lashing out and then surrounding the ref. He was in a no-win situation overall and while I'm sure some will single him out for criticism, all things considered I think he can hold his head high.

Another ref could have quite justifiably sent off Van Bommel, De Jong, Robben, as well as Heitinga, who was the only guy to go.

davyjose

Mr Alan wrote: »

de jongs kick to Alonso's chest was as bad as anything you'll see. shocking shocking shocking.

And yet, in the biggest game every half a decade, it's allowed.....

Our sport is thusly in sh!te.

SlickRic

Raskolnikov wrote: »

Worst final ever.

West Germany v Argentina 1990 tbh.

Dublin_Gunner

SlickRic wrote: »

thank goodness Spain won.

i didn't care much before the game who won, but during the night, it became clear that Spain had to win that game.

the RTE lads maybe went slightly over the top with it being a 'sad day for football', but Dunphy said one thing that was very accurate...if Holland had won, it wouldn't have justified how they went about their business.

they set out to intimidate, not play any sort of constructive football.

de Jong's tackle in particular was embarrassing.

FYP

In fairness, Webb made a balls of it. He should have set the story straight early on by giving yellows for the few terrible tackles earlier, rather than giving the players 'a talking to' - which means fook all in a match.

Book them early - it won't happen again. But he didn't, and soon, the players (particularly the Dutch) had him in their pocket.

Its a disgrace to think Heitinga (who didn't do much wrong) got sent off for two fairly soft yellows - when De Jong & Van Bommel both made clear Red Card tackles, and could've caused someone a serious injury.

steelcityblues

Shameful performance by Netherlands in a World Cup final - and I say this as someone who wanted them to go all the way this year. They may have not got hammered like Brazil did back in 1998, but there was no sense of daring (unless we include some of those very bad challenges), or indeed creativity for most of the 120 mins.

Spain, to give them a bit of credit, at least pushed to win the game before penos, even if they are far off being the most convincing champions we have seen.

Didn't expect much from the final beforehand, but still feel let down by the overall standard of tonight's outcome.

Jako8

Didn't know where to put it.

Xavi6

Football hasn't seen that sort of thing since Crooks and Sven.

Leiva

Fook you Paul ... Wait til I get my hands on your tenticles .
Stretch Arm Strong will look like chewing gum compared to you when I'm finished .

Leiva

Police have opened a murder inquiry , they believe the dog on the right belongs to a Mr Paddy Power , who's location the police would like to establish ....

lugha

SlickRic wrote: »

also, stick for Howard Webb is ludicrous. he tried to set his stall out getting them to stop kicking and diving in, but they didn't listen, and then he was left in a quandary; he doesn't want to leave a team with 10 men unless he absolutely had to. it's unfortunate that Holland took advantage of that fact and destroyed most of the final.

Agreed. If Webb had, deservedly, sent off some of the Dutch players early on they might well have "parked the bus" and we could have had an even drabber game than we did. And of course Webb would then be criticized by some for vanity and seeking to put himself at the center of the story :rolleyes:.
He was right to try and keep 11 players v 11 for the game that was in it. And yes the rules that govern the world cup final are the same for as for a third round FA cup tie, (where such carry on would see at least two players sent off) in the same way as the "rules" for fouls inside and outside the penalty box are the same, i.e. they are not .

pickarooney

mixednuts wrote: »

Police have opened a murder inquiry , they believe the dog on the right belongs to a Mr Paddy Power , who's location the police would like to establish ....

I was sure you were talking about the Casillas video until I looked down!

Am I the only one who thought this game could have been much better if he'd sent off two or three players from each side?

redout

Si, Si, Si, La Copa Ya esta Aquí

Last night was a dream - I danced, I cheered and even shed a tear at the end.

Absolutely magic.

San Andrés - your name will forever be etched in history.

Hey eZe - looky here brother

redout wrote: »

Lets hope so man - Iniesta will do us proud.

Campeones del Mundo
Campeones de Europa
Viva España

eZe^

He did us proud redout. VAMOS! The Iniesta jersey is now my most prized possession.

Redout, any chance you have a pick of the little magician after he scored the goal. I loved the dedication to Dani Jarque on his tshirt.

redout

eZe^ wrote: »

He did us proud redout. VAMOS! The Iniesta jersey is now my most prized possession.

Redout, any chance you have a pick of the little magician after he scored the goal. I loved the dedication to Dani Jarque on his tshirt.

EDIT: Better one here from El Mundo

fryup

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

what does it say?? who is it dedicated to??

eZe^

You're some man for getting your hands on top quality pictures Redout.

Iago

fryup wrote: »

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

what does it say?? who is it dedicated to??

Dani Jarque http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daniel_Jarque

Spanish footballer who died of a heart attack last year at 26.

I believe the translation is "Dani Jarque, always with us"

eZe^

fryup wrote: »

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

what does it say?? who is it dedicated to??

It's dedicated to Daniel Jarque, a Spanish CB who played for Espanyol. He got a heart attack in his hotel room during pre season training with the club. Apparently he was on the phone to his gf (she was pregnant with his child at the time).

It basically says always with us, or always remembered.

As I said, back in 2008 they won the EC for Puerta, and last night they did it for Jarque.

Vyse

redout wrote: »

Si, Si, Si, La Copa Ya esta Aquí

Last night was a dream - I danced, I cheered and even shed a tear at the end.

Absolutely magic.

