The Root of All Evil?

branie

was anyone here offended by Richard Dawkins' opinions on Lourdes in this programme?

lmaopml

I didn't see it branie....but I can imagine...lol..

Tbh, nothing Dicky says really bothers me too much, I listen, I may even read some of his books - some of which were amazing, he's a fabulous writer - I take whatever I can out of them, and leave the rest, and do my own thing...

He's just a man like any other...a very intelligent one, but just a guy...

I wonder if I could catch it on youtube..hmmm...

Canis Lupus

They're on YT alright. ( I lolled when he interviewed the hardcore muslim in Jerusalem. He musta been thinking how... the.....f**k... am I getting out of this one.)

uprising2

The Root of all Evil

Click the video above, is that Joe O'Reilly and his lover at the start 0:17-0:22?

lmaopml

I watched it branie, but I got bored cause it was all about his religious views or worldview on religious views and how they should be stamped out...etc. etc.

Meh..

..he's too smart to go being a numpty! I was disappointed when he went this road..but hey ho!

ColmDawson

As far as I can remember, the statistics for so-called 'healings' were more damning than Dawkins' opinions.

panda100

What exactly did he say on Lourdes?

Speaking as an atheist, I've always spoken very highly of Lourdes. Its a lovely place to visit. There is a wonderful atmosphere where you can meet people from all walks of life and all different backgrounds.

The youth village is a great place to stay and you do not have to be religious to be blown away by the candlelight procession and stillness of the grotto at nighttime.

I don't for a second believe anyone has been cured there,but the 'miraculous' aspect of Lourdes is a very insignificant and small part of the experience.

faceman

Ive never heard of Lourdes as a place to go for its physical healing properties. It is a very spiritual place. Every religion has its spiritual places.

I havent heard what dawkins has said but im sure it was more of the same.

5uspect

faceman wrote: »

Ive never heard of Lourdes as a place to go for its physical healing properties. It is a very spiritual place. Every religion has its spiritual places.

I havent heard what dawkins has said but im sure it was more of the same.

It's famous for healing. That's why there are hundreds of crutches hanging around the grotto and plane loads of unfortunate sick people carted there wanting to be cured. That's why thousands of people bring their relatives there; to beg God the Virgin Mary for a cure.

When I was there I found it to be a tacky hole with nothing spiritual about it.
I do however recommend the day trip up to the Pyrenees.

lmaopml

5uspect wrote: »

It's famous for healing. That's why there are hundreds of crutches hanging around the grotto and plane loads of unfortunate sick people carted there wanting to be cured. That's why thousands of people bring their relatives there; to beg God the Virgin Mary for a cure.

When I was there I found it to be a tacky hole with nothing spiritual about it.
I do however recommend the day trip up to the Pyrenees.

I think the Pyreness is a cool place to go and visit too....and people who visit Lourde no doubt bring something away with them too....whether it's a healing of faith, or encouragement to go on...

People who visit Lourdes are only asking for Our Ladies intercession..

..in other words her prayers.

Ask her to pray or write her off as a saint who can not intercede for us.....


Ach sure it's totally up to you....

branie

I wionder if Dawkins ever gave those two Irish pilgrims he spoke to about cures his own opinsions of healings, if they talked off camera

toiletduck

faceman wrote: »

I havent heard what dawkins has said but im sure it was more of the same.

As I recall, he said that the stats showed that you were more likely to get sick there than cured (x amount of visits per year versus y number of claims of cures) or something like that.

PDN

toiletduck wrote: »

As I recall, he said that the stats showed that you were more likely to get sick there than cured (x amount of visits per year versus y number of claims of cures) or something like that.

I'm no fan of Lourdes, but, given that you have a fair likelihood of getting sick wherever you are, that would be a depressing manipulation of statistics to dupe the gullible couch potato.

If the statistics referred to the likelihood of getting sick visiting Lourdes as opposed to not visiting, then that would be more relevant and interesting.

panda100

toiletduck wrote: »

As I recall, he said that the stats showed that you were more likely to get sick there than cured (x amount of visits per year versus y number of claims of cures) or something like that.

