Report on attitudes to travellers published.

genericguy

Nodin wrote: »

It appears you've a large number of pre-conceived notions with regards to travellers. I'd say they just have to appear, rather than "appear to threaten or intimidate" to be refused service by you.

yeah yeah yeah, if the man had said that he refused a gang of tracksuit warriors and they threw a glass at him, you'd be saying they had no right to act like that, call the cops, lock 'em up...

but no, travellers attack somebody, and the bleeding hearts look for excuses to absolve them of blame.

Nodin

Nijmegen wrote: »

I think 1 person has advocated some sort of crazy nutjob final solution.

...and others have just compared them to animals and made other massive generalisations....

genericguy

Nodin wrote: »

...and others have just compared them to animals and made other massive generalisations....

having read a large number of your posts here which have attempted to defend the indefensible, i have developed a preconceived notion of the type of domicile in which you reside.

Nodin

genericguy wrote: »

having read a large number of your posts here which have attempted to defend the indefensible, i have developed a preconceived notion of the type of domicile in which you reside.

Yeah. Over the years I've been told I'm Jewish, muslim, catholic, protestant, Lebanese Australian, Australian aboriginal, Arab, gay, an anti-semite, a holocaust denier and female. For further comedy gold some times two of the above have occurred simultaneously on the same board, albeit on different threads.

O, and imagine my gaff with a big library with decent shelves. I always wanted something like that.

Nijmegen

Well Nodin, I'd like them to simply obey the law and pay taxes the same as you and I.

Nodin

I'd like the ones who break the law to stop doing what they do as well.

fonecrusher1

Lets face it folks, if you owned your own home & found out travellers were being moved in nextdoor you would hit the feckin roof with worry.

It would be a life changing event. But not in a good way.

Oh & this talk of recognising travellers as a race....biggest load of oul rubbish ive ever heard.:rolleyes:

Seperate race my hole. Christ they'd love that.

AudreyHepburn

fonecrusher1 wrote: »

Lets face it folks, if you owned your own home & found out travellers were being moved in nextdoor you would hit the feckin roof with worry.

It would be a life changing event. But not in a good way.

Oh come on now! Life changing event? Over exaggerating much?

I can think of far worrying things that could happen like say death in the family, financial ruin, a relative being jailed, a relative becoming seriously ill etc.

These are life changing events. But a traveller moving in next door? A bit of a nusciance maybe if they're bad sorts but life changing.....get a grip :rolleyes:

aDeener

i'd like to know whether anyone here disagrees that the level of crime is far higher in travelling communities than in settled ones?

javaboy

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

Oh come on now! Life changing event? Over exaggerating much?

I can think of far worrying things that could happen like say death in the family, financial ruin, a relative being jailed, a relative becoming seriously ill etc.

These are life changing events. But a traveller moving in next door? A bit of a nusciance maybe if they're bad sorts but life changing.....get a grip :rolleyes:

I know of two families whose lives were pretty much shattered by bad neighbours moving in. One had just started a business from home and clients would no longer come out because of the environment.

In neither case were the neighbours travellers but you've obviously no idea just how much of an effect on your life truly bad neighbours can have.

aDeener

Nodin wrote: »

Yep, "tip toe"
http://www.rte.ie/news/2002/0902/travellers.html
http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/0703/ballina.html
http://www.independent.ie/national-news/travellers-awarded-4500--in-pub-discrimination-case-296216.html
http://books.google.ie/books?id=dJZYlGONiYMC&pg=PA60&lpg=PA60&dq=traveller+awarded+discrimination&source=bl&ots=nkxrL7kTdf&sig=UbbheIFDbXfVtmKxgWz57ufEmqw&hl=en&ei=-042TP6qL5TNjAfcz_XnAw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=7&ved=0CCgQ6AEwBg#v=onepage&q=traveller%20awarded%20discrimination&f=false

did you watch the frontline? people were afraid to come on to voice their true feelings on them. i wonder why that was....

AudreyHepburn

javaboy wrote: »

I know of two families whose lives were pretty much shattered by bad neighbours moving in. One had just started a business from home and clients would no longer come out because of the environment.

In neither case were the neighbours travellers but you've obviously no idea just how much of an effect on your life truly bad neighbours can have.

Ok but still the fact that your neighbour is a traveller does not mean you are in for trouble. In fact any time I've heard of bad neighbours they're settled people, like the ones you yourself have mentioned.

There more worrying things in life than having a traveller move in next dorr imo.

javaboy

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

Ok but still the fact that your neighbour is a traveller does not mean you are in for trouble. In fact any time I've heard of bad neighbours they're settled people, like the ones you yourself have mentioned.

There more worrying things in life than having a traveller move in next dorr imo.

Of course there are worse things. Don't think anyone would argue otherwise. It can still be life changing.
As for most bad neighbours being settled, I should hope so. The vast majority of new neighbours will be settled anyway. So it follows that most bad neighbours will be settled too. What would be useful to know is the percentages of bad neighbours among each group. Only then can you make a valid comparison.

genericguy

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

There more worrying things in life than having a traveller move in next dorr imo.

yeah, like aids. but which is more likely to happen?

and the reason you hear about people having bad neighbours who are settled people (lets call them 'normal') as opposed to travellers is because there are more settled people than travellers living in houses. i guarantee you that percentage of settled people who are bad neighbours out of the total of settled people is much much much lower than the proportion of travellers who are bad neighbours.

and personally, if i were to see a house i wanted to buy, with travellers living next door, i wouldn't even phone the house, let alone buy it.

*i'm slow at typing, but yeah, what javaboy said.

fonecrusher1

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

But a traveller moving in next door? A bit of a nusciance maybe if they're bad sorts but life changing.....get a grip :rolleyes:

Nah thats bullsh!t. Im hearing lots of accounts of people's lives being turned upside down because travellers have been moved into their neighborhood. Are they all lying?

oldyouth

Traveller Children endure a higher mortality rate. If I kept my children in damp, cold unsanitary conditions, they would be taken in to care.

There is a higher capitation grant given to schools for traveller children than settled children. The local school principal got out in his car to canvass travellers from mile around to enrol in his school because he could become what is known a a walking principal (didn't have to teach) if he got a sufficient quota.

If travellers are 'Traders' why are they not registered for VAT or making tax returns. More importantly, how are they allowed to drive up to the dole office in 4x4s with signage advertising tarmac contracting.

If I kept my kids out of school to go on a road trip, the truant officer would haul me to court.

Why is there a fast track housing scheme for travellers where instant funds are available should they wish to be housed.

How come travellers are allowed to sue for discrimination for not being treated like the settled community while in the same breath trying to establish that they are entitled to be considered different to the settled community

I could go on but I'm getting angrier by the minute

Naomh

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

Oh come on now! Life changing event? Over exaggerating much?

I can think of far worrying things that could happen like say death in the family, financial ruin, a relative being jailed, a relative becoming seriously ill etc.

These are life changing events. But a traveller moving in next door? A bit of a nusciance maybe if they're bad sorts but life changing.....get a grip :rolleyes:

Are you for real?

biko

Naomh wrote: »

Are you for real?

Are you joking?

AudreyHepburn

Naomh wrote: »

Are you for real?

Yes why?

I just think there are far worse things than having a traveller living next door that's all.

easyeason3

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

Yes why?

I just think there are far worse things than having a traveller living next door that's all.

Like?

Elevator

I tolerate them until the cross the line, have had my fair few run ins with the travelling community down thru the years which turned a corner 2 years ago when I finally snapped and fought back against a few of them on a local bus hassling an African lady,

was a hero that day when they all left the bus and none of them have even looked twice at me since

Naomh

biko wrote: »

Are you joking?

Absolutely not, having known a few young coulpes with young kids who bought houses in estates where the houses that werent sold were purchased by the local authority to house travellers and seen the ensuing mayhem for myself. I was quite serious.
I found ahs quote to be a bit off the cuff without actually thinking about what could happen in that situation or...... that she wasnt serious

javaboy

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

Yes why?

I just think there are far worse things than having a traveller living next door that's all.

Not being as bad as cancer isn't exactly a shining endorsement.

AudreyHepburn

easyeason3 wrote: »

Like?

Like having a child molester/murderer/rapist/drug baron living next door for instance.

Or having a family member get sick or die.

Or losing your home.

Or getting in trouble with the law.

Or about a million other things I could mention.

And for the record I am aware of what could happen if the travellers were a bad lot but NOT ALL of them are.

fonecrusher1

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

Like having a child molester/murderer/rapist/drug baron living next door for instance.

Or having a family member get sick or die.

Or losing your home.

Or getting in trouble with the law.

Or about a million other things I could mention.

So what your saying is travellers aren't as bad as this list of completely off-topic situations/ criminals, so they're not a bad bunch really?

Thats like seeing someone break their neck in an accident & saying to them "sure at least you don't have terminal cancer".

Its meaningless.

easyeason3

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

Like having a child molester/murderer/rapist/drug baron living next door for instance.

Or having a family member get sick or die.

Or losing your home.

Or getting in trouble with the law.

Or about a million other things I could mention.

And for the record I am aware of what could happen if the travellers were a bad lot but NOT ALL of them are.

And I would have a huge problem if a child molester/ murderer/ rapist/ drug baron was living beside me too. I would feel the exact same about the above as I would about Travellers moving in. I don't like to discriminate in that regard.
But if I'm working my arse off paying for a house I bought then yeah you can be damn sure I'll have a massive problem if someone moved in that posed a threat to me or my home.

AudreyHepburn

fonecrusher1 wrote: »

So what your saying is travellers aren't as bad as this list of completely off-topic situations/ criminals, so they're not a bad bunch really?

Thats like seeing someone break their neck in an accident & saying to them "sure at least you don't have terminal cancer".

Its meaningless.

No. What I'm basically saying is that if it were me it wouldn't bother me to have a traveller living next door and unless there was reason to be worried I wouldn't go kicking up a fuss about it.

To me there are more important things to worry about.

The_Minister

I think we can all be proud that a thread on attitudes towards travellers has outlasted a thread on Stephen Gately, and has done so with considerably more restraint.

The Waltzing Consumer

The_Minister wrote: »

I think we can all be proud that a thread on attitudes towards travellers has outlasted a thread on Stephen Gately, and has done so with considerably more restraint.

Dead people can't sue

Mike 1972

Why would anyone be bothered that much about travellers living net door to them when if they are what their name suggests they arent going to be around for very long.

TomTom wrote: »

99% give the rest a bad name.

Eh

Deleted User wrote: »

Well, Who do you think runs the illegal drug trade

Given that this is AH should the statement above be regarded as defamatory or complimentary :pac:

fonecrusher1

This is my 2 cents.

I am not someone who likes to join the mob, grab a pitchfork & have a go at minorities. Thats not what im about. Im sure us irish have been at the recieving end of such intolerance in other countries in the past.

But, I find it harder & harder to ignore (as i usually do) the PC brigade trying to make out that travellers are demonised & that its only a small percentage of them who are trouble makers. Im also sick of hearing oh its not their fault, its their culture. That is bullsh!t, all cultures must conform somewhat to common law & what is & is not acceptable public conduct or else they will become justifiably hated. Simple fact.

As someone else has said, if they can't be policed, they need to do the job themselves & enforce some sort of internal control of the rampant thuggery that prevails in their community.

Everyone deserves a chance but how many chances can be afforded to them?

pablomakaveli

fonecrusher1 wrote: »

As someone else has said, if they can't be policed, they need to do the job themselves & enforce some sort of internal control of the rampant thuggery that prevails in their community.

I fully agree with this but unfortunately when any criticism is directed at travellers the likes of Pavee point start crying racism instead of acknowledging that there's a problem and trying to address that problem.

ananas

I've had to deal with them many times over the years at work and on the whole my experience has been 90% negative. I've been roared abuse at, called thick, stupid, I've been threatened by a traveller because I "gave a dirty look" to her runt of a brother. I've also had stuff thrown at me. They have always tried to pull the wool over our eyes and get stuff for free by complaining and shouting "I know my rights!" And if you even dare to tell them to get out its "discrimination".

Their whole philosophy is to yell and cause havoc and then people will cave and give them what they want.

Would somebody pass on a message to travellers to have regular showers?

Mike 1972

Mike 1972 wrote: »

Why would anyone be bothered that much about travellers living net door to them when if they are what their name suggests they arent going to be around for very long.


Eh



Given that this is AH should the statement above be regarded as defamatory or complimentary :pac:

It's a question.

Paparazzo

To be honest, if travellers moved in next door there's no way I'd ge against it before they moved in, or would I judge them till they were there a while. I expect no medal for this, it's just the normal thing I'd do. I had a few people move in beside me in my old neighbourhood that people would consider "undesirable" and they were the soundest people ever!

However, one question for the "travellers are victimised" brigade. If you were getting your driveway paved, would you get a proper builder to do it, or would you be happy to let a group of travellers do it?

billy the squid

Paparazzo wrote: »

To be honest, if travellers moved in next door there's no way I'd ge against it before they moved in, or would I judge them till they were there a while. I expect no medal for this, it's just the normal thing I'd do. I had a few people move in beside me in my old neighbourhood that people would consider "undesirable" and they were the soundest people ever!

However, one question for the "travellers are victimised" brigade. If you were getting your driveway paved, would you get a proper builder to do it, or would you be happy to let a group of travellers do it?

For work like that I would look for certification to do such work before enquiring after their ethnic background.

what is your point?

Overheal

Deleted User wrote: »

Who has circa 100000 euros hanging around in cash and is legitimate?

Closer to €50,000 surely. For that matter are you even sure it didn't have dealer plates?

http://www.kbb.com/new-cars/land-rover/range-rover/2010/pricing-report

this still doesnt deflect from the assertion that one man's range rover is criminal evidence against 90% of Travellers.

billy the squid

billy the squid wrote: »

For work like that I would look for certification to do such work before enquiring after their ethnic background.

what is your point?

Since when are travellers an "ethnic background"?

Overheal

bluewolf wrote: »

Since when are travellers an "ethnic background"?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_group

An ethnic group is a group of people whose members identify with each other, through a common heritage that is real or assumed.[1][2] This shared heritage may be based upon putative common ancestry, history, Culture, Traditions, kinship, religion, language, shared territory, nationality or/and physical appearance. Members of an ethnic group are conscious of belonging to an ethnic group; moreover ethnic identity is further marked by the recognition from others of a group's distinctiveness.[3][4]


So yes, Travellers would be an Ethnic Group.

Overheal

Overheal wrote: »

So yes, Travellers would be an Ethnic Group.

Fair enough I thought we were heading into this "race" discussion again ;s

Paparazzo

billy the squid wrote: »

For work like that I would look for certification to do such work before enquiring after their ethnic background.

what is your point?

Isn't it obvious? They do terrible building work.

billy the squid

bluewolf wrote: »

Fair enough I thought we were heading into this "race" discussion again ;s

Race is a social construct. ethnicity is somewhat different.

billy the squid

Paparazzo wrote: »

Isn't it obvious? They do terrible building work.

Who does terrible building work?
contractors who do not have certification?

If you hired builders who did not have certification then I have no sympathy for you.

dvpower

fonecrusher1 wrote: »

But, I find it harder & harder to ignore (as i usually do) the PC brigade trying to make out that travellers are demonised & that its only a small percentage of them who are trouble makers. Im also sick of hearing oh its not their fault, its their culture. That is bullsh!t, all cultures must conform somewhat to common law & what is & is not acceptable public conduct or else they will become justifiably hated. Simple fact.

I've just scanned through the thread and I dont see these claims being made here. A few people have said that they've never had any personal difficulties with travellers and some people have taken issue with some of the ott abuse posted in the thread.

Personally, I find it quite easy to ignore stuff that doesn't exist.

Overheal

Overheal wrote: »

Closer to €50,000 surely. For that matter are you even sure it didn't have dealer plates?

http://www.kbb.com/new-cars/land-rover/range-rover/2010/pricing-report

this still doesnt deflect from the assertion that one man's range rover is criminal evidence against 90% of Travellers.

Why are you quoting American prices? The price on a range rover is totally different in Ireland than America.

Nodin

Nodin wrote: »

...and others have just compared them to animals and made other massive generalisations....

You are making a massive leap there.What animals did I compare them to?
Sure. humans are animals. You can even have a pack of cards.:)

high horse

Overheal wrote: »

Closer to €50,000 surely. For that matter are you even sure it didn't have dealer plates?

http://www.kbb.com/new-cars/land-rover/range-rover/2010/pricing-report

this still doesnt deflect from the assertion that one man's range rover is criminal evidence against 90% of Travellers.

Try again with your pricing

http://www.driving.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=201017197809786

Also, travellers are very unlikely to have dealer plates as nobody in their right mind would buy a car from them

Overheal

Overheal wrote: »

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_group

An ethnic group is a group of people whose members identify with each other, through a common heritage that is real or assumed.[1][2] This shared heritage may be based upon putative common ancestry, history, Culture, Traditions, kinship, religion, language, shared territory, nationality or/and physical appearance. Members of an ethnic group are conscious of belonging to an ethnic group; moreover ethnic identity is further marked by the recognition from others of a group's distinctiveness.[3][4]


So yes, Travellers would be an Ethnic Group.

It's true. They have a lot of common ancestry.

AckwelFoley

Overheal wrote: »

Closer to €50,000 surely. For that matter are you even sure it didn't have dealer plates?

http://www.kbb.com/new-cars/land-rover/range-rover/2010/pricing-report

this still doesnt deflect from the assertion that one man's range rover is criminal evidence against 90% of Travellers.

Nice arguement on TV.

Sadly in reality travellers have the highest % of their commnity in prison than any other.

It wasnt a roma, black or china man that robbed the generator out of the back of my van - it was a traveller..

It wasnt roma black or china that trawls the country side robbing builders vans and selling them in markets across the border or in other counties for tight arse "look the other way" bargin hunters to buy - they're travellers.

Its not the Roma, blacks or china man that smells because they dont wash or shave their pits... its the french :pac:





Jadore La france, vraiment