San Andrés - your name will forever be etched in history.

Hey eZe - looky here brother



Campeones del Mundo
Campeones de Europa
Viva España

Really need to get an internet connection for my folks so that my dad can read El Pais online. He only ever gets to read it when one of us brings a few copies home from a trip to Spain (which isn't very often).

Wearing my Spanish jersey with pride in work today. Hopefully this isn't the pinnacle of Spanish football. Onwards and upwards.

fryup

alot of people are blaming Howard Webb for a poor final,

but surely its the dutch fault for the fiasco, it they go into that game with a cynical mindset there's only so much that the ref can do......and i'm sure he was under pressure not to spoil the game with an early red card

Thrill

Ouch...

http://s3.amazonaws.com/0SAJ7JN5VFAWT249NNR2.anigifdel/c0737c02eff66a58a7dc71a2518d05cd

Xavi6

Dolph Starbeam

:eek:

Ush1

Xavi6 wrote: »

Nice, but it's Alonso, not Xavi.

Dolph Starbeam

Prufrock

MOG7 wrote: »

:eek:

Sweet chin music baby.

homerjay2005

fryup wrote: »

alot of people are blaming Howard Webb for a poor final,

i thought webb had an excellent game. most of the peoples views would be driven by the fact that rte panel lashed him and also the bbc gave him a hard time.

what could he do? send off everybody? all the cards were justified, he had to give them. he tried to let the game flow. the dutch were intent on agressive play, i dont think they can have any complaints. Heitinga deserved to go, earlier in fact. another ref would have sent off de jong, though i think it was accidental. he got both penalty calls right and the goal was not offside nor was it a foul. i did Webb did a great job.

a case of damned if you do, damned if you dont.

in another note, the 2 players that came on late for Holland both on the left wing, were surelty the 2 worse players ever to play in a world cup final. when i saw both of them on, i knew spain were going to get on top. the goal came down the left hand side.

Elia gave away the ball by falling over when he had a chance to get into the box and then Braafheid was no where to be see when Iniesta was put through. those 2 subs cost Holland the game, especially Braafheid,playing his first game of the tournament.

TheTosh

MOG7 wrote: »

:eek:

Dive:D

noodler

homerjay2005 wrote: »

i thought webb had an excellent game. most of the peoples views would be driven by the fact that rte panel lashed him and also the bbc gave him a hard time.

Too lenient.

Shanotheslayer

noodler wrote: »

Too lenient.

Agree to an extent,

De Jong should of been sent off
Van Bommel should of been sent off
Robben should of been sent off


Iniesta should of been sent off
Puyol should of been sent off


This is coming from a big spain supporter btw

SuperInfinity

homerjay2005 wrote: »

i thought webb had an excellent game. most of the peoples views would be driven by the fact that rte panel lashed him and also the bbc gave him a hard time.

what could he do? send off everybody? all the cards were justified, he had to give them. he tried to let the game flow. the dutch were intent on agressive play, i dont think they can have any complaints. Heitinga deserved to go, earlier in fact. another ref would have sent off de jong, though i think it was accidental. he got both penalty calls right and the goal was not offside nor was it a foul. i did Webb did a great job.

a case of damned if you do, damned if you dont.

I totally agree. At one stage there I think Ray Houghton was actually giving out about not giving Robben another yellow card and sending him off for kicking the ball away!!!!! You could see why Robben did it, he wanted so much to put away the goal. It's not like he kicked it off the pitch 10 seconds after the whistle was gone.... nobody was trying to waste time. He was so concentrated and intent on scoring, the whistle went... a second later he finished anyway. And Houghton wanted him sent off for that. Jesus.

In another game they'd be like: "could he not show a bit of common sense, have a talk with the players." Giles called the referee a "clown", said the refereeing was "disasterous".

And it's the easiest possible thing they can do as an excuse for "analyzing" a game. Instead of trying to pick out things about the non-football the Spanish were playing, just get together a few clips of supposed bad decisions, get the worst possible angles of them, make a few "ughh" and "ouch" sounds, have a laugh and attempt to make the referee out to be a joke over it. Then just go on about how bad FIFA are, despite the fact that Webb is a great referee.

Robben did deserve a penalty, however it would have been impossible for the referee to tell from that angle. Since Robben didn't go down, then the referee couldn't really give it.

homerjay2005 wrote: »

in another note, the 2 players that came on late for Holland both on the left wing, were surelty the 2 worse players ever to play in a world cup final. when i saw both of them on, i knew spain were going to get on top. the goal came down the left hand side.

errr.... I don't know... I thought Elia in played well. He kept getting the ball and working with it. I don't think the other guy was too bad either, but I would have kept Van Bronckhurst on. Van Bronckhurst would have cleared that out, he must be kicking himself.

homerjay2005 wrote: »

Elia gave away the ball by falling over when he had a chance to get into the box and then Braafheid was no where to be see when Iniesta was put through. those 2 subs cost Holland the game, especially Braafheid,playing his first game of the tournament.

But Elia did some good things as well, he was good substitute overall.

WIZE

MOG7 wrote: »

:eek:

And thats only a yellow card

Dolph Starbeam

WIZE wrote: »

And thats only a yellow card

Not only that but Iniesta taking off his jersey after scoring a goal in the 117th minute of the World Cup Final to win the game got the same punishment, De Jong's i think was accidental, i don't think he had eyes on Alonso but it was still terrible and deserved a red card.