Im a big fan of Dawkins but I think he's being a bit nonsensical here.

I went to Lourdes for years with the HCPT and I don't think anyone on that pilgrimage thought they were going to be cured.
What the Lourdes experience does provide is meeting people with similar illnesses to you from all corners of the world, being able to talk openly about your disability,bond with others who are suffering similarly to you.
While It may not cure people physically, it provides people with the realisation that they are not alone in what they are suffering,and this really helps, especially when you have a long term disability such as cerbal palsy.

Zombrex

PDN wrote: »

I'm no fan of Lourdes, but, given that you have a fair likelihood of getting sick wherever you are, that would be a depressing manipulation of statistics to dupe the gullible couch potato.

If the statistics referred to the likelihood of getting sick visiting Lourdes as opposed to not visiting, then that would be more relevant and interesting.

The latter is what Dawkins point was, you are more likely to become further sick at Lourdes from another sick person, than you are more likely to be cured of your current sickness.

It is a bit like the whole I was fine until I went to hospital anecdote, except with out the doctors and people trying to cure you.

There are also interesting statistics that say you are more likely to die in a car accident in Lourdes than be cured. Another I've heard is more people die traveling in a sick state to Lourdes than are cured.

Zombrex

panda100 wrote: »

Im a big fan of Dawkins but I think he's being a bit nonsensical here.

I went to Lourdes for years with the HCPT and I don't think anyone on that pilgrimage thought they were going to be cured.
What the Lourdes experience does provide is meeting people with similar illnesses to you from all corners of the world, being able to talk openly about your disability,bond with others who are suffering similarly to you.
While It may not cure people physically, it provides people with the realisation that they are not alone in what they are suffering,and this really helps, especially when you have a long term disability such as cerbal palsy.

That is great and all but you can do that anywhere. The claim of Lourdes is a supernatural one, and it was the nonsensical aspect of this that Dawkins was talking about.

panda100

Wicknight wrote: »

That is great and all but you can do that anywhere. The claim of Lourdes is a supernatural one, and it was the nonsensical aspect of this that Dawkins was talking about.

Not really,most people with long terms disabilitys are quite isolated from society. There isn't much of a network for them in Ireland. Unfortunately like many things in our society religion is providing something that should be provided by the state. Nice residential settings where those with long term disability' and chroni illnesses can have a bit of fun for a week or two.

I cant see much harm in Lourdes really. I think Dawkins should be frying bigger fish tbh. Once you go to Lourdes there really isn't much talk of a supernatural element,thats something I noticed anyways. The emphasis is much more on reflection during the day time and craic at night time. However, I appreciate that others experience are different to mine.

Zombrex

panda100 wrote: »

Not really,most people with long terms disabilitys are quite isolated from society. There isn't much of a network for them in Ireland. Unfortunately like many things in our society religion is providing something that should be provided by the state. Nice residential settings where those with long term disability' and chroni illnesses can have a bit of fun for a week or two.

I cant see much harm in Lourdes really. I think Dawkins should be frying bigger fish tbh. Once you go to Lourdes there really isn't much talk of a supernatural element,thats something I noticed anyways. The emphasis is much more on reflection during the day time and craic at night time. However, I appreciate that others experience are different to mine.

I think you missed my point.

Ask yourself why Lourdes specifically over any other village in France or even the rest of the world?

branie

Panda, I've been to Lourdes twice with HCPT - first time was in 93, and the second time was three years ago with Jet Set. What groups did you go with?

panda100

branie wrote: »

Panda, I've been to Lourdes twice with HCPT - first time was in 93, and the second time was three years ago with Jet Set. What groups did you go with?

Cool I went with the HCPT in London when I was 18 and 19. Ten years ago now,but I really enjoyed it.
I've gone back three times since,once when I was still Catholic and twice as an atheist. Theres somethin about the place I love,very easy to meet people and you feel lots better by the end of the holiday!
Oh and its only two hours by train to Biarritz :pac: