Report on attitudes to travellers published.

rovert

ejmaztec wrote: »

Whoops

I think the reason above isnt a reason for trouble and ill-feeling as traveller enrolement into education should be a priority.

humanji

rovert wrote: »

Whoops

I think the reason above isnt a reason for trouble and ill-feeling as traveller enrolement into education should be a priority.

Should they not be treated equally to all other children? That's not really setting a good example for them.

rovert

humanji wrote: »

Should they not be treated equally to all other children? That's not really setting a good example for them.

Who is saying anything about equality?

Who is more likely not to return to education a settled child or traveller child after being removed from the system for any amount of time? Education will set the tone for the rest of their lives.

Nodin

Nodin wrote: »

We really have to replace the CSO with somebodys ass - you can pull any oul figure out of it to suit ye, and it would be a fraction of the cost to run.

Well, Who do you think runs the illegal drug trade in Ireland( apart from Dublin, Cork and Limerick)?

humanji

rovert wrote: »

Who is saying anything about equality?

Who is more likely not to return to education a settled child or traveller child after being removed from the system for any amount of time? Education will set the tone for the rest of their lives.

That applies to settled children too. If there's space for a child in a class, then any child should be allowed to take it. It's positive descrimination.

ejmaztec

humanji wrote: »

Should they not be treated equally to all other children? That's not really setting a good example for them.

Absolutely, equality all round and no messing.

Cookie_Monster

starbelgrade wrote: »

He should be a judge. He's already a jury & excecutioner, so it'd make sense.

I should be, no need for the jury then, straight to the executioner!

I don't have much respect for a tradition that treats women as second class citizens. I don't see why we have people giving out about women wearing a hajib and not about the way traveller women are treated.

Cookie_Monster

rovert wrote: »

Quite the obession with suspended sentence there.

huh?
how'd you figure that?

Dyr

Deleted User wrote: »

Well, Who do you think runs the illegal drug trade in Ireland( apart from Dublin, Cork and Limerick)?

The CSO? :eek: The bastards!

mullingar

I have no problem with travellers, Im sure 99% of people have no problem too.


You know the type, the typical traveller that Pavee Point tell us that they all are:

not into crime
not into scamming (people & the state)
not into sh1te tarmacking
not into fighting @ every opportunity
not into drinking themselves stupid

and,

into mutual respect for non-travellers
into human rights (for their kids)
into personal hygiene

caseyann

Some i like some i don't,the ones i dont know cant say anything about them.
I think it is still a high figure,1 in 5 people :eek: They didnt ask me or anyone i know or around my area.
It should be 1 in every 10.

AudreyHepburn

I can't say I've ever had any trouble from travellers myself. I remember when I was little and my Mam and I lived with my Gran for a bit there was a lovely traveller woman who called around regularly for a cuppa and chat, we'll call her Mary.

'Mary' used to sit in the porch chatting away to my gran, sking after the family, chatting about her own. She never caused one bit of trouble. her kids could be messers but most children are to be fair.

You cannot tar all of them with the same brush. Sure some of them may spoil for fights, some are dirty, some steal. But not ALL.

I hate how people in this country always assume if one person in a group is dirty all of them are.

Greyfox

I wouldn't have a problem with them if more of them actually bothered to clean up the horrible mess they leave when they move on...actually I've never experienced travelers cleaning up befor they leave!

aDeener

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

I can't say I've ever had any trouble from travellers myself. I remember when I was little and my Mam and I lived with my Gran for a bit there was a lovely traveller woman who called around regularly for a cuppa and chat, we'll call her Mary.

'Mary' used to sit in the porch chatting away to my gran, sking after the family, chatting about her own. She never caused one bit of trouble. her kids could be messers but most children are to be fair.

You cannot tar all of them with the same brush. Sure some of them may spoil for fights, some are dirty, some steal. But not ALL.

I hate how people in this country always assume if one person in a group is dirty all of them are.

i dont think anyone is saying they ALL are criminals and scammers, just the majority of them. in fairness though the older generation of tinkers i think are fairly decent minding their own business but after that well...

Dyr

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

You cannot tar all of them with the same brush.

You're absolutely right, we'd need some sort of mobile mass tarring device

lynski

these results sound about right to me. I think the attitudes have moved on. where there was blind discrimination in a previous generation, the present generation does not discriminate on the basis that they are travelers, rather they are judged on their actions and attitudes.
Re citizenship - i think this is one of those old debates - citizenship is a right and a responsibility. if you dont take the responsibilities should you get the right?
I have experience of travelers - i grew up in rathkeale a town with 60:40 s:t population at quiet times and it could 20:80 at christmas or other times.
This is my experience of travelers: Every community event was in some way affected negatively by their behavior from church activities such as communions, to youth discos, to social nights. I can say that 80 to 90 % of the travelers i have spoken to are in some way involved in illegal activities from working while claiming dole, motor tax defaulting or insurance scams, to stealing, to illegal trade in cigarettes and drugs. They do not want their children educated because it ruins them for their way of life, they do not want the girls educated because they will not marry and accept their place as baby makers and home makers.
They are lovely people to talk to, never had a problem with violence or anything else, because they were clever enough to not 'dirty on their own doorstep', but they never shied away from admitting their activities when on the road.
They want very little to do with 'country people' beyond making money from us.
mod you may ban me if you wish, but i am just speaking of my experience growing up in a town where there was large traveler population. I cant speak about the settled travelers around the country, as there was very little difference between settled and travelling travelers that i could see.

toiletduck

Hank_Jones wrote: »

Can't post my true feelings regarding travellers for fear of banning.

Let's just say I don't like them.

This ^^^. Having grown up living near settled and ehh unsettled travellers and having had many many dealings with them over the years while working in various pubs/hotels, I have my opinions formed. Would I live near a family of them, absolutely not. I want nothing to do with them ever again.

In my life, I've only ever encountered one traveller whom I would have called a friend. He played on our u-14's gaelic team and after initial hesitation, we got all on well as he did with the rest of the lads. His family pulled him off the team though and I hear he dropped out of school. See his name fairly often in the papers now for all the wrong reasons. I feel pretty sad for him, he had no chance growing up in that culture.

I will say that people wanting to deny them citizenship and the likes is madness.

weiland79

I have a pretty bizarre history with travellers, that i suppose most cannot claim to have had.

I went to live in Munich for a summer a few years ago. We used to do any kind of work we could get. from working in bars to working with the local council on the Autobahn.

Anywho, one night we were sitting in our local pub and we got chatting to some randomer, turns out he was a traveller from Doncaster in England. He says to us that they are doing a bit of work in the area and if we needed a job. Being broke at the time we arranged to meet him the next morning at the bahnhof for a day's work.

The next morning myself two English lads and a yank meet up with this guy and off we go. We were driving along in his brand spanking new Landrover when he pulls over into a truckstop resteraunt.
He drops us off and say's order what ever we want and that he will be back in a couple of hours.

About 3 hours later he arrives back pays our bill (not insubstantial) and off we go again. Up Up Up into the Bavarian alps to a farm where we spend the next 3 hours tarring a courtyard. ( with the bare minimum of tar i might add) All good, day is finished he brings us back to Munich and we meet him the next day for the same program.

This continues on for about two weeks with no problems.
One thing i should point out is. On a couple of the day's he would drop us off at the truckstop and not come back for nearly 8 hours all the while we would be sitting there eating and drinking. So he would come back and say no work today lads, settle our bill AND give us our full days wage on top.

Anyway this all continues until the local authorities cop on to what they are up too and essentially run them out of Germany.......Into Austria!
And did we go with them? Of course we did.

Great craic altogether.... they rented a caravan for us from a local camping site for the 3 weeks we were in Austria. Paid us if we worked paid us if we didn't. And kept us in food and beer.

It was like a game of cat and mouse with the local cops, we would be in the middle of a job and one of them one fly up us shouting " git in the back of the ****in truck " we would then down tools and leg it.:D

We were always putting our foot in it.
One day driving along with the head traveller and my friend asks me for a light. He then puts my lighter in his pocket to which i shout

"Give me back my lighter,you thieving gypsy bastard" Ouch...

Another time one of the Trav's said to us that their wimmin would all be arriving down on the site the next day, and it would be best if we didn't even look at them.
To which one of the English lads lets out a big snort of a laugh followed by "Sure what would we want to look at your wimmin for"

Not sure how we didn't end up in a shallow grave up in the German alps after some of our slip ups.

All in all a pretty good experience,although not one i would be too keen on repeating (shoveling tar is a right Cnut).

CreepingDeath

As a kid I was coming back from the shops and 2 travellers robbed me.

Another time they tried to rob my runners.

I worked in a pub where the manager wouldn't serve travellers.
They grabbed glasses and smashed a load of bottles behind the bar.

More recently, a traveller vented his road rage at me, slamming on his brakes in front of me, then going behind and undertaking me in the bus lane while throwing something at my car. He got out and threatened me at the traffic lights too, grabbed my glasses and said he was going to follow me home. I drove straight to the guards.

So my impression of travellers is far from understanding.
They're a deeply dysfunctional culture and I don't see any viable solution for it.

easyeason3

Is it true that there are members of the Travellers in the guards or did I just dream that one up?

CreepingDeath

easyeason3 wrote: »

Is it true that there are members of the Travellers in the guards or did I just dream that one up?

Maybe they drive the vans.

Aglomerado

Bambi wrote: »

The CSO? :eek: The bastards!

Boo! I've worked there, I wasn't even stoned once!

weiland79

weiland79 wrote: »

I have a pretty bizarre history with travellers, that i suppose most cannot claim to have had.

I went to live in Munich for a summer a few years ago. We used to do any kind of work we could get. from working in bars to working with the local council on the Autobahn.

Anywho, one night we were sitting in our local pub and we got chatting to some randomer, turns out he was a traveller from Doncaster in England. He says to us that they are doing a bit of work in the area and if we needed a job. Being broke at the time we arranged to meet him the next morning at the bahnhof for a day's work.

The next morning myself two English lads and a yank meet up with this guy and off we go. We were driving along in his brand spanking new Landrover when he pulls over into a truckstop resteraunt.
He drops us off and say's order what ever we want and that he will be back in a couple of hours.

About 3 hours later he arrives back pays our bill (not insubstantial) and off we go again. Up Up Up into the Bavarian alps to a farm where we spend the next 3 hours tarring a courtyard. ( with the bare minimum of tar i might add) All good, day is finished he brings us back to Munich and we meet him the next day for the same program.

This continues on for about two weeks with no problems.
One thing i should point out is. On a couple of the day's he would drop us off at the truckstop and not come back for nearly 8 hours all the while we would be sitting there eating and drinking. So he would come back and say no work today lads, settle our bill AND give us our full days wage on top.

Anyway this all continues until the local authorities cop on to what they are up too and essentially run them out of Germany.......Into Austria!
And did we go with them? Of course we did.

Great craic altogether.... they rented a caravan for us from a local camping site for the 3 weeks we were in Austria. Paid us if we worked paid us if we didn't. And kept us in food and beer.

It was like a game of cat and mouse with the local cops, we would be in the middle of a job and one of them one fly up us shouting " git in the back of the ****in truck " we would then down tools and leg it.:D

We were always putting our foot in it.
One day driving along with the head traveller and my friend asks me for a light. He then puts my lighter in his pocket to which i shout

"Give me back my lighter,you thieving gypsy bastard" Ouch...

Another time one of the Trav's said to us that their wimmin would all be arriving down on the site the next day, and it would be best if we didn't even look at them.
To which one of the English lads lets out a big snort of a laugh followed by "Sure what would we want to look at your wimmin for"

Not sure how we didn't end up in a shallow grave up in the German alps after some of our slip ups.

All in all a pretty good experience,although not one i would be too keen on repeating (shoveling tar is a right Cnut).

So basically you went around ripping people off with the travellers?

Nodin

Deleted User wrote: »

Well, Who do you think runs the illegal drug trade in Ireland( apart from Dublin, Cork and Limerick)?

In trying to relate that to the chain of comments as they occurred, the answer could be

1. The CSO
2. Somebodys Arse
3. Travellers
4. Feckers in tracksuits (thats thinking outside the box)

....none of which would justify your 'wild and wooly' percentage, as quoted earlier.

Nodin

Bambi wrote: »

You're absolutely right, we'd need some sort of mobile mass tarring device

Plus, when 'Real Laws' that represent 'de peepil' get passed, all you have to do is add feathers to create a mobile court.

Nodin

CreepingDeath wrote: »

As a kid I was coming back from the shops and 2 travellers robbed me.

Another time they tried to rob my runners.

I worked in a pub where the manager wouldn't serve travellers.
They grabbed glasses and smashed a load of bottles behind the bar.

More recently, a traveller vented his road rage at me, slamming on his brakes in front of me, then going behind and undertaking me in the bus lane while throwing something at my car. He got out and threatened me at the traffic lights too, grabbed my glasses and said he was going to follow me home. I drove straight to the guards.

I'd say it was the Hitler t-shirt with the burning caravan on it that started him off....

Overheal

Deleted User wrote: »

How else would you have a Range Rover while living on the dole?

By purchasing wrecked vehicles and refurbishing them for a fraction of the cost.

Ownership of a Range Rover is not evidence of crime.

aDeener

CreepingDeath wrote: »

As a kid I was coming back from the shops and 2 travellers robbed me.

:eek: where did they take you?

super_furry

My issue is that every single interaction I've had with a traveller has been a negative one. Now I don't go looking to befriend them, or go for a pint with them but the fact remains that when I have had dealings with travellers, they've been threatening, aggressive and on one occasion stole from me.

I can only judge on my experiences and on that basis I'd be more than wary of any traveller I came across, which may make me prejudiced but I have no problem with that.

Poor Uncle Tom

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

....You cannot tar all of them with the same brush.....

/so we shouldn't generalise....

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

...I hate how people in this country always assume.....

/but, it's ok for you....

:rolleyes:

amacachi

Overheal wrote: »

By purchasing wrecked vehicles and refurbishing them for a fraction of the cost.

LOL, rarely.

I don't really give a ****e about travellers, there's plenty of them not very far back in my family and one of my cousins married a settled one whose parents weren't spastics and he did well in life. What does annoy me is some of their obsession with claiming they're somehow different from the rest of us and should but treated as such. Any negative feeling I have towards some of them is from my experience with them or their deeds, same as any negative feelings I towards most people.

Overheal

Overheal wrote: »

By purchasing wrecked vehicles and refurbishing them for a fraction of the cost.

Ownership of a Range Rover is not evidence of crime.

A 10 Range Rover while have a council house with a caravan parked out the back.

Nodin

Nodin wrote: »

In trying to relate that to the chain of comments as they occurred, the answer could be

1. The CSO
2. Somebodys Arse
3. Travellers
4. Feckers in tracksuits (thats thinking outside the box)

....none of which would justify your 'wild and wooly' percentage, as quoted earlier.

Out of curiosity. Do you buy fair trade chocolate and were against the Tara bypass?

Tiny Explosions

[QUOTE=

Overheal

;66818683]By purchasing wrecked vehicles and refurbishing them for a fraction of the cost.

Ownership of a Range Rover is not evidence of crime.[/QUOTE]


Yea all travelers are master mechanics!:pac:

weiland79

Rojomcdojo wrote: »

So basically you went around ripping people off with the travellers?

Don't be such a plank.

Nodin

Deleted User wrote: »

Out of curiosity. Do you buy fair trade chocolate and were against the Tara bypass?

Does the right answer to this magically justify your magic percentage production facility?

Overheal

Deleted User wrote: »

A 10 Range Rover while have a council house with a caravan parked out the back.

are you citing an actual example or just talking shyte.

And do you know if they are on the dole or they're just rich people living poor.

Overheal

Overheal wrote: »

are you citing an actual example or just talking shyte.

And do you know if they are on the dole or they're just rich people living poor.

I have seen them with the jeep in the local halting site. Jeez, some people.:rolleyes:

Nodin

Nodin wrote: »

Does the right answer to this magically justify your magic percentage production facility?

Nope, just curious as to why you are defending them so much?

I'll reiterate the statement. 90% of the travellers I know of are involved in crime.

storm2811

90% of travellers I know are sound.

easyeason3

Deleted User wrote: »

Nope, just curious as to why you are defending them so much?

I'll reiterate the statement. 90% of the travellers I know of are involved in crime.

90%?
Jaysus any of them I know are all into crime in some form or another.

Frontline did a programme on it a few weeks ago & listening to that it seems they all lead crime free lives & don't fit the usual Traveller stereotype.

Can't say I've ever come across any of them that were law abiding.

The Express

Any experience I've had with travellers has resulted in theft or attack.

Still, I live in hope.

On the other hand, a friend hooked up with a really hot one in a nightclub in London one night.

She was wearing a cowboy hat and denim hotpants and he ended up spending the night with her back in his gaf.

Ended up riding him like a stolen bicycle.

He loves the travellers!

Nodin

Deleted User wrote: »

Nope, just curious as to why you are defending them so much?

Because I don't like generalisations and the lynch mob mentality. While some of them are no angels, the amount of venom aimed against them is fucking appalling.

Deleted User wrote: »

I'll reiterate the statement. 90% of the travellers I know of are involved in crime.

Funny choice of words.

re·it·er·ate (r - t -r t ). tr.v. re·it·er·at·ed, re·it·er·at·ing, re·it·er·ates. To say or do again or repeatedly

you stated originally

90% of them are involved in crime.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=66808980&postcount=15
..thus you've gone from unsustainable generalisation to unsupportable anecdote.

Dyr

Nodin wrote: »

Plus, when 'Real Laws' that represent 'de peepil' get passed, all you have to do is add feathers to create a mobile court.

We can also hire it back out to entrepreneurs in the travelling community for use in their legitimate drive tarmacing business. Everyone's a winner. :pac:

up for anything

Offy wrote: »

Never buy tarmac off them, or donkeys!

Dave! wrote: »

A donkey selling tarmac?! Those are some mighty entrepreneurial donkeys you do be seein! :eek:

The Donkeys Den!




I haven't read any further in the thread because I know I'll just get sucked in and it's pointless.

Nodin

Nodin wrote: »

Because I don't like generalisations and the lynch mob mentality. While some of them are no angels, the amount of venom aimed against them is fucking appalling.



Funny choice of words.


you stated originally

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=66808980&postcount=15
..thus you've gone from unsustainable generalisation to unsupportable anecdote.

I was incorrect in my original posting. I work in the pub industry and have seen the intimidation that travellers put out towards people. I genuinely believe that it is travellers that have a problem with settled people rather than the other way around. They have a chip on their shoulder and travel around in large packs. When you politely refuse them service in the bar, they become abusive and threatening. This has literally happened everytime I have had to refused them drink. On one occasion, they also threw a pint glass at my face from three foot away. Luckily I was able to duck in time.

They have no manners. They have no education(Probably the thing I least respect them for). Given all the incentives the government gives them to further their education.

Funny that you speak of lynch mobs. Any situations where I have refused service, I have been the one been verbally abused and threatened.

Overheal

Deleted User wrote: »

I have seen them with the jeep in the local halting site. Jeez, some people.:rolleyes:

90% of them?

A Range Rover is not a Jeep. Its a Range Rover. Or an SUV.

Nodin

Deleted User wrote: »

When you politely refuse them service in the bar, they become abusive and threatening. This has literally happened everytime I have had to refused them drink.

.....no, no way that could be down to you.

You refuse them often.....?

hip_priest

rovert wrote: »

So anyway back to piling on a easy target.

What made them an easy target, besides themselves that is? Maybe it's up to the rest of us to do that for them while we're doing everything else perhaps?

I don't hate them, I just never had a good experience with them...like them b*st*rd dentists...GGgrrrhhh!